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Great Pyrenees => Great Pyrenees Discussions => : MarleyPyr January 20, 2008, 12:27:27 PM
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I am so at a loss. :'(
Marley has responded well to hanging out for awhile in the basement where it is cool and chewing on a bone WHILE WE ARE THERE WITH HIM. Once it is bedtime, we cries...to the point were I honestly was worried about his wellbeing. I tried bringing him into our bedroom with us and he still cried.... I let him have the run of the house to see if he would like to pick his own comfy spot...he sobbed... All he wanted was to go sleep outside. BUT the minute he goes out he barks..so we really can't let him carry on barking all night anymore. Last night after about 2 hours we put him in the garage and he cried himself to sleep. I get choked up just writing that. I don't have kids so perhaps I haven't toughened up like some of you when it comes to knowing the difference between a pup wanting to get their way and letting them cry (although after 3 hours...??) and - is there something really wrong with my dog?
Bones, treats, games all work until it is bedtime.... I feel sooo discuraged. If he didn't bark ALL the time outside I would happily oblige to letting him spend his time there but that is what got me into all this in the first place. Is there a dog whisperer out there?? I am desperate...
Marley's mom
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Well I'm not the dog whisper but I will say a tired dog is a good dog..Have you tried as good night time workout before bedtime?
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I definitely would leave him where he can be with his humans not locked away in the basement or garage But during the transition where he is learning to be in the house at night why don't you give him some Benadryl to help him sleep.
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I definitely would leave him where he can be with his humans not locked away in the basement or garage But during the transition where he is learning to be in the house at night why don't you give him some Benadryl to help him sleep.
Benadryl? is that safe to do? what does it do?
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Benadryl is ok for dogs - it's an antihistamine with a fabulous sleepy side effect. It's over the counter and safe. I've given it to my dog after she ate a bee and had a swollen face. Marley will adjust, but it takes time. Three or four hours will turn into two hours, then one, etc. Keep him with you (use earplugs). A hearty nighttime (outdoor) play time would be really helpful, too. Good luck, and hang in there. (By the way, I had to let one of my skin kids "cry it out", and he did cry for two hours. It was the hardest two hours of my life!!!) Oh, and what they tell parents about kids will work for you as well - no one ever got hurt or died from crying. It sounds awful and breaks your heart to the very core, but he won't hurt himself doing it. :)
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I would concur with the evening workout. Benadryl will work but is probably not a road you want to go down unless it is total deperation as it is not really adressing the issue. As far as where to leave him, I would leave him in the house, it does not need to be in your room but definatly not in the garage. If he can hear you sleep/snore/etc... it will help establish he has not been abandoned (sepration anxiety). White noise at a quiet level can also help with this. A radio tuned to a "non station" at a quiet volume can help.
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With Benadryl, you may have to play with the dosage to get it high enough to get the drowsy effect. Max takes it for his allergies, 169lvs and takes 5 25mg, 3 times daily, with no change in his activity level or sleepy side effects. Your dog's weight will determine how much you can safely give. Call your vet and see what they think and recommend. We give Jake Melatonin to calm him during storms and when we leave the house. He weighs 98lbs. and takes 2 or 3, 3mg. There are other calming drugs available that are safe to give dogs. You just have to find the right one for your dog. Remember, you are only going to give the dog something to calm them, in order to get them through the adjustment phase and then they take nothing, as they will have adapted to being in the house. The hardest thing to deal with, in my experience, when adapting a dog to something they are unfamiliar with, is to totally ignore the whining, crying, etc. If you pet them or try to physically or verbally calm them, you are reinforcing the very behaviour you are trying to eliminate. By petting or talking to the dog, to get them to shut up, you are telling them that if they whine and cry, you will love on them, therefore, in their mind, they should continue to do this to get your attention. Remember, even negative attention, yelling at them, or scolding them, is still attention and is preferable to an upset dog to being ignored. I'm not saying you are yelling at the dog, just that it doesn't help either. Good luck.
Kathy
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I know how the crying goes Bryce is very good at it! It breaks your heart i think with time he will get use to being inside it will just take time battle of the wills. I know it might be hard to listen to but maybe if you could keep him in the area you are in he might get use to it! I should talk i give in to Bryce when he moans or crys! Marina
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How about the human taking the benadryl (or something better) to help them sleep? hehe. Im only kidding! ;) I know that ODIN goes through a periodic (almost like HE IS IN HEAT) week long (2x a year) where he is like super wrestless and whines and continually goes to the door.....when we let him out, he like 'supersniffs' and marks everything (not his normal behavior). His body emits a pheramone that i can smell (i think im part canine because i smell things the avg cannot and hear very high pitches and have an instinct about bad people that most dont have). After taking him in and nothing was wrong, we were like-ENOUGH whining to go out. ALL DAY LONG FOR 5 days! And that smell.....not like stinky pee or worm smell (for which he was checked) or infection. That is usually a 'honey, can you pick me up a good red on the way home....YOUR hormonal son is driving me nuts' and ODIN, crate and all, get to visit the garage for a while. :) Then as swiftly as it appeared and just when i'm about to rethink my affection (not really but i understand how some animals eat their young), he's back to his comfortable and sweet self (and his skin no longer stinks).
I feel for ya with the persistent whining. And with big dogs, an evening jog may wear that "you know what" out-and make for a peaceful night! ;) good luck
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As far as where to leave him, I would leave him in the house, it does not need to be in your room but definatly not in the garage.
I love everyone's ability to comment and share on here, so please don't take this the wrong way .. I am just curious - why do some of you comment on his sleeping in the garage as if it was not a good thing? It is confusing as it seems to be the place he is the most comfortable (besides outside) and he cries and whines less when he goes to sleep in there as opposed to when I try and get him to sleep closer to us. I have tried setting up his bed directly next to mine and he goes into panting and pacing fits. If he is MORE comfortable in the garage is it so bad that that is where we decide to leave him?
I ask only for further information not to dismiss what you have offered as far as advice. I appreciate all the advice and experiences everyone shares here.
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My concern with the garage is it is not a climate controlled environment. If he gets used to it now and loves it what are you going to do come summertime if it is hot/muggy? You could end up creating a siutation whewre you will have to extract your dog from the area they are most accustomed to sleeping. Essentially you could be setting yourself up for issues down stream. If your climate is moderate enough where this is not an issue I do not see an issue with the garage if it is indeed where he is most comfortable.
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The only problem with the garage is the separation from his pack (you) He is already stressed and being with his pack may help him in his adjustment period. All my Pyrs come in at night but if I separate one and send to the basement they get hysterical! Left to roam the house they soon settle in whatever position they feel is appropriate for guarding. If I put them in the basement we will both be up all night.
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MarlyPyr,
I'm no expert and i'm only speaking from my experience. I can't imaging the garage is a BAD place for your baby as long as he's comfortable there and you obviously aren't suggesting abandoning him there as a permanent place.
During Thanksgiving, Odin spent the days in the garage just due in part to size and number of people but he had a mattress, his crate, and cozy comforts-including a ginormous bone. He was fine.......alb eit, I don't live in freezing temps either! :)
I'm not sure if the experts would agree but maybe a slow integration into the house at night instead of dramatic 'im comfy in the garage' to 'u r sleeping in my room'....which obviously isn't working and NO ONE is getting sleep. I'm sure if you keep reading someone will have that 'aha....why didn't I think of that' idea that will work for you and your baby.
Grumpy fatigued parents are not effective parents in my opinion....lol ...n I know grumpy!
So many of the comments here are excellent and come frome people who have a vast experience with a lot of issues and what has worked for them in similar situations but aside from a few 'trolls', I haven't seen anything but kindness, love and expert advice so maybe someone who was trying to get better understanding.
I'll never forget a friend of my exes who owned a samoyed (or samoyan...or what ever that giant white lion was called) and in -20 that darned animal LOVED it outside in the snow. He was built for those conditions.... at night, that guy slept in the garge-he was comfy and happy. He was a rescue that came from a family that had shaved him because they thought he had too much fur and he went from sweet n proud to pissed off immediately. He would hang his head in shame! When he got his coat back, he had some issues with aggression but was QUICKLY brought to his place by the owner. To me, its kind of like letting my kids sleep with their bedroom lights on-they are scared of the dark and as long as they are healthy n comfy, it doesn't hurt me and they are more secure and sleep but over time, their need for light has gone away and we have a dark house at night now-through patience and understanding.
The BPO crew are fantastic helping in areas that I may not know about....and I'm a much better mommy to odin in 2.5 months than I could ever have done solo! :) HANG IN THERE!!!! {hugs}
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Is your garage attached to the main house?? maybe you could install a doggy door in the door that leads to the garage, then he can just go where he wants to. If he's too warm in your room then he can move to the garage, and vise versa so he's not isolated from the pack. That's just my two cents though ;).
Also, my girl Naja sleeps in my room. I have a big fan going all night for her, it keeps her nice and cool, and I like the white noise of it. I just put extra blankets on my bed to keep myself warm. ;) :)
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I think the garage is probably better suited for him because it is like the outdoors to him. Thats probably why he is more comfortable there. I like the idea of a dog door so if he wants to come in he can. Pyrenees, are loners though, aren't they? They prefer to be by themselves, is what I have been told. Maybe that is why he likes it out in the garage and outside.
We had to show tough love on our newf when we first got her home too. We have a boarding kennel, at the time not busy, she had to go sleep there, so everyone could sleep in the house. She spent two months sleeping out there at night, and then got to come into the house, finally, and it was better. We did have to ignore her, but the crying didn't last long.
For our wolfhound pups we just waited it out.
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I agree with Karateblossom. ..if your garage is set up correctly, dog proofed and climate controlled (insulated garage) then if that's where the dog will sleep, let him sleep there. I agree that you have to commit to this and maybe he will never be an inside sleeper, but if you are okay with that for the long run, then okay.
I posted a couple of weeks ago about Kana not wanting to come inside at night. We all went back and forth about the reasons why (too hot inside, needs space)and the BPO'ers had great advice, but in the end you have to be comfortable to make your own decisions that fit your life and your dog. If the dog is safe and quiet...what's the problem?
The dog door is a great solution to the problem if it's feasable. Tha's what we did.
By the way, Kana's outdoor sleeping phase has come to an end. He is back in the house at night, sleeping next to mom where she wants him :-*!
Please keep us updated about the progress!!! Hopefully you will have a resolution soon so that you can sleep soundly at night!!!!!
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Thank you everyone for all the advise!! I really appreciate your time letting me know how you have handled things. It helps.
As an update, Marley is coming in at night around 7pm and we play with him in the basement and he settles in while we watch a bit of tv. He seems to be ok down there when we are there and it gets him comfortable in the house bit by bit. At bedtime he goes into the garage. He whines for about 5-10 min still and it gets less each night. We set up a nice bed and some blankets and some of his favorite "guys" (stuffed animals). He seems settle in and go to bed just fine. The garage is attached to the house and half insulated - I added a heater/dehumidifier in there and it keeps the damp chill out but it is still really cold... Marley loves that though. I think that is one of the main reasons he has an uncomfortable time in the house. I am going to try an ultrasonic device to see if during the day it helps with the barking. He is outside from 5AM until he comes in at 7pm but I don't find the daytime barking as bothersome to most people compared to at night time.
For now it is working for us. When the ground thaws in the spring we are going to move his dog run and outside house into the back yard and fence in the yard on three sides and then maybe we can let him be in his glory of outdoors 24/7...
Thanks everyone! This site rocks! :)