Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Legislation Forum => Bills & Other Legislative Acts => : mgcsold March 22, 2005, 11:13:43 AM
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My family and I are currently looking for an Apartment and I am getting extremely dissappointed with the bad rap that many of the bigger breed dogs are getting...
I am seeing a lot of "no German Shepherds, Pit Bulls, Dobermans, Great Danes, Cane Corsos, etc...."
What are your thoughts????
It makes me upset...althou gh I don't own any of these breeds right know...I have int the past and I may in the future...I do not believe that all of these dogs have been classified as High risk...insuran ce wise.
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Hello,
My first thought is this, if they will take a dog of that size and who isn't pure bred, then don't tell them that, just say it'a a mix, unless there a doggie expert how are they going to know the difference, right? My second thought is this, on the other hand I can see them not taking the large breeds because they will make more noise on the floor and could possibly cause more damage to the inside. I know it isn't right, but it's just the way it goes. Here in Colorado they even charge you pet rent and a huge non-refundable deposit. I wish they had to do that for children as well, because as well all know the little ones can cause some damage to a apartment/house as well.
awo
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Hello,
My first thought is this, if they will take a dog of that size and who isn't pure bred, then don't tell them that, just say it'a a mix, unless there a doggie expert how are they going to know the difference, right? My second thought is this, on the other hand I can see them not taking the large breeds because they will make more noise on the floor and could possibly cause more damage to the inside. I know it isn't right, but it's just the way it goes. Here in Colorado they even charge you pet rent and a huge non-refundable deposit. I wish they had to do that for children as well, because as well all know the little ones can cause some damage to a apartment/house as well.
awo
We have those rent fees and deposits as well....
My main problem is the fact that they have breed restrictions.. ..not just size restrictions.. ...the reasoning behind it is that they have classified "german shepherds, pit bulls, rotties, great danes, cane corsos, dobermans, and mastiffs" as viscious unreliable dogs that can't be insured....by homeownere or renters insurance....I believe that any dog even the small breeds or mixed breeds can be viscious if not raised properly or breed right....I have know a few of these small dogs that have sent some to the hospital with muliiple bite wounds....they can just sneak right up on you...so what gives the public the right to say "all of the aboved name breeds are known to be viscous" but never any other?
Christi.
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Hello,
Okay, so if these are the restirctions that they are placing on people, why don't you challange there rules. If every apartment that you are looking at has these same rules, then go to the source and veto it. You can't be the only person who has issues with this, start a cause. I would also suggest that you talk to your local animal control and ask them if there is any breed restrictions that they are aware in the state that you live in. You might also get them to give some info on fighting this issue and also talking to the people who do the insurance also.
awo
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Hello,
Okay, so if these are the restirctions that they are placing on people, why don't you challange there rules. If every apartment that you are looking at has these same rules, then go to the source and veto it. You can't be the only person who has issues with this, start a cause. I would also suggest that you talk to your local animal control and ask them if there is any breed restrictions that they are aware in the state that you live in. You might also get them to give some info on fighting this issue and also talking to the people who do the insurance also.
awo
yes your right....I have already signed a petition on line for the pit bulls and pit mixes in New Jersey....they are trying to pass a law that all of these dogs are to wear a big orange tag labled vicious as well as a muzzle any time they are out of the house...the owners have to pay a vicious dog fee every year....even if the dog never did anything wrog...just because of it's breed....if this passes then they were planning on trying for other breeds....but so far nothing on the state level other than that....hopefu lly nothing will pass....
As far as the apartment restrictions.. ..it has to do with the insurance carriers who base their facts on % of attacks in the USA.
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I just thought you should know that there was an earlier post on here about the same issue on certain dogs, that came from peta. I don't know how much you know about peta, but I'm not a big fan. This group will try to pass this new law, but I don't think they will. As an animal welfare officer, I don't think that peta has much bearing on creating new laws and them being enforced. I hope this helps, but really contact your local animal control agency, we really aren't as bad as people make us out to be.
awo
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I just thought you should know that there was an earlier post on here about the same issue on certain dogs, that came from peta. I don't know how much you know about peta, but I'm not a big fan. This group will try to pass this new law, but I don't think they will. As an animal welfare officer, I don't think that peta has much bearing on creating news laws and them being enforced. I hope this helps, but really contact your local animal control agency, we really aren't as bad as people make us out to be.
awo
Thank you for your advice....I don't think you guys are bad at all....as far as PETA...I know enough to know that I am not a fan.... :(
Anyway...I have got to go finish my laundry....
have a wonderful night/day which ever the case may be...
I enjoyed chatting with you. :D
Christi
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Here's my 2 cents: I am vehemently opposed to breed restrictions, but I can see where they are coming from. Down here in Louisiana we have a HUGE problem with dog fighting so breeds like the pit bull, rottweiler, etc. get a bad rap. What I suggest is that, instead of banning a whole breed (imagine if we did this with people! no one would stand for it), let the owner prove the dog is not a threat. Require renters, etc. with "questionable" breeds to produce obedience class certification or have passed the "Canine Good Citizen Test". Progressive insurance companies should recognize that these measures could help them gain and retain clients and cover their butts at the same time. It would also help pet owners become more responsible and ensure fewer pets end up in high kill animal shelters.
There! see how easy that is to solve a problem like this if everyone would just listen to me??? Now, someone with more influence than I have needs to take this and run with it.
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My family and I are currently looking for an Apartment and I am getting extremely dissappointed with the bad rap that many of the bigger breed dogs are getting...
I am seeing a lot of "no German Shepherds, Pit Bulls, Dobermans, Great Danes, Cane Corsos, etc...."
What are your thoughts????
It makes me upset...althou gh I don't own any of these breeds right know...I have int the past and I may in the future...I do not believe that all of these dogs have been classified as High risk...insuran ce wise.
we had a flood at our house, the inc. ajuster saw my last bullie, capone a finished champ next thing i know they droped us. he never growled at anyone. just a big beautiful guy.
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I will stick my neck out here
Being a BREEDER LOVER AND EXHIBITOR of a large breed it concerns me as well
It is because of some irresponsible peoble we are confronted with this
But I DO AGREE with certain control for breeders and owners
As per expample leave the breeding to devoted peope with knowledge and
make sure they are controlled
People with pet dogs no matter what breed should be made to castrate or sterilize
And all this mixing dog breeds is wrong.
NO BACK YARD BREEDERS NO SALE OF PETS AT SOPS OR WHOLESALERS
people with working dogs that kept as pets should be educated that those dogs are working dogs and should be kept busy
Remember having a pet is a privalidge
(Sorry about miy misspelled words but Ii need a spell check when I post but cant find it on this programme
Ann Oppelaar
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Jjfritsche,
I love that idea!It is a lot of work for the dog owner, but it does help solve a lot of speculation as to how your dogs behaves/obeys in other people's opinions. Personally, you should have free reign to have the dog you want wherever you want IF you are a responsible owner. IMO, some people should have to take a test before they can get a dog!
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Ann said
People with pet dogs no matter what breed should be made to castrate or sterilize
And all this mixing dog breeds is wrong.
NO BACK YARD BREEDERS NO SALE OF PETS AT SOPS OR WHOLESALERS
people with working dogs that kept as pets should be educated that those dogs are working dogs and should be kept busy
Remember having a pet is a privalidge
Ann,
I agree that most dogs and cats should be spayed or neutered. I am a vet tech, no one believes more fervently than I do that these new designer breeds are a bad idea.
My concern with your ideas is...how and who gets to decide if I breed or YOU breed??? Just because you have finished champions? That doesn't cut it with MY breed, most folks with working border collies think that the conformance world is going to be the demise of the border collie as we know it. They would say that conformation breeding is what should be made to stop. I just don't believe that there is any chance of developing a mechanism that can limit intact breeding animals in any practical manner that could be legally maintained. (last time I checked, the US was still a free county)
Who gets to decide? I think working ability is more important. My nieghbor might think that fitting the breed standard is more important.
Our town, sadly, has breed restrictions on anything that remotely even LOOKS like a pit bull. This of course includes all crosses, Am Staffs, it is pitiful, and we fought it hard. It passed anyway, brought my bosses then 8 year old son to tears of frustration. He just couldn't understand how so many people could be so WRONG. Statute requires "pit bulls" to be muzzeled in town, no new pit bulls, all must be desexed, they have to be housed on concrete, heavy duty kennel with a top, registered with the city, and a $50,000 liability insurance policy.
We have seen a lot of very nice family pets lose their homes, even their lives to this ordinance. While people still paint them all with one brush we will continue to see unfair attitudes and legislation. Very sad, and in my opinion, very wrong.
and yet...I still think that someone who owns property should be able to decide if they don't wish to rent to people with pets at all, or to people with specific kinds of pets...once again, it comes down to personal rights. They have a right to decide what kind of risks they are willing to take with their own property.
jusiw
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I have a great idea for all who people who love and live with big dogs and HATE their cities regulations. Move to Wonderful Colorado, we only have two cities that have pitt bull restrictions and we are in the top ten of pet loving cities with amazing off leash dog parks!
awo
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Here's my 2 cents: I am vehemently opposed to breed restrictions, but I can see where they are coming from. Down here in Louisiana we have a HUGE problem with dog fighting so breeds like the pit bull, rottweiler, etc. get a bad rap. What I suggest is that, instead of banning a whole breed (imagine if we did this with people! no one would stand for it), let the owner prove the dog is not a threat. Require renters, etc. with "questionable" breeds to produce obedience class certification or have passed the "Canine Good Citizen Test". Progressive insurance companies should recognize that these measures could help them gain and retain clients and cover their butts at the same time. It would also help pet owners become more responsible and ensure fewer pets end up in high kill animal shelters.
There! see how easy that is to solve a problem like this if everyone would just listen to me??? Now, someone with more influence than I have needs to take this and run with it.
I agree your statement (just because you breed champions and who is to decide)
But I can only speak for myself I healt screen for H.D O.C.D and above all temperament before I do a mating and use 3 generations either side as my guidelines.
As we are compeeled to do here in W.A
But I have spend many years working with animals working at zoos and my Job was at the Vet assisitant before I owned any animals
Basicly as you don't have big dogs at a flat in Amsterdam
I feel that if you want to become a breeder you should be educated and ristricted as to how and what you breed in the sense of health
Here we are not even allowed as registered breeders to sell whole sale and petshop and Never before a pup is 8 weeks is it to leave the Breeder
We are obliged to socialise our pups before they leave and we get punished if we do not stand by our breed or given the proper help and education regarding the upbringing of a baby to it's new owner
I know it is not all in the bag but her in W.A we have made a start
And I am happy to say I was responsible for some of the laws that are now in place regarding the sale of a pup and the pups age for leaving the nest and for exporting the age of a pup it used to be to young
We are both kept in check by our Canine Association and the Department of
trade I have (as you may have as well seen a lot of uneducated people with dogs that they loose control of Big and small and different breeds
If a person is educated what dog suited them best then it does not matter what breed it is
But the responsibilty starts with the breeders.
Ann
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Here's my 2 cents: I am vehemently opposed to breed restrictions, but I can see where they are coming from. Down here in Louisiana we have a HUGE problem with dog fighting so breeds like the pit bull, rottweiler, etc. get a bad rap. What I suggest is that, instead of banning a whole breed (imagine if we did this with people! no one would stand for it), let the owner prove the dog is not a threat. Require renters, etc. with "questionable" breeds to produce obedience class certification or have passed the "Canine Good Citizen Test". Progressive insurance companies should recognize that these measures could help them gain and retain clients and cover their butts at the same time. It would also help pet owners become more responsible and ensure fewer pets end up in high kill animal shelters.
There! see how easy that is to solve a problem like this if everyone would just listen to me??? Now, someone with more influence than I have needs to take this and run with it.
I agree your statement (just because you breed champions and who is to decide)
But I can only speak for myself I healt screen for H.D O.C.D and above all temperament before I do a mating and use 3 generations either side as my guidelines.
As we are compeeled to do here in W.A
But I have spend many years working with animals working at zoos and my Job was at the Vet assisitant before I owned any animals
Basicly as you don't have big dogs at a flat in Amsterdam
I feel that if you want to become a breeder you should be educated and ristricted as to how and what you breed in the sense of health
Here we are not even allowed as registered breeders to sell whole sale and petshop and Never before a pup is 8 weeks is it to leave the Breeder
We are obliged to socialise our pups before they leave and we get punished if we do not stand by our breed or given the proper help and education regarding the upbringing of a baby to it's new owner
I know it is not all in the bag but her in W.A we have made a start
And I am happy to say I was responsible for some of the laws that are now in place regarding the sale of a pup and the pups age for leaving the nest and for exporting the age of a pup it used to be to young
We are both kept in check by our Canine Association and the Department of
trade I have (as you may have as well seen a lot of uneducated people with dogs that they loose control of Big and small and different breeds
If a person is educated what dog suited them best then it does not matter what breed it is
But the responsibilty starts with the breeders.
Ann
O yes also tyroid testing
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I can see that this is a list with people from other countries. It is great to hear how others manage the problems, but I don't believe that Americans are going to sit still while their rights become amended. NOT practical in the US.
Kudos to you Ann for being so responsible. In a perfect world, to those of us that love dogs, no litters would be bred without health clearances like OFA, CERF and BAER testing. In a perfect world, only proven adults with lovely temperaments would be bred. This simply isn't a perfect world. We have a client who is an AmStaff breeder, and he NEVER does a breeding with a bitch or a dog that has ever growled or snapped at an human being, and he tests them thoroughly. We have euthanized several of his prized stock after a single incident of snapping at a person. We can do ANYTHING with his dogs, all of them.
He is a very responsible breeder. I don't think he makes much money doing it! I always try to tell our clients that if you breed right, you aren't going to make money. At least not much.
I don't breed dogs, all of the dogs in my pack currently are desexed. The key to ending all this breed specific legislation is responsible ownership. Period. It isn't the dogs fault, it is the owners fault. The dogs are just being dogs. Who can fault them for that?
CGC's and breed championships are not the answer, although they may be a part of the equation. You already know my objection to the breed ring as a way to "earn" the right to breed. CGC is definitly not infallable. I know several dogs with CGCs that clearly are NOT good citizens and their owners can't trust them around other dogs or the wrong environment or just out on the worng day. Even dogs have good days and bad days. If the dog earns a CGC on a good day, but has more bad unpredictable days, does that mean that it is a truly nice, good dog and can be trusted to be an ambassador of it's breed?
Sigh. Wish it was an easier fix.
jusiw
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Nobody should ever be put in the place of deciding what is right or wrong for another individual. Everyone has their own ideas on good or bad pets and breeds. I don't think this is really an issue on breed restrictions but rather an issue who is better, safer, and more loved at this moment. Everything in our world comes down to a political warfare where those with the most $$ can make the most impact on decisions. I agree that pets are a privilage and not a right, but to limit my choice, breed, gender, and in-tactness should never a decision the law makes for me. If I can prove my responsibility as an owner and parent, I should have the right to do what I want with MY dog when I want to do it. He make work, he may show, he may play and sure he might become a dad someday....all of which is up to me!
The quality of life every living thing has should be up to those who take an active role in raising it and not the lawmakers sitting in their fancy offices making decisions that impact my life or those of loved ones. As in many cases, too much government is not good for the people.
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AMEN Jabear!
That is what I was trying to say, but doing a terrible job of it.
BTW...your puppy pic is the cutest ever!
jusiw
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i own a pit mix in nj he's also a american bulldog thats what i tell people he is american bulldog. they look the same except size amer. bulldog is bigger then the pit according to research the pit came from the amer. bulldog mixed with terrier. dunno what terrier though. trouble with posting sorry
rebecca
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Well, I guess that our little AWS (American Water Spaniel) would have to have extra insurance.. since she was rescued from the dog pits in Mississippi where she was used as a bait dog. 2 1/2 years later and we are about ready to complete her Canine Good Citizenship test.
Regarding the comment about working dogs.. if you are referring to service animals, most programs require service dogs to be spayed or neutered. They also require them to pass their Canine Good Citizenship test and some have an additiona,l even more stringent PAT(Public Access Test) different groups have different names for this test, that tests the dogs in an active working environment and must pass.
Regarding the comment about size, I've seen just as many viscious small dogs and our neighbors beagle attacked my mother and her friend in our back yard and caused major damage requiring surgery, so Visciousness I don't think is a breed issue. Unfortunately the dogs that seem to get the worse notoriety are the bigger dogs, because who is afraid of little Fifi? Little dogs are just less scary looking, and visciousness is not just a dog issue, it is a perception issue. If the person perceives the dog to be viscious, there is little you can do to convince the person otherwise, no matter how gentle the dog is. The person perceives the dog to be viscious because it is breed X and therefore they react with fear, no matter whether it is justified or not. (My In-laws raise Rottweilers and they are some of the biggest lap dogs you have ever met).
I sure would like to see what they are going to do when someone with a service animal of one of the banned breeds applies for an apartment as breed bans do not apply to service animals. What is one of the most common breeds for a seeing eye dog? German shepherd. I know alot more "Pit Bulls" and I use the term loosely as I am aware there are several breeds included, are being trained as service dogs for those with mobility issues and those who need a dog to pull their wheel chairs. The same thing with Rottweilers.
So those are our two cents worth to this issue.
Shi Ni Ke and Olivia, the IWS who might reach the minimum height requirement to be part of this Big Dog site when she finishes growing.
Here's my 2 cents: I am vehemently opposed to breed restrictions, but I can see where they are coming from. Down here in Louisiana we have a HUGE problem with dog fighting so breeds like the pit bull, rottweiler, etc. get a bad rap. What I suggest is that, instead of banning a whole breed (imagine if we did this with people! no one would stand for it), let the owner prove the dog is not a threat. Require renters, etc. with "questionable" breeds to produce obedience class certification or have passed the "Canine Good Citizen Test". Progressive insurance companies should recognize that these measures could help them gain and retain clients and cover their butts at the same time. It would also help pet owners become more responsible and ensure fewer pets end up in high kill animal shelters.
There! see how easy that is to solve a problem like this if everyone would just listen to me??? Now, someone with more influence than I have needs to take this and run with it.
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As the owner ofa rottie that thinks that she is a lap dog I say AMEN to all of you. It is sooooo frustrating when people think that your dog is vicious just because of its breed. My Peyton hides behind the chair when our spinger/lab mix barks, she rolls over onto her back and occasionally pees on herself when she is around little dogs, and she sits patiently when she is around little kids.
I totally believe in the good citizen testing. I am researching it in my area to try to get lisenced to teach the class myself.
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shi-ni-ke,
could you please tell me more about this stuff cause my hubby is disabled and i would like to try getting my chance (pit mix) trained for this stuff if its in my area
and in my price range. wich i doubt it will be. chance is so very loving.
rebecca