Author Topic: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ  (Read 11337 times)

Offline longshadowfarms

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2006, 06:45:02 am »

 DO contact breed rescue organizations (there is one for every breed of pure-bred dog!) or local animal welfare organizations for help in placing unwanted pets; if you bought the pet from a responsible breeder, he/she will help you rehome the pet.

This has certainly hit home as we try to rehome Katie.  I've been very concerned with how we try to "advertise" her without reaching people who won't care for her or will abuse her.  Unfortunately, the rescue group has also not been much help.  I've come to the conclusion that we need to find a person who has previously owned a pet and lost it.  The difficulty is finding that person.  It is a complicated problem without easy solutions.
Daphne

Offline marinafb

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2006, 07:23:27 am »
I don’t plan on going to war with anyone over this issue its common knowledge that animals including dogs are used for research animal parts, fighting you name it. You can either face the facts or ignore it. The reason I posted this on 1 of the sites I check out locally is people are listing there animals in bold lettering free CAT FREE DOG. There’s more involved then just posting  animals and getting rid of the animal if you truly care what kind of home your pet ends up in. I always list the rescue sites depending on what type of dog the person has or try and hook them up with a foster home until the proper home can be found for the dog. You never want to make someone feel like there only alternative is just letting there pet free or dropping them off by the side of the highway which happens more then anyone would like to know. I m hoping to prevent the animals from turning into bait or on the door step of a research center. Sorry if I offended anyone! Marina 
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Nicole

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 10:56:21 am »
I don’t plan on going to war with anyone over this issue its common knowledge that animals including dogs are used for research animal parts, fighting you name it. You can either face the facts or ignore it. The reason I posted this on 1 of the sites I check out locally is people are listing there animals in bold lettering free CAT FREE DOG. There’s more involved then just posting  animals and getting rid of the animal if you truly care what kind of home your pet ends up in. I always list the rescue sites depending on what type of dog the person has or try and hook them up with a foster home until the proper home can be found for the dog. You never want to make someone feel like there only alternative is just letting there pet free or dropping them off by the side of the highway which happens more then anyone would like to know. I m hoping to prevent the animals from turning into bait or on the door step of a research center. Sorry if I offended anyone! Marina 

Hey Marina,
 I know that its common for animals to be used for research. But, what I was saying is that it really isn't that common for pets to be stolen and sold for research. If you look at the USDA site, you will see that is almost impossible. I know that it seems like these labs are like..the lair of the devil (and in some ways, they are...) but, they are HEAVILY regulated and monitored, and have to report where they get their animals. Most of them are also HEAVILY FUNDED by the government, and don't want to risk that funding. They need it to get by. Believe me, I worked in a lab that had live animals (birds) and the paperwork, regulation, and inspection are mind-boggling.

 I don't think that it helps the "cause" to spread what really amounts to propaganda and urban legend. It is one of the reasons that people think animal rights activists are nut-jobs.

 No reason to not be completely informed is all I'm sayin.

Offline Imani's Mom

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 11:10:12 am »
How about a first-hand case?  I live out in the country, five miles from the nearest town.  Early in the morning, I would put our collie pup Dakota out on his exercise run while I got the kids up and ready for school.   This run is 50 ft long, has a nice strong pulley attached to a 20 ft cable, so he had a lot of room to play while he was out there.  This whole setup is only 25ft from my livingroom window, and if I had been standing at the window I would have seen it happen, I am sure.  Anyway, he was out on the run, and I was getting things ready for the kids' school day.  When I went out to bring him in for breakfast, he was gone, but his run and collar with tags were still attached.  He had been out for less than 30 minutes.  Now I *KNOW* he could not slip his collar, and whenever I let him off, the first thing he would do was run for the house, so he would have been right close by if he had gotten loose on his own.  We never saw him again.  The following summer, I was talking to a guy up the road, and it seems the neighbor between my house and the one I was talking to, was raising litters of beagle puppies, about 10 litters a year, and selling them to a class B dealer out of Ohio.  I never had any real evidence to file a case, but it sure seems a bit too much of a coincidence to me.

Weedsport, NY

Offline marinafb

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2006, 11:11:14 am »


maybe you missed the special they had running on HBO not to long ago where they showed people who had stolen other peoples pets and then resold them?
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Offline longshadowfarms

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2006, 01:27:31 pm »
maybe you missed the special they had running on HBO not to long ago where they showed people who had stolen other peoples pets and then resold them?

DH recently investigated a case like this in our area but it fell apart when the people moved just days before he got all the paperwork together to arrest them  >:(
Daphne

Offline leansnslobbers

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2006, 08:06:01 pm »
I have a book called "Stolen For Profit". It is a large book with many many accounts of how these bunchers work. I assure you guys who have doubts, it's not an urban legend. There are heartbreaking photos and testimonials from folks who have been victimized by these bunchers. Tomorrow, when it's not so late, I'd be more than happy to post some excerpts from the book if anyone cares to read them.


Offline marinafb

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2006, 01:11:29 am »
:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Before i moved back in to the city and even after i did there was a dog ring that were stealing purebreeds and reselling them they listed the breeds that they were taking and at that time i had both of them.To me it would'nt matter how much land you have my dogs are NEVER left unsupervised.I have had friends and family tell me you worry to much. All 3 of my dogs are rescues and they are purebreeds but that is not why i rescued them i feel i have to be extra careful in protecting them from people that tell me you have dogs that kill other dogs and attack humans there breed gives them a bad rap. I have done everything in my power to make sure that my dogs are socialized properly trained and well behaved. Which is to my disadvantage becacuse all 3 of mine would go with anyone. The mailman  UPS ,and and the Fed EX man could be there friends.They would most likly bring them back after they realized how spoiled they are!
Freya-9 years collie shepard mix
Milo-6 years Pitt Bull
Bryce-3 years English Mastiff
Mab and Angus cool cats

Nicole

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2006, 01:12:46 am »
I have no question that animals are stolen for profit. One of my bestest friends and BPO member Jenn had her Doberman stolen and sold to another family.

I'm just saying that the evidence for the stolen for RESEARCH aspect of it is a little shaky, in my opinion, and based on the bit of research I did yesterday.

The collie pup stolen? Sure. He probably was. Was he sold to a research facility? Probably not. Were those beagle pups sold to a research facility? Probably not. A Class B dealer is JUST someone that buys animals from random sources. That is all. It does NOT include the designation that the animals are sold for research. And who are these shadowy "reserach facilitites" anyway? They are places like.oh..JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY. HARVARD MEDICAL. DUKE MEDICAL CENTER. Those are what we are talking about when we say "reserach facilities" Oh, and those of major coorporations. ..Bic, Revlon, etc. Not those little rinky-dink research facilities (?) that are implied when we all gasp and think about the bunchers.

Most of the animals stolen and resold are sold to other families and to pet stores. There are only TWENTY Class B dealers in this country. Class B MEANS SOMETHING. The USDA monitors the crap out of them. The only case I could find on the internet yesterday of a busted buncher was one of FRAUD and MONEY LAUNDERING. Which, my friends, is the only way your pet could be sold to a reserach facility without the government knowing. The only way is if the dealer lies. And...when they do, the get busted. The method of checking for these things is pretty hard to cheat. Everyone has to document every step of the way who bought what from who.

No, I didn't see the HBO special about this. Was it about research?


Nicole

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2006, 01:26:08 am »
I like your response, Jenn. Very well said.

That guy that was profiled in that other article was busted for money laundering and mail fraud.

I also would like to say that OF COURSE I don't think that animal research is awesome! Its horrible! But, so is the factory farming industry...and I bet most of the people on this board still buy meat at the grocery store. In many ways, that problem is WAY huger than the animal research problem.

Also, rats and mice are more genetically similar to humans than cats and dogs, and are FAR preferable for research.

Offline marinafb

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2006, 01:57:41 am »


No, I didn't see the HBO special about this. Was it about research?



I believe that the kennel profiled in the HBO special is the kennel that is referenced in the link I provided before.  Again, in this info it states that the US has only 20 licensed Class B dealers in the ENTIRE country.  Out of these dealers, only one has had evidence against them pertaining to theft.

Do dogs get stolen?  Certainly, for a myriad of reasons.  Do Class B dealers sell strays to research facilities?  Yes, its legal.  Do Class B dealers sell dogs from pounds to research facilities?  Yep, also legal.  The thing is, the stolen dogs are such a small, small part of the overall problem.  I'm not saying don't be careful with your dogs.  I learned the hard way on that one.  I'm not saying that it never ever happens.  But, the whole thing, even this thread, is kind of REACTIVE, when we should be being PROACTIVE.

Don't like the way reasearch on animals is handled?  Me neither.  I don't think dogs and cats should be used as test subjects at all.  If we put our energy into stopping the use of pets in research all together, there wouldn't be any reason to worry about our dogs being stolen for research, because no company could buy them.  I think if this is something people are interested in working with, it is important to have ALL the facts though.  Not just those aligned with your side.  Otherwise we'll come off looking like the whacko's that give all of us dog lovers a bad name. 
DITTO DITTO DITTO
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Milo-6 years Pitt Bull
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Offline galxe

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2006, 07:38:53 am »
Well, I'm a child of the devil...

My dad worked in a lab doing animal research for a good portion of time when I was young. So I've got a little cnnection to the "inside" of animal testing.  He worked with Stanford labs. Most of the experiments are done on rats and mice. These animals are purchased from mass dealers.

In the time that he was there, the lab only worked on two studies that involved "pet" animals. The first only used one subject, (I'm sorry, I wish I could remember for certain what the study was for, though I'm pretty sure it was for rheumatoid arthritis) a Golden lab mix named Rudy. He was the lab mascot of sorts, and was well-cared for (3 daily walks even), other than consistent blood tests. He was acquired from a shelter.

The other study used cats for a drug study related to Leukemia. These cats were FeLv positive cats acquired from local shelters and owners. Owners surrendering a pet had to sign contracts and provide vet records to prove that the cat had actually been in their care for at least 6 months.  (In case you were wondering, the study didn't produce much of anything as far as human leukemia, but did aid inthe development of treatments for cats)

Do I think that animal research is good? No. But my point is that, atleast in upstanding research facilities, the possibility of receiving stolen pets is small. Also, testing on "pet" animals other than mice and rats is very rare, for a few reasons, (these reasons given to me by my father):
* The first is the expense involved. Rats and mice are cheaper to feed and a lot easier to house do to their size.
*Their systems mimic ours much more so than cats and dogs
* They can be used in studies that call for lots of test subjects

and, most importantly,

Using dogs and cats is too hard for the researchers. With mice and rats, it's easier to disconnect than with dogs and cats. They've found that the job becomes more stressful and less productive when using pet animals. (The four scientists assigned to the study with Rudy cried when he had to be put to asleep for an unrelated tumor.)

But, my basic, and somewhat long-winded, point is that pet animals are rarely used in medical research, and there is little room for stolen animals.

However, I must add that non-medical testing, such as for cosmetics, etc. is not nearly as regulated, and does not necessarily avoid the use of pet animals. (Though much of their testing focuses on rabbits)

And a final disclaimer, I am not a supporter of animal research. I just wanted the relay the information that I've received from a reliable source.

Nicole

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2006, 09:31:32 am »
Well, I'm a child of the devil...

My dad worked in a lab doing animal research for a good portion of time when I was young. So I've got a little cnnection to the "inside" of animal testing.  He worked with Stanford labs. Most of the experiments are done on rats and mice. These animals are purchased from mass dealers.

In the time that he was there, the lab only worked on two studies that involved "pet" animals. The first only used one subject, (I'm sorry, I wish I could remember for certain what the study was for, though I'm pretty sure it was for rheumatoid arthritis) a Golden lab mix named Rudy. He was the lab mascot of sorts, and was well-cared for (3 daily walks even), other than consistent blood tests. He was acquired from a shelter.

The other study used cats for a drug study related to Leukemia. These cats were FeLv positive cats acquired from local shelters and owners. Owners surrendering a pet had to sign contracts and provide vet records to prove that the cat had actually been in their care for at least 6 months.  (In case you were wondering, the study didn't produce much of anything as far as human leukemia, but did aid inthe development of treatments for cats)

Do I think that animal research is good? No. But my point is that, atleast in upstanding research facilities, the possibility of receiving stolen pets is small. Also, testing on "pet" animals other than mice and rats is very rare, for a few reasons, (these reasons given to me by my father):
* The first is the expense involved. Rats and mice are cheaper to feed and a lot easier to house do to their size.
*Their systems mimic ours much more so than cats and dogs
* They can be used in studies that call for lots of test subjects

and, most importantly,

Using dogs and cats is too hard for the researchers. With mice and rats, it's easier to disconnect than with dogs and cats. They've found that the job becomes more stressful and less productive when using pet animals. (The four scientists assigned to the study with Rudy cried when he had to be put to asleep for an unrelated tumor.)

But, my basic, and somewhat long-winded, point is that pet animals are rarely used in medical research, and there is little room for stolen animals.

However, I must add that non-medical testing, such as for cosmetics, etc. is not nearly as regulated, and does not necessarily avoid the use of pet animals. (Though much of their testing focuses on rabbits)

And a final disclaimer, I am not a supporter of animal research. I just wanted the relay the information that I've received from a reliable source.

Thank you for such an eloquent and informed response.

Offline marinafb

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Re: FREE TO GOOD HOME PLEASE READ
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2006, 07:27:10 am »
My mom is a Dr of Endocrinology in Philly and when they do research experiments not only did they use dogs but rabbits, cats and monkeys. She informs me that goes on more than anyone wants to believe. She now has a office at the VA Hospital plus travels and lectures all over the world. My Dad loves dogs but she never allowed us to have a pet when we were growing up. I have always loved dogs and knew when I was on my own I would have more than 1 dog!
Freya-9 years collie shepard mix
Milo-6 years Pitt Bull
Bryce-3 years English Mastiff
Mab and Angus cool cats