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Author Topic: New-on a Dane Quest and have lots of Questions- Long  (Read 7634 times)
TLK
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« on: June 11, 2007, 09:04:52 PM »

Good morning! My name is Tori. I am wife to Dan for 15yrs and mother to 4 skin kids (15, 12, 5, and 4), one fur kid Jack our mixed breed, 7 chickens, and 1 bearded dragon named Mozart. We live on 10 acres in rural Northwest Ohio. We have been on our Dane quest for about a year now. I have been lurking on this site for several months but now I need to come out of hiding and seek your wisdom.

We have been gathering knowledge of the Dane breed as well as informing ourselves about the good and the bad with the Dane breed. We have been making our home Dane ready for the last few months and are now ready to seek a breeder. Well actually I am in contact with a breeder I believe to be a good and ethical breeder. However, I am so afraid of being wrong about this. My biggest fear is inadvertantly buying from a BYB or unethical breeder. So this is where all you come in. What have been some of the warning signs to any of you that helped you realize you were not dealing with someone who was in it for the money? If you don't fill out an application for a puppy is that a red flag? I have read that good breeders only breed 1, maybe 2 times a year, is that for each dam? What about the stud dog? How often can he be breed ethically? If the breeder has a non-refundable deposit required is that a red flag?
I'll leave you with these this morning as I need to get to work. Thanks for all your help. I am really enjoying this site.

Sincerely,
TLK
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
Nicole
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 01:21:00 AM »

I don't have a Dane but I would just like to chime in on the wonders of a rescue dog! I've got 2 and boy do I love them!

I also rescued a Dane a few months back. He now has a great home in Omaha and is VERY happy! He was a wonderful boy and I'm glad I could help him find a new home.

Here's another great rescue in Ohio!

http://www.hhdane.com/

I've actually had a little bit of contact with this group and found them to be quite easy to deal with.
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TLK
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 03:07:34 AM »

Hi and thanks for your reponses. Yes we did discuss getting a dane from a rescue but my dh (who I think is a little intimidated by the size) has made it known that for the first one he wants it to be a puppy. In fact, Harlequin Haven was a rescue I looked into quite a bit. Their website was what prompted us to start making our home ready for a dane. The breeder we have made contact with has been wonderful to answer our questions and has welcomed us to come and see her establishment. She has put us on a list for a litter that will be born this fall. Her website has the health certs and tests all put on her site for the sire as well as the dam and the last four generations of both.(they are linked to the OFA website) I know several other breeders have gotten dogs from here and taken them on to the show arena. It's just sad that one has to be so suspicious when adding a new member to the family. Embarrassed Please keep the advice coming. It is very helpful. Who knows maybe I'll get a puppy and a rescue  Roll Eyes.

Sincerely,
TLK
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
sc.trojans
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2007, 12:24:27 PM »


Good luck with your Dane search - I think there is a lot of great advice here and so I will weigh in with just a few points that I think are particularly important:

-First, I DO think a non-refundable deposit is a huge red flag.  Never met a reputable breeder who required one and I would never buy from anyone who did.  What is the purpose of this if not money? Reputable breeders have more homes than puppies and do not need to do this, and it sends the message that irrespective of what I have to offer, I want some earnest money up front that by the way, if I don't have what you are looking for - I am not giving back.  That isn't good business no matter what business you're in - period.

-I wouldn't be concerned with not having a written application - but I would never advise you buy from someone who does not offer a contract.  If in doubt, just search this board alone for lots of examples of how it has hurt people and the puppy.  Contracts are not created equal - the best contracts are written clearly about the puppy - not protecting the breeder but the dog!  At a minimum, the contract should spell out what is required of you in terms of care, environment, and commitment and what is required of the breeder in terms of health and reimbursement.  Promising to replace a puppy with a puppy is a classic puppymill tactic so avoid.  Good breeders give money back if there is something crippling or genetically devastating that occurs. And the contract should always spell out that the breeder will always take the dog back under any circumstances if you can no longer care for it....and you promise to return the dog to her under the same.

-Last, I can't emphasize the health testing enough.  OFA, CERF, cardiac, thyroid - all pertinent health tests appropriate for a Dane - be sure to see them.  OFA certs don't mean much if you don't look at siblings also - clear parents, grandparents, and great grandparents only provide statistical odds of 30% clear so you need to understand what each of those groups have produced (all of their offspring) to really have the best potential picture of what they are producing/carrying.

Oh, and if I can put a final plug in for rescue - I will shamelessly do it.  I got a call this week from someone asking for help with their Dane - she is aggressive and they don't want to keep her. I encouraged them to return her to the local Dane club rescue where they got her and they said that "they are too unethical and abusive" and won't send her back there.  As a result, I had occasion this week to do some research into the Dane clubs/rescues, and contact a few Dane breeders I know (one of which is right by you) and was frankly saddened and dismayed by what I have learned about the state of the breed.  Rescues so overwhelmed with dogs they are no longer accepting them and the club in general not able to support the numbers that are out there.  In my geographic region, the rescues even have a well known sleazy operation on their websites as a suggested place to send your unwanted Dane because they are over burdened. I can't imagine this since most giant breed clubs I know of have been working to shut this operation down, and yet the Dane club is turning to them and advertising them - very unfortunate and a testament to the current state of things.  So always consider please....you never know the gem you can find there.

Good luck!
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SC Trojans
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2007, 05:10:51 PM »

Hi Tori and welcome.  It's wonderful that you are doing your research so carefully.  We've had Pyrs and Daisy a very sweet Golden mix for years.  We have had 2 Pyrs Cara & Halley that came from breeders and sadly, both are at the bridge now.  Earlier this year we adopted Cassie & Sammy, both Pyrs.  A while after Halley passed away from cancer last year I started to contact local breeders and breed club reps and I found out something extremely upsetting about Halley's breeder.  Though we thought that we'd checked her out throughly, there was one big thing that we didn't know to do at the time and that is to contact the breed club rescues near the breeder to find out if that breeder is on good terms with rescue.  In our case, we found out (3 1/2 yrs after bringing Halley home) that her breeder refuses to pull her own dogs out of rescue.  If we'd known that this breeder has refused to  rescue her own puppies that would have told me that she is not in the business for the betterment of the breed much less the love of her own dogs, but just for the money.  Since then I've talked to many rescue organizations and they've told me about breeders that have called rescue multiple times and told them to pick up unsold puppies or the breeder would either dump them at a kill shelter or just stop feeding them.   Shocked  Angry  Cry  Certainly there are good breeders out there (like Cara's), but personally I won't buy a puppy from a breeder again w/o finding out if they dump any of their dogs (much less litters) on rescue b/c they aren't making enough money on them.  I honestly had no idea what a big problem this is for the rescue organizations.

Sammy came to us through rescue and Cassie is snoring on our sofa as I type thanks to a wonderful person at a kill shelter that kept my number and refered Cass' original family to us for re-homing when illness forced them to give her up.  Both Cassie & Sammy are gentle, sweet and just wonderful with our kids.  They are everything that we were hoping for and sooo much more.  We're incredibly blessed to have them.  Though Sammy was abused and nearly starved to death by his previous "home", he is the sweetest, most gentle & loving big boy you could ever imagine.  In the past my husband had been afraid to adopt a rescue b/c he was afraid that a rescue dog might be unpredicable and dangerous to our kids.  I wish that we'd checked this out better years ago, if so we would've adopted a rescue puppy or dog a long time ago.  So if you specifically want a puppy, I would encourage you to talk to rescue also as they have many puppies that come in as well as wonderful adults.  Whatever you decide though, please check out prospective breeders with your rescue contacts first to be sure that they really do care for their puppies for the life of the dog.  I'm so glad that you are looking into everything so carefully and I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your new addition when you bring him or her home.   Smiley
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Marie

And my pups:
Daisy a 9 y/o Golden/Lab mix
Sammy a 6-7(?) y/o Great Pyrenees adopted 3/07
Cassie a 3 y/o Pyr/Mystery Snuggle Bunny mix adopted 2/07

My angel girls waiting at the Bridge:
Cara 1989-2001 Great Pyrenees
Sally ? - 1993 Dobie(rescued '92)
Halley 2002-2006 Great Pyrenees
AltDeutsche
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2007, 06:22:08 PM »

We were looking at getting a Dane. And we did! But since we had not had one before we opted for an older dog that wasn't a puppy. We got lucky here and found a breeder who had rescued a 2yo from someone else. It wasn't one of his pups although he had a litter and if we wanted could have one. That was tempting! But the size of those pups running wild and trying to house train them when we had never been near the breed before put us off. Joker is perfect! He is house trained and still a puppy. He has another year to grow. He is wonderful around our children and others. We did a lot of research too and commend you for it.
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Danielle
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TLK
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2007, 05:50:55 AM »

Thanks you guys. You can imagine how much we are agonizing over this. We have been re-discussing the rescue route as I am just honestly, almost to the point of paralyzation as to finding a good breeder. I am second guessing myself already in light of the responses here. I haven't been asked by this breeder any questions other than if we wanted put on the list. Granted, the litter isn't due till fall but I would feel so much better if she gave us the third degree. I hate using any breeder that I have found on the internet but how in the world do you find a great breeder? Shocked The newspaper adds are definitely out. Classified internet adds are out. I stumbled on the breeders site that I have contacted but am still feeling uneasy. Maybe I have a problem. "Bad-breeder Frightenosis" Grin
Keep directing me please. One more thing on rescue... we have a "submissive" 12yr old who is more than a bit uneasy about the size of a large dane. Hence the puppy avenue as well. Would I need to worry about this with a rescue Dane...you know possibly dominating this child?

Thanks everyone.
TLK
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2007, 06:47:52 AM »

Good questions.  I strongly believe that if you have a funny feeling about something that you absolutely should  be cautious.  Every time I've overridden my own concerns I've ended up kicking myself later.  Since you are wondering about the lack of questions and all, I'd call the Dane rescue person nearest that breeder and ask them if he/she is a good breeder or not.  Rescue is in a unique position in that they will know if there is a bad side of this breeder or not.  For liability reasons, they may not tell you everything that they know, but you can get a very good idea from them (especially if you're good at listening in between the lines, if you know what I mean).  Also, you can ask rescue for a list of breeders that they'd recommend.  That way even if they're afraid to warn you outright, they will be able to let you know by leaving the breeder off of their recommended list.  Finally, you may want to go to the rescue site and meet the rescue coordinator.  You'll get to meet many dogs, learn more about the breed, let your child meet the dogs and get a better idea of how this will work out between your child and the dog.  Who knows, maybe you'll meet your perfect dog there, too.   Wink  Smiley  Another big bonus to rescue is that you can meet adult dogs that are more sedate and less inclined to jump up on your child and other puppy behaviors that might be tough on your 12 y/o.  Just a thought.
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Marie

And my pups:
Daisy a 9 y/o Golden/Lab mix
Sammy a 6-7(?) y/o Great Pyrenees adopted 3/07
Cassie a 3 y/o Pyr/Mystery Snuggle Bunny mix adopted 2/07

My angel girls waiting at the Bridge:
Cara 1989-2001 Great Pyrenees
Sally ? - 1993 Dobie(rescued '92)
Halley 2002-2006 Great Pyrenees
Duramax
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2007, 12:45:10 PM »

www.rmgreatdan e.org is a rescue for danes in colorado the website has lots of pics of the danes that need homes, wide range of ages usualy also. if you do buy from a breeder, google their name on the internet, and contact people who have already recieved pups from the breeder to hear firsthand feedback, if a breeder is honest they will be more willing to be upfront and talk about all subjects and know all answers. if you buy from a breeder i recomend picking the dog up, not having it shipped, this way you can see what kind of living conditions they have, if the dogs are socialised with people. you can tell alot by seeing where they are borne.
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Christina
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2007, 01:47:27 PM »


Based on your description of your interaction with this potential breeder - this is not a good one.  A good breeder would have already interviewed you at length before deciding to put you on her list.  And the advice about checking in with rescue is a great idea....we know a ton about the good and the bad and those who call me with questions about my breed will get the straight answers about who to avoid.  Not all will be as forthcoming, but they will steer you right in one way or another.

A breeder who is not willing to take her dogs back - that she produced - is not ethical as I said earlier and I view this as the most critical promise they can make in their contracts with you.  I even have this in my rescue contract - that all of my fosters must be returned to me - and the one I have right now is a second time around boy with me.  We always find out who the breeder is behind our rescues, and we always then contact them to let them know we have their dog - when they are not concerned, show no interest in taking them back, and generally wash their hands, we take note.

Finding a good breeder may seem daunting, but it doesn't need to be if you know what to look for - you want the breeder who frankly sounds like a freak in how selective she is about where she places her puppies - she wants to know everything about how her puppy will live in placed with you.  She will discuss training at length to ensure your philosophies match and her puppy will be handled the way she would want, she will grill you on diet recognizing how important this is and will want to know what you will feed, and she will insist on health certifications from you at the appropriate age so she gets feedback on what she produced. She will discuss all of the health issues in her lines, and share the good and the bad. She will want to know your family schedule and how much time the puppy will be alone, where he will sleep, and how he will live.  All of these speak to how much the breeder cares about the pups she produces. If she sounds closer to a "make a deposit, and we will ship you a puppy" kind of breeder - then you know what you're getting.

The good news for you is you are interested in a breed that is in great supply sadly.  There are many Danes in rescue that are puppies, or less than a year of age.  You can evaluate a rescue as much as is needed.  A good rescue will do a home evaluation to ensure you are a good fit for a Dane and can handle one - and will interview all the family members - I know I do.  And they will share all they know about the dog and its background - as I said, I can usually provide people with a pedigree and full background in my breed.  So don't be afraid to look at rescue - they are always worth looking at.

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TLK
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 05:00:35 AM »

Hello everyone I wanted to update you all on our search. Things have gotten better. I have talked at length with the breeder and am feeling better. They have been showing over the weekends and this is the biggest reason for the lack of contact. I will be meeting her soon as one of the pups from another dam has come available. The family that had her on hold are relocating and so we are going to take a look. The sire is from another breeder and I have been doing lots of research on him and his breeder as well. Health certs are all available for them, parents, full siblings and half-siblings which I have been checking all that are registered. The pups have a health guarantee and are to be taken back to the breeder if we can no longer take care of her. They are raised in house so they are being exposed to knew things everyday. Wish me luck on this as I am still nervous however, I still want your voices of reason. We won't be going for several days so let me hear your advice.
Thanks
TLK

BTW I haven't given up on possibly getting a rescue.
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2007, 07:55:14 AM »

i agree, i think you'll be able to tell if something is wrong.
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Christina
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"Some days you're the dog; some days you're the hydrant." -Unknown
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 11:33:35 AM »

I want to say good luck with getting your very own Dane.  I have  Danes - Willow and Radar.  Willow I bought from a breeder who was ok.  Willow has been great and very healthy.  We got her when she was 10 weeks old.  I wanted a puppy for the very same reasons.  My 2nd Dane, Radar (that is his big head in my avatar) - he was sort of a rescue.  He was a breeder return.  I found him off of craigslist.  He was 8 mos old, deaf, about 20 lbs underweight, had mange, and had been fed puppy food which caused him to grow very fast.  But now he is a good weight, the mange is gone, and his joints all look really great.  He is the sweetest baby ever - And I just love him!!!  I do think that having and loving a Dane is a life changing experience.  I don't think that I will ever be able not to have one.  So good luck.  I wish you the best!
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