Author Topic: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!  (Read 5111 times)

Luvmydanes

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Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« on: October 08, 2006, 03:58:45 am »
I really don't know what to do about Goliath and his growling. He is still growling at the kids. And it isn't over just a toy. If they are too "in his face" or trying to hug him even he growls at him. We have tapped him on the nose and told him "no" but I am at a loss as to what to do about it cause I have never had another dog with this problem. At first I thought "well he probably thinks they are his litter mates" but I don't think so...not anymore. And I want to get this under control before he gets enormously huge. Any advice would help so much!

Offline MSF

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 05:12:18 am »
Glad to see you realize there is a problem and want to correct it.
1) STOP letting people (kids) get in his face or hug him.
He appearently for one reason or another doesn't like it and he's letting you know. Please don't allow this anymore cause the next time may be a bite and not just a growl.
Sometimes us furbaby momma's are just as bad as human kid momma's. We think to ourselves BITE??? NOT OUR BABY.
The 'My kid (dog) would NEVER do THAT' syndrome.
Your dog is letting you know that for some reason he doesn't like having others hug him or getting to close to him. I hope someone with much more experience can help you here.
My advice? Seek the help of a proffessional trainer
but also check into any trainer you're considering.
(Not all are good ones)
Till then stop putting your dog in the positions that make him feel threatened and uncomfortable.

Nicole

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 05:21:37 am »
Quote
I have never had another dog with this problem.

Um, I thought that you had another Dane...I guess his name was "Dane", right? Wasn't the reason for getting rid of him that he growled at your kids? Or am I thinking of something else?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if there is something you are inadvertantly doing that might contribute to this?

Offline shangrila

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2006, 05:23:48 am »
First, I would seek out a proffesional trainer to work with you to figure out what exactly triggers this and how to correct it. In addition to training Goliath, you might discover something simple - for instance, I know an animal who would sometimes get very aggressive with people and sometimes not, so they worked with it and figured out that he was only aggressive when approached from behind so they could tell people to only approach him from the front.

Also, does Goliath have a crate? If not, you should consider getting him one so he has his own den. He needs to have a safe place where he can go if the kids are bothering him.

Finally, I would visit your vetrinarian. There are many medical conditions that cause and/or contribute to aggressuon.
RIP former BPO

Luvmydanes

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 05:54:30 am »
Thanks for all the helpful advice. I am taking him to the vet within the next week or so to have his 12 week shots and for a check up so I will talk to the vet about it then. He does have a crate, so maybe I should bring it out in the living room when he is out here and if he goes into it that is his "away from the kids" time. It concerns me mainly because he doesn't do it to my husband or I, just to the kids. I have 3 pretty small children, and for the most part I do try to keep them out of his face, but having 3 small children it is going to be hard to have a dog where I have to try to explain to them that they can't hug their puppy. I'm sure if I talk to the vet, they should be able to recommend something, or refer me to a trainer so we can figure out what is going on. And yes, we did have another dane and got rid of him about 8 months ago because my kids were so much smaller (my youngest wasn't even 2 yrs old yet) and he was very very hyper and would constantly knock the kids over, so it had become a safety issue. I'm hoping to get this issue under control, and until we do I'll just have to be sitting with the kids and Goliath when they are around each other. Thanks again. 

Offline tanimara

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2006, 06:57:31 am »
Hope this helps.. Jackie

Nothing in Life is Free Training Method
Dog Behavior and Training
Does your dog: Get on the furniture and refuse to get off? Nudge your hand, insisting on being petted or played with? Refuse to come when called? Defend its food bowl or toys from you? "Nothing in life is free" can help. "Nothing in life is free" is not a magic pill that will solve a specific behavior problem; rather it's a way of living with your dog that will help it behave better because it trusts and accepts you as its leader and is confident knowing its place in your family.
How to practice "nothing in life is free:"
Using positive reinforcement methods, teach your dog a few commands and/or tricks. "Sit," "Down" and "Stay" are useful commands and "Shake," "Speak" and "Rollover" are fun tricks to teach your dog.
Once your dog knows a few commands, you can begin to practice "nothing in life is free." Before you give your dog anything (food, a treat, a walk, a pat on the head) it must first perform one of the commands it has learned. For example:
YOU
YOUR DOG
Put your dog's leash on to go for a walk
Must sit until you've put the leash on
Feed your dog
Must lie down and stay until you've put the bowl down
Play a game of fetch after work
Must sit and shake hands each time you throw the toy
Rub your dog's belly while watching TV
Must lie down and rollover before being petted
Once you've given the command, don't give your dog what it wants until it does what you want. If it refuses to perform the command, walk away, come back a few minutes later and start again. If your dog refuses to obey the command, be patient and remember that eventually it will have to obey your command in order to get what it wants.
Make sure your dog knows the command well and understands what you want before you begin practicing "nothing in life is free."
The benefits of this technique:
Most dogs assume a neutral or submissive role toward people, but some dogs will challenge their owners for dominance. Requiring a dominant dog to work for everything it wants is a safe and non-confrontational way to establish control.
Dogs who may never display aggressive behavior such as growling, snarling,or snapping, may still manage to manipulate you. These dogs may display affectionate, though "pushy" behavior, such as nudging your hand to be petted or "worming" its way on to the furniture in order to be close to you. This technique gently reminds the "pushy" dog that it must abide by your rules.
Obeying commands helps build a fearful dog's confidence; having a strong leader and knowing its place in the hierarchy helps to make the submissive dog feel more secure.
Why this technique works:
Animals that live in groups, like dogs, establish a social structure within the group called a dominance hierarchy. This dominance hierarchy serves to maintain order, reduce conflict and promote cooperation among pack members. In order for your home to be a safe and happy place for pets and people, it's best that the humans in the household assume the highest positions in the dominance hierarchy. Practicing "nothing in life is free" effectively and gently communicates to your dog that its position in the hierarchy is subordinate to yours. From your dog's point of view, children also have a place in this hierarchy. Because children are small and can get down on the dog's level to play, dogs often consider them to be playmates, rather than superiors. With the supervision of an adult, it's a good idea to encourage children in the household (aged eight and over) to also practice "nothing in life is free" with your dog.
Copyright Denver Dumb Friends League and Humane Society of the United States. All rights reserved. Used with permission.
Jackie Wood
Owner/Breeder Tanimara Great Pyrenees

"A people without a history is like wind on the buffalo grass"
Crazy Horse - Oglala Sioux

Offline bluskygirl

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2006, 06:34:35 pm »
I had these problems with my last dog.  I know you said your kids are small... my youngest is 4, but here's what I have done;

1. Get your kids involved in some of the "doggie care" things. Let your kids give Goliath treats for some good behavior that you know he will succeed easily at (NILF).  Have your kids call him, and when he comes, let them reward with a treat. This will help Goliath to know that good things happen when he comes over to the kids.  Also,  have them participate in feeding time. I have my two boys rotate the feeding schedule with me. We all feed Bella; this shows Bella that we are all her caregivers, and dogs tend NOT to want to display dominance towards the human(s) that provide their basic essentials. 
2. Find a behavioralist that has good, non-violent, reward based training and take the kids that are old enough with you to the training so that they can participate. 
3. Build some trusting, good experiences. This can be a lot of work, and requires constant supervision, but if there's a game that Goliath loves to play, get your kids to play it with her (I was told NEVER play tug of war, becuase it can create aggression even if there isn't any to begin with). One game my kids play with her is they hide some kibble under a box and then sit with her while she tries to get it out; then they reward her with lots of "good girls" and affection and play again. 

My behavioralist told me a couple things that I think made a big difference; One, that the dog should NOT think that the kids are her/his litter mates; so no rough housing (as puppies would do). They have to be seen as above him, not equal to him, so games where the kids have control, but he "wins" with treats are good games.  The other thing is that often a dog becomes like Goliath not because he's aggressive naturally, but becuase he feels as though he's under pressure to take on the Alpha role. He may be timid in reality, and so doesn't actually want that job, but feels he has to do it becuase there isn't anyone else taking on the job of the family. This makes a timid non-leader type dog scared and anxious. So, establishing alpha through training and obedience (among other things) might help too. A behavioralist will definitely be able to tell you about Goliath and what is causing the behavior though.

Hope this LOOOOONG response helps (sorry).  :) Best of luck...
Bella- Smooth Coat Saint
Piston- grouchy kitty
Jupiter- Scaredy Cat

Luvmydanes

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 02:21:19 am »
Thank you all for your responses. I did a lot of research online last night too, and found pretty much all of the same things as you guys are saying. I do normally have the kids help feed him, but we have just started the "nothing in life is free" method. Goliath has just caught on how to sit (after lots and lots of practice on his walks) and so now we will be doing that for EVERYTHING we give him. I will definitely have the kids give him the command and help me in everything I do in hopes that it will help. And no offence taken Tina, I understand what you are saying. I have told the kids there are certain things they can do, and certain things they can't do. Although it is also so hard for them to remember being that they are young, so it will be something I have to stay on top of constantly. Yesterday went ok. The kids were playing fetch with him in the house and were petting and "loving" on him and when he didn't growl, or rather, everytime the kids pet him and he was good, we would all be sure to tell him "good boy Goliath" and lots of petting. I will try the reward thing too when he comes to them when he is called. I think it will just take a lot of work and practice, but I know he will catch on. Also we are taking him to the vet next week, so I will talk with them about it also just to get their input as well. The nothing in life is free approach seems like it would help out a lot, even with Jasmine, so we have started on that asap. Even Jasmine is showing a big change and its only been a day! Before we let her outside, inside, play, feeding her, anything, she sits. And the kids also help with the commands...So thank you thank you!!!

Offline Kermit

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2006, 05:59:03 am »
Sounds like you are well on your way to a good puppy. ;D

YAY!

Offline tanimara

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 06:11:36 am »
You made my day!  Im so glad it's starting to work already!  Some folks you can send info and suggestions all day and noting comes of it because they dont apply it consistantly.  That's the key.  Keep us posted on your progress please..... Jackie
Jackie Wood
Owner/Breeder Tanimara Great Pyrenees

"A people without a history is like wind on the buffalo grass"
Crazy Horse - Oglala Sioux

Luvmydanes

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Re: Arrrgghhhh!! Stressed out! Help!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 07:02:37 am »
You made my day!  Im so glad it's starting to work already!  Some folks you can send info and suggestions all day and noting comes of it because they dont apply it consistantly.  That's the key.  Keep us posted on your progress please..... Jackie

Consistance is definitely the key to making it work. It was kind of hard to remember at first, but now its just so easy, and it truly does work.