No! He's a Landseer, Dangit!

[Landseer_Girl]

If I ever see you or another landseer I will make sure to call him one.

you talkin' to me?

[arkydo]

The only thing that really seperates a Newfoundland and a Landseer, is an artist named Landseer who loved to Picture Newfoundlands. He was very particular because they had to have a lot of white on them. But yes nowadays they are treated as a different breed.

[Landseer_Girl]

The only thing that really seperates a Newfoundland and a Landseer, is an artist named Landseer who loved to Picture Newfoundlands. He was very particular because they had to have a lot of white on them. But yes nowadays they are treated as a different breed.

thank you! they're treated as a separate breed because they ARE a separate breed. anyone who knows both breeds at least moderately well can see that they just look different... not to mention that the ECT are usually also more active in temperament than the Newfoundland.

[arkydo]

but in reality they're not.
The only thing helping them is people have continued to breed landseer's giving them a deceptive profile as a different breed
at the end of the day They're Both Newfies

[Landseer_Girl]

they are two separate breeds! the ECT has a longer muzzle, longer legs and is taller than the Newf! their undercoat is not as dense as the Newfoundland's, as well. those are good enough reasons to be considered a separate breed. ..

[GreatPyr]

In reading on the pyrs,I had read that they used a pyr and the well found of Labs of England to create the Landseer? For size but give him the sporty look and action of a more sporty type of Newf.. I also read that Newfies do have pyr in there anciestory(If thats a word) and the Leons as well,the pyrs are far older in ancestory and was used in creating several giant breeds.I also read that the Landseers where a bred in themselfs..sep erate breed.

Now granted this is all reading from the Pyr sites about the G Pyrs,i Have read alot of the history and including in that the pyrs that help create certain dogs.

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

OK..so this is interesting to me... i don't know a lot about the newfie or the landseer..i have never heard of the landseer again, so sorry for my ignorance when i ask the following question. So newfie's are only black and brown right? and the landseer has more white???I know that there are many different things...so don't get mad at me, i am just wondering...fr om a far if i see something that looks like a newfie, and it is black and white then it is a landseer? also what kenne lclub are they apart of?

lauren

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

 Newfoundland Breed Standard
Working Group

General Appearance
The Newfoundland is a sweet-dispositioned dog that acts neither dull nor ill-tempered. He is a devoted companion. A multipurpose dog, at home on land and in water, the Newfoundland is capable of draft work and possesses natural lifesaving abilities.

The Newfoundland is a large, heavily coated, well balanced dog that is deep-bodied, heavily boned, muscular, and strong. A good specimen of the breed has dignity and proud head carriage.

The following description is that of the ideal Newfoundland. Any deviation from this ideal is to be penalized to the extent of the deviation. Structural and movement faults common to all working dogs are as undesirable in the Newfoundland as in any other breed, even though they are not specifically mentioned herein.

Size, Proportion, Substance 
Average height for adult dogs is 28 inches, for adult bitches, 26 inches. Approximate weight of adult dogs ranges from 130 to 150 pounds, adult bitches from 100 to 120 pounds. The dog's appearance is more massive throughout than the bitch's. Large size is desirable, but never at the expense of balance, structure, and correct gait. The Newfoundland is slightly longer than tall when measured from the point of shoulder to point of buttocks and from withers to ground. He is a dog of considerable substance which is determined by spring of rib, strong muscle, and heavy bone.

Head
The head is massive, with a broad skull, slightly arched crown, and strongly developed occipital bone. Cheeks are well developed. Eyes are dark brown. (Browns and Grays may have lighter eyes and should be penalized only to the extent that color affects expression.) They are relatively small, deep-set, and spaced wide apart. Eyelids fit closely with no inversion. Ears are relatively small and triangular with rounded tips. They are set on the skull level with, or slightly above, the brow and lie close to the head. When the ear is brought forward, it reaches to the inner corner of the eye on the same side. Expression is soft and reflects the characteristic s of the breed: benevolence, intelligence, and dignity.

Forehead and face are smooth and free of wrinkles. Slope of the stop is moderate but, because of the well developed brow, it may appear abrupt in profile. The muzzle is clean-cut, broad throughout its length, and deep. Depth and length are approximately equal, the length from tip of nose to stop being less than that from stop to occiput. The top of the muzzle is rounded, and the bridge, in profile, is straight or only slightly arched. Teeth meet in a scissors or level bite. Dropped lower incisors, in an otherwise normal bite, are not indicative of a skeletal malocclusion and should be considered only a minor deviation.

Neck, Topline, Body
The neck is strong and well set on the shoulders and is long enough for proud head carriage. The back is strong, broad, and muscular and is level from just behind the withers to the croup. The chest is full and deep with the brisket reaching at least down to the elbows. Ribs are well sprung, with the anterior third of the rib cage tapered to allow elbow clearance. The flank is deep. The croup is broad and slopes slightly. Tail--Tail set follows the natural line of the croup. The tail is broad at the base and strong. It has no kinks, and the distal bone reaches to the hock. When the dog is standing relaxed, its tail hangs straight or with a slight curve at the end. When the dog is in motion or excited, the tail is carried out, but it does not curl over the back.

Forequarters
Shoulders are muscular and well laid back. Elbows lie directly below the highest point of the withers. Forelegs are muscular, heavily boned, straight, and parallel to each other, and the elbows point directly to the rear. The distance from elbow to ground equals about half the dog's height. Pasterns are strong and slightly sloping. Feet are proportionate to the body in size, webbed, and cat foot in type. Dewclaws may be removed.

Hindquarters
The rear assembly is powerful, muscular, and heavily boned. Viewed from the rear, the legs are straight and parallel. Viewed from the side, the thighs are broad and fairly long. Stifles and hocks are well bent and the line from hock to ground is perpendicular. Hocks are well let down. Hind feet are similar to the front feet. Dewclaws should be removed.

Coat
The adult Newfoundland has a flat, water-resistant, double coat that tends to fall back into place when rubbed against the nap. The outer coat is coarse, moderately long, and full, either straight or with a wave. The undercoat is soft and dense, although it is often less dense during the summer months or in warmer climates. Hair on the face and muzzle is short and fine. The backs of the legs are feathered all the way down. The tail is covered with long dense hair. Excess hair may be trimmed for neatness. Whiskers need not be trimmed.

Color
Color is secondary to type, structure, and soundness. Recognized Newfoundland colors are black, brown, gray, and white and black.

Solid Colors--Blacks, Browns, and Grays may appear as solid colors or solid colors with white at any, some, or all, of the following locations: chin, chest, toes, and tip of tail. Any amount of white found at these locations is typical and is not penalized. Also typical are a tinge of bronze on a black or gray coat and lighter furnishings on a brown or gray coat.

Landseer--White base coat with black markings. Typically, the head is solid black, or black with white on the muzzle, with or without a blaze. There is a separate black saddle and black on the rump extending onto a white tail.

Markings, on either Solid Colors or Landseers, might deviate considerably from those described and should be penalized only to the extent of the deviation. Clear white or white with minimal ticking is preferred.
Beauty of markings should be considered only when comparing dogs of otherwise comparable quality and never at the expense of type, structure and soundness.

Disqualificati ons-- Any colors or combinations of colors not specifically described are disqualified.

Gait
The Newfoundland in motion has good reach, strong drive, and gives the impression of effortless power. His gait is smooth and rhythmic, covering the maximum amount of ground with the minimum number of steps. Forelegs and hind legs travel straight forward. As the dog's speed increases, the legs tend toward single tracking. When moving, a slight roll of the skin is characteristic of the breed. Essential to good movement is the balance of correct front and rear assemblies.

Temperament
Sweetness of temperament is the hallmark of the Newfoundland; this is the most important single characteristic of the breed.

Disqualificati ons
Any colors or combinations of colors not specifically described are disqualified.

So...the landseer is in the same group as the newfie!!!! Gotcha...shoul d have done research first...

[ptkennel]

interesting read.....
Black Mom + Landseer Dad = Black puppies (landseer recesive)
2years later..that black puppy + Black Dad = black puppies...
2years later..that black puppy + Landseer dad = landseer puppies.....
2years later..that black puppy + Black Dad who is landseer recesive = landseer puppies
In Canada the CKC says the Newfoundland and the Landseer are the same.

here are a few pics, sorry can't get a picture of Dad right now.....he is a landseer
edit: found the pic

[ptkennel]

In Canada, the CKC refuses to recognize Browns and greys.....but they can all come from black parents...its all in the genes

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

what makes him a landseer...? what makes them differnt from a newfie?

[ptkennel]

I should have explained better... A landseer is a Newfoundland, it is white and black. I have been told it is a white dog with black markings

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

So when you have a litter, the way you can tell is that there is more white on the dog...so basically...a landseer is just color and a few differences in size?

[AnnaCrew]

I had a Lanseer about 10 years ago, and my friend - Newfie. Seing them together, I would say that Lanseer head is not as broad as newfie, and there are some other slight differences. I wolder is it the same idea like LH and shorthaired saints from one litter have  slightly different body structure as well?

But here is oficial European standard by FCI
FCI-Standard N°226  / 01.10.1997/ GB

LANDSEER
(European Continental Type, Ect)

 
TRANSLATION : Mrs. Matenaar.

ORIGIN : Germany / Switzerland.

DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THE ORIGINAL VALID STANDARD : 24.08.1960.

UTILIZATION : Guard Dog, Companion.

CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. :    Group 2   Pinscher and Schnauzer-
      Molossoid breeds- Swiss
      Mountain and Cattle
      Dogs and other breeds.
   Section 2.2   Molossoid breeds,         Mountain type.
   Without working trial.

GENERAL APPEARANCE : The Landseer should convey the impression of a tall, powerful and well balanced dog.  The legs are comparatively longer than those of the black Newfoundland - especially in the male.

HEAD : Scalp should be free from wrinkles, covered with short, fine hair.  Head should be strikingly modelled, with noble expression.

CRANIAL REGION :
Skull : Broad and massive with well developed occipital protuberance. 
Stop : Decided, however not as pronounced and steep as in the Saint Bernard Dog.

FACIAL REGION :
Nose : Black.
Muzzle : Length of muzzle is equal to depth of muzzle measured in front of the stop.
Lips : Clean, black ; the as tight as possible and no drivelling upper lip slightly overlapping the lower.
Jaws/Teeth : Scissor bite.
Cheeks : Moderately developed, gradually tapering into the muzzle.
Eyes : Medium size, moderately deep set, brown to darkbrown, lightbrown to be tolerated, friendly expression, almond shaped, showing no haw.  Pronouncedly light eyes ( sulphur or greyish yellow) are faulty, as well as eyes set too close together.
Ears : Medium size. Reaching inner corner of eyes, when drawn out.  Triangular shape, with slightly rounded tips.  Set high on head, however not too far back.  Carried close and flat to sides of head.  Ears covered with short, fine hair.  Fringes of longer hair to be found only at back part of root of ear. 

NECK : The neck- muscular and broad - should not be quite round but rather eggshaped in cross-section, symmetrically set and obliquely placed in shoulders.  Length of neck from occiput to withers to be approximately ¾ to 4/5 the length from occiput  to tip of nose.  Pronounced dewlap undesirable.

BODY : The length measured from withers to set on of tail should be about twice the length of the head.  Wide and strong from withers to croup.
Back : Straight and level.
Loin : Muscular.
Croup : Broad, well rounded at sides and backwards by powerful bolster of muscles.
Chest : Between the very muscular shoulders the chest is deep and broad corresponding to well sprung ribs.
Belly : Slightly tucked up.  Clearly visible flat depression between belly and loin.  Weak or hollow back, weak loins, too short false ribs and too much tuck-up of the belly are faults.

TAIL : Strong, reaching slightly below hocks at the most, well covered with dense, bushy hair, however not flaglike.  Tail should hang downwards when standing or at ease, with a slight curve at end permissible.  May carry tail straight out, with only a slight curve at end, when moving.  Tails with a kink or curled over back are most objectionable.
LIMBS

FOREQUARTERS : Strong muscles descending from shoulders and surrounding a well boned humerus are connected in correct angulation to the massive bones of the seen from front absolutely straight and muscular fore-legs.  Legs slightly fringed down to pastern.
Elbows : Close to body at the lowest point of brisket ; distance from ground to elbows rather high ; elbows pointing straight to the rear.

HINDQUARTERS : The hindquarters are throughout very sturdy.  Hindlegs to move freely ; they should have strong bone embedded by powerful muscles.  Hindlegs to be moderately fringed.
Upper thighs : Especially broad.
Dewclaws : They are objectionable ; they should be removed as soon as possible after birth.  Cowhocks or insufficient angulation are faulty.

FEET : Large, well shaped cat-feet.  Splayed or turned out feet are objectionable.  Toes connected by webbing, which should be strong, almost reaching tip of toes.

GAIT/MOVEMENT : Movement of the well musceled legs should  present a free, long stride, covering ground well.

COAT

HAIR : The top coat - with exception of the head - should be long and as straight and dense as possible, soft to the touch, with good undercoat, which is not as dense as in the black Newfoundland.  Slightly wavy coat on back and hindquarters is not objectionable.   When brushed wrong way it falls back into place naturally. 

COLOUR : Main colour of coat is a clear white with distinct black patches on body and croup.  Collar, forechest, belly, legs and tail must be white.  Head black, with white muzzle and white symmetrical blaze - neither too narrow, nor too wide - extending from muzzle over head to the white collar, being considered  a definite breeding goal.  Ticking still occuring in the white not to be penalized, but should be bred away.

SIZE : Height at shoulders :
Dogs    : 72 to 80 cm ( 28,5 to 31,5 inches)
Bitches : 67 to 72 cm ( 26,5 to 28,5 inches).
Small deviations below or above to be tolerated.

FAULTS : Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree.

Any dog clearly showing physical or behavioural abnormalities shall be disqualified.

N.B. : Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.

So you can compare the desriptions and make your owndecissions.

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

oh awsome!!! Thank you so much!!! I get it.....