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Author Topic: Oh no. Tucker's well-puppy check up = hubby & I arguing about diet. Stupid vet.  (Read 6610 times)
Berner_Mom
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« on: June 14, 2009, 01:32:16 AM »

Ok first of all- no offense to anyone who IS a veterinarian, or who KNOWS a veterinarian!

Tucker is 15 months old, and we needed to take him to the vet to get his boosters, and we wanted to get him weighed, generally get checked out to make sure he's grown (growing) properly etc...

Of course, first question "What are you feeding him?" is what comes out of vet's mouth.

Brent and I had discussed it prior to going to the appointment, because I knew of course the vet was going to lecture us on feeding raw etc... and tell us of all the bad, scary stuff that WILL happen to Tucker because of our horrible food choices for him etc....  And I told Brent to let me do the talking (because it was me who did all the timely, extensive research on feeding raw in the first place) and he agreed.

Until we actually got in the exam room with Dr. B.  Of course, she lectured us for about 20 minutes, not letting me get a word in edgewise to defend my decision.  Not only did she lecture on the raw part of Tucker's diet, but she lectured on how BAD Orijens kibble was (which Tucker gets for breakfast) because its basically raw food in pellet form!

AND she even stated that because she knows Tucker has been on a raw food diet, that she can refuse him service in her vet clinic because of the potentially HUGE risks to other animals and even to staff!

  Then- Brent looks at me, this horrific look on his face (and I thought "oh no! she got to him!") and in front of Dr. B. he exclaims he can't believe I never told him all the bad stuff about raw, that he can't believe I'd risk our puppy, our health, the health of our cats, heck even the health of the neighborhood (!) like this, that he's so disappointed in me etc...  It was pretty humiliating, but at the same time infuriated me because I had warned him the vet would do this!!

And then to Dr. B he states we will be changing Tucker's diet immediately, doing everything she recommended (like throwing out his food bowls, toys- ANYTHING that may have contacted his mouth after he ate raw...oh please) and he apologizes for getting wrapped up in the raw food trend, it won't happen again... and what food would she recommend we switch to?  What is the BEST out there? What does she feed her two dogs?

Of course, surprise surprise... Dr. B. recommends the Hills Prescription D/D food, that (conveniently) she sells in her office- the ONLY food she sells in her office.  We leave the vet office (Tucker is in great health otherwise, though Dr. B. says he's about 6lbs overweight, but HELLO!  He's still only 15 months old, and still growing, right?) with me feeling a little shell-shocked at my husband's abandonment of everything we've discussed before about Tucker's diet, and I'm also at the same time furious with him!!  Especially when he buys a bag of Salmon and potato Hills D/D food to take with us!  ARGH!

Of course, once we were in the truck on the way home, our arguement began and got pretty dramatic.  Brent is set on keeping Tucker now on the Hills food, he seems to have blocked out how much the raw food diet has worked for Tucker, how healthy he's become, how his skin has stopped itching, his bald patches went away etc...

It looks like I've got my work cut out for me again.  I'm going to research this Hills stuff and see what I can find to dispute the vets claims. 

Have any of you had vet experiences like this?  How bad is Prescription Hills D/D food anyway?

Thanks for listening to me vent!
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Sarah
Mom to daughter, McKenna,
With us for 40 weeks, 1 day
Silently Born Into Eternity
on May 27, 2007

Mom to fur-kids:
Tucker, 16 months, BMD
Echo, 6 years, Siamese
Simba, 2 years, Orange Tabby
Mom to one reptile-teenager,
Trevor, 16 years, red-eared slider turtle
patrick
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 03:41:31 AM »

Change vets  Although my vet also is not a fan of raw he respects my decision as my dogs are always in wonderful health.  Even though he sells dog food as well never once has he recommended I buy it
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marinafb
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 03:44:32 AM »

This food is sold through the vet and promoted by the vet that is why they want you to buy it . Not only that it is crap food check out the ingredients Orjen has top of the line ingredients stick to what works ! Marina


Have any of you had vet experiences like this?  How bad is Prescription Hills D/D food anyway?
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Berner_Mom
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 04:57:56 AM »

My berner breeder swears by orijens as it is a very good food.  Hill's is a crap food and has a lot of allergens so if your puppy was already having problems you'll have a hard time with it.  I second the switch vets any vet who stirs up that much trouble over your dog's diet choice to switch a good diet (that is obviously working) to a crap diet just for profit is not a vet I'd want my dog seeing. Maybe you could look into another quality kibble until you can talk hubby back into raw if that's what you'd like to keep feeding just until you have time to rediscuss it with a level head. Maybe stick with just the Orijen for now?

If you want ammo for why Orijen is good go to dogfoodanalysi s.com as it's one of the few 6 star foods. Out of curiosity which are you feeding your guy?

ARGH!  I am so frustrated right now.  We feed Tucker Orijens by alternating the adult formula (teal & black bag) with the 6-fish formula (light blue and black bag).  So we'd feed one whole bag of one, then switch to other flavor, then back etc...

I absolutely know that Dr. B is telling us to feed Hills Prescription because she gets paid to sell their food, but getting hubby to understand that right now is pretty much impossible.  He is running scared right now, for lack of a better term, from anything I'm suggesting, or even from really talking about it, because he's convinced the vet is right.

I've been researching on internet, and found this analysis of Hills Prescrip. D/D.....This is the one hubby bought.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1064&cat=all

OMG! We are going to have to switch vets, because this is ridiculous.  Hills is CRAP, plain CRAP food.

The main concern of the vet (not that I really care) was the amount of protein Tucker is eating, because Orijens is 70% protein (plus then we were feeding raw on top of that) so my question now- what is the RIGHT amount of protein content we should be looking for?  Personally I see no problems with keeping him on Orijen (that's what he was being fed when we got him) but I'd be willing to try switching to Evo large bites (I've heard good things about that, plus its grain free) or something if hubby is dead set against Orijens now.

Oh my word.
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Sarah
Mom to daughter, McKenna,
With us for 40 weeks, 1 day
Silently Born Into Eternity
on May 27, 2007

Mom to fur-kids:
Tucker, 16 months, BMD
Echo, 6 years, Siamese
Simba, 2 years, Orange Tabby
Mom to one reptile-teenager,
Trevor, 16 years, red-eared slider turtle
chaos270
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 05:32:26 AM »

My berner breeder swears by orijens as it is a very good food.  Hill's is a crap food and has a lot of allergens so if your puppy was already having problems you'll have a hard time with it.  I second the switch vets any vet who stirs up that much trouble over your dog's diet choice to switch a good diet (that is obviously working) to a crap diet just for profit is not a vet I'd want my dog seeing. Maybe you could look into another quality kibble until you can talk hubby back into raw if that's what you'd like to keep feeding just until you have time to rediscuss it with a level head. Maybe stick with just the Orijen for now?

If you want ammo for why Orijen is good go to dogfoodanalysi s.com as it's one of the few 6 star foods. Out of curiosity which are you feeding your guy?

ARGH!  I am so frustrated right now.  We feed Tucker Orijens by alternating the adult formula (teal & black bag) with the 6-fish formula (light blue and black bag).  So we'd feed one whole bag of one, then switch to other flavor, then back etc...

I absolutely know that Dr. B is telling us to feed Hills Prescription because she gets paid to sell their food, but getting hubby to understand that right now is pretty much impossible.  He is running scared right now, for lack of a better term, from anything I'm suggesting, or even from really talking about it, because he's convinced the vet is right.

I've been researching on internet, and found this analysis of Hills Prescrip. D/D.....This is the one hubby bought.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1064&cat=all

OMG! We are going to have to switch vets, because this is ridiculous.  Hills is CRAP, plain CRAP food.

The main concern of the vet (not that I really care) was the amount of protein Tucker is eating, because Orijens is 70% protein (plus then we were feeding raw on top of that) so my question now- what is the RIGHT amount of protein content we should be looking for?  Personally I see no problems with keeping him on Orijen (that's what he was being fed when we got him) but I'd be willing to try switching to Evo large bites (I've heard good things about that, plus its grain free) or something if hubby is dead set against Orijens now.

Oh my word.

Orijen is very high protien that's why I'm leery of feeding it to my guy when I get him.  The protiens range I've heard as being good for large/giant breed puppies is in the 20-30% range but that's to ensure slow growth.  If he's not having any growth issues like pano or growing too fast I wouldn't be too concerned about the protein cause he'd be showing signs of trouble by now. One vet in the practice I go to says protien is important the other said the calcium to phosphorus ratio is more important I think max is 2:1 but you should check that out.
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 06:06:49 AM »

Please don't use Hill's D/D. Berner's have so many health issues, and some can be greatly helped by a species appropriate diet.

Trust me look for a new vet!!!! Do your research first, to find one that isn't anti raw and then get hubby to come along. Our vet sells Hill's and Medi-cal. And do know what she said when I told her that we feed 100% raw. She said "good job" and "dogs on raw tend to stay lean and healthy"!She also said the only reason she doesn't recommend it to most people, is that many people DON'T do the research or follow up (we do wellness panels once a year to make sure everything is a-ok - but we would do that if our dogs were kibble fed).

As for Orijen, its a great food. I know a lot of dogs that are doing great on it. Your vet sounds like a complete kook. Although I used to work for vets like that (and guess what the purina and hill's reps came by regularly and even took them to Florida for golfing regularly - and we're in Ontario, not cheap)!!

I even work for a pet insurance company, and all the vets and vet techs that work there feed raw or a premium kibble (like Orijen or EVO).

Get your hubby to read this thread. And even check out some great pro-raw links and dogfoodanalysi s. Try http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
Oh and contact some berner breeders - I'll bet you most good ones either feed a premium good quality kibble or raw!
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 06:15:28 AM »

Oh I also wanted to say that Orijen isn't 70% protein, its closer to 40% on a dry matter basis. Its design is 70% meat (or protein based products) and 30% veggies and botanicals. For digestion the body needs water, as soon as Tucker drinks water it actually lowers the protein levels in the food. 

And raw is actually pretty low in protein. Because it is water inclusive. On a dry matter basis chicken is between 22 -24% and beef and pork are closer to 21 -22% protein. Feeding raw is not 100% protein like a lot of people believe.

I am angry at your vet for you. Its not right for vets to use fear to cash in! Dogs have been around a lot longer than Hill's and guess what as a species they've done pretty darn well with out Rx diets. Before kibble became popular only about 60 years ago - dogs were fed raw food and table scraps. Bah!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 06:17:05 AM by List » Logged
ozzysma
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 08:44:33 AM »

not to kick you when you are down but man why go to a vet when you know beforehand that they are going to be that way. i personally would have got that stupid vet to explain away the crappy ingredients in that food she sells.!!!!!!  buy orijen and put it in the hills bag when he is not looking!!!LOL!! 
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Berner_Mom
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 12:50:05 AM »

not to kick you when you are down but man why go to a vet when you know beforehand that they are going to be that way. i personally would have got that stupid vet to explain away the crappy ingredients in that food she sells.!!!!!!  buy orijen and put it in the hills bag when he is not looking!!!LOL!! 

I know, I know.  To be honest, we ended up at this veterinarian because they are open 24/7 and are an emergency animal hospital too- also its only 2nd time we've seen this particular Dr.  Its a "group" of vets so though you may make an appointment with a particular individual, depending on what emergencies come in during the day, you are not guaranteed to see that Dr, could be any of them.

I assumed ALL vets would feel that way about feeding raw, since I have yet to meet a vet in my city who does not feel it is a bad way to go.  Right now we will definitely be switching vets, I need to find someone who will respect our decision on what we feed our dog, regardless of how they personally feel about it.

And, LOL, I did think about just switching the kibble in the bag too, throwing away the Hills and replacing it with Orijens!
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Sarah
Mom to daughter, McKenna,
With us for 40 weeks, 1 day
Silently Born Into Eternity
on May 27, 2007

Mom to fur-kids:
Tucker, 16 months, BMD
Echo, 6 years, Siamese
Simba, 2 years, Orange Tabby
Mom to one reptile-teenager,
Trevor, 16 years, red-eared slider turtle
patrick
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 03:25:46 AM »

You just might have to switch foods in the bag until you can re-educate hubby!!
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NewfieMama
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 04:30:43 PM »

You just might have to switch foods in the bag until you can re-educate hubby!!

LOL!

I hope it's not overstepping but I'd be beyond ticked at DH if he threw me under the bus like that in front of someone. It's one thing if he says to you in the car on the way home that he didn't know, maybe you could help him understand/suggest some reading or talk more about why you chose raw, etc. but in front of the vet just .... ugh!

So sorry that happened to you. My vet had a fit that I feed Cooper a raw bone once a week. Concerned about bacteria, illness, the dog getting food poisoning from raw meat (!?!?!), etc. It's so annoying.

I agree, try to find a new vet. I called around to find one who would do titers and limited vaccinations and found this one, though I may have to change again if we decide to do raw diet.

Good luck!


Mary & Cooper
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krismark
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 05:23:02 AM »

Well, don't take your vet's advice on dog food brands. I trusted a vet and was feeding a puppy "PMI Nutrition" at their recommendation . He got cancer at a year old and died. The OTHER vet in the office said there was a good chance his food might have been a factor and recommended Wysong, RAW or any other really high quality food(s).

I reasearched PMI later to find that it is really crappy and used for institutional purposes, such as feeding dogs in experimental labs. That just creeped me out. The other vet in the office was very holistic and did accupuncture on dogs, etc. I was very surprised at their differing opinions.
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TINKSMOM
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 04:28:33 PM »

First of all, I cannot imagine going to a vet I didn't trust or "click" with. You need to find the right vet for other reasons besides diet. Then address the food thing. Hubby may open his mind if food advice comes from a new vet or someone he considers an "expert" on it.

Second of all, I think a lot of vets advise against raw and home cooked diets because most don't think most pet owners are knowledgable enough or educated enough to do it the right way. It is easier if good nutrition comes "prepackaged". My vet knows me well enough to know that what "people" food I treat my pups to is safe and preportioned. Tink was on a rice and boiled chicken diet after getting ill from a "bad bag of cheap dog food" when she was a pup. He acknowledges the benefits but knows it can be more complicated and time consuming for most pet owners to keep up with and be disciplined enough to proportion control.

That being said, he supports my feeding Innova although he does not sell it. MOst of his clients cannot afford it. He is a wealth of knowledge on nutrition but understands most clients cannot afford or are not consciencious enough to invest in the best.
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