Author Topic: Uh-oh! Big trouble  (Read 9138 times)

Offline Mom2Sadie

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2006, 11:54:54 am »
Ok, long day and lots of talks later. My dad after talking to the police on the phone decided filing a formal complaint with them was a potentially dangerous thing to do. Apparently the county animal services division conducts an investigation and if they deem it necessary they can take the dog and evaluate it or they can quaratine the animal. My dad thinks that will possibly cause them to retaliate. He kept saying "You have to remember, Sadie bit him too". She didn't really, but she picked him up in her mouth so I guess you could call that biting. So we filed a complaint with the HOA. I don't know if that was the right way to go. My dad told me I need to sleep on it before I file a formal complaint with the police because once I do I "set a ball in motion that I won't be able to stop". I'm just afraid that if I do anything now, it will just look like I'm being vindictive. I guess I see his point. If Sadie hadn't physically touched him I wouldn't hesitate, but the idea of them filing a counter claim and potentially having Sadie quarantined or taken for observation freaks me out. I don't know, the whole thing is crazy. We talked in circles all night. The president of the HOA is encouraging the idea of working it out privately. She's such a PITA but I did feel bad that her whole Sunday afternoon got eaten up with this. I'm more than willing to work it out but that dog needs to be on a leash - end of story. If he had been on a leash, none of this would have happened.

And the property issue is 100 shades of gray because even though it happened right behind my back porch, the fine print on the deed states that anything beyond the front or back door is considered commonly owned property and is to be managed as the HOA sees fit. Which knocks that argument out of there. However, my neighbors girlfriend pointed out that if the HOA is managing the property, then they also need to be strictly enforcing the leash law and if they're not doing that (which clearly they are not) then they may be liable should something like this happen.

I did take pictures of Maggie's neck and Sadie's face. The one of Sadie came out badly though, you can barely see it, but I have them both in case I need them. The thing that bothers me most is that if this woman had handled the situation differently none of this would have happened. I'm not confrontationa l at all, I don't like fighting especially with people I have to live next to. If she had just made an effort to stop the dog from attacking my cat or been apologetic about what happened instead of trying to make it my fault and Sadie's fault, I would have talked to her about using a leash but it would have ended there unless I saw him leashless again. The fact that she went nuts on us when we did nothing wrong and this is the second time we've had an issue with their offleash dog, makes me mad.

So I think the plan at this point is to wait and see what move, if any, the HOA takes. And I'll be taking the camera every walk in case he's off leash again. My neighbors girlfriend said I should send the vet bill to her via certified mail instead of handing it to her. It's really just an exam and they both got sent home on a couple days worth of antibiotics to prevent infection. My neighbors girlfriend said if she's smart she'll just pay it and if not we'll deal with that when it happens. She's helping me write the letter to include with the bill. I don't know if I'm doing the right things here, my gut tells me to make a complaint with the police, but now my dad totally freaked me out about it. Hopefully we can just resolve it. If she agrees to pay the vet bill and keep her dog on leash, I'll be more than happy to drop it. But if I ever catch him off leash again, that's it.

I don't know, it's so late and I'm not going to get any sleep because I keep second guessing everything I did today. I hope it all just goes away. Maybe I'll call the county animal services division tomorrow and try to just talk to someone there and see what all the options are and what they recommend? My head is spinning right now. Thanks for your support everyone, I'll keep you posted.
Dear Lord,
Just for today, let me be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Shawna
Sadie the Newf
Gus and Maggie - Maine Coon Kitties
Lady the Boxer waiting at the bridge

Offline Tspanos

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2006, 12:27:50 pm »
Shawna I don't want to tell you to go against your father but I have to say you are getting free legal advice from a lawyer. She is a professional and if you trust her I suggest you take it. This girl makes her living reading legalise, dealing with different authorities, being confrontationa l, all things that you by your own admission avoid.

I personally don't like HOA's, politics have no place among neighbors but thats what an HOA brings. It may not make sense to sell right now for many reasons, but I think you can see from yesterday's events that the benefits an HOA bring to young single professional woman like yourself, don't out weigh the drawbacks for your "family". Your home should not be a source of stress like this.
I wish I could help more. Tim

Offline ZooCrew

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2006, 12:32:14 pm »
I'm glad you are thinking things through thoroughly.

Even if the bill is just an exam and antibiotics, her dog caused the injuries and caused you to take them to the vet, therefore she is liable for that.

As for the filing of the complaint, I have mixed feelings.  If you can work it out amongst youselves then that is great.  However, the longer you wait to file a claim the harder it will be to do anything about it.  I wouldn't worry too much about them taking Sadie away for observation.  It may come to that, but I doubt it.  For one thing, she was simply defending herself. The other dog was the one that attacked her, not the other way around.  Secondly, she is still a puppy. People look differently on puppy behavior.  But it would be a good idea to talk to someone in the animal control department and see what they think also.  They may be able to give you a better idea of what to expect.

but your dad is right, too.  Once you file a complaint, there is no turning back.  You will have to weigh the options on both sides and think of what you want the outcome to be.  Good luck with the decision and keep us updated.

Offline NoDogNow

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 01:52:09 am »
I'm afraid I have to disagree with your dad, too.  File the formal complaint--FOR ATTACKING YOUR CAT.  Call now, while your cat's injuries are fresh, and the animal control officers can see them for themselves.

And start keeping a daily incident log--get your friendly neighbor to help you--of all the rule breaking that's going on, and not just by this horrible neighbor.  If you end up fighting with the HOA, you'll need documentation of all the various rules that other dog owners are breaking, particuarly those that are dangerous like "off lead dogs" and which acutally interfere with your "quiet enjoyment" of your home.  If you can show in any kind of court or arbitration situation that the 'rules' are disregarded AS A MATTER OF DAY TO DAY LIVING by substantial numbers or repeat specific offenders--you have a claim of unjust harrassment, simply because of Sadie's size, not her behavior--or yours. 

Start keeping the list, start taking pictures, and file the formal complaint.  If Sadie didn't bite her, the cow won't have any vet bills or injured animals.  YOU DO.

Sheryl, Dogless and sad

Offline Mom2Sadie

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 02:57:14 am »
Had a very hard time getting through to anyone at the county animal services office but finally someone called me back. I told them what happened including the fact that Sadie retaliated and they said they would still recommend filing a formal complaint to protect myself and my dog should these people decide to pull something. They said that physically removing the dog for observation only happens in very extreme cases so I probably worried needlessly. At this point, all that would happen is a $25.00 fine for leash law violation assuming they can confirm that the dog was offleash ($50.00 any subsequent violations) and possibly a 10 day quarantine that can be done in the home depending on the results of their investigation. So I went ahead and filed it, my dad's probably going to yell at me. I really did think on it and I just think whatever happens, it's better that I have formally registered a complaint. Also these people need to understand that it's not a little thing. Having a vicious dog off leash is a big deal, even if it does weigh 10 pounds.

So I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I sent the letter out this morning including the vet bill. There will be another vet bill though. My vet called this morning - the emergency vet always faxes things to them. She said she'd be more comfortable if Maggie had a rabies booster. She thinks Sadie is fine since she just had her shot, but Maggie's almost due anyway and she said just to be safe I should bring her in. I'll be happy if they agree to pay the first bill - she'd need a rabies shot soon enough anyway. And I should hear something from the HOA at some point today or tomorrow.

I'm going to start sprucing up the house and making it look wonderful so I can put it on the market I think. The real estate bubble is about to burst up here and I don't want to be stuck here with these idiots when that happens.

Anyone who's been in this situation before know whether or not Sadie will need to be quarantined as well if they find it's necessary to quarantine the little snot? A co-worker of mine seems to think that if they feel there's reason to quarantine him, then any animal he bit or scratched would also need to be quarantined. It's no big deal to quarantine Maggie, but Sadie will hate it.

So I guess we'll just play it by ear. Hopefully it can be resolved relatively quickly and hopefully a little fine will make my neighbors think twice before letting that beast out off his leash. A lot of dogs in our neighborhood aren't as nice as Sadie and would have done a lot more damage to him if he had pulled the same thing. I hope I didn't go overboard filing a complaint, I just feel like it's the best thing I can do to protect myself if the HOA decides to try and make this Sadie's fault. I suppose she could turn around and file a complaint against me with animal services, but I'm willing to take that chance because I know we didn't do anything wrong.

Gosh, I'm long winded lately! Sorry about that, it's been a whirlwind 24 hours!
Dear Lord,
Just for today, let me be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Shawna
Sadie the Newf
Gus and Maggie - Maine Coon Kitties
Lady the Boxer waiting at the bridge

Offline chaos270

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 03:21:13 am »
The only reason to quarantine is if skin is broken I believe.  Sadie really shouldn't be quarantined because she's up to date on everything and was defending herself or her 'property' the cat.  She wasn't vicious to the other dog she just picked it up and away from her cat.

Also my mom suggested you should invite all the newfs over for a meetngreet before you sell ;D. I think you're right to get out of a situation where they're discriminating against you for your dog's size.
Erin and the critters
Kali ~ the newf
Lacey ~ the aussie 
Gabby ~ Holsteiner mare
Fire ~ Appendix Quarter Horse/Belgian gelding
Lilah and Hannah ~ Kali's kitties

Offline Tspanos

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 03:22:04 am »
Shawna it sounds like your on the right road now. I am glad your listening to everyone. One thing I am glad your coworker brought to your attention is the possible need to quarantine Sadie as a result of the little shit being quarantined. It is remote but it is a possibility.

Yeah you are rather long winded the last 24 hrs, but you've also had alot happen. So give Sadie a big hug and we'll be waiting for the next chapter.

Offline Winslow 151

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 03:29:35 am »
Hi Shawna,

Wow this all stinks!! That little lady of yours was correct in her actions and her defense of her family !! Way to go Sadie!! Way to go the rest of the complex to support you and that fiesty girl of yours!!

We have one of these pens (not this one exactly)at the house to block off the driveway and keep Winslow in the yard. They are inexpensive and fairly attractive,(better then chain link or chicken wire) you can get 2 to make a bigger area, I know you are not in the wrong and that Sadie should not have to be peened up but if you put this at the base of the proch if Sadie or maggie get out it would at least be a block between them and Psyco dog and owner.
http://www.stacksandstacks.com
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 03:35:52 am by Winslow 151 »
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Offline Mom2Sadie

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 03:37:07 am »
The only reason to quarantine is if skin is broken I believe.  Sadie really shouldn't be quarantined because she's up to date on everything and was defending herself or her 'property' the cat.  She wasn't vicious to the other dog she just picked it up and away from her cat.

Also my mom suggested you should invite all the newfs over for a meetngreet before you sell ;D. I think you're right to get out of a situation where they're discriminating against you for your dog's size.

Sadie didn't break his skin as far as I know (God knows he's probably made of steel the little sh*t) but he did break hers. It's probably worse case scenario but still, I'd rather not do it to her if I can help it.

There will most definitely be a newfie (and Saint for Zoey) gathering at my teeny little house before I sell. We definitely need to trash the yard before I move, Sadie hasn't done nearly enough damage yet. I had wanted to move anyway, I just planned on waiting another year, but I think its better to do it now. We'll be much happier somewhere on our own, maybe with a fenced yard so I don't need to worry about other people's idiot dogs anymore. We'll see what happens, it's much easier to say you want to sell than to actually have everything work out.
Dear Lord,
Just for today, let me be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Shawna
Sadie the Newf
Gus and Maggie - Maine Coon Kitties
Lady the Boxer waiting at the bridge

Offline Winslow 151

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2006, 03:40:22 am »
Hi
Here is that lnk that should work
http://www.dog-training.com/gcexpens.htm
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 03:46:06 am by Winslow 151 »
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Offline Mom2Sadie

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2006, 03:57:44 am »
Hi
Here is that lnk that should work
http://www.dog-training.com/gcexpens.htm

You know, I actually have one of those from when she was little. I used to use it as a playpen in the kitchen. I didn't even think of it, but it's not a bad idea. That way if Maggie gets out, there will be something in her way and Sadie wouldn't be able to get out either. I'll set it up tonight. Thanks for the idea!

And yeah it turns out not ALL my neighbors are big stupid idiots after all. All of them that I've talked to so far have been 100% on our side, offering to help in any way they can. So maybe that's one good thing that came out of it, at least I'm much more friendly with other neighbors now that they've offered to back my girl up. Makes me much more willing to ignore the fact that they fail to clean up their doggie's poo :)
Dear Lord,
Just for today, let me be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Shawna
Sadie the Newf
Gus and Maggie - Maine Coon Kitties
Lady the Boxer waiting at the bridge

Offline Imani's Mom

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2006, 05:28:58 am »
Not sure about the laws where you are, but the law here in upstate NY says that if a dog has proof of a current rabies vaccine, and has possible exposure to rabies (insane little psycho dog is close enough), a rabies booster within 5 days of injury is all that is required.   The quarantine issue only comes up if the dog is not current on rabies vaccine,  but that would cover the psycho-dog if s/he has not had shots kept to date.   Anyway, maybe you need to teach your baby to poop on command, and next time that little booger is offleash, she could back up and dump on him/her just for good measure.

Weedsport, NY

Offline ZooCrew

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2006, 06:23:04 am »
Glad to hear you filed the complaint.  Even if it had consequences, I think it was the right thing to do.  that way, in the future, even if after you move, the dog attacks another dog/person/cat/whatever, they will have this on record.

As for the quarantine, as the animal control person told you, most places will let you do an inhome quarantine, if it comes to that.  In which case there is nothing to worry about.

I hope you are able to get out of there and into a new place in a reasonable amount of time.  Good luck and keep us updated.

Offline Mom2Sadie

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2006, 10:00:14 pm »
Well, since it was sort of a she said/she said sort of deal, there wasn't a heck of a lot they could do. They just slapped them with a $25 fine (thanks to my neighbors backing me up on the leash issue) and that was pretty much the end of that. I can't prove that it was their dog that did that to my cat, blah, blah, blah. They did have to show that the dog was up to date on vaccinations which was a relief to me. Demon woman's husband did come over after the fact to talk to me about it, and he was actually very nice which surprised me. He agreed to pay the vet bill in full and said he hopes we can just drop the issue now and be civil. He apologized for his wife and said if anything happens in the future to come talk to him. I got the impression that he knows something's not right with that dog. I told him I can agree to be civil and talk with him and explained that the reason this happened at all was because of his wife's reaction to the incident. And I made a point to let him know that if I see that dog without a leash again, I'll be calling county animal services again and taking pictures. He said the dog chokes himself on a leash which is why they don't use one. So I showed him Sadie's harness from when she was a baby and I was afraid she'd wriggle out of the collar. Hopefully, they'll use one or something anyway, because if I see him off leash again I can't be held accountable for my actions! The issue with the HOA is still a little up in the air, we both have to fill out a sort of incident report and the board will review it. I feel better after talking with him instead of his demon wife, and I know all the neighbors are on our side. Even the stupid lady who ties her poor Husky up all the time backed us up. So I think we should be ok. I hope so anyway. That was a big giant PITA. Thanks for 'listening' to me rant.
Dear Lord,
Just for today, let me be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Shawna
Sadie the Newf
Gus and Maggie - Maine Coon Kitties
Lady the Boxer waiting at the bridge

Offline Jessdryden

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Re: Uh-oh! Big trouble
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2006, 10:03:33 pm »
Yikes, what a mess.  It sounds like the neighbor's husband is reasonable, though.  Bella, Sasha, and I just wanted to send some good thoughts your way!  We're hoping for the best.  So sorry you had to deal with all this! :P