Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Growl & Howl Forum => Groans, Gripes, Brags & Boasts => : lins_saving_grace July 12, 2006, 07:02:41 AM
-
What really bothered me is they said they're calling an attorney
Lady and grace haven't done anything but bark at people (the same people who when i try to make the girls stop barking say "It's ok". what backstabbing little witches.)
I'm seriously thinking about putting the house up for sale.
-
They're so stupid!!!! The kid got attacked by a GR, not a rott! GRRRR!!!!
-
The note doesn't come thru clear on my computer - what does it say?
-
Once again, the ignorant general public is blaming the breed, not the owners; and the wrong breed to boot. This seems to be happening more and more in different places, the future is really frightening for big dog owners. I would get some other big dog owners involved in a group action, and hire our own lawyer to meet with theirs. Fight fire with fire.
Stella
-
Thanks Melissa - my "computerness" is less than stellar...lol
Okay now onto the note Lin... what is up with that?!
I am guessing this is part of the homeowner association... .uuuggghhhh!
Perhaps you should join the committee too... and educate those fools on the fact that the majority of dog bites are committed by small dogs.
gggrrrrrrrrrrr rr
-
Holly, I like the way you think! This is ridiculous. You could also get a letter from your vet saying that you don't own a GR and so this shouldn't apply to you...
I still can't read the thing...It doesn't do anything when I double click on it.
-
We just got this in the mail last night. I never go to these meetings since I have better things to do than worry about speed bumps and tall grass in the development... but it is a homeowners association, yes.
That Todd guy on the committee has a GR and that Mark guy has a big dog that barks at everyone so he understands. and no one has ever said anything to us about the girls. they've told Tony ... the association treasurer about their "fears" of the girls.
The only thing that bothers me is the whole county prosecutor thing.
it's STUPID! Like I've committed a crime for owning 2 Rotts.
-
Here's a link for better viewing!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/823960/Lin_dogs.jpg
-
Just to play the devil's advocate. I am thinking they will probably want a physical barrier, but don't know what kind of rules they have for fencing in your home owners association.
The barrier seems reasonable to me & would alleviate the fears some people might have. I know your girls are using an invisible fence, but in some areas, not sure on yours, they don't consider that enough.
-
the chain link fence was brought up. But that invisible fence is like a brick wall and these people know it. an the bylaws say something about invisible fences being prefered for austhetic reasons.
-
Lin I think that's just awful! Its quite sad and scary how often we're starting to see things like this. If you need a massive petition from BPO stating that your girls are well behaved and loveable, I'm sure we could get you a TON of signatures! Those idiots are going to have one heck of a fight on their hands if they try to pull anything.
We'll see how this plays out...but I may take you up on this! Thank you!
-
Why don't you invite the entire committee and anyone else in the neighborhood who is "afraid" of your two goofballs to come over to your house and meet them for themselves. Make sure you go to the next meeting to offer alternatives to breed and size banning, such as requiring ALL dog owners (large and small breeds) in the neighborhood association to have their dogs pass the Canine Good Citizen test or some licensed obedience class in order to be able to live in the neighborhood with their pets. That way, the other non-pet owners will feel more comfortable that these dogs have been "certified" as well-behaved and will have the assurance that their guardians are concerned about their good manners around people and other dogs.
-
the chain link fence was brought up. But that invisible fence is like a brick wall and these people know it.  an the bylaws say something about invisible fences being prefered for austhetic reasons.Â
is there a sign posted on your property stating there is an invisible fence.... like the signs posted by home security companies?
-
Why don't you invite the entire committee and anyone else in the neighborhood who is "afraid" of your two goofballs to come over to your house and meet them for themselves. Make sure you go to the next meeting to offer alternatives to breed and size banning, such as requiring ALL dog owners (large and small breeds) in the neighborhood association to have their dogs pass the Canine Good Citizen test or some licensed obedience class in order to be able to live in the neighborhood with their pets. That way, the other non-pet owners will feel more comfortable that these dogs have been "certified" as well-behaved and will have the assurance that their guardians are concerned about their good manners around people and other dogs.
I've given the neighborhood an invitation to meet them and some have taken me up on it.
Those are GREAT ideas!!! I'll have to go to the next meeting and pass them along. And the people complaining have dogs.
-
the chain link fence was brought up. But that invisible fence is like a brick wall and these people know it.  an the bylaws say something about invisible fences being prefered for austhetic reasons.Â
is there a sign posted on your property stating there is an invisible fence.... like the signs posted by home security companies?
Yes!! Right at the end of the driveway on the mail box post.
-
This is definately time to take action and get everyone introduced to the girls. I would also document everything adn retain my own attorney. I think they are looking at it as a preventive measure rather than a malicious stab. But you know them, I don't. I would also be furious over this and probably not handle it as well as you...
-
This is definately time to take action and get everyone introduced to the girls. I would also document everything adn retain my own attorney. I think they are looking at it as a preventive measure rather than a malicious stab. But you know them, I don't. I would also be furious over this and probably not handle it as well as you...
Oh I am furious! I'm red in the face and I'm about to cry. I don't have much to do with the neighbors since I'm not a people person (especially a neighborly people person).
-
Just make sure you maintain your composure. People will listen to you more if you are calm and collected and will tune you out if you let your emotions overtake you. Explain to them that you can understand their concerns because all we ever hear from the media is about dog attacks and rarely about good dogs. However, do your research and find stories on rottweilers that have done good things and have them available to enlighten people.
And, remember, this isn't a direct attack on you and your dogs. This letter went out to everyone in your neighborhood and was a direct result of bad pet management by the golden retriever owner. (and I am completely shocked that a Golden would cause such horrible damage to a child. I've never met a golden who was anything but gentle and sweet).
This is your chance to educate a large group of people. Sounds like you have a lot of dog owners in your neighborhood so I don't think it will too difficult. Let us know what we can do to help.
-
yeah girl, we got your back!
I am a google-maniac and LOVE to research in my down time at work. I will be happy to dig up statistics and examples of rotties-done-good if you need. Just give me the word.
-
Well I don't think I could add anything else to what has already been said. It is all great advise. I am sorry you have to be subjected to such rude and uneducated people.
-
let me clear my head and maybe I'll feel better later about this. :) :-\
-
a Golden would cause such horrible damage to a child. I've never met a golden who was anything but gentle and sweet).
A small point: we have no idea what the child was doing to the golden. Was it a provoked attack? In that case, the letter should go out to those with small children as well!!
-
a Golden would cause such horrible damage to a child. I've never met a golden who was anything but gentle and sweet).
A small point: we have no idea what the child was doing to the golden. Was it a provoked attack? In that case, the letter should go out to those with small children as well!!
Me either. I don't know what happened ... this is the first I've heard of a dog attack in Cedar Springs.
-
Here's a good story:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/rottweiler_dogs/34372/1
and another one:
http://www.gunnerdog.com/
and a good rottweiler rescue and anti breed restriction site specific to rottweilers
http://www.rottie46102.com/
-
And, remember, this isn't a direct attack on you and your dogs. This letter went out to everyone in your neighborhood and was a direct result of bad pet management by the golden retriever owner. (and I am completely shocked that a Golden would cause such horrible damage to a child. I've never met a golden who was anything but gentle and sweet).
Apparently this is happening with Goldens more and more now due to popularity and bad breeding practices. It's so sad because they are the most wonderful dogs, and all of a sudden now I've heard tons of stories about them biting and attacking.
Lin, I'm sorry that you're so upset. I've been there with Homeowner's Associations and big dog prejudice. Sadie is one of three large dogs in our neighborhood and she doesn't even get the brunt of it anymore. Our neighbor's GSD gets tons of complaints and it is by far the best behaved dog in the neighborhood. I would do as others have suggested. Find lots of stories about Rotts doing good things, rescue, police work, whatever you can find.
Also try not to get defensive, as hard as that is. That was my biggest mistake with my neighbor situation. Your dogs have done nothing wrong, there's no legal way that I know of for anyone to force you to do anything. They can't force you to get rid of your dogs or chain them up or anything like that because SOME Rottwielers have bitten people. The best thing you can do at this point is educate your neighbors about the breed and your dogs in particular. Things like this ALWAYS stem from fear and from ignorance. If you stay calm and show them there's nothing to be afraid of with your girls, everything will be ok. I'm sure of it. Should you HAVE to do that? No, absolutely not. It's not fair that you should have to defend your dogs because of something another dog (in this case it's not even the same breed, just roughly the same size!) did. But people start things like this up because they are scared and they don't know any better. If events like Goldens attacking people show us anything it is that you can NEVER judge a dog solely based on it's breed - good or bad.
If you need anything, let us know. I'd be more than happy to help you research or something. If nothing else, just take comfort in the fact that BPO's got your back girlfriend :)
-
I printed those articles...tha nk you!
-
I don't know if this would help, but once Boudreaux had all his puppy shots taken care of, we started walking the neighborhood in the morning and in the evening. Any kids or adults that are outside I say hello to and usually they will either come up and want to pet him (usually the kids) and the adults will almost always ask me about him. He is still such a spazzy puppy and gets a bit wiggly and hyper when a kid comes up, but I don't want them to be afraid of him once he gets HUGE. I agree with the educating the HOE and I would start attending the meetings so you know what is going on as well as being there to represent the big dog owners.
-
Lin, Let me know who I can call or write with some actual facts with actual basis.
I will be gone from this afternoon until late tomorrow evening as Randy's grandfather has passed away & we will be attending the funeral...Than k goodness my sister can stay here with my animals.
It's funny that just last night my sister & I were talking about dog breeds & BSL...I made mention that I never...not once...met a Rottie that wasn't an absolute sweetheart!...It is strange to me that they get such a bad rap.
Hearing about things like this seriously reminds me of colonial times & TheSalem Witch Trials...You'd think that we would have evolved in our rational since those days.
I am sorry you have this stress on you...Again, let me know if there is anything I can do. :)
-
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
People can be SO...I don't know because I can't come up with a strong enough word for STUPID that I can say here...
Rotties are such sweetie, UNLESS their owner is a moron. Most rotties I've seen just kind of lumber along and proceed to slobber all over you when you pet them.
While I think the CGC certification is a good idea on one hand, what if a dog can't pass it? They may be a perfectly good and sweet dog but just not be able to sit still and pass the CGC test. Does this mean they have to be rehomed or the owner have to move?
-
Oh Lins - so sorry this is happening to you. :'(
Everyone has come up with some really great suggestions! I know you had mentioned that you are not a "people-person", but I highly encourage you to attended any committee meetings you can. The reason for this....you are a VOTING member. You have a voice in whatever decisions are finally made, and there's no better time than right now for you to excerise that voice!
Keep your chin up, and let us know if there's anything we can do to help!
-
Sounds like the HOA is a pain to deal with.. Invisible fences are preferred, but we might be scared of your dogs behind an invisible fence.. Doh. You even have a sign, what else could they ask for.
I think even if they change the rules, they would have to include a grandfather clause for the current pet owners. Either way, it's not something you want to get in the mail & it is a serious PITA. Sorry you and the girls have to deal with this. I think a flaming bag of rottie poo on the porch of the offending members would be in order.. haha :)
-
I'm not sure what else they can ask for. I do everything to make sure people are "OK" with the girls. I walk them at night when no one is out...i go out with them so they don't bark...i'm terribly active with them.
Maybe I'm seeing to far into the future and drawing conclusions that aren't necessary yet. but I can see where this is going. :(
I'm going to the next meeting. God I hope I can keep my composure.
If the association wants to make changes to the rules that they have now about dogs (the only one in the by-laws is that each home can only have 2 dogs.) then they will have to pay a lawyer to amend the Master Deed (AGAIN!) and we'd be fined if we didn't meet those new rules. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but if the association asks a homeowner to leave the association can buy the home and the homeowners can move out. We aren't against that...that would save everyone a lot of time and agony, especially in this bad real estate market.
I think I may have to suck it up and talk to some of the neighbors and ask if there are any problems with Lady and Grace specifically.
-
I'm not sure what else they can ask for. I do everything to make sure people are "OK" with the girls. I walk them at night when no one is out...i go out with them so they don't bark...i'm terribly active with them.Â
Maybe I'm seeing to far into the future and drawing conclusions that aren't necessary yet. but I can see where this is going. :(Â
I'm going to the next meeting. God I hope I can keep my composure.Â
No you aren't seeing too far into the future!!!......This BSL & witch hunts towards our big dogs won't stop at the "vicious >:( breeds" if it is left to run it's own evil coarse...There will be another breed that is targeted & another & another...This type of thing is happeneing all over!!...There is a small town here in Iowa that targets "any dog over 100 lbs." >:( :o...It is like a small fire here & a small fire there that if left to burn will meet int eh middle like a raging inferno!!!!!...To ignore it or think it doesn't apply to each & everyone of us that own any kind of dog is allowing the flames to burn out of control.
Not to scare you Lin because that is not my intent but we all need to step up & do what you are doing by attending meetings such as you speak of, write our "powers that be" & get our dogs out there to educate people!!!
-
I will go to the next meeting for sure. Maybe I could take the girls with me. :) But yes...I need to be proactive I agree. They may look nasty when they lunge at someone...but they just want to give higs and kisses. :)
-
First off, I want to say that I am so sorry that you are going through this. I hate BSL....my temper flares just thinking about it. YES!!! Take your girls with you to the next meeting, then those that are for BSL have the opportunity to meet them. It always astounds me when self proclaimed 'dog lovers' are supportive of banning pit bulls, rotties, etc. You would think that the 'dog lovers' would educate themselves and not be supportive of BSL. And where did they get the information that Rotties have caused the most fatalities? That is untrue, if they can't get little simple facts right, how are they expected to figure out the bigger things and help the community???
-
First off, I want to say that I am so sorry that you are going through this. I hate BSL....my temper flares just thinking about it. YES!!! Take your girls with you to the next meeting, then those that are for BSL have the opportunity to meet them. It always astounds me when self proclaimed 'dog lovers' are supportive of banning pit bulls, rotties, etc. You would think that the 'dog lovers' would educate themselves and not be supportive of BSL. And where did they get the information that Rotties have caused the most fatalities? That is untrue, if they can't get little simple facts right, how are they expected to figure out the bigger things and help the community???
you're right...they aren't number 1...Rotts are No. 2. i found this today:
The breeds most likely to kill
As stated above, there are two problems that have been reported as though there is only a single problem, namely there are canine homicides (i.e., dog bite related human fatalities) and the dog bite epidemic. In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:
-
Lins, I would really caution you not to get too worked up about this yet. It might end up being a major issue, and the line about rotties was unnecessary and possibly directed at lady and grace. However, it might end up working out that their lawyer says they can't do anything about it, or that even if they do, they need to include a grandfather clause (which would mean that it wouldnt apply to lady and grace). I think that it is a great idea to attend the meetings, but I would be careful to remain calm and not get defensive - if you do, it would only make the problem worse. It's totally lame that they are flipping out when the dog attack reference didn't even occur in your development, and if they do try and take action against you, you have every right to get upset. But for right now, try not to be too upset about something that hasn't happened yet. Instead of being angry and defensive, try and be proactive by going to meetings, being friendly, and politely educate your neighbors.
-
Lins, I would really caution you not to get too worked up about this yet. It might end up being a major issue, and the line about rotties was unnecessary and possibly directed at lady and grace. However, it might end up working out that their lawyer says they can't do anything about it, or that even if they do, they need to include a grandfather clause (which would mean that it wouldnt apply to lady and grace). I think that it is a great idea to attend the meetings, but I would be careful to remain calm and not get defensive - if you do, it would only make the problem worse. It's totally lame that they are flipping out when the dog attack reference didn't even occur in your development, and if they do try and take action against you, you have every right to get upset. But for right now, try not to be too upset about something that hasn't happened yet. Instead of being angry and defensive, try and be proactive by going to meetings, being friendly, and politely educate your neighbors.
:) I am getting calmed down about this as the day goes on. I just this morning couldn't help but feel like the perverbial finger was pointed right at me and feel protective and defensive.
Tonight...I'm gonna run up the street and meet the new pit bull up the road and talk to people (calmly) and see what happens. I was really really ticked this morning.
thanks for saying it outloud though. I needed that.
-
Put me on the list of "never met a mean rottie" people, too. But the only goldens I would ever consider turning my back on would be wearing a guide dog harness! I've seen a number of them just go off. In terms of the amount of damage done by bad breeding, IMHO goldens may be even worse off then German shepherds.
Maybe I could take the girls with me.
No maybes about it. You NEED to take the girls with you to meetings. Take them everywhere, and do it all the time. By keeping your dogs under wraps, you've apparently been feeding the idiots' perception that they're dangerous! :o So much for trying to be sensitive to their feelings. It's time for you need to make your dogs so public that everyone in the whole HOA knows them by name and can tell them apart. Stupid #(*&@$^*! ::)
Stop walking the girls at night--walk them as often as possible in the daytime, when there are lots of people around. If you can walk them when the kids are going to or just getting out of school, all the better for everyone. The girls can learn that kids are good because they get treats when they ignore them, and the kids can learn that your dogs are nice. Maybe some of them will even want to be friends.
I know that you're not a people person by nature, but you have such wipes for neighbors that you're going to have to learn to play the role of a people person for the girls' sake!
Go forth and bring wisdom, I say unto you; do not hide the girls' light under a bushel. You must be a faithful disciple of the Gospel of The Big Paw, and convert the heathens around you to the truth of our ways by the goodness of your dogs and the sweetness of their drools!
Well...the massive amounts of their drools, anyway.
:-*
-
It sounds totally paranoid, but this is basically the reason we have never registered Badger, we won't chip him, and there is really no record of him. When we take him to the vet, we use a different address. We have never, and would never live in a neighborhood with cc&r's (neighborhood assc) because of this.
People are idiots when it comes to large breeds. A while back, some people in our state were trying to get pits/rotts/dobermans/gsd banned.
Good luck Lins...I agree with everything everyone has said on this. You and your girls have done NOTHING wrong. You are just victims of tolerated discrimination .
:(
-
Everyone else has such great ideas but I would also research dog attacks by small and mid-size dogs and take those along also. Just to prove that all dogs can be provoked or mishandled. Then knowing me I would ask for a restriction on kids yelling, screaming, running, playing, etc out in their yards. I don't have kids and I might have a kid phobia. ;)
Kat
-
Lins, I am sorry your having to deal with this. Home Owners Associations basically suck. I had a run in with mine. http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,9785.0.html
If I ever get another place it will be without Home Owners Associations. They get together like the witch hunters that they are.Then they start picking on anyone that doesn't fit into their small narrow minded vision of conformity.
I am not a big people person myself and it just burns me up to think people like us have to justify our choices to the witch hunters. I hope everything works out well for you.
-
I would hesitate to bring the girls to the meeting. There may be a lot of high emotion and heated arguments and the girls may not understand and any nervousness on their part may be misconstrued and could work against you. However, you've done a great thing already by inviting your neighbors to come meet your dogs individually.
Also, I don't know if I'd bring evidence of smaller dogs attacking people - that could also potentially aggravate the situation and they could decide that they just won't allow dogs at all - period - in the neighborhood if they can't trust any breed. Non-pet owners are going to interpret this as all dogs are the same kind of info.
It's better to accentuate the positives about pet ownership - less chance of homes in the neighborhood being robbed if they have dogs, companionship, lowers your blood pressure, guardians, etc. and point out the great things rottweilers - and other large breeds - have done (i.e. that they are not all bad). One reason rottweilers may be labeled as tops in the list of severe dog bite reports is that a bite from a poorly maintained rottie is obviously going to do a whole lot more damage than a bite from a mean toy poodle. And, it's not as likely that someone would report a bite from a smaller dog since the damage would not be as severe so the reports are skewed and not necessarily accurate.
-
This is an excellent article about dog bites from the HSUS. I suggest you print it and make enough copies to pass out to everyone at the meeting:
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/dog_care/stay_dog_bite_free/questions_and_answers_about_dog_bites/
especially note where it says the most effective laws (to prevent dog bites) are the ones that punish the owners not the dogs or breed of dog (something like that)