HELP!!!! My Mastiff Puppy is AGGRESSIVE!!

[AudgePadge]

Hi Everyone, I've had Roscoe for a little over a week...and in the last 2-3 days, I've noticed some aggression... Biting, snarling when being fed, when being put on his back, when being yelled at...Every little thing he barks back or snarls.

 We are very good to him, sleeps on his own bed in our bedroom, routine feeding schedule, hours of playtime, no walks yet...not done with all his vaccines, huge yard to play, another dog to play with him... I'm wondering if we're giving him too much freedom?

Do any of the other male pups have aggression problems? For not even 3months yet, I'm worried that when he gains 160lbs, he might snap like he's been doing and it will be too late.   I've tried to hold him down, put him on his back, he just spins around and bites. All that loose skin he can maneuver like crazy...
Please let me know what you think, and what I should do?

 I really can't have an aggressive dog, he bit my 2 year old niece today too. She's okay, but she's terrified of him now...which makes me so sad... PLEASE any help before this gets out of hand!

[navarre1316]

Navarre used to growl at me when I would come near him and he was eating and he was about 3mths old.  So, he had to eat with his bowl in my lap (and sometimes he would have to eat out of my hand) and every once in awhile I would pet him while he was eating; then, after he got the hang of that, I would put my hand in his bowl and he would have to eat around it; then, after he got the hang of that, I would move my hand in his bowl while he was eating.  I did each thing in stages, so it took awhile but as he got older anybody could walk up to him while he was eating and take his food or move it or whatever.

As to the putting him on his back; some people don't think that is a necessary thing to do and that it instills fear rather than respect, I did something like this to Navarre also.  I didn't know about it however until he was already pretty large!!!!  So he would be on his side (I don't think putting them totally on their back is necessary) and I would hold him there until he was still for about 5-10min (I'd be watching tv!).  Anyway, since he is still rather young maybe after playtime and when he's already tired and laying down go over and lay next to him, place your hand or part of your body over him and if he tries to get up, don't let him.  I know the wrinkly skin is a hinderance, but he cannot win if that is the game you decide to play.

And as always....NILF!!!!  Basically, nothing in life is free.  He gets nothin; no treat, food, play, NOTHING until he does something that you tell him to do.  This is a great way to start teaching the basic commands also!!!  I think he'll probably start doing a bit better when he can start socializing too and try to get him into an obedience class as soon as his shots are done.

There are others on this board with more experience than me and they will give you great advice!!  Don't give up on him yet!!!  He's still young and it sounds like he has some personality, you just have to get ahold of it!!!  He's probably going to be a great dog!!

[brooklily]

Hi. Im certainly not a professional and im sure the dog trainers and such will post later on with more prof. advice, but dont be too nervous yet. When I first brought Brooklily home noone had taught her how hard to bite (or not bite).Brooklily's beginning life was quite sucky.She was already six months or so and could really hurt. She would have your hand in her mouth all soft and then, crunch, a nice puncture wound  and a second later lots of blood.  I started making a sort of high pitched baby yelp on purpose everytime she bit too hard.And lo and behold she would stop. pull away. and look at me like " oooo sorry , i dint know that hurt ." She has completely stopped biting now. Welllllllll maybe sometimes your jacket while playing hard outside  Brooklily also did the snarl and growl when i rolled her over during play, so i just did it all the time and now,she loves to wiggle and make noises but she is just a vocal growler and when wrestling is over and all is calm, she  gladly rolls upside down for belly rubs from anyone willing to give them. She has learned when to play gentle with my grandmother and when to kick it up a bit with my big guy friends. The fact your new pup is doing this also with food seem more serious. But im sure someone here can help with ideas for that.  I hope its just puppy stuff that can be dealt with. Good luck and much luv to your cute as anything new pup.  Brooklily's mum

[MagicM3]

I totally agree with what everyone has said great advise
Another thing you can try along with NILIF since you said you have a large yard..there is nothing wrong with walks in the yard as long as you are the leader..
with the correct collar and leash and following you it is a great time to work on leash walking with no distractions or even if there are some it is a safe place for him to learn what you want and expect...

Tricia and the fur kids

[brooklily]

Look at that! while I was writing my post someone was already posting about the food .People here are soooo helpful.  great place!

[lorim2]

First I would like to know the circumstance of the bite? Were they playing or did he just bite her...At 3 months old, I know how puppies can be...With Marley, we had him in puppy obedience class at 10 weeks old.  He did wonderful and not only did it teach him, it taught us alot about him.  As far as the food thing I agree with the other post about making him eat when you let him.  Possibly out of your lap or your hand.  Let us know how its going but I wouldnt be to worried yet.  Marley is now a 200lb little Prince whose place in our pack is third right behind the two Princess Chihuahuas and he knows it!

[Nicole]

Hmm...he bites and snarls when he's being flipped on his back and yelled at? Does that seem like a reasonable response to you, because it does to me.

Sorry for my directness, but it sounds like you are dealing with a dog that isn't going to take well to yelling and rolling. Which, many dogs won't. Some dogs will sort of tolerate it, but its never an effective technique.

How young was he when he was taken from the litter? It sounds like he is missing out on some basic social skills that he should have gotten from his littermates. He probably also sees your daughter as another pup.

As others mentioned, do the NILIF. Be CONSISTENT with it. Don't give him ANYthing until he's sat or something. Also, basic obedience is an absolute must.

DO NOT YELL OR ROLL THE POOR BABY! You are teaching him that you are scary. That is what he is responding to.

[maxsmom]

It sounds more like a defense mechanism than true aggression to me.  If I tried to roll Cody on his back, very gently, to check his tummy and groin area for bumps, anything, he used to respond by struggling like crazy to get away and then growling or snapping, if I didn't stop, which I couldn't.  I started it and had to slowly get myself out of the situation, without letting him win.  Don't ever put yourself in a position of being forced to let him win something.  BUT, when he reacted like this, his eyes were rolling, showing the whites, and he was just trying to get away.  He had a truly horrible life, prior to rescue.  I learned, if I needed to check his groin or tummy, wait until he was laying on his side (which he didn't do for the first 6 - 8 months we had him), stroke him, talk to him and lift his legs to see the area I needed to see.  Some dogs don't respond well to being rolled and I would never do it with mine.  In play, they will roll around, all but Cody, but I would never roll them.  I can lay on them, lean over their shoulders and reach down and hug/hold them.  For you to be dominant, does not mean you must be able to physically dominate them.  I could not physically dominate any of mine.  Jake is the lightest at 100lbs., only 5 lbs. less than I weigh, but he is much, much stronger.  They obey and respect me because I have earned it.  I provide all the wonderful things in their lives and they know it.  NILF sounds like a good way to establish that.  I don't use it, but a lot of people have great success with it. I would not be concerned about aggression in a puppy, until I had worked with that dog and given them a chance to learn my rules and my way.  Just relax and start trying other things.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  Good luck
Kathy

[AudgePadge]

Hi Everyone,

First, I want to thank everyone for your input and kind words, I'm going to start trying some new things today...By the way, this aggression thing just started 2-3 days ago...

Just to answer some questions, he was 10 weeks old when I got him, I've had him for over a week.

He bit my niece out of no-where.  She was sitting on the couch, watching TV and he leaped on the couch and bit her arm, all the while, snarling and growling.  I had to take the sweater off her because he wouldnt let go...then I put him in the kennel in the yard.

I used to work in a dog training company, but I've worked specifically with Military K-9 training units.  So I guess, my obedience tactics are a little harsh or maybe just different? I suppose I'm used to yelling sharp commands that will be obeyed from a distance...It's been awhile since I've had to train a house dog.

  It's not just "putting on his back" (I actually can't get that far..just on his side) that makes him snarl, its when he's just laying on his side...and I come over and pet him he starts giving me "the eye" and will snap up and try to bite me.

As for NILIF, he acts like he doesn't need anything.  He knows to sit and stay already...but he doesnt seem to care if he gets a treat or praise.  I have a large kennel in the backyard complete with raised deck, running water and thousands of toys...when I put him in the kennel, he wails like he's dying...and he'll keep at it for at least an hour!

If I ignore him, he barks.  If I try to take something away, he barks...

He's also enrolled in puppy kindergarten, it starts March 26.  So until then, I guess I'll have to be a little more gentle, and keep my niece away for awhile.

I'm going to start being a little more quiet, maybe he'll pipe down too. 

Any other suggestions would be helpful.  Thanks for all your advice, I'll be putting it into affect today!

Audrey

[London_Pyr_Lover]

  It's not just "putting on his back" (I actually can't get that far..just on his side) that makes him snarl, its when he's just laying on his side...and I come over and pet him he starts giving me "the eye" and will snap up and try to bite me.

That almost sounds to me like he might be in a bit of pain.  Have you had him checked over by a vet?  That I think would be one of my first stops.  As for with the Niece, have her work with the puppy as well doing NILIF, that could help her get past her fears of him and have him respect her as higher in the totem pole too.  If I haven't said so already, welcome to the board!  And I hope that everything works out soon!   

[AudgePadge]

We just came back from the vet on Sunday, he got a clean bill of health.

I half-way think he's being a little dramatic...bec ause when he's rough housing with Monty...no crying, no pain, no noise.. but when he bumps into my leg, gets put outside, or his ball gets taken away...he's dying.

I'll try to show my niece that he can be a good dog too.

Thanks for all your help!  I'll keep you posted on his progress.

[brooklily]

ooooo I guess alot of people are not exactly lovin the roll.  .But I have to say , if you can do it in a playful manner, your pup can learn to trust you and that you will never hurt him .Brooklily really didnt like to be on her back when i got her, so we made it fun. Brooklily doesnt get to pick what I do, or where I touch. She would have been rolling me over if I had let her have the choice in the beginning lol. Is it possible that we are talking about different things? Others seem to be referring to a sort of disiplinary tactic, like "you will roll over cause you were naughty"   That is a completly different issue. Im not sure now why you were using the roll. But if it is for trust , love and ,"I can do what i want ,im your mum, and IM in charge", then I have found it really helpful.To each thier own. Whatever keeps your pup healthy and happy. Good luck and keep us posted. I would say with classes and direction this will be a great puppy. He is soooooooooo cute, and I bet he is smart , because he is already figuring out ways to get what he wants. haha.

[Bubbalove]

Two things that others have mentioned that I have lived by are 1- NILIF and 2- the crate.  I swear, I don't know what I would have done without them during all of Kana's childhood/adolescence! 
About the "roll".  I am no expert...BUT, we used a variation of this with our big boy.  He really DID need a physical timeout at times when he got the puppy rage.  It was either him or me at times.  I had to show him not only by the consistent NILIF and show of non-physical dominance that I was most definitely NOT going to be bullied. 

I found that not talking to him at all while this was going on was effective.  I simply got him to his belly and with partial weight on him (NOT TO HURT HIM) would force him to be still (ie: submit).  I too, would watch TV while doing this or if we were in the back yard I would just be still and quiet.  Once in that position, he would "settle".  Generally, I would slowly take the weight off and finally give him the "you're free" command. 
It is important NOT to do this when you are overly emotional/angry, though.  It then could be taken as meeting his aggression with aggression and that always turns out badly. 
Another thing I did which was effective was just leaving the room and leaving Kana by himself (even if it meant sacrificing my couch or bookbag while I was gone).  Much of his biting/attacking was attention seeking-gone-crazy so when I no longer gave him that attention, he quickly got bored and stopped. 
I really agree with many of the other options, but just thought I would give my 2 cents!
Take care & good luck! 

[brooklily]

oh boy puppies sound like alot of work!But fun squishy lovable work. I have never had a baby puppy. Brooklily was my youngest at 6 months. She came along with a boat load of issues at even that age.hrmph .Time, patience, and love seem to work wonders!  Think of how great that you can have your awesome baby from the beginning without other humans screwing him up . I guess i am never leaving this site. There is such great help and advice ( and pictures) here. Or on the other hand , maybe I should wipe this out of my favs because this place , with puppies like Roscoe, makes me want a puppy.      Have     to      stop    myself     . lol

[mynameislola]

This board rocks.  I felt bad yesterday after I wrote a huge answer to this post and then deleted it all on the theory that I needed to take a deep breath and consolidate my reply.  Basically, it came down to this.

As a trainer I have never seen anyone do the roll correctly unless they were trained by a trainer.  The roll was brought to the public view in a dog training book back in 1976.  Since so many dogs have been injured by their owners since then, the authors of the book, the Monks of New Skete, have totally changed their views on the topic and now suggest it never be used.  Even then they used it only as a last resort with dogs whose aggression issues made them dangerous.

Somehow that all got developed over the decades since the book got published into holding the dog down till it stops struggling.  Originally, the hold lasted only until eye contact was broken by the dog, but I have not seen any reference here to the importance of eye contact. 

IMO the technique of holding till no resistance was borrowed from a technique used in behavioral therapy with children.  It is no longer used after therapist were convicted of crushing and suffocating a child to death.  The biophysical response in a dog to being held like that for minutes at a time is similar to shock after trauma.

On yelling at the pup, yelling is a technique used by trainers to build aggression in dogs.  Unless you want an attack dog, commands given in a calm, clear, low tone of voice will get a better response from the dog unless it is deaf or hard of hearing.