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BPO Training Forum => Behavior, Housebreaking, Obedience => : Gypsy Jazmine January 30, 2006, 12:21:05 AM
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We brought Rosie home fome the shelter on Dec. 1...She was turned in as a stray so we have no background on her...She was wonderful until about a week or so ago when she showed her first sign of agression when she tried to bite the vet when he took her spay sutures out...We chalked it up as fear agression & the vet said not to worry too much about it just to keep an eye on her...Well, she has now lunged at my daughter's face twice...I explained to Missy (age 7) again that she musn't put her face too close to Rosie's because it might scare Rosie because we don't know anything about what she's been through & may not have always been treated with the love & kindness that Sam & Pippin have always had...I also have been working with her on her terrorizing my cats & just last night she started barking aggressivly at the bunnies that live in the houser downstairs..Sh e was fine with both cats & bunnies to start with...She was an angel!!...Then tonight she jumped our fence (or dug out...I'll ahve to check the preimeter in the morning) & I had to go retrieve her from the neighbors yard...Sam & Pippin who have always loved the cats have taken Rosie's lead & started terrorizing them & last night were barking at the bunnies with her...It seems they are learning alot from her & most of it is not good...I simply can't have them learning to leave the fenced in yard so, for now, she will have to go out on a leash or by herself to potty...I don't know what to do with her...It breaks my heart to think we might have to put her back into rescue...HELP PLEASE!!!!!
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Oh NO!!!
I'm so sorry to hear this!!! Maybe it is just a phase where she is testing to see who is in charge?? That is so scary about her lunging at your daughter!!! She looks like such a sweetheart in all the pictures! Has anything changed in the household lately?
I just don't know what to say. I would hate for anyone to get hurt. I know how you feel in regards to the cats- Leeloo our newest member is teaching Mokey and Turkey to terrorize the cats and I am trying to nip it in the bud... but the aggression towards a human family member... I just can't imagine how hard for you that must be. Can you talk to a behaviourist about it?
I hope somehow you can get to the root of the problem and maybe she can come around... it's so hard sometimes with rescues... sometimes they are so damaged and it takes so much patience and understanding to work through past traumas with them.
I am wishing the best and wishing that she can stay with you!
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I really don't know what to tell you as I have never had this type of problem before. I think that what she needs is some firm training. Maybe she is trying to be the dominate one in the pack and you just need to put her in her place.
Good luck
Nina
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Aw, Gyps, DANG that DARN honeymoon period. *sound of me not swearing*... It's always got to end...
Sounds like she is starting to settle in and feel comfortable enough to show more of her personality and test some boundaries. We know all about that here in my house...Â
I agree that you don't want her behavior rubbing off on the boys, and any kind of biting around kids is definitely a worry. I wish I had some good advice for you, but I am no expert. I can only offer moral support. Maybe Red has some ideas? Maybe Jackie?
I am wishing the best for you!
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Thanks guys!...I am willing to work with her definitely!!...I am calling out trainer/behaivoralist tomorrow for advise & support...She is a sweetheart!!...I am having a heck of a time teaching her the down command & to leave the cats alone though...I don't know what to do about the fence jumping...I have a feeling it is not going to be an isolated incident...I had her microchipped when she was spayed & from now on she'll ahve to wear he collar with tages when she goes out in the yard...I'll keep ya's posted on our naughty Rosie!
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Hi Gypsy, I am so sorry that you are having such a hard time. Good luck.
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Darn it. I'm so sorry you all are having a rough time. I don't have any advice, but we're sending you good thoughts and wishing you the best.
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Thank again guys!...I got up early this morning & let the boys out & made Rosie wait to go out...I took her out on leash into the yard & we walked for awhile & then I let her loose to do her business & get some excercise...I called her to my side several times & she always complied & I greeted her good behaivor with praise treats...When it was time to come in she readily came into the house...So, for now Miss Rosie will not go out without me & won't walk out the door off leash until she earns some trust...Maybe I have been too lenient with her...Rosie is officially in Mama Kay's version of boot camp!...I did not find a spot where she dug under the fence so she must have gone over it...Twice Icaught her staring over across the street where I found her last night & she was reprimanded for even thinking it!...I'll call our trainer later for input & see when he can come out...I'll keep ya's posted!
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I'm so sorry Chelle. Hopefully you and the trainer will be able to nip her behavior in the bud. Hang in there girl!
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Sorry to hear you are having a few issues with Rosie. Hopefully it will be something correctable. Wishing you all the best. ;)
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How old is she? Are you aware that there is an element of mental illness in Pyrs that is similar to bipolar? It is treated with the same medications used in humans. It normally appears when the dog is right about age 2, equivalent to the later teen years in humans. This happened to us with our first Pyr at a little less than age 2. He too went after my young daughter without any provocation. His eyes would kind of glaze over when he went out of it (you'd actually see the change) and he'd be remorseful afterward. If this is the case, it may be very difficult to work through, esp with a child in the house. Getting the medication dosage correct is extremely tricky and may need adjusting throughout life. Our Pyr was 150 lbs and one mistake could have been fatal. I do hope this is a behavioral issue and not a hereditary one. I never did find out what happened to my Pyr's sister but she too exhibited some problems about a year after mine.
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Just a few words of encouragement, Chelle. Raven is the only female dog I have ever owned, although I grew up with females.
Her history may be close to Rosie's, in that she was abused as well and we got her at about a year or so old, and that she had some "issues".
She spent about a year, challanging me for dominence. We had regular stare downs, growling and an occaisional snap. I think it was for alpha female status, and the only reason that Casey was not involved was because she was too young to be a threat. After about a year of constant reinforcement of my alpha status she did mellow. Ten years later we do occaisionally butt heads, but not as often or as violently, and she will back down much more quickly. I can't think of any better strategy than calling in a trainer/behaviorist to help you out, as you are already doing, I just wanted you to know that all is not bleak and this can be worked through.
Stella
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The trainer will be here tomorrow at 2:30...I think he will advise me to use NILIF with her...I've already started cracking down...Rosie, isn't a Pyr as far as we know...I am sorry I didn't clarify that...We believe she is a Kuvasz mix of some sort...She has been aged between 2 to 3 & was just spayed 2 weeks ago...Here she is....& ty everyone forthe advise & support!
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Just reading your thread again and it connected you'd only had Rosie less than 2 months. That is still very much in the adjustment period which makes it highly likely that she is be trying to assert herself in the pack. That said, the problems I had with my first Pyr are not just a Pyr issue. It was first seen (documented? made headlines?) in Springer Spaniels and was called "Rage" in that breed. There is a distinct glazing over of the eyes that you really can't miss once you've seen it and look for it in the next incident. THere is such an element of lack of normal/lack of control that really stands out. That is what caught my attention in your posts but as I said, that is likely due to the adjustment period and her newness in the pack. It is still something to be aware of and keep an eye out for, esp with a dog of unknown background. I do wish you well. It is a horrible position to be caught in - the knowledge that you must protect your child coupled with love for the dog. The behaviorist ought to be able to help you sort through and deal with this situation. We had help with our Pyr as well and it was so reassuring to have someone knowledgeable work through it with us.
Found a couple of links on aggression and rage that might give you some ideas. From one of the links: This problem (rage) has also been reported in American Cocker Spaniels, Bernese Mountain Dogs, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Dobermanns, English Bull Terriers, English Springer Spaniels, German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Pyrenean Mountain Dogs and St. Bernards. Again, the number of affected animals is very small.
http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/whatisrage.htm
http://www.vetinfo.com/daggression.html
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47
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That's what I was kind of thinking that she her "honeymoon" period is over & she is showing us who she is...Tomorrow, when my hubby is home to do it, the crate will be brought back in & we are going back to square one with training...lik e she is a new puppy...She had no training whatsoever when we got her...but because she did so well housebreaking & got along so well with my dogs we didn't crate...My dogs are confined to two rooms in the house that are pretty much puppy proofed so those rooms are their "crate"...They get to come into the rest of the house with invitation...B ut, I didn't factor in that Rosie may need the mindset that comes with crate training so back we go to it...Also, I am not taking her into the yard without the leash & after we have walked & she has minded me when I give a command I am taking the leash off & staying out there with her...If she does not come when called the leash goes back on & we go back in...Anyway, that's where we are right now...I will keep you all posted.
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Ah - darn! I'm sorry Gypsy for your troubles with Rosie. Hopefully training will solve these issues - I'm hoping for the best for you! Rosie sure is a cutie ;)
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We have had one full day of Mama Kay's doggie boot camp & I swear I am seeing results already...I really think I got lazy & was too leniant with her...granted she was an angel for a month & 1/2...I let love blind me to the fact that she is a dog & well, dogs will be dogs!...My hubby is going to take care of the fence issue somehow when he is home this week...I know where she is getting out now...& if need be I will slap up a hotwire as a means to an end in order to keep Rosie with us...Don't start..sometim es you have to be cruel to be kind...I don't think it will come to that though but I am that serious about keeping her with us...After further evaluation today I can see that Rosie has no issues with Russell (my 8 yr. old) only Missy....Which is wierd to me because Missy runs the other 2 dogs better than my hubby or I...She is who we send out into the yard to bring Samson & Pippin in when they won't mind us...Maybe Rosie is vying for the true "alpha" position in our house?....That little girl has confidence plus for her age...She makes me proud & drives me nuts at the same time...lol...S o anyway, I've had Missy start feeding Rosie under my supervision... After a sit Missy will put down her food...Rosie is currently being fed seperatly from Sam & Pippin & is not allowed in the yard with them...She is being kept with me at all times & is on a leash with me when I can't completely supervise her...I am feeling pretty good right now about our "little girl lost" & her outcome here in the house of Kay. :)
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Yippee! It sounds like positive progress. I'm so glad to hear it. We'll still be sending good thoughts your way. :)
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Great news! Know that we are cheering you on! You really have taken 'Bones' to heart and are observing! GREAT! ;D ;D ;D
Please keep us posted on your progress!!
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Way to go!
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That's awesome news!!!!!!!!! I fully understnad the cruel to be kind thing. Better she get a little shock than get killed by a car in the road when she gets out.
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Ooohhh, the girls are just the naughtiest aren't they - no wonder they're called bitches!
I wonder if her being spayed had anything to do with her recent transformation into miss bossy boots? Her hormones could be running a little wild which won't help matters.
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That's great Chelle! I'm glad boot camp is working with her. Keep up the good work.
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Woohooo glad tok hear that things are looking up ;D
Nina
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You GO girl.
You ARE the rulemaker. :D
Hotwire is often an excellent and inexpensive solution to keeping dogs inside a fence. Small price to pay for preventing road pizza.
Keep us updated.
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Ooohhh, the girls are just the naughtiest aren't they - no wonder they're called bitches!
I wonder if her being spayed had anything to do with her recent transformation into miss bossy boots? Her hormones could be running a little wild which won't help matters.
I considered that & am waiting on a call back from the vet because that is around the time things went south with Rosie...Now, don't get me wrong...She has been pretty sweet...I am just going to nip the new bad behaivor in the bud before it escalates!...Rosie will learn the same thing my kids already know...When push really comes to shove Mama Kay don't mess around...lol!
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K..the behavoralist/trainer just left...He was her with his wife for 3 hours....Great news!...Rosie isn't being dominant...She is very nervous & unsure...When she snarfed at Missy Paul said she was trying not to bite not trying to bite...He said she was in a situation that made her scared...He gave me some wonderful advise on what to do with her & told me signs to watch for when Rosie is letting me know she feels threatened...H e also said that she surely has been abused & mistreated & not just a few times but over a long period of time...That just breaks my heart!...So anyway, we can "fix" Miss Rosie!!...YAY!!!!!!!!...& Paul said to call whenever I need any help or advise!!!
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That's wonderful news!!! Sorta. Sigh. Still makes me wonder what kind of person could do things like that to a dog. Our beloved Thor had teeth broken, old eye injury, split gums, terrified of any movement near his head when he came. How can people do that?????? I'm so glad she has you now and that you and the trainer are willing to put the time into helping her. I'm sure she'll blossom with love and care!
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I am so glad that this can be worked out.
Nina
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I'm so glad everything is working out. We have used the dog grade electric fence before and it was wonderful. The shock was so low on it, we could grab onto the wire and it was a very mild shock, but the dogs learned VERY quickly to stay away from it.
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That's wonderful news!!! Sorta. Sigh. Still makes me wonder what kind of person could do things like that to a dog. Our beloved Thor had teeth broken, old eye injury, split gums, terrified of any movement near his head when he came. How can people do that?????? I'm so glad she has you now and that you and the trainer are willing to put the time into helping her. I'm sure she'll blossom with love and care!
I know!!...The trainer said she was a sweet dog with a wonderful temperment she is just very scared...I asked if maybe she was just unsocialized & he said I could be positive that she was badly mistreated...T he poor thing!...I feel bad now that I got frustrated with her...See, Samson & Pippin were my 1st dogs & Rosie makes 3...We just got Samson in Nov. of '04...The only other dog I'd really known was my sister's 1st Collie & he was near perfect...lol. ..What I'm saying is that I don't always see the subtle expressions & body language from a dog such as Rosie...Anyway, I am so happy right now & so glad that I called the behaivoralist right away when Rosie snarfed at Missy...Otherw ise the situation may very well have been out of my control very soon...A side note...Paul said that Rosie was very intelligent!...That I already knew!...lol!
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Chelle I'm so happy that things are going to work out. She deserves a happy life with you knowing what she's been through.
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Chelle I'm so happy that things are going to work out. She deserves a happy life with you knowing what she's been through.
Thanks April!!!...& we intend on giving her that happy life! :) ...It's sounds like it will be a hard row to hoe but we will be o.k.!
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Sounds like you have a bit of work ahead of you--but it will be worth every minute ;) Glad to hear things are going to work out for the best ;D
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That's great news. Good for you, Gyps! Rosie will get there with your leadership, discipline, and love!
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With my new found insight on Rosie I am seeing improvement with her already...Toda y she came up & looked into my eyes for just a moment & licked me on the nose! ;D
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Awww, how sweet! :)
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That is great, Gyps! She's saying "Thanks, Mom, for believing in me!"
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That is great, Gyps! She's saying "Thanks, Mom, for believing in me!"
I think so too...I feel so bad that I got so frustrated with her...I am so glad to find out what is going on with her...With some firm rules & training & alot of love & patience we're gonna be just fine...Ya' know, it must be a tremendous relief to Rosie that we are understanding her now.
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That is great, Gyps! She's saying "Thanks, Mom, for believing in me!"
I think so too...I feel so bad that I got so frustrated with her...I am so glad to find out what is going on with her...With some firm rules & training & alot of love & patience we're gonna be just fine...Ya' know, it must be a tremendous relief to Rosie that we are understanding her now.
Yup, I bet you're right. She is happy and lucky to have you. And her two cool brothers too... :D
I think you had every right to feel discouraged and frustrated when you did. That is so normal. What was really important was what happened next. You cleared away the emotional response, and got grounded again, and realized the committment that you had made to Rosie was a lifetime one, not one that is null and void the first time she reacts badly to something. We went through the same thing with Ranger...
Did I mention how lucky she is to have you? ;)
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aaaawwwwwwwwww shucks! ;D I am just fortuante enough to have a wonderful trainer who is passionate about what he does!...But thanks guys! :) ...You're right Kooks!...It is easy to just chalk that kind of behavior up to a dog trying to be dominant!...I am SO glad I made the call to the trainer right away...Rosie was doing some stuff that I didn't even notice....very subtle things...I just wish everyone has access to a trainer like Paul!
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This is very good!...Rosie came to us with NO training at all...Since the 1st week of Dec. I've been trying to get her to "down" for me...No matter what I did she would not comply...Yeste rday she "downed" for the 1st time for me...Today she has the command nailed!..."Down" is the hardest command to teach a dog because it leaves them vulnerable...I t is no wonder when I didn't understand her she couldn't trust me!...I am SO glad I made that call to the trainer! :)
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That is so amazing and wonderful! You've made huge progress in such a short time! Yeeeehawww! Great news for you, her, your dogs and your family!
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Yeah, glad to hear you are making such great progress. Good work ;D ;D