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Author Topic: Help I am blowing it big time with Ellie  (Read 8181 times)
TLK
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« on: July 03, 2007, 04:16:56 AM »

Okay, after 3 very sleepless nights my patience is wearing thin. Ellie is a huge howler not just in the night but even in the day. I tried starting over with introducing the crate so she wouldn't hate it so much. I don't even know how it's going! She is now refusing to come to the potty spot. Today she has peed in the house twice and on the back deck once. I have carried her out to the spot over and over but she runs back up to the deck and sits by the door. So I have been putting her back in her crate when we go in because I know she is waiting to do it on the floor. Of course this brings on the howling. I have given her chews and toys in her crate with her. I don't even remember anymore if I should ignore her or tell her "Quiet!" when she howls. She is starting to hate me I just know it. Please point me in the right direction. I am honestly taking her out about every 45 min. because if I don't she will mess on the floor. Up until this point we've had her out of her crate most of the day but today she has become horrid to deal with. I need a nap a long, long nap.

Does anyone else hear the WAAAMMMMMBULAN CE!! Embarrassed

Thanks and sorry, but Jack was soooooo easy to train.

TLK
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
lins_saving_grace
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 04:42:48 AM »

have you tried filling a tin can with coins and shaking it when there's a howl from the crate?  grace was a howler.  still is to a point. 
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zchic
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 06:57:38 AM »

When you take her out, put her on a leash and walk her till she goes potty, that way she has to stay in the yard and can't run to the house. Make sure you have tons of treats and praise her as soon as she does. I'm no help with crate advice...they never worked for me I couldn't stand the crying. LOL
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-Jodi
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Gracie- Merelequin (deaf) dane pup


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TLK
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 08:01:12 AM »

We have tried the loud noise but haven't tried the leash, but I will definitely think about that. I don't want her to associate the leash with something negative as we haven't yet gotten her used to it. It is mostly me I am sure. I've been a little (okay a lot) frustrated because everything I've read makes it sound like she should be able to go for at least and hour or so before she decides to pee. I timed her this afternoon and it is so random. She peed 3 more times on the floor and tried two more times on the deck. It was anywhere from 10min to 30 min after we took her out to go. AHHH. I'm also frustrated by our vet visit and am pretty sure I'll have to find a new one. He is less than supportive of any information from the internet as apparently I'm too stupid to discern factual information from false.UGGHH! Also, I'm a little concerned with her weight. She is very "ribby". I know danes should be lean but she is THIN. The breeder said 1 1/2 cups two times a day and we've upped it a little to  1 1/4 cups three times a day. I've looked at several pics of danes around her age and they all seem to at least be filled out in the rib area. Could anyone tell me what they are (or were) feeding at around 9 weeks of age? I've looked at the Great Dane Ladies site and she reccommends 2-4 cups at this age starting at the low end. Help  Cry

Thanks everyone..... I still need a nap. Roll Eyes
On a more pleasant note Ellie is doing very well with basic obedience and is doing pretty well with "Sit"

Still can't get my pics up. Almost everything on this site has boxes with red X's in it. Sad

Tori
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TLK
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 08:42:53 AM »

Let me start by saying OMG!!! Your puppy is sooooooo cute!!!! I want her! LOL Have you noticed her drinking large ammounts of water? You might want to have her checked for a bladder/UT Infection. Morgayne my IW pup came to me with a bladder infection, it was so bad she was peeing blood. Your pup should be able to hold her pee and go an hour or more between times. If you take her out on the leash. You can make it all posotive, Praise her and talk in the "puppy talk high pitch voice" to get her to follow you around. With Morgayne I repeat "go potty" over and over then when she does it I praise her and give her a treat. It worked great with my 2 Danes back when they were pups.
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-Jodi
Mom to:
Thorn- 8 year old fawn male dane
Morgayne- Wolfhound pup
Gracie- Merelequin (deaf) dane pup


1996-2007
Tisha...my best friend, I miss you girl.
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 08:50:06 AM »

Kaila had to go out every 1 1/2 like clockwork when she was a little one.  It definitely made sleeping fun.  I've never crated during the night with my pups.  In fact, Cinder is the first dog that I ever crated and now all 3 have their own crates.  I also used the puppy pads for Kaila when she was little just in case their was an accident.  She would seek them out and use them instead of the floor.  I just made sure that there were several in each room.  I would definitely keep her outside until she goes and potties and then super excited treats and praise for it.  Can you block off the deck with a baby gate to keep her in the yard if you don't want to use the leash?  I don't care where my pups potty at as long as it's outside.  Good luck and I hope that helps some.  By the way, she is adorable. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 11:19:08 AM »

Well im no help  for the  potting Are lil  guy has  done wonderful  so far.  BUt as  for the crate I asked about it  awile  back and some one  told me to  put a blanket  over it.  Welli  put  my house coat over the oneside of screens and  a sweater  On the door IT  really worked miracles  for Zeus. He was a howler in his crate and  barked etc.. but as soon as I put the  sweater and stuff over the door  he woudl  quiet  up now (its only been  what  4 days)  He will go in it  during the day and no noice with out  any  covers. I still cover it at night  so he will  sleep a little longer.  Wink I would t ry  the cover it worked for me. The loud noices  never  did  for  zeus  and the ignoring him was a pain
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TLK
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2007, 09:05:35 PM »

I haven't been giving treats at potty time because I've been too afraid of screwing up her health. Honestly, I am paranoid about doing the wrong thing as far as her eating because it seems like now is such a sensitive time. However, I do believe I will try it. I also think we are getting somewhere with the crate training. She was not too bad yesterday and last night my son wanted to sleep downstairs with her ( I have been doing this). I was so tired I didn't hear her at all. As a matter of fact my dh woke me up at 4:00 am. and asked if I checked on her. We went down and peeked in and she was sleeping. This morning however, her crate was a mess. She peed in several spots on her blanket. I asked ds how many times she went out and he said 1 time around 4:30. NO WONDER!!! I know it will take time. Patience is so not my strong point. Thanks for all the wisdom I am definitely putting it to good use.
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TLK
Mom of Six kids a nice blend of skin and fur
Wife to a dh who is also a nice blend of fur and skin. He's an Animal!! hee hee
bigdogs@5501
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 12:27:32 AM »

WOW- Ok first - she is way too cute. Now, as far as potty breaking- Jake was horrible- It took us 6 mos before he was completely potty trained- And I remember the last accident-OF course we had company and he just went in front of every one- The husb pretty much lost his cool and Jake just clicked at that moment and he has never had an accident since. ( Husband didnt touch him, but verbally went off on him, guess that was enough)
Now the Pyrs- the girls, they were horrible- sounds like Ellie. Just random going, no definite time span etc, just squat. Part of it was thier age at the time, because as they got older they were able to hold it longer and got use to the "lets go outside" command.
Tug is a male- no problems- he holds it and goes out side- Absolutely NO accidents with him since he was about 7 weeks old.
I am wondering if the breeder kept her on a concrete or tiled floor- maybe that is why she feels that is where she is suppose to go? It would make sense. It will take some retraining to get her to go on the grass if that was the case. The leash is an excellent idea- She stays on the grass on the leash until she has gone potty- then she gets major praise and maybe a special treat that she only gets when she goes potty out side.
As far as the crating- she will eventually learn that it is her home, right now she is confused and probably just wants that human interaction. She probably had at least 8 siblings and if you think about it, puppies are very social creatures and take comfort in each other. She has been seperated from her siblings, is by herself, in a cage and without another living being to cuddle with, that is something that usually takes a little bit of time to get over as well. She will do it. She was probably miserable in her cage after having wet herself- so she may not ever do that again as well.
Feeding, I feed mine when they are hungry as puppies. I dont follow a certain rule. Tug is still eating several times a day. Some days he eats a lot more than others. But he is never allowed to go hungry for any reason. He seems to be doing ok with this. I dont normally free feed, but since he is a puppy- there is always a bowl full. Once we get past 1 year old- I will put the bowl away and feed morning and nite. The older dogs are enjoying this right now as well- but they dont over eat or take advantage. Find a good vet and realize, she will start growing past the bad times pretty quick. Sorry that this is so long.
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Sillygoose
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 03:03:25 AM »

Potty training is not one of my skills. It took me forever to house break Noah and Annie. Tripper on the other hand is a dream to potty train. 7 accidents since may 27. I'm happy about that. Crate training can be really hard on the nerves, but she will adjust. Tripper howled every night. We ignored him and he goes in on his own now. The morning is a different story though. He has a built in alarm (don't need to set mine anymore) Everyone morning at 5 Am he starts screaming at me to get up. I usually ignore him until he goes out to pee. I don't want to praise him for sreaming. Although it's hard not to kiss him as soon as I see him. 

and of course welcome to the board! Would love to see pics of the cutie.
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Ali
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 05:07:52 AM »

If it's any consolation, I really think the holding it for an hour thing has to be a myth. Koji, my aussie/berner mix is 14 weeks old now. We've had him since 8 weeks, and I have found that I could take him out to pee every 10 minutes, and when I bring him back in he'd pee again anyway. My husband calls him our "bladder with teeth". Maybe I'm being too casual about it, but I just clean up the puddles and take him out as often as I can. As soon as he finishes drinking, eating or playing, especially. I am just assuming that with age comes bladder control. We put him in his crate when we can't watch him directly, which is on and off through the day. Luckily, though, he is not a howler. I think it won't hurt Ellie to howl. Give her a snuggle blankie, pop some ear plugs in your ears, and take your nap. If you cover the top and sides of her crate with a blanket or towel, she may feel a little more secure. She'll get the hang of it though. Hang in there!
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Ali
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 11:41:16 AM »

are you using a scent remover when you clean up the messes?  When i was training my baby we would clean up the mess with a pet enzyme remover, then spray the floor with white vinegar. the vinegar is supposed to act like a territorial thing. plus they dont like the smell. we also crate trained. i cant help you too much with the crying, we got lucky, from the first night she never creid and always sleeps through the night unless her HOD is acting up, then she cries for her medication. and when it comes to the weight, go by what the bag says to feed. and make sure you feed a good brand of food. i feed eukanuba large breed puppy. large breed dogs are very special and need different ratios of things than "normal" dogs. get a food that doesnt have a lot of fillers like purina does, and many of the low cost foods. a good food is going to cost more, but its worth it for a healthy pup, right?
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 03:49:46 AM »

that sounds like max and boog to a T. max is trained to go potty by command and sits with a snap of the fingers. and was the easiest dog to train ive ever had, boog on the other hand has been the opposite. he is also ten weeks old this week. max and boog are biological brothers but from different litters. and the only differences other than personality that have occured to them was we picked boog up from the breeders when he was 7 weeks old and max was 8. boog SERIOUSLY has all been doing all the things ellie has been! it supprised me to read your post! boog has been improoving very well though. i will tell you how his day goes and hopefully you can find something that will help. first of all he is on a schedule that is the same every day, so he knows what to expect whether he likes it or not. it helps to give security. first thing in the morning it's out to go potty. (our entire yard isnt fenced yet so i take the dogs out one at a time right now.) we go outside and make a b line toward the potty area with no stops imbetween (keeping them on a leash prevents them from going potty where you dont want them to) we go outside and he does his potty, we go back in and he eats his first meal of the day, as soon as he's finished with meal it's back out to potty again! i do this 3 times a day with him. it's potty after being let out of kennel (no matter what) and potty after eating (every time) and potty when ever he asks, no matter when it is or how frequently.he is crate training and is in his kennel for a good portion of the day, his kennel by the way is the xxxl size for a fully grown great dane and is way too big for him so ive put a baby gate inside of it to section off an appropriate size for him to stay in secured with zip ties.
  and oh my he is a barker and a yiper! but....after 2 weeks of completely ignoring it it's stopped!horay!!!!!! i find that if i even look at boog he'll start to wine and walk around in a circle in the kennel, so dont even look in the kennel direction while pupper is whining even if it's 3 am and is waking every one up. also what i found to be a great big help is moderation of the water. you can tell if a dog is hydrated by the color of the urine. so give pup the minnimum amount of water so that it's easier for her to potty train. i think that if they drink a ton of water it makes it very difficult and alot harder in the potty training process. clean piddle spots inside the house with a cleaner that uses enzyme action, it eliminates odors that we cant smell but dogs can. and just wait it out. if you are unsure if she is barking to get out of the kennel or barking to go outside, then take her out side and give her a chance, if nothing happens then directly back into the kennel. i never let boog have play time out of the kennel unless he has taken a good potty outside before. and when he doenst go potty when he is outside he goes directly back into the kennel, which lessens the chance that he will go potty inside.i hope this helps. good luck!
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 10:14:25 AM »

How are things going with Ellie now?  Have they improved at all?

You've gotten some great advice on here and I'll probably repeat some of it.  Gunther was tremendously easy to potty train, he got it in about 2 wks.  Keiko was average, but I was gone for long hours (college student) when she was a pup so I'm sure that contributed to her having a few more accidents.  Nigel and Posey were nightmares.  They were potty trained when I got them in Ca.  Then we moved to Mn and they completely forgot everything, and they were 6 mo old at this point!

I crate trained everyone, I've found it makes it so much simpler.  They go out to go potty.  They learn "potty" for #1, and "poops" for #2's.  They go out on a leash.  If they do their business, they get lots of praise and get to come off leash and have a bit of playtime in the yard.  If not, it's back in the kennel.  Also take them out after eating/sleeping/drinking/playing.  All of these can be triggers causing them to want to go.  I've found that outside a kennel they cannot hold their bladders for nearly the amount of time they can inside the kennel.

You can do the leash inside as well.  I've used this method on the ratties, although I've tied them to a table leg next to me.  If they make any movement like they have to go, we move quickly outside.  They quickly learn "do you have to go outside?" or "do you have to potty?" and will let you know as such.

As far as howling goes, Gunther was a howler when we first got him as he wasn't used to being crated.  He normally only howled at night, and it took about 4-5 days for him to quiet down and sleep thru the night (I'm sure our duplex neighbors loved it).

As for feeding, I didn't get Gunther until he was almost 13 wks.  If I remember right, I fed him about 4-5 cups broken into 3 times a day.  He was super skinny when I got him, his collar bone looked so concave.  You kind of have to feel it out as to how much to feed.  I didn't go by the feeding charts on the bag.  I actually found a dane feeding chart online and kind of used that as a guideline to figure out what to start him out on.

Good luck.  Ellie is a beauty.
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2007, 07:15:40 PM »

If he's ten weeks thewn don't worry about his having accidents, it's going to happen.  Just keep taking him out after drinking, eating and off times often.  Praise him like crazy for doing what he's supposed to do.  Make going out a fun experience.  Carrots are a good reward for puppies.  I flunked crate training but I'm not crazy over shaking the penny can at him for howling.  It's meant to be a secure happy place they enjoy going not a scary thing.  He's a baby, he'll get over the howling.  Most danes don't leave mom until 12 weeks so he's a little early to have been seperated.  As far as free feeding, I wouldn't do that either.  Sets up a bad expectaion for when you need to cut him down to two meals a day.  It's true, puppies usually don't bloat so free feeding is not my worry here but getting him used to three feeding a day I think will better serve him.  Good luck, he's just a dane puppy.  Welcome to puppyhood, lol,
jeri
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