Not sure about the breeder...

[mikeypage10]

Right now I am looking for a dane (hurray!)... I'm flip-flopping between an adult and puppy.. still not positive which way I'll go on that one.  I have been looking for about 3 years now and am aware of all of the local places (breeders, rescues, etc.) and have found a breeder that is fairly local and doesn't charge a mortgage downpayment for a pup.  I am getting mixed signals from them and wanted to bounce it off of some other dane folks and see what you think.

Positives - their danes are gorgeous and healthy and very vibrant.  They will refund $200 of the price with proof of spay/neuter (this seems to indicate they are somewhat responsible) and all around seem like very nice people.

Negatives - I asked if the puppies' dam and sire had been screened for the typical dane hereditary health issues: hip dysplasia, hypothyroidism, cataracts, etc.  The response was that both parents are in excellent health and they believe the x-rays to be harmful and that danes don't live for a very long time, so cataracts don't really become an issue.

Does this seem like they are just avoiding these precautions?  Uneducated about the breed?  I'm sure their puppies are probably in great health, but I am a little anxious about bringing home a puppy then gaining thousands of dollars in vet bills and an unhealthy and unhappy pet.  Ideas, thoughts, anyone?

[GYPSY JAZMINE]

That's a toughie for me because samson came from a breeder that didn't do the health testing but she was able to provide me with references from people that bought pups from any previous litters (If I remember correctly there were 3 litters before Sam & then his mom was spayed) from Sam's mom & dad & also was able to see any vet records on the mom & dad...I felt pretty o.k. with that but it remains a fact that only time will tell for sure...I do want to say though that the new pup we are picking up comes with a health & temperment gauruntee & I feel much better about him...Good luck in choosing!

[RedyreRottweilers]

Please keep in mind that doing all the things required to select the best dogs for breeding is expensive.

Dog shows, health testing, environment, proper food, stud fees, breeding expenses, etc is all very expensive.

Someone in my breed once said,

"It is best to only cry once when buying a purebred puppy, when you open your wallet to pay for it".

Purchase price of your puppy should be your LAST consideration. Find a breeder who is doing ALL health testing, and who is screening you hard when you call. Buy only from a breeder who sells you a puppy with a health guarantee and a contract.

Average prices for a good pet quality puppy from a caring responsible breeder is around $800, more for some toy breeds, or others that are difficult to breed or require sections for whelping like Boston Terriers or Bulldogs.

The best place to start looking for your breeder is off the website of the National Club for your breed.

The AKC http://www.akc.org has links to each National club on the left hand sidebar of each breed standard on their site.

So go look up your Dane standard at AKC and find the link to the National club. Contact some breeders in your area. Ask a few questions. You will find out very quickly who the people are that you would like to deal with.

Buying from an experienced caring breeder also gets you a great warranty and built in support. This is part of what you are paying for when you pay all that money for your purebred puppy from a responsible breeder. This breeder will answer ALL your questions, and will know exactly how to help and advise you for the LIFE of your puppy.

Responsible breeders will require the S/N of your pet puppy.

Good luck, if you need more help finding the info on the GDCA website, just let me know, and I'll be happy to help.

Don't rush. Selecting your breeder will be THE most important decision you make in buying your puppy.

[GR8DAME]

I would also need further research. Remember, there are breeders out there who will tell you anything to get the cash in their pocket, then forget that they ever met you. We've had plenty of posts on them, and once that happens, your options are severely limited. I looked almost three years for my first dane, then spent another year researching the breeder and following his dogs on the show circut before I committed. My dane mix was from a rescue, and athough we knew very little about him health and heritage-wise and have no garantee for him, we didn't pay big bucks for him either. Other than one HOD scare (false diagnosis, lousy vet) and some mild hip dysplagia that my new vet says he should outgrow as his joints form my mix is as healthy as can be. What I do miss is the support, as Red said, of a good breeder. But yiu get what you pay for.
Stella

[Anky]

Seriously,  It's better to pay $1,000 - $1,500 for a pet quality Dane pup then get a "Bargain Pup" for $500.  Red is right, quality dogs take quality money.  And that $1,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you'll pay if your pup has health issues that could have been screened for.  (A woman I know spent $600 on her puppy and has spent well over $30,000 in medical bills over the past year and a half). 

Also, and this isn't meant to sound mean so PLEASE don't take it that way.  Danes are one of the most expensive dogs to own because of their size.  Medically evertyhing is done by weight, vaccinations, medications, even surgeries.  Bigger collars, bowls, toys, the only crate really suited for a Dane is the Midwest Collosal (Or Model # 99) and I've never seen one go for less than $200.  Not to mention that Danes need special consideration in regards to their food (ie Expensive), not to mention more of it.  Something that I've seen said time and time again, and unfortunately seen proved numerous times, is that if you can't afford a quality puppy, you usually can't afford to keep the dog. 

Also, Gyspy said that Samson's parents weren't health tested.  If I remember correctly his parents were working dogs.  Many times working dog breeders don't health test their dogs, but honestly DANES DON'T WORK!  In my opinion there should be no excuse a Dane breeder could give for not showing and health testing their dogs.  My Setter is a field type, as such she can't be shown, but her father has multiple field trial championships, and her mother is a hunting dog, along with ranking high in the local standings.    Because Dane's can't prove themselves like that, showing is, in my opinion, the only way to prove that they're worthy of breeding.

The decision is yours, but I would stay away from this breeder.  If you're interested you can PM me and I can give you a ton of links for tips on buying a Dane pup.

Ang

[shangrila]

I think that you should ask lots of questions, get references from other people who had boughten puppies from this breeder, and go with what is in your heart.

One thing I think that you should keep in mind: people will tell you that it costs a lot of money to ensure good breeding, but don't let that make you think that paying out the teeth with ensure you are dealing with a good breeder. I paide over a thousand dollars for my saint, asked all sorts of questions, spoke to a former customer, saw the parent dogs, and thought it was worth the money since I was getting a great puppy. Well I love my Zoey with all my heart but the things I have learned after the fact about the breeder and the health situation of her dogs makes my skin crawl. I would take a 'cheap' but honest breeder over an expensive but secretly evil one any day.

[RedyreRottweilers]

an excellent post, Shangrilarcadi a. (i love your handle, by the way).

EXPENSIVE does NOT guarantee quality.

Research your breeder. How much time and research do you put into buying a car? It usually won't last nearly as long as your dog usually.

Ask questions.

Go to the source, the National breed club.

Take your time. Joining some breed specific mailing lists is a good idea, you can then sort of "get to know" people. You'll see show brags, litter listings, working brags, etc. and you can get a general feeling for who is who, and who you might want to approach for a puppy.

I know plenty of people who charge high dollar for puppies that also do health testing that I would NEVER recommend.

As always,

Caveat Emptor.

[mastiffmommy]

First of all, congrats on choosing a dane, they are wonderful dogs. Second the fact that you ask the question in the first place, tells me that you have an uneasy feeling and one thing I have learned throughout all the years I have had dogs is, once you have a feeling like that, dont ever ignore it.

If you want to really research a breeder, there are lots of things you can do. To begin with a breeder who says, my dogs are in great health and we dont find it necessary to test, well how can they know if the tests are not done....... So personally I would not want to buy a puppy from a breeder that could not show me test results of both parents and pref. the grandparents too, or offsprings from the sire and dam in earlier breedings if there are earlier litters.

Also contact AKC and the breed clubs, see how many litters and puppies they have registered and see if they are honest about that detail. Contact AKC's and the breed clubs ethical boards and see if they have any complaints, I would even check with BBB in that area to see if anyone have a complaint against them there. Ask for the vet they have, call the vet and ask for references, a responsible breeder should provide you with certain things. A list of references, can be other breeders, puppy buyers (you definately want to talk to them) their vet. Also you should be able to pre read the contract. Also call the breeder referal for the danes. See if this breeder is on the list if not, ask why.

Go in on the website and check if the answers you might get are correct and the ones that are on the site where you can see if they have health certs, and what all the x-rays have shown.

If you dont know the ethical rules for the danes, you can read about them by looking up the breed from AKC's website and then go to danes and breeder ref's and usually the different breeds have the ethical rules there too. Or call a contact person, most breeds have a contact person for ethical rules for that specific breed.

Not that a price is a guarantee, not at all. BUT if you turn that issue around, mostly the very good and experienced breeder with many yeard of breeding, good lines and good pedigrees, will charge you more for the puppies. NO breeder I know of that has wonderful blood lines, good results in competing or/and showing and is experienced and is responsible and give the dogs the very best. Would sell a dane puppy for 800 dollars, not even a pet quality one, unless it was colored the wrong way, had crocked legs or any other severe fault. But that very rarely happens with breeders like that. A dane with good lines and from an experienced breeder that is a BREEDER and not a "puppy producer" would probably charge you at least 1500 dollars for a pet quality dane. A show and breed quality dog around 2500.

I dont know if this was any help, but just my personal opinion, a breeder who dont test is not a responsible breeder. If you dont test, how can you know you dont breed on both hip/elbow, eye and cardiac problems, you cant......

Good Luck with finding a puppy or first a breeder I guess. If you have any other questions dont hesitate to ask.

Marit

[mikeypage10]

I haven't had access to this site since I posted last night.  After just now logging on I did a great big "Wow!" after seeing the replies spanned two pages.  This is definitely the place I need to be asking questions like this.

Earlier today I had a discussion with the "breeder" and have decided not to go with them at all.  For me, the key thing about them was their reluctance to do an x-ray for hip dysplasia.  They claimed it was harmful.. which yes, it IS a small amount of radiation, but just as necessary as an x-ray to check for a broken bone, right?  In that case I don't think anyone would hesitate.  Anyway, the more I talked to them, the more it seemed like they were trying to cover up their irresponsibili ty.  After this I don't think anything else could really change my mind.

Thank you SO much everyone for your wonderful advice and suggestions.  There were resources to breeder research that I had not thought of and will be helpful in the future.  Not to mention other things to keep in mind.  There is a lot more to this than driving down to the pet store and pointing at the first cute pup you see.  :-)  If it were so easy! 

I'm at a bit of a personal crossroads right now.  I have difficulty justifying $1200 for a puppy from a breeder when there are plenty of sheltered pups and adults needing homes, you know?  But on the other hand, I really want a great dane.  Tho, they have the potential for so many health problems as I'm find out that unless I for the $1200 kind, I may just be asking for trouble.

You guys are great, thanks again for your knowledge, kindness, and support!

[RedyreRottweilers]

You make every effort however useless and fruitless to educate and lead people in the right direction worthwhile.

Let us know if and when you have any questions.

We will all be delighted to help if we can. Many nice pets are available through Great Dane rescues, and this may be a viable alternative for you. You could likely get a young dog that could be exrayed for hip and elbow issues, and whose size, temperament etc is pretty much what you see is what you get.

You have options, and I bet you really enjoy exploring them, altho some of the decisions may be nerve wracking and heart ( maybe even wallet ) wrenching.



Welcome to the most wonderful exhilarating heady way to fall in love I know of. There is absolutely NOTHING like a puppy search. Make it last, you will find the dog or the breeder that is the perfect fit, I guarantee you.

And I will just leave you with a poem that is one of my all time favorites, and celebrates both that first blush of new love with a new puppy, and the bittersweet ending to a long lived companion's life.

Enjoy...

THE POWER OF THE DOG

There is sorrow enough in the natural way
 From men and women to fill our day;
But when we are certain of sorrow in store,
Why do we always arrange for more?
Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.

Buy a pup and your money will buy
Love unflinching that cannot lie--
Perfect passion and worship fed
By a kick in the ribs or a pat on the head.
Nevertheless it is hardly fair
To risk your heart for a dog to tear.

When the fourteen years which Nature permits
Are closing in asthma, or tumour, or fits,
And the vet's unspoken prescription runs
To lethal chambers or loaded guns,
Then you will find--it's your own affair
But . . . you've given your heart to a dog to tear.

When the body that lived at your single will
When the whimper of welcome is stilled (how still!)
When the spirit that answered your every mood
Is gone wherever it goes--for good,
You will discover how much you care,
And will give your heart to a dog to tear!

We've sorrow enough in the natural way,
When it comes to burying Christian clay.
Our loves are not given, but only lent,
At compound interest of cent per cent. T
hough it is not always the case, I believe,
That the longer we've kept 'em,
the more do we grieve:
For, when debts are payable, right or wrong,
 A short-time loan is as bad as a long
So why in Heaven (before we are there!)
Should we give our hearts to a dog to tear?

---Rudyard Kipling

[GYPSY JAZMINE]

Oh Red!...Ty for posting that!...I really enjoyed it!...I think when I go to the library tomorrow I'll look up some more Kipling...My favorite poet is probably Robert Frost.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Gypsy, I used that poem in the memorial for my old girl.

She will be gone 4  years this November, and I could still cry every day.

[GYPSY JAZMINE]

She was a beautiful girl Red...My condolances... I know how you feel...We have a a beautiful animal cemetary here that my husband made me & 2 of our guinea pig girls & a kitten that never had a chance rest there...It is right in my back yard & I planted wild flowers to cover the whole ground there...I decorate it with memorial placks & animal angel figures...One day all of my fur babies will rest there...I go out every day & talk to the ones that now live only in my heart & at The Bridge.

[Icerotti]

Red that was beautiful. I am still wiping the tears.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Of course you will indulge me with a couple more photos of her, right?




Winning Best in Veteran Sweepstakes at 11.5 years old at the American Rottweiler Club Regional Specialty in Raleigh, NC. Sept, 01. She was dead Nov. 11 same year.


And this is how she did EVERYTHING.