Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Gear Forum => Collars, crates, & other cool things => : 2dobies November 08, 2005, 04:39:12 PM
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Do any of you guys use a 'Gentle Leader' halter device on your large dogs? I have used one to get my "puller" Dar to slow her down, and it worked like a charm. I don't hardly ever have to use it with her anymore, but I was just wondering what everyone's feelings are on this subject.
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I do not like them... I bought a halti for Sophie and she hated it. I did some more research on them and found way to many horror stories about snapping a dogs neck... Then we took her to obediance class and the trainer said not to use them so it is sitting in our leash box...
The way I stop Sophie from pulling is when she starts to pull I immediately change where I'm walking to the opposite direction that she is pulling so she gets a small tug on the leash and then has to change directions with me. We do this a until she is paying attention to me and follow my every change (which used to be quite a few times... I think the neighbors thing I'm crazy :) ). I now only have to make one or two direction changes and she is planted at my side.
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Seems to be one of those things you either love, or hate, huh? Like I said, I don't use it anymore, because I also have heard those neck-snapping stories, and even though I never really had any trouble using it (well, she hated it at first, but adjusted to it pretty easily) I went to a regular slip collar and also took some obedience classes.
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The same people who make the gentle leader came out an easy walk harness. The hook is in the front of the chest. It's made so when the dog starts pulling away you stop and that will make the dog turn around using it's own force. Check it out at http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?id=74. My trainer recommends it.
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My trainer wanted me to try a Halti on Apache. He looked so sad, my breeder said absolutely NO. At almost 3 years he doesn't even need a choker chain for walks, just his buckle collar.
I really like the plastic prong for Kiya although sometimes my little hunter needs something stronger.
Carolyn
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i took ozzy to the pet store to get one of the gentle leaders and he jsut about destroyed the store trying to get it off his face. we went with an harness type one. it seems to stop him from pulling too much. patti
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I tried a GL on Earnest and he layed on the ground and hollered like I was killing him. I used a plastic prong on him until he learned "walk nice". I still use it once in a while, as insurance if we're going somewhere that might be really exciting. My son took a class with Phyfe where there were a lot of little fluffy dogs, I wasn't sure how he'd react and we weren't allowed to use his prong, so I let them try a GL. He worked with it on, but his whole attitude was "I'm a good boy, why are you making me wear this nasty thing?" He was so unhappy, I won't make him wear it ever again. Some people have great success with them, but I'm concerned about the psychological effects, I've seen too many dogs terribly depressed and upset by them. At the kennel where I work I've only seen one or two dogs that really benefitted from them.
Here's two good articles about GLs and Prongs:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html
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I bought a gentle leader recently because I started having problems with Zoot. I simply couldn't get past the part where he freaks out with it on. It made me sad. I really wanted it to work. I thought it made sense, and some holistic people were recommending it. But every time I have put it on Zoot I just end up taking it off so that he will stop freaking out.
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I am going to do my best to work with him in just the buckle collar and really work on our relationship instead of trying to use a training tool. I am just such a believer in humane treatment and holistic styles, I hate that a product advertising to be that way seems to have more evidence of being harmful rather than good. But I know some people have used it and found it to be a great help.
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The first time I used a GL on Dar, she was about 8 mo. old, and she acted as if I had ruined her life. I took it off, and tried everything I could think of to keep her from pulling me down the street. I had a recent knee injury, and it was killing me to try to hold her back, so what I did was put the GL on her while she still had her buckle collar on, gave her small treats for taking a few stepw wearing it, and within 5 minutes, she had forgotten that it was on her. Made walking her a LOT easier on me, and I usually used it when we would go to flea mkts or other crowded places that I wanted to have good control of her. After using a GL for about three mo. and going to obedience classes, she didn't need it anymore. I still carry it in my car, "just in case", but I've not had to use it for a long long time.
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The first time I used a GL on Dar, she was about 8 mo. old, and she acted as if I had ruined her life. I took it off, and tried everything I could think of to keep her from pulling me down the street. I had a recent knee injury, and it was killing me to try to hold her back, so what I did was put the GL on her while she still had her buckle collar on, gave her small treats for taking a few stepw wearing it, and within 5 minutes, she had forgotten that it was on her. Made walking her a LOT easier on me, and I usually used it when we would go to flea mkts or other crowded places that I wanted to have good control of her. After using a GL for about three mo. and going to obedience classes, she didn't need it anymore. I still carry it in my car, "just in case", but I've not had to use it for a long long time.
Thats great! I'm glad that it worked for you and her. I hope your knee is feeling better.
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I love the gentle leader. I agree Rocco gets sad when he has to wear it but his sadness is nothing compared to the fact that I have complete control and can prevent any danger to my dogs. In order for your dog to get hurt with gentle leader on, you have to use them improperly. A dog can cause themselves harm with just them and a collar, bone, or even a sock.
The gentle leader is very effective when training your dog. Yes, the dog will fight it and try to get it off but I bet no little boy enjoyed wearing a tie the first time. As long as you do it right, the gentle leader can be a valuable asset to a pet owner. Some dogs don't need them but mine definately do, so I love the gentle leader. :)
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Thanks for all the pros and cons. I was on a different dog forum a few months ago and mentioned that I had used a GL on my dog, and I got totally beaten up over it!! Those people were 'way too serious about stuff! ;D
The more I use this website, whether it is to add my 2-cents worth in, or ask a question (no matter how serious or stupid it may be), or just jump around and read what other dog lovers are saying and doing (not to mention the GREAT pics you all keep posting) the more I love this place! :D ;D 8)
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i have a GL, never used it hugo, although i would if i had to. he doesnt really pull so i have no need to use it. when he was going thru adolescence, he would get over excited and pull when we were going on our walks and such. i just had to get a little tougher and yank back on his choke a couple of good times and put him in sit and remind him who is running the show. he pretty much has been fine since. one good thing is that i took puppy classes with him and that was one of the first things we learned-controlled walking. i am thankful for that. i am only 5'2" and he is a big dog for me to have to control physically, glad he minds verbally. but i wouldnt hesitate to use the GL or prong collar if necessary (yes, i do have a prong collar also). i would rather see someone using a GL than watch the poor person get dragged all over the place because the dog was uncontrollable . there is alot of people who think a GL is cruel. its even more cruel to let a dog be out of control (and dangerous too). ;)
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My biggest problem with the whole debate is the way that an awful lot of trainers and vets reccommend the GL and slam the prong collar. There are pros and cons to BOTH and it really comes down to what works for your dog. It's the ATTITUDE that gets me going.
I've seen a lot of dogs who went to training and are months down the road, still fighting the GL and still pulling. Some of these would be good candidates for the prong, but their owners have been told by someone that the prong is cruel, so they struggle on, both them and the dog frustrated and upset, conned into using a tool that doesn't work for them. I know of 2 dogs that got rehomed in exactly this scenario, the new owner switched to a different tool, and the dogs learned fast. The previous owner was heartbroken to give them up, but a physical problem made it impossible for her to continue attempting to walk them. How sad that an inflexible trainer allowed her to think that the dogs were "stubborn" and "bad" when all they needed was a different set of signals.
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I recently went with a gentle leader with Angus to try and curb his habit of jumping on strangers. The biggest difference I found was the strength that was needed to hold him back. With the GL I just had to have a good grip on the leash..... don't even have to plant my feet LOL. I think it will work for Angus but I am working hard to be the focus of his attention. When that happens I will stop using it. I had to buy a large GL and the nose strap is thin and it has rubbed off some fur on his nose so I had to stop using it for a short time. Also, in the instructions for the GL it mentions that it should be attached high on the neck, just behind the ears and then the nose strap can be looser. It takes me 10 minutes to get it high on Angus's neck, and a tight fit, because of all the Newfie fur up there!!!
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what is the difference in this and a harness? I'm confused. we have a harness for Sunny, but he still pulls me across if I got the wrong footing he'd just drag me a long behind him i think. :)
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Thank you so much for the link.
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The company "Gentle Leader" also makes a harness that has the hook in the front so that it also helps from pulling, I think someone already mentioned this, but I use one for my Beagle Maggie and it seems to work well.
FOr the most part it works because when Maggie Pulls it almost spins her out, but it doesn't pull on her head or her neck. Beagles are notorious pullers and with a normal collar it can affect her neck and scare her throat, or so I am told. With this harnes about 80% of the time it stops her from pulling and it has started to make a huge difference with the way that she walks. She is doing a much better job of walking next to us.
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we currently have a harness but it doesn't do much good he pulls like crazy. I guess its with his chest I duno his nose is to the ground. LOL I like to let him smell and look around but he goes crazy with it and nearly pulls me off balance while he is trying to sniff around. He and Ace both wear a harness and Ace seems to be doing well with one, but if one has to sit and stay for a minute because he is pulling the other will not keep walking he will sit and wait and if you try to get him to go he looks at you like but we can't leave him behind! Its very cute, but can be frustrating when the one sitting won't sit and stay because he is trying to get to the other one. we realize they are still young so we're working with them every day we go for our walks. we give them lots of praise during the walks so hopefully we're on the right track. :) thank you again
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I have never used either of those devices, I am a pinch collar trainer myself, so no help there. But I have always had multiple critters to train, and can help with that. To foster independence, train them separately. Either at different times or two different people go in different directions. Once they start listening and focusing on their handler, you can begin to train them together again.
Stella
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Thanks I'll give this a try! I think we'll go into different rooms and shut the door and just devote time with each one then switch off who goes with who the next night. gets frustrating when they're just trying to see who can swipe the treat the fastest lol
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I have to take my 2 dobies walking separately, unless I can get a volunteer to take one or the other! They get along fine, but that's the problem. When I've tried to take them walking together, all they want to do is jump and wrestle with each other! That doesnt work. That, and the fact that if a cat or a squirrel happened to cross our path, they would take off like a team of Clydesdales and I would not be able to hold them back! So, I really get my exercise, because I take Dar, then come home and take Sasha.
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That's what Sunny and Ace like to do! They like play at first but then they do ok as long as you have one a little bit in front of the other.
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I can walk both my 120lb dogs with gentle leaders on. They stay nicely by my side. I trained them on the gentle leaders seperately then together which is probably what did it. I try to keep a pace walking that doesn't allow them to do anything but walk nicely beside me and I am very quick to correct and even quicker to praise good behavior.
I would walk seperately until they are reliable and then it will be like starting over but then walk them together and they will get it. Gentle leaders are great.
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I have used a gentle leader for Cinder but it looks like that she has finally started to catch on to the no pull command. Kaila, on the other hand, I have been able to use the "no pull" command and she will back off on pulling. Unless she is on a short lead and as long as she is the one in front on walks. Totally different story if Cinder is walking ahead of us. But I love the gentle leader.
Kat
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since most of you say gentle leaders are bad , what would be good for angel?? cause she pulls bad
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since most of you say gentle leaders are bad , what would be good for angel?? cause she pulls bad
It's not that gentle leaders are bad, they are just like any other training tool. They work in some situations, with some dogs and not others. I have always had good results with prong/pinch collars, but that is just what works for me, with my mooses.
You have to try different things and discover what works best for you and angel.
Stella
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i know i got a big surprise checking her for a new harness shes not had one in forever , and i expected it to be maybe 28-29 inches , she is 31 :o i had to measure while she was eating :D ;D will need an XL harness.. my big girl :P
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I had to buy a large GL and the nose strap is thin and it has rubbed off some fur on his nose so I had to stop using it for a short time.
I had this problem with the GL on my weim, Jewel. You can take some moleskin w/ adhesive backing (like you would use in shoes to stop rubbing and such) and wrap it around the nose strap area (with the sticky towards the strap, of course). It keeps the nylon from rubbing their nose so roughly, which (in your dog would make his fur come off) with her short fur caused a sore spot on her nose. Just be careful if he gets the moleskin wet, as it can harbor stuff underneath of it and cause a nasty raw spot - if it gets wet make sure you take it off and dry it right away. Just my two cents worth.
Mary
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My dog has a "Halti", which is something like the Gentle Leader, and I love it!! Before, he pulled me all over the place when I used a harness around his waist. He isn't always happy about it, but he knows when it goes on he's either going on a walk, or going bye-bye!! I have never used a prong collar yet, but I am seriously thinking about putting one on at the pet store, just to see if his reaction would be different to it. But the good thing is, with the Halti, and with a little training, NO PULLING!! ;D ;D
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My dog has a "Halti", which is something like the Gentle Leader, and I love it!! Before, he pulled me all over the place when I used a harness around his waist. He isn't always happy about it, but he knows when it goes on he's either going on a walk, or going bye-bye!! I have never used a prong collar yet, but I am seriously thinking about putting one on at the pet store, just to see if his reaction would be different to it. But the good thing is, with the Halti, and with a little training, NO PULLING!! ;D ;D
As stated earlier, I do use a prong on all of my dogs. Raven has a very high prey drive, and without a prong she would send me flying everytime she saw a bird. My other two are 100+ Lbs, and are intolerant of any interference with their faces and heads, as well as phenomonally strong. I was trained in the use of the prong 17 years ago by a professional trainer and am very comfortable with it which is probably why I never tried anything else. Having said all that I am not sure that Hershey, who seems to be behaving well under the gentler Halti would benefit from the harsher correction of a prong. It may only confuse him, if he is already exhibiting the behavior that you are seeking.
Please don't take offense, this is only my opinion, and I am not trying to tell you what to do.
Stella
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i love gentle leaders!! I have always used them..of course not in a retracter leash which is how i heard dogs neck were being broke- although i strongly think this is a urban myth..
the only complant have is people always think its a muzzle and that my dog is mean. but i seem to get the same reaction without the haltie- and i end up with a sore back from pulling on daisy and her pulling on me!!! I have tried to use a choke- and even a prong as i was tought when i learned to work with dogs..but a danes neck is sooo damn long that its hard to keep it in the right spot to work-and daisy is VERY smart at popping her head back and out of any collar that is not snug ( she only did this to me the first week i had her-I had to chase her for about a mile down the beach!- and the rescue people had said they had to chase her alot when she made these escapes..naugh ty girl!) The halti/GL just helps me get her focus back to me, but shes really bonded to me and listens really good..even off leash -but i just feel a little more in control with the halti.
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Personally, in MY experience, I don't like the GL or the Halti. If people can use it and it works for them, I'm happy, but I can't. They don't work on high strung sensitive dogs, because to grab a dog by the muzzle is to correct it and that is totally demoralizing to a sensitive dog. Araby is like the worst puller EVER in the history of the world. I tried everything and nothing worked. I tried the GL and the Halti on her, left it on for like 10 minutes like the book said. First she flipped out, started to claw her face. When she began to draw blood I took it off. Tried again a few days later. She spun around, did backflips, everything in her power to get this thing off her face, then she compacted herself (For lack of a better word). She hunched up, tucked her tail between her legs and just stood there. It was so sad! And to top it off, it didn't stop the pulling.
The Halter collars work on the premise that if a dog's head is turned to the side, it can't go in a straight line. We used this often on horses that were refusing, or just being a PIA. You spin them around in circles and by the time you get them going straight again they forget why they were being obnoxious in the first place. The problem is, horses are a prey animal, dogs are predatory. Totally different psyches. It might work for some dogs, but I don't think that it deserves the magical pulling cure title it's been given.
Another thing I don't like about the Halter collars is that they're a crutch. If a dog pulls on a plain collar, and does fine on a Halter, the minute you take the halter off it's going to pull again. However, you can take a dog on a prong/slip and gradually move to a less severe collar, till you're working on a plain buckle collar.
Also, the next snapping thing isn't a myth. A friend of mine has a dog trainer partner (She owns a kennel), and he has had 3 dogs (And heard of others) that have snapped their necks, on standard leads. (These were people he told NOT to go to the GL, but they wanted an instant fix, so they ignored him.) Usually this happens when someone doesn't know how the product works, and can't give a proper correction.
Don't get me wrong. In some circumstances it's fine. I know Moni uses one on Tenchi if he's going to be in a situation where he could easily get distracted, just for control purposes. I use a prong on Nee for the same reason. Like I said, it's not a bad product if used on the right dog, with the right training (On the person's part) and the right situation.
Ang
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I am going to jump in here with my perspective as a dog trainer. It is true that some dogs simply don't have the personality to tolerate the GL. I only recommend it for dogs that are not already submissive, who pull very hard on the leash, are extremely distracted OR who show signs of aggression/assertiveness toward other dogs. I frequently do recommend the prong or pinch collar for dogs who cannot tolerate the GL. But in either case, I take the time to demo to the customer exactly how each piece of equipment should be used and tell them in no uncertain terms how it should NOT be used. One of my adts uses a GL b/c of dominance issues toward other dogs, and it works very well in that regard. Just my 32 cents!
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I wouldn't take my Newfies out together without some kind of head collar on. I only have the one who really pulls, and I have to admit she still pulls on her halti, which isn't something I have had before! She has also managed to bite through about 5 halti's... Little madam. The others are fine on a normal collar and lead if walked alone, but I use a head collar simply because if something spooked them my arm would be broken!!
I think I really must put some time in alone with Honey though. I will use the method of turning in different directions as I did with other dogs as I know it works. It is just that she is so strong, that I get completely warn out trying to keep hold of her lead :-X
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We just got a GL for Kali and generally she's good on a leash but if something excites her she needs it. I've had it on her twice and she was good, the second time she got bored and sprawled on the floor. She doesn't mind it she only tried to rub it off once and it was very halfhearted. Yeah I'm 5'2 and am a lightweight so I need the extra leverage. She doesn't listen to me with the choke and I personally don't like them so that's why I went with the GL for me.
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The no pulling harness has worked with Tyler our vet's nard, he's about 140 lbs of obnoxious puppyness with no manners. He's also dog aggressive but I can still hold on to him when he has 40+ pounds on me. So it does work with him.
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I've never used a GL and had I heard of them when Bella was little I probably would have used it. She's terrible on leash. She's not being mean, she just wants to see everything and smell everything and wants me to go faster so she can do it all at once. As she gets older, and gets more leash time, she's getting much better. I've gone to using a wide martingale on all 3...I'm not a lightweight but a collective 330# is more than me. They can pull against it without choking and I can correct without causing harm. They tend to listen better with it than a regular choke. I'm glad I didn't use a GL now since I probably would have used it as a crutch....and all she needed was leash time. But that's my dogs and my experience and so I don't have an opinion on anything else's.
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I tried the Gentle Leader with Jack. The turning of the head was a pain. He would drift to the side and I would trip on his feet.
The tech at my vets office recommended the halter type thing that goes on the chest area. I'm thinking of giving that a try.
Keith uses a prong. He says it is tolerable. Jack still pulls but Keith feels he has control. I can't get the dang thing on him.
Tina
Tina,
Petsmart has a prong collar that has a fastener somewhat like an alligator clip built into the chain part of the collar. It is much easier to use than the regular "squeeze-the-links-to-open-at-the-prongs " type. The biggest problem I have is getting mine to stand still long enough to get hooked up, and to stop trying to steal the other's collars, LOL.
Stella
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Tinkerbell doesn't pull too hard, but upon the recommendation of her trainer, we picked up a GL this weekend. The saving grace of the whole thing was that the trainer took a good 15 minutes or so to work with Tink and get her used to the thing. The difference in her pulling and lunging was immediate and rather amazing. She's still not too fond of the thing, but using the horse-circle route (walk them in circles for a bit) takes all the fight out of the situation. Well, that and a few treats, of course.
I give it two thumbs up, so far.
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Since this was brought up again, I have to put in my experience.
Ever since Nigel's growly-bitey episodes lately I have been taking him for walks every day. I use a gentle leader to control his head AND a martingale collar around his neck with a leash. This is so if he were to lunge, the collar around his neck would catch him instead of having his head pulled to the side too quickly by the GL. Sure it looks funny and I am practically 'driving' him with reins, but I am telling you he is now walking like a perfect gentleman and there is always slack in both my leads! ;D Success!!!
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Since this was brought up again, I have to put in my experience.
Ever since Nigel's growly-bitey episodes lately I have been taking him for walks every day. I use a gentle leader to control his head AND a martingale collar around his neck with a leash. This is so if he were to lunge, the collar around his neck would catch him instead of having his head pulled to the side too quickly by the GL. Sure it looks funny and I am practically 'driving' him with reins, but I am telling you he is now walking like a perfect gentleman and there is always slack in both my leads! ;D Success!!!
I have done that same exact thing with sasha--a leash hooked to her GL, and a second one hooked to her regular collar, and yes, it does look like 'driving a team of horses', but it's just one lone dog! But I didnt care how it looked---it worked, and Sasha was very well behaved because of it!
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Congrats to all who are having success with this! Having used one, I'm a huge believer in the GL. It saved my relationship with the pooch I was having trouble with. Hope with Nigel it will also translate into better behavior with the other dogs if he can work off some of his energy. That's what it's all about - having a better relationship with the dog.
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I use a gentle leader to control his head AND a martingale collar around his neck with a leash. This is so if he were to lunge, the collar around his neck would catch him instead of having his head pulled to the side too quickly by the GL.
What a great idea - I will have to give that a try. When I walk the 3 of mine at once, it is very hard to control them when they encounter a distration. I have tried all collar types (halti, GL, prong, choke) and I find the best results with the GL, but the stories scare me, so I rarely use it. I think i will give your method a try.
Jocelyne
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With Lacey I use the GL as the main collar and have her wear a harness with the leash to that clipped around my waist....spiff y dogs makes on where there is a climbing clip at the end so it's easy to loop through. This means she can't slip out from her GL or a regular collar (which she's good at). It does look a little dumb but it's better to have the fail safe of something she can't slip out off.