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Newfoundlands => Newfoundland Discussions => : Mom2Sadie March 02, 2006, 04:07:20 PM
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I'm really sorry to keep doing this. I feel like I have nothing to add to this great place except question after question BUT bear with me please?
Sadie has been having an absolutely horrific couple of days behavior wise. I don't know what to do with her. She's forgotten everything we've learned about potty training. She'll come in from outside and go on the floor. She'll go in her crate. She gives me no indication that she needs to go out - which at 4 months, I know is asking a lot but she was doing SO well. She's jumping up on the counters and tables, she's biting again (we nipped that in the bud a few weeks ago). And then when I tell her no, she talks back to me and barks her head off. I give her 30 second timeouts and she acts like I've just savagely beaten her.
I feel like I want to kill her sometimes I get so frustrated - not really of course but you know what I mean. I've been nothing but consistent with her and I feel like I'm getting nowhere. Actually it's worse than getting nowhere, it's like we're moving backwards. I love my dog and I want to have a great life with her but right now I'm really really really frustrated. She is driving me nuts and I don't want to be frustrated with her. I love her and I want our time together to be fun. I feel like all I do all day is tell her "No". Help please? Could it be separation anxiety? It's not like she's ever alone for very long, I go home every day at lunch and spend time with her. I really don't know what to do. Anyone?
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I'm really sorry to keep doing this. I feel like I have nothing to add to this great place except question after question BUT bear with me please?
Sadie has been having an absolutely horrific couple of days behavior wise. I don't know what to do with her. She's forgotten everything we've learned about potty training. She'll come in from outside and go on the floor. She'll go in her crate. She gives me no indication that she needs to go out - which at 4 months, I know is asking a lot but she was doing SO well. She's jumping up on the counters and tables, she's biting again (we nipped that in the bud a few weeks ago). And then when I tell her no, she talks back to me and barks her head off. I give her 30 second timeouts and she acts like I've just savagely beaten her.
I feel like I want to kill her sometimes I get so frustrated - not really of course but you know what I mean. I've been nothing but consistent with her and I feel like I'm getting nowhere. Actually it's worse than getting nowhere, it's like we're moving backwards. I love my dog and I want to have a great life with her but right now I'm really really really frustrated. She is driving me nuts and I don't want to be frustrated with her. I love her and I want our time together to be fun. I feel like all I do all day is tell her "No". Help please? Could it be separation anxiety? It's not like she's ever alone for very long, I go home every day at lunch and spend time with her. I really don't know what to do. Anyone?
sounds like she's trying to get her way and make your life revolve around you.
Grace is a lot like Sadie. She was an obstant puppy till about 10 months when she realized I wasn't going to bow down and worship the ground she walked on.
She learned to sleep past 3:30 am and that potty in the crate hurt her more than me.
Grace knows not to get on the counters and still pushes that issue...but I bop her on the noggin when she does that.
She's more like a 3 year old than a dog. and 3 year olds need to be spanked and told what to do a lot.
I was at the end of my rope with her...and suddenly she came out of it. She's still a stinker and I accept that...but she's not the center of the universe.
I hate to say wait it out...because there is trainig needed and discipline...b ut it does get better.
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I i totally understand. Bailey is going to the bathroom when left alone again. She has been on clomicalm and she was doing pretyy good and now we are back at square one. And the coutner ting the other day she ate 2.o # of ground raw turkey. Another day a whole tray of deli wraps, and the other morning which is when i lost it and nocked her with my foot she ate a 1/2 dozen of choclate chip cookies. I do not know hat to do. I fee terriable, and i know i should not have touched her but she will be 4 in auugust and she gives us so many problems. I do love her we have gone to puppy classes, and clicker. She is taking such wonderful care of and she still does this. I do not know what to do. I have invested so much money and time that it will kill me to get ir of her. please help us. i just wanted to let you know you were not alone. best of luck.[/color] :-\
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Hi,
Hmmm that sounds very odd, How is your cat doing? Didn't you say the cat had surgery. Maybe Sadie is feeling left out (or experiencing sympathy symptons) because of the extra attetion to kitty.
That wouldn't speak to the house breaking but could be something in the mix, Can you call your breeder to see if this is something others from the litter are doing. 4 months saw the start of Winslow's talking back and nipping, so that could just be sadie's age.
I have nothing on the house breaking other than reward her when she goes out side ignore the mistakes inside (negative attention is attention none the less)If she starts while inside try scooting her out to finish and praise her when she is done outside. Good luck she will get better11
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are either Sadie or Bailey crated? If so, put the divider in the crate so they have less room to make a mess until they learn not to make the mess again.
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we tried the crate thing and she mess all over it and her. this was regular as apuppy then she ogt ot big so we stopped than after she was on the med tried again and still the same thing. The vet is weeing her off clomicalm and now we'll try Elavil. if that does not wrok dog behaivorist and that will cost over 1,000 dollars and hubby will not go for that because we have spent close to 5,000 already. so she is gated in the kitchen now.
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Welcome to the teenage stage.....Kali still talks back and can act extremely obnoxious. She didn't start that early though and she never regressed as far as potty training although she did do a few accidents out of spite. Maybe take her to the vet to rule out any medical problems....I doubt it is but you never know. As far as counter surfing a loud NO often works and there are other methods such as baiting her with a peice of meat then getting after her or cookie sheets over the edge so when she jumps she'll knock it off. I believe there was a thread on it somewhere on how to stop it.
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Hi,
Hmmm that sounds very odd, How is your cat doing? Didn't you say the cat had surgery. Maybe Sadie is feeling left out (or experiencing sympathy symptons) because of the extra attetion to kitty.
That wouldn't speak to the house breaking but could be something in the mix, Can you call your breeder to see if this is something others from the litter are doing.
Kitty is much better and they are back to being playmates. I guess it could be something to do with that but you'd think she would have done that when he was really sick and I was paying lots and lots more attention to him. Now it's just back to normal with everyone getting playtime and I also make sure to give each of them individual cuddle time with just me and them to avoid anyone feeling neglected. I don't know what's going on with her.
<are either Sadie or Bailey crated? If so, put the divider in the crate so they have less room to make a mess until they learn not to make the mess again.>
Sadie is crated HOWEVER she manages to mess in the crate and then push the bottom tray thingy outside the crate so she doesn't have to lay in it. I need to look into getting her a different type of crate so she can't do it anymore.
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This all reminds me of when we had our female Newf, Lucille. As much as I adored her, she could be a real *itch!!! She was SO much more difficult to housebreak than the males (to think of it so was my daughter :D :D). I agree with everyone....yo u may have to go back to the beginning of training and just do it all again. Take her out to potty and don't come in until she goes. Reward her like mad when she's successful. She has to know that you are the #1 *itch! I swear Lucille would wait until we were in the MOST embarrassing place to go poo: crossing a busy street, at Home Depot garden center, any place she had a audience where I could look like a complete and total fool! I SWEAR she'd giggle in her jowls as I was madly cleaning up after her. Hang in there, it will get better. I think these girls are just VERY smart and want to get one up on another female. ;) ;)
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Flynn is 15 months old and I STILL have the odd day where I get so frustrated with him, I could cheerfully strangle him. The day before yesterday he was TERRIBLE and just like a hyperactive nutcase all day - barking, biting, pulling on the lead - he even stood on my shoe and flipped it clean off my foot when we were outside because he was so keen to get to the gate where the boxer bitch he hates lives to bark at it. (she attacked him totally unprovoked when he was a puppy and he hasn't forgotten)
But the last two days he's been an angel and I couldn't wish for a better behaved dog. Just be patient and consistent and Sadie will soon be wonderful most of the time. Unfortunately it isn't a smooth learning curve and puppies often appear like they've forgotten everything they've learned. Hey, we all have bad days - even puppies. ;)
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I agree that she might be testing you to see how much you'll tolerate...Sam son was the teenager from h*ll!!!!!!...I can't count the number of things I worked so hard to break him of & then watched him doing them all over again...I also can't tell you the number of nights I cried & said "tomorrow you go back to the breeder"!!...Of coarse after a good nights sleep it was "we'll get through this together big guy"!!...It was well worth it...He is the best behaved dog I have if not always the most obediant! ;D Hang in there...I feel ya'!...Oh yes I do!
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I agree with the others, but will add that may be she is getting dominant.
When our Molly was a pup I was always threatening to have her put to sleep, she was h*ll to live with! She used to jump on the furniture, and she wasn't allowed. She wouldn't get off when told, and if you went to get her off she would bite your hands. She was one dominant female I can tell you!!
After talking to her breeder, I realised that she was testing us to see who was boss, and I decided I was! When ever she was naughty I didn't speak to her, but I got hold of her collar and dragged her out of the room... Even if she tried to bite me. She had to stay out of the room for a minimum of 2 minutes. If she started acting up when she was let back in she was dragged out again. She soon learnt that when she did things we didn't like that she was turfed out of the room.
We never had problems with her using the house as a toilet though, so i can only suggest as others have said, you will have to start at the beginning again... She is still a baby at 4 months :)
Honey is the one in our house who used to jump up on the work surfaces. Luckily for me, after her getting a few sharp NO's, while I pushed her off and pulled and angry face, she has stopped doing it.
And to make you feel so much better, Molly changed into a much nicer dog after her 3rd birthday... So you haven't got too long to wait, lol!
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i think your questions benefit us all and you are adding comfort & knowledge to the forum. just think of the next person who finds this place and sees what you wrote. then all the replies of support and suggestions. that person will feel better knowing they are not alone and might find some new ideas to apply to their mis-behaving kids [no matter how hairy or hair-less the kid is ;)].
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Yup, i think your questions help others immensely.
When i first got Day-z I was in tears as she was so naughty - but once she knew who was boss then she developed into a wonderful and kind dog. On day 2 though i contemplated driving her 800 miles bakc to her breeder.
And as for toilet training.....
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With toilet training...... ....as with alot of training for dogs, there is a period of adjustment where they seem to forget. It is when their memory is shifting from short term to long term memory. During this process, they may seem to forget things they knew wonderfully before. Potty training is one of these. Bite inhibition may be another, but I agree they go thru phases with that while they are teething. I agree though that you should start over from scratch on training.
I also agree that she may be showing dominant traits. If she is really resisting your discipline, you may want to start laying down the law now, while she is young before there are problems when she gets older. Time outs are great, but you have to be consistant. I usually give time outs for at least 5 minutes (depending on why they are in time out). If they start crying........ .they will stay in time out until they stop, even if it is an hour later. It's kind of the same concept as crating. You don't want to let them out of it when they are crying, or they think crying will speed up their release.
Good luck. Don't you just love those puppy years?.........lol.
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Iz is now 5 1/2 months (picture is outdated) and boy have we been there too. I agree with everyone. We are working with a trainer one on one. It is not treat training - all based on pack-order (similar with Ceasar Milan and the Dog Whisperer theory). It is working wonderfuly and you can really see that he is beginning to understand his role in the pack.
I travel a lot, so my husband works with Iz a lot more. He works with him every night. It's amazing the progress he is making and also - Iz is more calm and more obediant with my husband - because of their work together. He's pretty good with me too - but there is a subtle difference.
I strongly recommend looking into this type of training. You want your girl to do things because you tell her to - not because you are holding a treat. if she is jumping on people, on your counters etc, or God forbid, running into the street - you want her to respond to YOU and not to a treat. (Treat training I'm sure works for a lot of folks too - but this is really working for us).
As far as potty-training- you will see several of my frantic posts about 6 weeks ago on the same topic. Like everyone has said - be consistent - every time. I would recommend still taking her out on a leash and keep repeating "potty, potty" etc. until she goes. Once she goes, praise her like crazy. It's funny - now - the minute Iz and I go outside and I say "potty" he goes. I found that if I let him out into the yard off-leash, he thought it was play time, would not go, and then we would have issues.
He's still not perfect - and if I'm not careful sometimes foregets the sunroom is not outside - but all in all - he knows what to do and now asks.
When is she going in the crate - at night or during the day? How long after a meal? This may sound crazy - but some foods can also be the culprit - maybe too much gas etc
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This thread is great! Lots of great info. We had a lot of trouble with Eider pooping in the crate but it has mostly been digestive issues. He's got two things working - a sensitive digestive tract and a penchant for trouble. We've gone two rounds of metrodonizole (sp?) which cleared things up for a while, this time it was roundworms which we just treated. He did have a few times where he'd come in the house and pee or poop inside but it did eventually go away. It really might help to have a vet check things out to make sure everything is as it ought to be before you get too frustrated.
We got Eider at 5 mo so he doesn't quite fit the routine we'd always noticed with our other dogs but all the others seemed to be 6 mo of cute but h*ll, then you'd notice that things got a little easier. Then at 1 yr again you'd notice that suddenly things were a little easier yet. Then again at 2 yrs suddenly they are a full fledged dog and pretty darned great to live with.
One thing we did with ALL of our dogs was daily excercise. Whenever they get their excercise for the day, life is good. When they don't get that excercise, life can be rather wild! Even at almost 14 yrs of age, Piper STILL gets excited when she sees a leash! The only place I'd ever seen any recommendation s for appropriate activity levels I can't seem to find back. It said 5 min on the leash for every month of age of a pup over 4 mo. I'd tend to go on the light side of that but 15-20 min of a meandering stroll for a pup is probably not that difficult to fit into a schedule and might really help burn off some of the naughty.
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Wow, thanks everyone, lots of great information. I don't want to sound so negative. I love my dog and she is an amazing dog for the most part, she's just a baby and she's testing me or something. We're having a slightly better evening tonight mostly because I'm taking her outside every half hour like when she first came home. She's doing the countersurfing thing every chance she gets and I keep giving her timeouts. Someone on here said 5 minutes for the timeout I think? I've been doing 30 seconds. The trainer said any longer than that and they forget why they're there. But I'll try longer timeouts and see if that helps. I think she might be doing a dominance thing too, someone else here mentioned that. I'm doing my best and really trying to be consistent. She goes to the vet for her 16 week checkup and shots next week so I'll mention all of this and see what she says and make sure nothing is wrong physically. I posted the same question on another board and someone there thought it was unlikely that she could hold it all night on her own at this age so maybe she has some sort of infection. She's been holding it all night - well from midnight till 5:30 - since she was 9 weeks old. Is that abnormal?
She really is a good dog, and I love her to pieces, I hate being so frustrated with her. I'm determined for us to have a good day tomorrow. We have puppy class in the morning which I'm definitely looking forward to:) She behaves so well there I don't know why she won't do the same at home. Maybe we just had a bad week, who knows? Isn't this behavior very un-Newf-like?
The advice is really helpful. I really appreciate it. I'm just having a tough time with her right now. I know it'll get better it's just hard to remember that in the heat of anger. Thanks again for all the help.
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we're always here to 'listen' ;)
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Someone on here said 5 minutes for the timeout I think? I've been doing 30 seconds. The trainer said any longer than that and they forget why they're there. But I'll try longer timeouts and see if that helps.
I was the one who said the 5 minutes. But it also depends on what they did wrong. Something minor can certainly be for less time. 30 seconds I don't think is long enough, and I don't think they learn anything from that. But that is just me.
As for her being able to hold it all night......... ...some dogs can do that at a very young age. If I remember right, Gunther could hold it all night when I got him at 12 wks. They tend to be able to hold it longer in a crate than outside of it, so that probably factors into it also.
Edited to add: I think Iz gave some great advice as well. Both of my dogs know the phrases "go potty" and "go poops". I believe it can really help their understanding of what they are supposed to be doing outside. And it also helps alot with me when we travel........ ......as they have to go when we stop. They don't get to choose when they want to go, they go when I want them to go. They both have learned that going to the bathroom is the first thing they do when outside. Once done, then they can play and goof around. :)
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oooh geez! i can definately relate.. although fumble is 7 months old.. he definately went through his puppy stage where i was contemplating going crazy! now he's in his teenage stage and still has his crazy momentS! jumping and trying to bite you.. all the while tail wagging because of course it's a game!
is she getting enough exercise?? that's what everyone told me to do.. fumble was and still acts out, but it's definately worth a shot.
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[quote author=ZooCrew
I was the one who said the 5 minutes. But it also depends on what they did wrong. Something minor can certainly be for less time. 30 seconds I don't think is long enough, and I don't think they learn anything from that. But that is just me.
Edited to add: I think Iz gave some great advice as well. Both of my dogs know the phrases "go potty" and "go poops". I believe it can really help their understanding of what they are supposed to be doing outside. And it also helps alot with me when we travel........ ......as they have to go when we stop. They don't get to choose when they want to go, they go when I want them to go. They both have learned that going to the bathroom is the first thing they do when outside. Once done, then they can play and goof around.  :)
We've been doing longer timeouts since last night and she HATES it. So I think maybe 30 second ones were way too short for her. That's what our teacher told me to do so I thought I was doing the right thing. I guess that's why it wasn't working. She'll still go right back and do the thing that landed her in a timeout but she actually stopped with just a "No" a little while ago.
Yes I agree with you, that was good advice about saying "go potty". I have always done this and then when she does go outside I give her a treat and say "good potty" and make a huge deal of it. She knows what it means but she still thinks it's much better to run around and eat things off the ground first. Sometimes it takes 2 seconds for her to go outside, sometimes it takes 30 minutes. Depends on her mood:) And all the while I'm saying "go potty" over and over again. I think she just likes to make me look stupid. No accidents since yesterday afternoon at lunchtime. I'm taking her out every half hour. She doesn't go everytime but still.
Fumble, I talked to the trainer about maybe doing more exercise and I want to check with the vet first but I think that might solve a lot of this. I've been trying to give her enough exercise to keep her lean but not too much because the breeder said only short walks until 6 months. But she has SO much energy and I think that's why she's being such a ...punk for lack of a better word:). And I think it would be better for her to have longer walks to burn some of the "crazy" off than barreling around the house getting into trouble. I'm concerned about her hips - I've heard some strange noises though my vet says they seem ok now and we won't really know until she's a bit older. I give her treats with Glucosamine Chondroitin (sp?). I'm just nervous to exercise her too much because I've heard that can cause problems.
It's 10 AM and we've already done 4 timeouts since she got up. But at least she's not going in the house. It's going to be a long day :-\
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This thread sure made me feel better! Jinx has been a terror for several weeks now. I have been trying to rack my brain trying to figure out what her problem is. After reading everyone's responses I feel she IS trying to dominate us (not my sweet Jinx!) I've contemplated calling her breeder and seeing what she thinks. She's been through basic obedience and it's like she doesn't know a sngle command! She starts again at the end of March, so I'm hoping that will do some good. I don't have the housetraining issue, but she's almost 10 months old. There have been many a days I tell her she's going back to her breeder...then she looks at me and I melt. Oh well, at least we're not alone in our problems (Thank God!).... :D
Sami
Sami
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Well we had a better day today. Not great, but better. She's so fresh, sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or kill her. We had class this morning and the teacher thinks she's pulling some alpha dog stuff and I just need to show her that I'm the boss. She hasn't had an accident all day primarily because she hasn't had an opportunity because I've taken her out 500 times. But I'll take that at this point. My poor carpets are demolished.
She's also had about 500 timeouts today and she's talking back. But I've just been consistent with the timeouts. I tried putting her in the small bathroom for a few minutes this last couple of hours and she really hates that but I think it works better than just tying her to the door in the kitchen because the kitties feel bad and go over there with her.
I took her to the park behind our house and she played with my neighbors husky and this beautiful Dane that was there (he was a silver merle his owner said - I've never seen a Dane in real life before and man was he handsome!)for an hour or so. So she was tired most of the rest of the day and like they say - a tired puppy is a good puppy.
Iz is the training you were talking about widely available? What do they call it? It sounds like that might be a better option for us than treat training which is what we're doing now. Thanks again for all the input! Nice to know I'm not the only one with a bratty pupper!
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To answer the question you asked Iz, it's generally referred to as dog psychology. The most known trainer is Cesar Milan in California but he has his own show The Dog Whisperer on the National Geographic Channel and a DVD and a book coming out in April. He mainly focuses on the fact you have to be calm assertive and be the leader. You have to be the first out the door and she has to stay at your side or slightly behind you on a leash. If you get the chance to watch his show I'd highly recommend it.
As far as the talking back, Kali has been doing it for the past 5 months and nothing we've tried has stopped it. She is such a brat and has earned her nickname of Pestulance. Everyone in the house is going deaf so my suggestion is invest in earplugs. The thing that works best with Kali is either ignoring her or if she is doing it instead of doing what we ask make her do what we've asked or have her lay down on her side and submit(pinning). We've done it with both of our guys since thedy were puppies so they know that it's time to settle when we do that. Also a good distraction is blowing in their face.
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I was having some issues with Kayzer showing agression and trying to be Alpha so I posted on here about it and Dog healer gave me a link to a wonderful website called Alpha Boot camp. I have been doing the things they suggest with Kayzer and I have noticed he has been showing a big improvement ever since. Kayzer is 5 mths old now,and he has been showing a new respect for me and other people.
He also obeys commands alot better than before. As for the potty thing Kayzer was very good that way but my other Dane Sadie was not so easy, She tested me all the time, my carpets were trashed but she finally figured it out after alot of persistance. Good Luck and here is the link to the Alpha Boot Camp site.
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm
Carole
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What about bailey she is not a pup almost 4. We are scheduled to meet with this name we were referred to "Dog man" hopefully he may help. i just don't know. And she was with my sis this weekend and was an angel. But sis has a pug. When ever bailey is around another dog she is an angel. but we can not have two dogs condo association will not allow. I thought about cat, but after last time hubby is saying h*ll NO. i brough one home after he said no and he was suppose to be declawed, we wasn't, suppose to get along with dogs, we wasn't(he pooped verytime he saw the dog and hissed), last he peed in hubby's new car and the way home. cost $800 dollars to have seat replaced. it was awful. i tell u i have no good luck. oh well.