Really scary!!!

[brigid67]

I had a really scary experience with Willow this evening.  Tonight while I was sitting on the couch  - Williow was bouncing around she decided to get on the couch.  My female Pom (who she has had issues with in the past) was lying on the couch.  Willow jumped up on the couch and laid on Irie (my female pom). I couldn't see what happed because they were behind me - I was sitting on the edge of the couch.  My daughter said Willow got her foot caught in the couch and kind fell on Irie.  Well Irie started growling and barking and trying to get out from under Willow.  Willow started growling at Irie and picked her up and flung her accross the room.  Irie wasn't hurt - but she is definately scared.  I was so shocked.  I am just not sure what to do.  Willow and Irie have had issues in the past. But nothing like this.  As it is we do not leave the little dogs and Willow together unattended.  But I was right there next to them.  I just don't know.  The little guys were here long before Willow showed up.  I love Willow and I do not want to give up on her being able to be a part of the family but I don't want to risk the lives of the mojos either.  I talked with a trainer today (before all of this drama) and we have an appt in 2 weeks (that was the soonest - she is suppose to be one of the best in town).  Wilow has never showed any aggression to anyone here and she only reacts when she feels threatened by Irie.  She gets along with other dogs at the dog park etc.  Just worried that is all.
Timmie

[2dobies]

I can relate to your experience!  I also have a Pom (7 yrs old) who is a little snot! we love her, don't get me wrong, but she does like to instigate trouble!  Darmok just ignores her, so she leaves Dar alone, but she can get Sasha riled up soooo easily, and Sasha retalliates with a stiff-legged jumping growl that turns into a bark fest, then she and the Pom are snarling lips at each other!  Luckily, Sasha does not try to fling Heidi (the Pom) across the room like WIllow did, but it's still dramatic!  It's not an everyday occurrance, and never lasts more than a few seconds, but it drives me crazy when they do it.  We always leave the dogs at home together, and if we are gone, Heidi goes in another room and goes to sleep.  I really think it's just an attention-getting thing they do to see how we will react!
You say you talked to a trainer? For obedience classes, or what?  Maybe that will help.  Maybe the Pom snapped first while they were behind your back and Willow was just "defending" herself?

[GR8DAME]

Brigid,
I have lived in and introduced many dogs into a multidog household over the last 18 years, and the thing you have to remember is that you have a social pack.
One dog is a pet, two or more are a pack, and they have to establish their social order.
It sounds like your pom has pretty much had the upper hand, because of Willow being so young, she could bully and dominate all she wanted. Well, your little girl is growing up and into her own, so baby, she's not gonna take it anymore!
Seriously, there may be those that don't agree, but considering that Willow could have snapped your pom in half with one chomp, sending her sailing was pretty benign, although frightening for you, and intimidating for the pom. If the pom has any dog smarts and insticts she will realize that the balance of power has shifted, and back off. You have to let them work it out, as long as there is no bloodshed. The alternative is to keep them separated for the rest of their lives, or get rid of one of them and never introduce another dog into the mix. JMHO

Stella

[hugo~monster]

i have 3 little poodles so i can relate also to this.  let me say that what happened to you and willow is totally normal.  this does not mean that either dog is aggressive or there is a problem.  there has to be a pack order in the household among the dogs.  hugo is on the bottom of the totem pole here.  for one because he is the youngest and the last dog added to our house.  i am glad he is on the bottom.  my poodles could not really ever harm him, but he could really hurt them if he tried to assert authority.  and also its like this, in your own human family, do you not have disputes?  do you not disagree with someone in your household on occasion?  do you ever have words or arguments about this, that or the other?  same thing with dogs.  i can honestly say if my hubby jumped up on the couch where i was laying and fell into me i would probably snap and bite at him too, lol!  same with dogs.  they have to have their own space, not shared with any other dogs from time to time.  just like people, sometimes dont you just want to be left alone to have some time out from the herd?  and too you have to look at how a little dog looks at the world and you will realize why they can be little S***S.  they are 15 lbs (give or take) and have to look up at everything.  for them everything is a giant.  they are at a disadvantage and therefore has to be in protective mode, so they wont get stepped on or overlooked.  this is going to happen anytime there is more than one dog in the household, big or small.  the only problem is feeding and possessions.  i would really watch closely when it comes to the dog's own personal food and toys/treats.  always supervise at feeding or when there is treats/toys around.  all dogs want what another dog has and one will try to steal the others' and there could be serious fights over that. 

[hugo~monster]

... but she does like to instigate trouble!  Darmok just ignores her, so she leaves Dar alone, but she can get Sasha riled up soooo easily, and Sasha retalliates with a stiff-legged jumping growl that turns into a bark fest, then she and the Pom are snarling lips at each other! 

again i have 3 little poodles and see this also.  the reason they instigate a barkfest with big dogs is to be sure to let everyone know they are still the boss.  the attitude that a little dog gives is to insure they stay on top of the pack order.  doesnt matter what size dogs are in the pack order its who talks a better game.  yes, darmok could snap her like a stick, but the pom has darmok convinced by her vocal attitude that she is the biggest baddest b**** on the block.  sasha sounds like she is not totally convinced that hiedi should be running the show.  it then becomes somewhat of the owners responsibility to assist with pecking order and go ahead and make clear those lines. 

when trying to assist with the dogs pecking order (one has to exist or there will be problems-bloodshed), the owners must always give treats FIRST to the top dog, followed by the rest of the dogs in order you see their pack forming.  always let the top dog be petted first, have the best seat, allow to enter a room before the others.  if you do this the other dogs will start to understand who is in charge.  humans should and MUST be at the pinnacle of the pecking oder, followed then by the dogs!  yes, dogs WILL try their best to be above the humans in the household.     

[2dobies]

Actually, Darmok holds the Alpha-Dog title around here.  Nobody messes with her, and she will show her teeth and gums and wrinkle her nose all the way up to her eyes to make sure that they back away from her chair, her Kong, her bed, her everything.... and they do.  Sasha doesn't question Dar's authority, and Heidi doens't mess with Dar, so Dar ignores her.  The power struggle seems to be between Sasha and Heidi for 'Vice-President'.  I know that's what is going on, and I do make sure that no one gets hurt, but the arguments between the two of them over "i'm the boss of you" still go on.

[Lyn]

I'm going through a similar situation here with Bubba and the Toy Poodle that lives here.

I worry that Bubba will someday get tired of being snapped at and retaliate. The Toy Poodle has made him bleed on occasion. All Bubba has to do is walk up to Candy and she will snarl and snap at him. He usually just walks away from her, but once he did give a quick bark before walking away. Although that was the time she bit his nose and it was bleeding. I do my best to keep them physically apart. And if I see Bubba anywhere near her I call him to me. But Bubba is still a puppy, he's only 9 months old and he wants to play.. it can get rather frustrating. I doesn't help that the poodle is treated like a baby and has no training whatsoever. 

Candy (the poodle) has some serious issues that would take me paragraph to fit everything in. You name is.. she does it.

I feel your pain though.. It sucks to have 2 dogs that do not get along.

[Newf Lover]

Irie started growling and barking and trying to get out from under Willow.  Willow started growling at Irie and picked her up and flung her accross the room.  Irie wasn't hurt - but she is definately scared. 

I don't condone abuse towards animals, big or small, but I'm getting some funny pictures in my head from your description.  Poms, and a lot of other small dogs, just seem to be asking for it from Big Dogs.  I had one Pom the other day that was just screaming and foaming at the mouth to get at Drake, and Drake just lumbered by, ignoring the fact that that Pom would be a small meal for him at best.  At the Dog Park, Drake has layed on a few small dogs at times, and those dogs absolutely FREAKED!  Sorry, don't make fun of that situation but it's kinda slapstick on the outside looking in.  Glad Irie didn't get hurt.  Quick question, why did you name her Irie?  Is she usually very chilled out, or is she only relaxed when Pot smoke is blown in her face?  J/K! 

[brigid67]

Well thank you everyone for all he great comments and advice.  I had spoken with a trainer mostly for obedience.  Willow is getting big and she is a bit hard headed.  I just need some help walking on a leash, coming when called.  She does good sometimes ut then decides she is not going to listen.  We also talked about the issues with Irie and Willow.  She said she might be able to help with that too.  She said it sounded like a pecking order issue.  She is going to come over to the house to meet everyone and watch the little guys with Willow.  I am hoping for some decent manners and maybe a little dog peace.  It might be to much to wish for but at least we can try.  Willow only has shown aggression towrd Irie when Irie has started it.  And it does seem that Willow has decided that she is just not going to take it anymore. 

Irie was named because when she was a baby she was pretty laid back.  Also, my friend, who owned her parents - was from Jamaica.

[k2campbell]

I can't relate to this experience (but) do you think Willow could have gotten scared when her paw got stuck in the couch, and maybe did this just to get your pom out of the way so she could get 'her paw back'?

I don't know, but I know dogs react out of fear a lot...

[brigid67]

hmmmm...I don't know it is possible.

it has made me more on edge when they are around each other. And I know this is not good cause they can sense the tension.

[ZooCrew]

I can't relate to this experience (but) do you think Willow could have gotten scared when her paw got stuck in the couch, and maybe did this just to get your pom out of the way so she could get 'her paw back'?

I don't know, but I know dogs react out of fear a lot...

That is what I was going to suggest.  Willow may have even thought that Irie was the one that was holding her foot down (even though it's obvious she wasn't)  If Keiko is playing and gets hurt, even if she did it to herself by falling or whatever, she will blame whoever is nearest and go after them.  Not attacking them or anything, but she will snap at them and tell them to back off.

So I could see how Willow might have blamed Irie for her predicament, only b/c Irie was right there and she had no other explanation.

[dogcrazyforever]

We had a little yorkie for 7 yrs and one day our 1yr old lab snapped at her. I don't think she even meant to hurt her but she did...the yorkie died within minutes. I don't mean to scare you more but a big dog (especially a great dane) can hurt a little one without even meaning to. We got rid of the dog because my mom couldn't look at it without picturing the yorkie dying (she saw it happen). I don't know if you agree, but with our great dane we used a zap collar whenever she got too rough. We set it on the lowest setting and now she just leaves the yorkies alone. I think it could have prevented what you just experienced. Some don't agree with zap collars but its a much better method than getting rid of the dog. Plus, she doesn't even know it's us so there isn't any jelousy going on. She knows to not hurt or even growl at the little ones because they have *unexplainable powers*. lol.