Any raw feeders on BPO??

[Willow]

I am also a raw feeder.  I made the switch about 4 years ago and the yahoo list "rawfeeding" was instrumental in helping me get over the "hangups" I had, due to all the misinformation from Vets, dog food companies etc.

Speaking of which.  A friends older Lab got sick the other night.  The symptoms were pacing and panting really hard.  He also had a 104 temp.  My friend took him into the Vet, who kept him for several days and did all sorts of tests, xrays etc. (and put him on huge doses of anti-biotics) and never did find out exactly what was wrong with him.  Personally, it sounded like pancreatitis (sp) to me and I know they tended to not only over feed him, but give him things I wouldn't give my dogs in large amounts, such as french fries! 

Anyway, as per the Vets instructions, they now have the dog on Science Diet dog food and streamed vegetables, because the Vet told them our dogs need the five food groups just as we do!    

I am also wondering why the steamed veggies if Science Diet is supposed to be such a great dog food?   

[DixieSugarBear]

Lisa, in my experience it's GRAINS that cause the dirrhea, that's why it's worse when you give him rice.

If you don't want to go RAW, have you tried Innova EVO?

Also, Slippery Elm works wonders with diarrhea!

I am using the Slippery Elm now and it has made a difference in only two days.  So what is it telling me is wrong if the Slippery Elm is making it better. 

Lisa

[Willow]

Innova Evo is the only commercial dog food I will feed my dogs.  I try to feed exclusively raw, but my Aussie has a torn ACL I am treating conservatively, so she gets daily supplements and it's easier, (esp. the powdered raw gelatin) to mix it in a little dog food and warm water.

Even with the Evo however, there are ingredients in it that I don't think are necessary or good to give to dogs.  The more ingredients, the more chance for allergies and stomach upsets IMO.  I prefer to feed my dogs their veg's/fruit myself, rather than have it in the kibble, because that way I can regulate how much they get and if they don't like something or it doesn't agree with them, I don't feed it.

[hugo~monster]

moonlitcroatia, very good info on the benefits of raw feeding!
hugo grew up on a mixture of raw and kibble.  over a year ago i switched him to completely raw diet and he has eaten this way ever since.  you are right about the less poop, less water consumption (which is great when you have a dog with a huge full beard!), better teeth, better breath, etc.  i have recently switched my 2 little poodles over to not quite raw, but more of a natural diet.  they no longer eat kibble but instead eat cooked meat, veggies and whole grains with bonemeal and other supplements added.  hugo does great on the raw meat, but they didnt handle it so well.  hugo gets raw chicken (various parts from day to day), raw beef and bones, eggs (usually cooked though), pork and other meats.  he also gets, a couple of times a week, steamed veggie and fruti mash with brown rice or oats (just as a filler) and supplements.  he has done great on this!
shellie and hugo~

[MommyOfSchnauzers]

Off topic here, but I have to say that Hugo is beautiful!!!!

[hugo~monster]

thank you mommyofschnauz ers!  i took a look at your gs and i must say what a looker!
shellie and hugo~

[MommyOfSchnauzers]

Hi Shellie!  I'm Melissa.  lol  Thanks.  And on the topic of feeding raw...  I have started adding some raw to her kibble and she seems to really love it and does well with it, as does my Mini.  I am going to be gradually making the switch to raw.  Any pointers?

[Senghe]

I've tried all sorts in the past. I fed my shar-pei raw for a whole year, but they actually did much better on a senior recipe kibble - better digestion, shinier coats and more energy. I think some breeds do better than others on lots of meat. I've found that the oriental breeds I've had don't do as well on lots of meat or high protein food and are often intolerant of beef, wheat, maize and soya.

My Tibetan Mastiff puppy was awful on the two premium large breed puppy foods we tried. Diahorrea and scurfy skin. As a breed, they don't do well on too much protein even as puppies. So at 4 months I put him on a 21% protein lamb and rice kibble available here in England called Superdog Sensitive - it's mid range in price but all it contains is lamb, rice, beet pulp and vitamins. I saw how well my friend's 12 shar-pei looked on it and gave it a go. Flynn's coat and digestion improved within a week and he's never looked back.

As well as his kibble (always soaked in warm water), he gets a spoonful of yogurt in the morning and a chicken wing, lamb ribs, tinned sardines, high quality 'wet' dog food, fresh meat or whatever with it in the evening. My shar-pei has the same minus the chicken as she's allergic and anything bony as it doesn't agree with her. They both look great on it and my shar-pei looks better than she has for a while despite being in the early stages of kidney failure. She used to be on a senior diet, but they changed the recipe and she suddenly lost weight and had no energy - I thought it was the end of the line, but she's like a new dog on this food. I know she should really be on a kidney diet, but I'd rather her enjoy her food for whatever time she has left and she's blooming at the moment.

I think it's horses for courses. Many dogs do well on BARF, many do well on kibble and there's a whole spectrum in between. the trick is finding what works best for your dogs. I think a bit of raw food several times a week is beneficial and especially raw meaty bones as it help keep their teeth clean.

[hugo~monster]

i didnt really realize until i started doing research on types of kibble, various brands, formulas, etc that there was so much junk that alot of dogfood companies put into the kibble.  believe it or not there are euthanized pets, roadkill, restaraunt grease that has turned rancid, plastic bags, styrofoam, flea collars, preservatives and other chemicals, on and on in pet food!  my rott/shep mix roxy died of lymphoma a couple of years ago.  after that i really started looking into the quality of kibble because i had heard that alot of dogs are getting different types of cancers these days possibly linked to low quality ingredients in dog food.  i then began to experiement with feeding hugo raw although he did eat kibble mostly as a pup.  just over a year ago i thought why not just make the complete switch over to raw.  honestly i could feed it cheaper than i could feed him a high quality premium brand. 

things i have learned while feeding him the raw--
dont feed rmb (raw meaty bones) with kibble.  this can (and did with him) give the dog diarhea.  dogs usually get diarhea to some degree the first few days or weeks on switching to raw anyway because their body is detoxing to all the things in kibble.  raw  meat is almost 100% digestable, there is very little waste.  whereas kibble there is alot of indigestable things such as peanut hulls, beet pulp, that just take up space in the food and do not provide any or very little nutrient.  if you feed raw and kibble try to put 8 hours in between the 2.  kibble and raw digest completely different.  kibble takes longer than raw as a result diarhea can occur.  alot of times people will feed raw and kibble together with no problem, each dog will be different.  hugo did get diarhea when fed both at the same time. 

do not cook the bones.  cooked bones splinter.  look at it this way...raw chicken meat is tough and the bones are soft, cooking will soften the meat and make the bones hard and brittle.  so only raw bones! 

adult dogs need between 2 and 4% of their body weight of food each day.  puppies will require more.  there is never an exact science to feeding raw.  each day will be different and each dog will be different. dont let this scare you. 

raw feeding to me is very much worth the small amount of effort it requires.  while reaching in a bag is always more convenient than preparing the food yourself, just think of the benefits and also think of how much healthier your dog will be and could live longer too! 

i can feed hugo for much cheaper on raw than buying a premium food.  i just base his diet around meat.  he gets about 1.5-2 lbs of meat a day.  this is something like a lb of ground beef and 4 legs or a package of gizzard/hearts, and a couple legs and maybe 8 chicken necks.  just vary it.  you can check around your area for wholesale meat distributors.  we have one here and i can get 40 of chicken necks for 40 cents/lb.  last time i got 80 lbs of chicken thighs for $20.  you do have to be able to store and freeze 80 lbs of meat, but hey we all have large breeds here and we know how they can eat LOL!  just alternate raw meat of various kinds-canned tuna or sardines (any fish really), pork, lamb, chicken, turkey, rabbit, deer (and you can even get exotic and get ostrich, bison, ox tail etc). a couple of times a week give blended-to-a-pulp (i steam or boil) veggies such as greens, green beans, squash, bananas, carrots, peas, (anything but onions and raisins or grapes). you can added brown rice or oats just to use as a filler, add a multi vitamin and some oils such as olive and canola and feed a couple of lbs of this mush.   

there are tons of books out there, but honestly if you do a little research you can come up with a great raw feeding plan that suits your dogs. 

the problem i faced feeding hugo kibble was that they were not consistant.  each bag would be a different color, different odor and he would get the runs all the time.  since feeding him raw he only has had diarhea a couple of times and this was when he would scarf up another dogs kibble when i would take him to work with me.  i had tried all sorts of kibble with him.  nutro, diamond, pedigree, beneful, proplan, science diet, eukanuba...the y are coming out with alot more that i would feel comfortable feeding him if i decided to go back to kibble, but he has done so good on raw i just dont want to chance it. 
shellie and hugo~     
     

[RottiMommyAL]

Well, here I am (OP) 7 monthes later, after starting to feed RAW.  I have to say I will NEVER feed ki**le again.  I have raised dogs all my life and this diet is the best I have ever witnessed.
We did find that feeding everyday was too much.  Like a dog in the wild they don't eat everyday.  So, we feed every 2-3 days.  The size of the pork picnics that we give them sustain them for those 3 days, believe me!  The stool situation is amazing, health= perfect,  teeth are gleeming, no funny smells from anywhere (mouth, butt, ears ect). 
I know I was on the fence for sometime before converting and I am so glad we did.
Thanks to all who replied with all their helpful info and stories.
Here's to more healthy dogs!

[MommyOfSchnauzers]

thanks for all the info.  I have been trying to decide what to do.  My Mini has had really irritated skin most of her life.  I always have to buy special soapless shampoo for her or she will just bite at her skin and chew off all of her hair.  After reading the good results that people have had feeding raw, I am leaning toward making the change.  Thanks again!

[hugo~monster]

melissa, it could very well be that your mini has a food allergy to an ingredient(s) in kibble.  alot and i mean ALOT of dogs are allergic to corn, wheat and soy.  of course dogs can have an allergy to ANYTHING, just like people.  but corn especially has been in dog food for years and years and dogs can and have developed allergies to it. when my customers dogs start getting itchy feet and smelly ears, you can pretty much bet they are experiencing a food allergy.  i tell them to fix the problem you have to start from within side the dog-i.e what the dog eats. 

RottiMommyAL, interesting about the every 2-3 days feeds.  never really thought of doing it that way, but you are right about dogs in the wild not eating daily.  i have noticed that sometimes hugo is ravenous and other days not so hungry.  i just feed a little more or less depending on that. 

i have to say that he is not crazy about turkey and any kind of liver.  he just spits it out.  all of the giants at his kennel do not like liver of any kind.  even my little poodles are picky about it. 

[MommyOfSchnauzers]

After reading about the raw feedings etc, that is what I was thinking.  So how should I go about changing their diets?  Feed some raw in between meals and cut back on the amount of kibble while their systems adjust?   Or do I... feed kibble at their morning feeding and raw for the evening feeding?  Or... do I just make the switch to raw? 

[RottiMommyAL]

You switch immediately. You don't mix kibble and raw.  That confuses the digestive system. 
 If you go to the Yahoo groups at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
You can find all the answers to all your questions.  That is where I started.  Also try http://www.rawfeddogs.net/index.php
You will notice a difference in your dog in as soon as 4 days.


First you find out how much to feed your dog by how much they weigh. 2-3% of your dogs adult weight is what you should be feeding the dog.  You start with one type of meat and feed that for 2 weeks.  Then you slowly add variety, ie; other meats, organs RMB (raw meaty bones).  You want to try for a balance of meat and bone.  As you will find out too much meat or organ menas diarehia and too much bone means constipation.  So be careful with the balance. 
Chicken quarters are usually a good balance of meat and bone.  But a dog needs variety, just like what they would eat in the wild.  Poultry is not a big part of a wild dogs diet so you have to keep different kinds of meat around.  We find pork picnics are perfect for our Rottweilers.  Always try and keep the meat in the natural form.  Don't cut/grind the meat or bone.  Let the animal work for his meal.  It will not only tire them mentally but physically also. You should consider giving a fish selection too.  I get canned salmon and makerel.  Once in awhile I put a smorgesbord together and give them the canned fish, some organs, some eggs and some bones.  Just to balance everything out.  Whole turkey necks are super good for bone if your dog gets diarehia.
Don't be afraid.  Know your doing the right thing for your pets.  Reach out for help if you need it and learn as much as you can.
Please feel free to contact me for whatever reason.

[doglover]

I have a question, I was talking to my vet about the raw diet and she said it was very messy And I have really young kids. Is this true? She also breeds Swiss Mountain dogs and said her friend feed raw who also breeds the same breed and she doesn't and there is no difference in the dogs. What do youall think about this? Thanks for you answers.