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Author Topic: What happened to the Goldens?  (Read 10327 times)
Kelly89084
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2006, 01:08:12 AM »

I love reading the posts and opinions here.  You're always learning something new. Smiley
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"If a dog jumps in your lap, it is because he is fond of you; but if a cat does the same thing, it is because your lap is warmer." - Alfred North Whitehead
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2006, 11:45:26 PM »


As a Golden owner, I can respond to the original question. While much can be blamed on individual owners and lack of proper socialization and training, I believe the original question is simply regarding temperament (no specific examples were given).

I can tell you that Yes - the Golden temperament has been seriously compromised in the U.S. today and many now display fear aggressive and intolerance.  Why you ask?  An example of a breed that has been so grossly overbred and poorly bred in the U.S. without any breed controls whatsoever.  This breed is now a dime and dozen and most come from backyard breeders that have produced exaggerated traits and temperament problems.

Mine in particular (a backyard bred dog) has a heart of gold and is incredibly sensitive and emotional - just like what everyone thinks a Golden is to be.  She is also, however, a nervous nelly and jolts at loud noises. This, coupled with serious orthopedic issues (now also rampant in goldens) made her feel vulnerable with other dogs and caused her to become very protective of her right knee. My once sweet, happy, social girl, became snappy and snarly at strange, hyper dogs approaching her that she could not trust. Puppies, who are jumpy and swat at her face will receive stern corrections and all crude social skills will get disciplined.  She still loves to play, romp and wrestle at the park, but must know the dog and trust the dog. She readily loves timid dogs - she knows they won't hurt her.

I broke up a fight with another golden who jumped on a boxer in my park due to toy possession - the golden really turned on this boxer and actually bit.  This is a temperament issue.

Yet two other goldens in my area readily snarl at dogs out of fear - "get away from me" - I find in this breed it is usually due to orthopedic pain. A dog in pain will be grumpy - just like a human - and as the orthopedics in this breed decline, so does their temparement.

It makes me sad and disappointed, but I am most disappointed in the Golden Retriever Club of Amercia who is shameful in their lack of protection of this breed and restraint in breeding.
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2006, 11:51:48 PM »

Along that same line, is it just me,or are the labs being bred now very short? Maybe our pup was an anamolie, but she was twice the height of the labs I see @ shows, they're little fellows.


This seems like a funny question to me, since I believe the real question should be: what happened in the U.S. when everyone starting making these grossly tall and leggy labs and goldens?  This is not the breed standard and not what they are supposed to be.  Look at labs and especially Goldens in the U.K. where their original form has been maintained much more effectively and you will hardly recognize them.  To be an effective field dog and perform their purpose, they must be able to be low, fast, and fluid.  With the height and legginess we have seen in these breeds, we have also seen a horrible increase in orthopedic issues and labs rank #1 in cruciate tears - a problem of correct angulation and structure based on bone structure and size.  Goldens have horrible hips and elbows now.

Many europeans have asked me what is up with the labs and goldens here in the U.S. and I always respond with the same remark:  "oh, its the American way - make everything bigger".
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2006, 12:59:37 AM »

The only golden that I have had the pleasure of encountering is absolutely wonderful.  There is a sweet female in Bella's training class who is calm and very friendly.  Her and Bella were actually cuddling during class today! Kiss Smiley
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Tessie - Belladonna's and Mojo's Mom
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2006, 07:42:13 AM »

I have a 19 week old Golden at my house right now. She is a doll. Wonderful temperament, highly trainable, and lacking the "light bulb" as they are suppose to be  Wink I have however had one other who was not a nice pup.

Golden are just another example of breeding gone bad here in the states. Becoming an AKC popular breed is a sure way to destory any breed.

As far the size of Labs goes...
The AKC & CKC Lab standard allow taller dogs then their english counter parts/KC. The hunting stock labs run way out of this range.
 If you look back at OLD Lab pictures they do not look like the hunting stock seen here in the states they look far more like the "show" dogs. Most people here are just use to seeing the feild type of Labs so when they see one who is to standard they think its wrong.

http://personal.pitnet.net/ldoll/labrador%20Retriever%20history.htm

KC standard Size:
dogs: 56-57 cms (22- 22 1/2 ins); bitches: 55-56 cms (21 1/2 -22 ins).
AKC Standard:Size
Size--
dog is 22 to 24 inches; for a bitch is 21 to 23 inches. Any variance greater than inch above or below these heights is a disqualificati on.

CKC
Height at shoulders -
dogs, 22 1/2 - 24 1/2 in. (57-62 cm);
bitches, 21 1/2 - 23 1/2 in. (54-60 cm).

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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2006, 08:00:03 PM »

I don't know a whole lot about temperament of Goldens, but I do have one friend who has a Golden Retriever. Just went and saw him tonight. Maybe it's just him, but he's very clingy and buggy! Are they usually like that? Is he just weird? I mean, like, would not move 2 inches away from anyone ever! A lot of the Goldens around here are very protective, but I don't know personally how they are.

I suppose I have noticed the difference in Lab types somewhat. I prefer the taller, leaner field type personally. My thing is that Labradors are sooooo overly popular today. Why? It may be for some that they are a very adaptable, good natured breed, but I think more of what it is is that Labs are everywhere, and when a person thinks, hey, I want a dog, they see that everyone else has a Lab, don't do any research on any other breed and just go get a Lab! Be unique! Do something different! And do your homework. Everytime I see someone with a dog, I'll say, "Hey mom, guess what kind of dog so-and-so has?" And of course, it's a lab.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just griping here, so excuse me please. But I just wish people would be willing to be different. Uniformity irritates me!
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Marissa

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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2006, 11:19:51 PM »

Maybe it's just him, but he's very clingy and buggy!>>>

LOL yeah thats pretty much how they are suppose to be. They seek attention and love to smoosh themselves into you.
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Yaz
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2006, 07:15:22 AM »

Here in Toronto, Ontario, we are noticing a rise in aggressive Goldens. There are a few breeders whose lines are still wonderful, but as other posts mentioned, the proliferation of breeding for money is causing a lot of trouble with this wonderful breed.
The funny thing is that I have had people/other dog owners say to me when they meet our Saint,
"Why didn't you want to get a Golden/Lab/Doodle?".
At first I tried to explain our reasons for getting a Saint, but have now shortened my answer to
"Because they have not had their temperment ruined like many of the breeds that used to be dependablely great dogs."
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sc.trojans
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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2006, 08:01:05 PM »


To follow up on my original point about deteriorating temperaments, often tied to deteriorating orthopedics, it is worth noting that it is often unuseful to judege puppies however.  My backyard bred golden was an angel and LOVED dogs for the first 2 1/2 years of her life. It is very common for Goldens to mature and lose their "party attitude", at which time they become much more selective about the dogs they will engage with and the behavior they will tolerate.  This was the case with my girl.

I also want to emphasize at the risk of making goldens sound so bad - there is nothing inappropriate or "aggressive" about a dog growling to say "stop that" - using their voice is highly appropriate corrective action and much better than true aggression - which is to bite. We have become lax about our definition of aggression and this is not useful.  I know many who think dogs who growl at hyper dogs or puppies are being aggressive, when in reality they are disciplining and teaching - something everyone should want their hyper lab or golden puppy to receive - they learn better from adult dogs about how to behave than they do from us humans.  As long as the discipline isn't over the top, it is important instruction.

We shouldn't be too quick to judge the growling dog as the problem - more often than not, it is the quiet dog who committed the greatest offense in the dog world and is the problem.  Check out this article to understand more about what I mean: Entitled "He Just Wants to Say Hi" http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

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