Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Training Forum => Behavior, Housebreaking, Obedience => : Lena February 02, 2007, 12:39:15 PM
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Hi, everybody. I'm Lena. I'm from New York and I am a fairly new mommy to Herman. Herman is an 8-month-old mixed breed hound. There's no way to be sure of his breed, but he looks to be some type of black & tan coonhound/shepherd/mountain dog/something-or-other. I adopted Herman from a rescue organization when he was 7 weeks old. (I also have a 7-year old Corgi-shep named Ellie and 2 cats.) Me and my husband are musicians. We live in an average-sized apartment in Queens, New York and we also have a cabin and some land in the Catskill mountains which we frequent from spring thru autumn.
Herman just keeps growing bigger and bigger and his energy is boundless. I love him dearly - love him more each day -but he is such a handful that it is unreal. I needed to join this list to just feel like I had a support group to turn to, I swear. I have had dogs for most of my life, and yet nothing has prepared me for life with Herman.Â
Without going into too many of the gory details....One of my main concerns is walking with Herman...I have a very shakey, shattered ankle ever since a serious accident some years ago. While I can walk at a mild pace, I cannot get around as easily or quickly as I used to and I can be pulled off-balance pretty quickly. Herman can be a good boy, but if he sees something or someone he wants to get at, he will lunge on the leash with a strength that literally pulls my arm out of it's socket or pulls MY ENTIRE BODY into the air - and I am not a petite woman. ::) I have used Cesar Milan's walking tips and some of them work, but when Herm is really on a tear, it's still scary. As it is, there is no way I can walk both of my dogs at the same time anymore, because Herman constantly badgers Ellie vigorously and tries to wrestle with the poor little thing while we're walking and almost knocks me on my butt in the process.
Another concern is bringing Herman up to our mountains retreat. I am so afraid that he will start tracking something and run away and end up either lost in the dense woods of our remote mountain or find his way down on to a highway somewhere. I am having major anxiety anticipating springtime and how I will handle him THEN if he is as unruly, and strong as an ox right now at only 8 months. He seems like the type of dog who would love nothing better than to run, lope, and hunt endlessly. Unfortunately, I could never join him on such grueling expeditions. Our terrain is very wild, steep and rough. We have alot of coyotes, bear and porcupines also. Any suggestions on how to handle this? Anyone? Please? I need to have hope.
I long to enjoy the new addition to our family - he is so wonderful and such a beautiful spirit in so many ways - but worrying about him is over-shadowing everything for me.
Anyhow - nice to meet you all. Your dogs are all so pretty. I will post some pix soon.
Peace,
Lena
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hi and welcome to bpo! i'm mom to axle (akita) sheeba (akita chow) diesel and scout (danes) and caine (pitbull). i've found that the halti leads / gentle leads work REALLY well, on the same concept that the horse halters do. some others brought up another things on here, but for the life of me i can't remember what it was called. maybe one of them will see this post! the halti leads keep their head in check, and where the head goes the body will follow! it keeps them from pulling, i can walk all 5 of my dogs (two right around 75lbs, the other 3 over 100lbs) at once when i use one on each of them. this might also help with walking both of them, b/c if you keep a short leash he won't be able to get his head down to torment your smaller dog. one tip though, is to bring them into the store to get a good fit b/c if it's too loose it will come off and if it's too tight it might rub and irritate his face. we use miniature horse halters instead of gentle leads (basically the same thing just a different name) because they are so much more adjustable, and a lot cheaper. as for keeping him near at your vacation house, i'm not too sure. we don't do long distance recall, but some others on here do, so maybe they'll have tips for you!
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Hi, schelmischekit ty -
Great to hear from you. Yes, I have seen those halti leads. It's definitely worth a try. I have so many different contraptions, what's one more...? Actually, I do use one of those soft, canvas "box" muzzles for Herman on the occasion when I MUST walk both dogs together and quickly and without incident. This at least keeps him from hassling Ellie, but he rubs his muzzle on fences, the ground, etc., trying to remove it. He just becomes consumed with removing it and has even laid down in the middle of the street rubbing his face on the ground. He is a real trip.
SO! The halti is something I will look into next. And I look forward to hearing from others here, too. Thanks so much for writing.
P.S. - You have a full house, don't you! Dog lovers rule!
Peace,
Lena
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what you might try is to put the halti lead on without a leash and do obedience with him and reward him with treats. that way he'll forget the halti lead is on, and he'll get more comfortable in it. take a few days to a week with this, then walk just him with it on and use treats and reassure him with praise and treats while it's on. eventually he'll get the idea that the halti lead isn't the end of the world ha ha. our dogs always act a fool the first time we've put it on them, but after we bribe them (it takes about a month to get completely used to it) they do great! we also let ours wear them around the house because i can't walk them as much as i'd like. you can pretty much expect them to act a fool and rear up and twist and turn and act like an "animal" literally the first few times they're on it with a leash, but just like leash training / collar training them, they get used to the idea and learn that they go for walks when they see it! oh, my name is steffanie (it's in my signature in case you forget, because there are SO many people on bpo ha ha, i even forget ppls real names) i forgot to tell you my real name ha ha.
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i definately have to agree with the head halter, i got fumble a gentle leader and it was like walking a completely different dog! but you definately have to get them used to it first!! the gentle leaders come with a training dvd to help both you and your dog get aquanted to the leader! good luck!! and welcome!!!
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i feel cheated, i never got a dvd or even a booklet :-\ it just came in a box... guess the post it note that said "teach yourself" got lost in shipping ha ha.
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Hi, Fumble - (which is probably your dog's name and not yours, either...haha. ..o brother) great to hear from you!
I just know Herman will go nuts with the halti leader. But I gotta try SOMEthing...or risk flying through the air again. Not pleasant.
I posted a picture of me and Herman when he was only 7 weeks old, about 3 days before I brought him home. Since then, he's at least 6 X that size and I've lost some weight - purely from trying to keep up with him. I guess that's a good thing. Raising Herman is like joining a gym that forces you to attend 24/7. Like boot-camp.
Now I just need some advice about how to handle the lad up in the wilderness...
:o
~Lena
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tina is this something like you use?
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441774897&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032900&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1170448248678&itemNo=8&In=Dog&N=2032900&Ne=2
i've also heard of little whistles that attach to the leashes and make a high pitched sound when they pull, not sure if they work or not though. here's the link to it
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441781983&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032900&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1170448382407&itemNo=19&Nao=12&In=Dog&N=2032900&Ne=2
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then like this
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441813427&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032961&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1170448835725&itemNo=4&In=Dog&N=2032961&Ne=2
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I do have an Easy Walk harnass - the one you're talking about, made by Gentle Leader... and it seemed to * kinda * work for awhile with Herman when he was a bit smaller.
What it does is, when they pull you, it sort of spins 'em around to face you. But you know what? He got used to this concept pretty quick and it made no difference to him after awhile - he began lunging away regardless.
::)
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thats no fun, that's why we haven't tried that with our dogs, i know it won't make a diff b/c they're so hard headed ha ha
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Hi, Tina - I just now saw your post. Thank you for responding. It is reassuring to hear from someone who has similar issues to deal with. I'm sorry to hear about your arthritis. Sometimes my ankle is so arthritic it simply will not bend. Not good dog-walking mode, for sure, lurching around unevenly and being pulled and pummeled to boot. Walking a large breed is hard enough without the whammy of a handicap, right? :'( To his credit, Chris (my husband) is a big help with the walking whenever I ask him. But with our schedules, I am the one who spends the most time with our dogs. And although he loves them, Chris has never had pets before I came along and he could honestly be content without the huge responsibility of having dogs in his life. I, on the other hand, have always had dogs and will always want at least one by my side in this life. :-*
Herman passed his basic obedience with flying colors. He is smart as a whip in many ways...."COME" was a big issue with me from the beginning, making sure he knew that command was a priority. So, he does great with it in the house and in our fenced-in yard in Queens. It's the mountain home that concerns me. He just gets so excited - hysterical with joy almost - even when we exercise him in the local park on his retractable leash (26 feet) ... my gut tells me that he would take off and very well not heed "COME" if he were free-as-a-bird-unleashed.
This kills me, because I'd truly love to be able to let him run independently now and then. It does not help that my husband argues with me on it - he's like: "GIVE IT A TRY - LET HIM RUN - HAVE SOME FAITH THAT HE WILL COME BACK." I wish it were that easy for me, but it is not.
Anyhow, I do have faith in Herman. He IS getting a little better every day. It's all about patience, etc., and I feel that this forum will help me. Talking to you and others is already lifting my spirits...
Thanks again for writing!
Peace,
Lena
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i know how coming back is a prob! axle will come to me all day, no problem, except once. we went to the lake a good few miles out of fort bragg, where they did a lot of live round firing in the area, and we let axle off and he disappeared! it took a whole day of searching to find out he was on the other side of the lake in the woods just watching us the whole time :-\
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Omigod, Steffanie - I think I would have had a stroke well before I ever found Axle after a WHOLE day on the other side of the lake. Maybe I'm a head-case but that would have really thrown me for a loop.
:o
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i was hysterical, bawling the whole time (axle is my baby and has been there for me through a lot and i can't imagine life without him) and yelling at my hubby b/c it was HIS idea after all to let our two dogs run lose. he didn't think about all the new smells combined with the fact axle hates to swim to start with haha. ask hubby, all he heard was "axle won't know what to do! how's he gonna eat!!" the whole day ::) now that i look back it's funny b/c axle was watching me the WHOLE time, and i know he was b/c hubby just happened to look up on the hill on the other side and see axle sitting there looking at us.
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Hi and welcome to the board. I have generally trained my pups for off leash work since they were puppies. Shiner is the one that I am worried about not recalling off leash but if the girls are with him he will come back with them. I know this since the great prison yard break last week when they all three were loose in the neighborhood. Anyway, if there is a fenced dog park near you, take Herman there and start working on the off-leash recall. That way he is in a larger fenced area than your yard but still safe.
I have a gentle leader for Cinder and she will try and rub it off but once she realizes that's not acceptable then she settles down. I don't use one on Kaila or Shiner. I hope that helps.
Nearly forgot to mention that I use the command to "stay close" when they are off-leash and they generally stay within a 30-50 foot radius of me when we are out in the woods are in a park.
Kat
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Hi and Welcome, I used to use a halti for Hoover but he doesn't need it anymore. When I first put it on him he acted like a wild beast that I had captured and was trying to kill ::) I made him wear it around the house to get him used to it as well. Now for your cabin ~ if he has any type of hound in him I wouldn't let him off lead ~ when they catch a scent they turn their listening ears off and can't turn that part of the brain back on until they find whats making that wonderful smell. Before Libby I had a Redtick Coonhound, that was smart as smart could be until she got a sniff. Can you a) attach a running line that his flexi could be attached to so he could be outside unattended but safe and not get caught up on anything? b) get invisible fence c) build him a dog run ~ just some thoughts, I would go to a dog park our something like that fully enclosed so that if he does run he'll be safe work on recall with treats,call him back and hide on him alittle see if he comes looking or could care less that your gone, attach a lunge line(local feed store ~ for horses) and when you are out for a walk at the cabin he can drag that behind him so that if he does decide to take off someone can step on it before he gets to far away from you, I wouldn't risk itnot until he is older and knows to stick around ~ good luck.
Sorry for my ramble maybe there is something in there that will help ~ Kim
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Hi and welcome! I'm Melissa. We have recently moved to the country and are now surrounded by woods. My Giant Schnauzer, Dazy, can be stubborn and hard headed when she wants. Using her selective hearing and all. I recently purchased a remote electronic collar. It has positive and negative tones as well as 8 different electric shock levels. Everything from just a vibration to uncomfortable. I followed the directions inside the box about using it inside the first few days to teach the positive tones as rewards and the negative tones as an attention grabber. This particular model has a 3/4 of a mile range. I have only had to use the "shock" once. There was a rabbit out in the yard when she went out to potty and her listening skills were non existant. The negative tone didn't get it then, so I started with a low jolt and proceeded to get to a level 4. At a level 4, her ears returned and she returned to my side. NOW, as soon as the negative tone sounds... she is back at my side.
Some may not agree with this method, but I'd rather my dog be safe and know I can get her attention than her to get lost in the woods or worse.
Mel
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Oh, wow - I feel so supported! I love you chicks! I just checked in tonite and I am thrilled by all the terrific responses. First of all...everybod y - Thank you, thank you and - um,...THANK YOU!!
To your individual responses: KIM! I already have several 30-foot running lines on my mountain property. Attached to trees, made of non-tangling cable...To me, this just doesn't seem like enough. Herman is constantly lunging and pulling against the line. He's such a big, strong, magnificent fellow. I guess I want him to have more freedom.
As far as building a dog-run...I would love to. We own 10 acres of mountain land around our little cabin. However, the land is exceedingly wild, uneven, very tree-dense, steep, rocky and just HARD...alot of clay and rocks, no soil really. But I will look into it this spring. If it is do-able, I know it will be somewhat costly, but to me it is absolutely worth it. My husband's attitude will probably be: "Why are we doing this - just let the dog run free." Oh, well...this is what I'm dealing with.
JULIE! What a sweetheart! Providing us with all of these great dog-run parks in Queens. Wow. I am so glad I joined this forum~~!! We also have a couple of great ones near our home....Your Beans sounds like Herman..."just being overwhelmed at being introduced to dogs"....good lord, can I relate. Herman is so insanely social...and also mis-understood, because of his size people are afraid. One of his favorite things is watching THE GARBAGE MEN from our bay window on Saturday morning. They are like his SUPER HEROES. If I am up and even partially-dressed, I bring him out front to greet the garbage men and they are crazy about each other. Herman rushes to greet them and they pet him... Herman acts like he is meeting his version of MOVIE STARS...he is like: "DAMN - IT'S THE GARBAGE GUYS. PETTING ME. MEEEEE!!!! I AM IN HEAVEN. THIS IS AMAZING!!!
TO...The other Julie??? Thank you for writing...I feel you're right...Herman is a "hound"...it's hard to say what will "stick" with him... There is such an innate wildness about him, I have my doubts about ever letting him off-lead without losing him.
Melissa, I have always been skittish about any kind of "shock" collar. But if this is ultimately something that would save my boy's life, I would be willing to try it out. Please let me know the model that you have. Thank you.
I have been re-thinking the Halti, and honestly...I know some of you have had success but...knowing Herman ..... I think I may have to take a different tact with him.
Thanks everyone...U guys rock...
~Lena
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I had another thought for you. Check in with any of the hound groups in your area. They should be able to give you some good ideas for training Herman and ideas on off-leash work. Also, I know some of the hunters that run hounds will add bells to the dogs collars so that they are easier to find in the woods. They especially use the bells on the ones that don't bay when they are trailing but then again they usually have a pack with ones that bay in the pack. Hope that helps.
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Kathryn, that is a great idea. I am looking into that now. Thank you. ;)