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Author Topic: puppy acts starving - feeding raw diet  (Read 5124 times)
MarleyPyr
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« on: August 24, 2008, 01:27:30 PM »

Curious.. my 5 month old berner acts like she is STARVING all the time. I feed raw... three times a day - trying to ween to two times a day.
I am feeding about 1.5 - 2lbs daily...
any suggestings or comments about what others have experienced? Is this not enough?
thanks
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Carolyn
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 02:17:51 PM »

you are suppose to feed 2-4% of the dogs supposed full body growth...not what they weigh now.  The pup prob. is starving for food.  Once he finishes growing he should have 1% of his adult body weight. 
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AltDeutsche
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 03:23:10 AM »

We feed the pups 800-950g a day. 800 for my female and 950g for my males. They are fed twice a day and gets snacks the rest of the time. Snacks are training treats, recreational bones and maybe a pig ear.
I was told to feed them 1.75% to 3% depending on activity level when adults. And to feed them 2% of their anticipated adult weight as a puppy.

Have you recently dewormed your berner? Or ruled out worms in any way?
What are your exact ratios? And what are your extras?
Are your weighing her weekly or every two weeks to assess her growth?
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sc.trojans
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 12:39:57 PM »

Your puppy likely is starving.  As Holly said, but it bears repeating - it is important to meet the needs of your dog based on her weight, energy requirements, and activity level.

In the raw world, it has become the norm to say feed x% - but this is very erroneous and most dogs don't necessarily do well or fit with a norm %.  It is no more valid for me to say I eat x Lbs. of food a day so you should too Smiley  Nonetheless, commercial raw food providers tell you to feed 5-6% of body weight per day for growing puppies - usually amounting to about 3 lbs. of food a day based on meat, bone, and produce.  I can tell you that I have never fed a puppy this age LESS than 3 lbs a day - based on activity level and energy requirements.

So since you didn't say WHAT you are feeding - it is hard to assess.  1 lb. of beef is very different in calories, fat and protein than 1 lb. of green beans so WHAT you are feeding and the quantity of those ingredients is what matters here.  Many raw feeders, especially prey model, feed very high fat diets - so this will dictate less food (to meet the same amount of calories).  The more produce, and non fat items comprise the diet, the more food needed (to meet required calories).

To help, I am guessing your pup is about 45 lbs. give or take?  Let us know.  If so, a 5 month old, 45 lb Berner requires approximately 2,800 calories per day and you couldn't be any where close to that in the quantity of food you're feeding.  It is critical not to grow these dogs too fast (provide too many calories) so you want to strive for 2 lbs. per week - they will hit two big growth spurts at about 4 month and again between 8-9 and may grow a little more but if you are hitting more than 3 lbs. per week, slow down as you are growing her too fast.

If your pup is gaining 2 lbs. per week, you can feel her ribs, but not the sides of her spine on her back - she is good.  If you can feel her spine and hip bones too prominately, she is underfed.

The NRC sets the recommended allowances for dogs and cats and states that a growing puppy after 14 weeks of age has the following RAs based on kg weight (rather than lbs.):

Calcium (mg)   680
Phosphorus (mg)   680
Magnesium (mg)   27.4
Sodium (mg)   100
Potassium (mg)   300
Chloride (mg)   200
Iron (mg)   6.1
Copper (mg)   0.76
Zinc (mg)   6.84
Manganese (mg)   0.38
Selenium (ug) to (mcg)   25.1
Iodine (ug) to (mcg)   61

A  (RE)   105
E (mg)   2.1
K (mg)   0.11
Thiamin (mg)   0.096
Riboflavin (mg)   0.37
Pyridoxine (mg) B6   0.1
Niacin (mg)   1.18
Pantothenic Acid (mg)   1.04
Folic Acid (ug)   18.8
Choline (mg)   118
Cholecalcifero l (ug)  D   0.96
Cobalimin (ug) B12   2.4

Arginine (mg)   460
Histidine (mg)   170
Isoleucine (mg)   350
Methionine (mg)   180
Cystine (mg)   370
Leucine (mg)   570
Lysine (mg)   490
Phenylalanine (mg)   350
Phenylalanine & Tyrosine (mg)   700
Threonine (mg)   440
Tryptophan (mg)   130
Valine (mg)   390


This means that a 5 month old, 45 lb. puppy requires more than 6,500 mg of calcium and phosphorus and almost 2,900 mg of potassium for example.  This is significantly more than she will require as an adult and is at its peak about now - so it is critical to ensure you are meeting her needs for proper development.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 12:42:07 PM by sc.trojans » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 01:13:35 PM »

When Lily was 5 months and about 50 lbs I was feeding her 3-3.5 lbs a day. She was always pretty lean and ate like a horse until about 9 months  Roll Eyes Smiley
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MarleyPyr
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 08:30:53 PM »

wow..thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail..I appreciate it. I am feeding a premade raw pattie from a breeder that started making/selling her raw food she has been feeding her danes. It has all the rmb and veggies, meats, suppliments etc that raw diet should have - i am pretty confident in that. My berner is about 42lbs this week at 5months and 1 week old. She doesn't feel skinny so that is good. The main reason I went raw is to allow her to grow in a slow manner given she is a large breed - as well as all the other benefits. I think I will increase her intake up to 3 - 3.5 pounds for awhile and see how she continues to grow. I would rather her to be leaner than too heavey but I also don't want to comprimise any part of her growing!

oh .. and I give her lots of cookies.. cause she is just so cute!
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Carolyn
1 Great Pyr 2yrs
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sc.trojans
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 02:33:32 PM »

Given your description then, it doesn't sound like you need to drastically increase the food intake - certainly not double it.  Feed 2-2.5 lbs. daily and see how she does.

If the food does not come with a lab assay - how many calories, protein level etc. it is tough to judge and no way to know if it contains everything she needs in the right quantities.  Just keep that in mind.  This is why I always recommend a commercial product that is balanced and tested - with a lab assay for growing puppies.

Just for exmaple:  Primal Raw, Beef formula contains 1214 calories per lb. - so approx. 2.5 lbs of this food would be right for your pup:

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/canine/mixes/canineBeef.htm

HOWEVER: its lab assay shows you that it is not balanced for a growing pup and should not comprise 100% of the diet given its limited ingredients - therefore more bones/calcium and other foods are needed. So you would feed less of this, and augment with other whole foods.

This is USUALLY the case - few commercial foods are right for growing pups as they are designed for adults dogs, who need HALF the calcium and less of other nutrients.

Constrast that product with another complete Primal product:
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/canine/formulas/canineBeef.htm

This one CAN meet the needs of a large breed pup and shows all of the nutrient levels - 2.5 lbs. of this would largely meet the need.

Just remember that the goal is not a satiated puppy that walks away and lies down with a paw on her belly Smiley  Slightly hungry, but not acting starving and licking all of the counters is the goal.

Good luck!

« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 02:39:45 PM by sc.trojans » Logged

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