Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Rescue Forum => Helpful Groups & Dogs in Need => : marinafb October 03, 2006, 01:09:01 AM
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I posted this on a site where they are constantly posting animals for FREE and I received so many nasty emails. Can’t imagine why?
Free to Good Home
By Michelle Crean, Animal Aid of SW MI
© 1999 by Animal Aid and Michelle Crean.
Reprinted with kind permission from Animal Aid and Michelle Crean http://www.parrett.net/animalaid/index.html
Animal Aid has frequently been criticized for charging an adoption fee. "If you're so anxious to find homes for these pets," we're told, "you should just give them away."
This attitude makes us shudder. In the first place, these small fees in no way begin to cover the cost incurred for medical treatment and upkeep of the pets we adopt out. Yes, we're anxious to find homes for our animals--GOOD homes. And some people who take free pets do provide wonderful homes. However, frequently--much too frequently!--Animal Aid is called in to rescue former "free to good home" animals.
Did you know:
1) People value what they pay for. Pets obtained for free are are less likely to be spayed or neutered by their new owners (why bother with vet bills?), and more likely to be abused and/or discarded, because "there are plenty more where that came from!" A recent study at one animal shelter yielded the startling statistic that 51% of all owner-surrendered dogs had been purchased for less than $100; 41% of all owner-surrendered dogs had been obtained "Free to good home."
This handsome, well-fed-looking fellow is Brutus, and he is an Animal Aid rescue. Brutus was the pampered friend of "Mark." Brutus and Mark played ball together and walked on the beach together, and, in general, enjoyed each other's company. Then, Mark's company transferred him to a different state. Mark didn't know how to take Brutus with him, or considered it unfair to submit his friend to the trauma of moving, or just plain didn't know that most states DO allow big, good-natured dogs to move in with their masters.
Whatever the reason, Mark placed an ad in his local newspaper: "Free to good home, friendly, lovable black lab." Someone saw the ad, called Mark, and said, "That's just the dog I've been looking for. Can I come over and see him?" The new person was very nice to Brutus, talked to him, rubbed his ears just the way Brutus liked to have his ears rubbed, and convinced Mark that he and Brutus were just made for each other.
This is Brutus's new owner's idea of a good home-- at the end of a two-foot chain tied to a rope collar, in a garbage-filled backyard, no water dish or food bowl anywhere in sight. This sweet, loving dog was now 20 pounds underweight, suffering from dehydration, malnutrition, fleas, intestinal worms, mange, fly-chewed ears, heartworm, and, worst of all, neglect.
Luckily for him, neighbors called an Animal Aid volunteer, who arrived accompanied by a policeman. The new owner was arrested, charged, and convicted with cruelty to animals. He paid a fine which probably equaled less than Brutus's medical bills.
Brutus went to the vet for all kinds of medicine, then home with the volunteer for lunch. Several years later, he's been adopted by the volunteer, and still eating! He's well and happy and a bit overweight; greets everyone with a tail wag and a wet kiss. But he still wants you to remember this story and this photo every time you see an ad that says, "Free to good home."
2) So-called "Bunchers" gather free pets until they have enough for a trip to a Class B Dealer who is licensed by the USDA to sell to sell animals from "random sources" for research. The Buncher may only get $25 a head for former pets, while a dealer can between $100 - $450 per pet. The Class B dealer probably already has a contract with certain facilities, and will transport them to other areas within a state, even out of state.
While, unfortunately, there are legitimate medical reasons to use some animals in experimentatio n, the majority of reputable medical labs use animals bred for the specific purpose. However, there are many, many different types of animal "research," and many types of facilities that use dogs. Almost every cosmetic, household, and chemical product is tested on animals, including former pets obtained from shelters and Class B Dealers. Veterinary schools and medical schools, and even some engineering schools use dogs and cats in classrooms and "research." Textile manufacturers who make products for medical use test and demonstrate on dogs, frequently retired racing greyhounds.
Research facilities that use live animals in testing are supposed to be registered with the USDA (though not all are); the USDA list of such facilities on their website cites 34 in the state of Michigan, mostly colleges and universities, as well as Borgess Medical Center, Dow Chemical, Dow Corning, Pharmacia & Upjohn, etc. (Please note that not all of these use dogs or cats.)
3) Free animals are taken to "blood" pit-bulls--to train fighting dogs how to kill, and to enjoy it. This can be dogs and cats, of any size--in fact, rescuers suspect that a recently rescued cat was used in this manner. Often, a larger dog's muzzle will be duct-taped shut so that he can't bite back, and the fighting dog will gain confidence in killing a dog larger than he is.
4) One "adoptor" in this area took free kittens to his "good home"--as dinner for a pet snake.
5) Unspayed or unneutered pure-bred dogs may end up as "breeding stock" in a puppy mill. One woman was certain that if she didn't give away her Dalmatians' AKC registration papers along with the dogs, she could keep them safe from millers. Wrong. Unscrupulous breeders, who use puppies as cash crops like other farmers raise cattle, pigs, or chickens, aren't above forging registration papers, or using those from deceased dogs. Rescuers have learned the hard to way to make sure that all pets they place have been spayed or neutered before going to new homes.
6) So-called "collectors" watch the newspapers for Free to Good Home animals. These collectors truly believe they are "rescuing" the animals. Animal Aid had dealings with one such collector, right here in Southwestern Michigan.
When the two Animal Aid volunteers and the policeman walked up the steps of an ordinary-looking house in Galien, MI, they had no idea they were walking into a living h*ll.
Neighbors had complained about foul smells coming from the house; the owner, they said, kept dozens of cats in there, but they hadn't seen her in a couple of weeks. The place smelled, all right; a strong odor assaulted their noses the minute they got out of the car. Still, nothing in their experiences could have prepared them for what stunned their senses as they opened that front door: the unimaginable sights and silence and stomach-churning stench of mass death. Light was dim, and they saw trash all around--trash, and bodies. The owner of the house had simply locked the doors and windows and left dozens of cats behind with no food or water, to die. The only thing that kept the volunteers from collapsing in despair were faint rustles, scratches, mews, coming from just out of sight around the corner. There were still live cats in this house of horrors.
Estimates range from 40 - 60 as the number of cats this lady had abandoned; it was impossible to tell for sure. Over the next few days, volunteers from Animal Aid and the Humane Society trapped and removed all of the live animals they could find. There were 18, in a wide range of ages, and of these, two later died.
All of them were starving, dehydrated, and totally unsociable. They had survived the only way they could, by preying on the small, the weak, the sick, and the dead. Rescued kittens lived in fear of adult cats; adult cats lived in fear of each other--and of human contact.
Phoenix and Zorro went to an Animal Aid volunteer for fostering; they have since been adopted. The other 14 went out to the Humane Society of SW MI, where all but three have also been adopted--most locally, but two are now thriving under the care of a lady in Kansas City, MO! Phoenix and Zorro still mistrust humans, and to quote one of the rescuers about the three who will probably live out their days at the Humane Society, "They need to go to a home that doesn't expect anything from them but just to live there."
Meanwhile, a warrant was issued for the arrest of the house's owner, and the entire area was outraged to learn that this was her THIRD offense! The THIRD time she had "collected" a house full of cats, and then abandoned them, the SECOND time in this very same house!
How could this happen? It's not as unusual as you might believe--or hope. Such people are called "collectors;" they take in orphaned dogs or cats, watch the "free to good home" ads, either don't believe in spaying and neutering or run out of funds for the vet bills. These collectors actually think they are "rescuing" the animals! More and more free pets come to them--they're very convincing; and they truly do love pets--and the ones they have keep reproducing, until the collectors are overwhelmed. In the best circumstances, animal rescue organizations are called. In the worst--the collector simply walks away.
This particular collector was located in another state, and brought back for trial. She will serve jail time, pay a fine, do community service, but there is no guarantee that when her sentence is served, she won't simply move to another house in another community in another state, and start answering "Free to good home" ads again.
As for the police, the neighbors, and especially the volunteers involved in the rescue of the Galien kitties--more than a year later, they're still having nightmares.
WHAT CAN YOU DO?
Some folks answering the "Free to Good Home" ads really are loving, responsible pet owners. Many--perhaps even most--are not. There are steps YOU can take to help end abuse:
DON'T advertise Free pets; DO convince others not to. Some people even take the time to phone owners of pets advertising Free to Good Home and warn them of the dangers.
DO spay/neuter to keep from creating possible Free to Good Home situations or condemning your pet to a short, miserable life in a puppy mill.
DO write letters to the editors of your local newspapers warning of the dangers of Free to Good Home.
DO contact breed rescue organizations (there is one for every breed of pure-bred dog!) or local animal welfare organizations for help in placing unwanted pets; if you bought the pet from a responsible breeder, he/she will help you rehome the pet.
DO charge at least $25 to discourage resale of pets to labs. (Some sources suggest charging no less than $100 for pure-bred dogs.)
DO take the time to interview every prospective owner. Ask for vet and personnel references, and check them, then visit the new home where your pet might be living!
DO write a letter to your congressmen in support of doing away with Class B dealers, who sell animals obtained from "random sources" to research facilities. Random sources include strays, stolen pets, seized shelter animals, animals purchased at flea markets--and pets found through "Free to good home" ads.
DO report any incidence of suspected dog-fighting to police, Animal Control, and your local Humane Society. DON'T try to stop these people yourselves; there is a lot of money involved here, and you could be putting yourself and your pets at risk if you try to intervene alone.
DO call police, animal welfare workers, even the health department, if someone in your area seems to be "collecting" cats or dogs
DO write to district attorneys, judges, and prosecutors if you hear of the arrest of any so-called collectors in your area, and urge them not only to prosecute to the full extent of the law, but also to mandate psychological counseling for these individuals in the hopes of avoiding repeat violations.
DO call police or animal welfare workers for any incidences of suspected abuse. Be willing to testify in court, if necessary. Note: what constitutes animal abuse is defined by state law. If your state has inadequate abuse laws, TRY TO CHANGE THEM!
Remember -- the welfare of pets is in ALL of our hands!
Author's Note: Brutus, our "Free To Good Home?" poster dog, went to the Rainbow Bridge on 27 February 2002. We estimate his age at 13 years; he lived the last 6 of them in the lap of luxury with his rescuers. Brutus was a favorite visitor at area schools, and touched the hearts of everyone who met him. We will all miss him.
Brutus's Memorial
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I hope you don't mind...I'm stealing this to post on another board where someone just said I was lying about research and baiting. Jerk.
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I posted it on Craigslist. People on there piss me off on a daily basis. I especially hate it when they say something like "we bought her for $500, you can have her for $250" or "adoption fee is $500 since we've only had her a few weeks"
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>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Oh thats wonderful i hoped people would pass it on that was the whole reason for posting it ! Please be my guest post it. Thanks marina
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I agree in some aspects but not all. I DONT agree with people selling animals that they found or rescued in some way. I DONT agree with selling any animal that is not registered for an unreasonalb amount. I think its an easy way for some people to make money off animals and I think its rediculous. Even selling registered animals for thousands or even hundreds in some cases seems totally wrong to me. I can understand if its a rare breed or something like that, but I dont think that registered dogs are any more valuable that mixed breeds or strays. To pay for an animal that you can show os one thing, but to pay for a dog that you can just brag about and not truly care for is ludacris. But, Im just one person and thats just my opinion.
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I am always watchful of this too. I had to find a new home for a dog, and when I spoke with many rescue organizations, they were all adament that I ask for something. Anything, because even if you ask for $50, it will steer away the people looking for free dogs to sell for research. Did you know that in Britain, it is SUPER against the law for research groups and organizations to buy such animals? They actually have legislation that prevents any former pet from allowing to become a research animal. I wish that was the case here.
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I hope you don't mind...I'm stealing this to post on another board where someone just said I was lying about research and baiting. Jerk.Â
I'm just wondering...I've heard of people selling pets for research to labs...but only from people like us (rescue people or just dog lovers)...but...I guess I'm just wondering, where is the evidence for this? I'm not saying that I don't believe it, but I have never heard of it from anyone other than a rescue person, and even then, its not as if it is first-hand information.
Anyone? Is there any hard evidence of this?
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I'm sure it'll be really difficult to get hard evidence for something like that. People tend to cover their tracks pretty well.
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Ugh...I posted that on Craigslist and I'm already getting angry replies...
Did you know many shelters/rescues had rather kill animals than give them away? Did you know many of these rescues have no better conditions than the ones they criticize? Do you ever see the news where mass amounts of animals are neglected at these rescues/shelters? It’s about recouping money or turning a profit at all cost even if it means the death of the animal. One case that always burns me is on pet finder, there are parrots stolen from a volunteer at the shelter. These birds are the most expensive birds money can buy. How do you think they came across these? My guess is they got stolen from a thief. Take a look at pet finder main page you will see where rescues are arguing over pets like meat, and fighting with each other like children. Don’t be fooled by these rescues that are doing this out of the kindness of their hart. Bottom line is money. This new excuse is just a new way to help them find peace when they try to sleep at night. By the way I wonder how many animals that go to these rescues/shelters come out alive. I am in no way criticizing city shelters. They do what they have to do. It’s these places that say they are charging so they make sure they have a good home. The sad thing is when a mix breed does not have the same ADOPTION FEE as the pure breeds. This is because they know they can flat out sell these animals. Money that’s it folks this rescue is a business. I worked with some of these people before. Ask them about the freezer full of dead animals they have if they don’t they are they are not in compliance with Texas Humane Society. Some have bigger freezers than others. I understand the local shelters trying to recoup money for services. At least they don’t use this we are charging so they go to a good home lie. By the way I just had a cat of mine die that I got for free, he was 3 years old when I got him I had him for another 18 years. I have a dog that I got for free had her for 6 years she is laying on my lap as I am typing this. If paying money for an animal is fail safe for good care 80% of the pit bulls that are being killed would not be.
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I'm sure it'll be really difficult to get hard evidence for something like that. People tend to cover their tracks pretty well.
well...sure. But, what I'm saying is that if people like you and I are discussing it, its surely because someone has been in trouble for it before? Or because its legal and people think its bad?
You know what I'm saying...many murderers cover their tracks well, too....but we know it exists because some of them are arrested, and because it is illegal.
So, what about this "bunching" thing? Illegal? Someone ever been arrested for it? That's what I mean...
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Ok...I did some research and found that APHIS (Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service of the USDA) is charged with regulating "Class B" animal dealers. Interesting stuff, for anyone concerned. Here's the website:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/awlicreg.html
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Hundreds of dogs seized from Arkansas Class-B dealer
In the largest multi-agency investigation (Federal, State and Local) on any animal issue in the history of the United States, the USDA has seized hundreds of dogs, mostly beagle, hound, and lab mix from a kennel operated by a Class-B dealer in Northeast Arkansas
Scroll down to learn what you can do to help
and why it is never a good idea to offer dogs for free to good homes.
Dogs seized in Northeast Arkansas
WILLIFORD, Ark. -- Federal and local investigators have been looking into allegations of animal abuse at the Martin Creek Kennels.
Kennel owner C.C. Baird, a Class B dog dealer, is reported to be one of the largest licensed animal dealers in the United States. On August 26, 2003, he was served a federal search warrant and now members of the Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Postal Service, and local law enforcement put his animal trading business under heavy investigation.
Sources say the animal trader is allegedly killing animals, removing vital body parts and selling them to research laboratories. U.S. Attorney Bud Cummins reported that details were strong enough to prompt a raid.
"Anytime a federal search warrant has been issued, federal agents have collected information that means probable cause has been determined and a crime has been committed," Cummings said.
Local residents like Wanda Mathews say they believe his business was legitimate.
"You know how you hear people say are they going around picking up peoples dogs and stuff like that but we really didn't think he was," Mathews said. "He'd been investigated before and I thought it was all over."
In 1997 Baird was found guilty of violating the Animal Welfare Act and was fined $5,000.
Cummings says agents will examine documents to see where the investigation leads them.
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Hundreds of dogs seized from Arkansas Class-B dealer
In the largest multi-agency investigation (Federal, State and Local) on any animal issue in the history of the United States, the USDA has seized hundreds of dogs, mostly beagle, hound, and lab mix from a kennel operated by a Class-B dealer in Northeast Arkansas
Scroll down to learn what you can do to help
and why it is never a good idea to offer dogs for free to good homes.
Dogs seized in Northeast Arkansas
WILLIFORD, Ark. -- Federal and local investigators have been looking into allegations of animal abuse at the Martin Creek Kennels.
Kennel owner C.C. Baird, a Class B dog dealer, is reported to be one of the largest licensed animal dealers in the United States. On August 26, 2003, he was served a federal search warrant and now members of the Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Postal Service, and local law enforcement put his animal trading business under heavy investigation.
Sources say the animal trader is allegedly killing animals, removing vital body parts and selling them to research laboratories. U.S. Attorney Bud Cummins reported that details were strong enough to prompt a raid.
"Anytime a federal search warrant has been issued, federal agents have collected information that means probable cause has been determined and a crime has been committed," Cummings said.
Local residents like Wanda Mathews say they believe his business was legitimate.
"You know how you hear people say are they going around picking up peoples dogs and stuff like that but we really didn't think he was," Mathews said. "He'd been investigated before and I thought it was all over."
In 1997 Baird was found guilty of violating the Animal Welfare Act and was fined $5,000.
Cummings says agents will examine documents to see where the investigation leads them.
Yeah, I found this...but it didn't give any source for the information... so, basically anyone could have written it. It was posted on Animal Aid of Southwest Michigan's website.
I just like to have sources listed with my news, otherwise, ya never know, eh?
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Pet owners may feel they have little recourse when they think that their animals have been stolen for research.
but dont tell that to Donald Johnson. The Bellevue, Wash., resident was the first pet owner to win a lawsuit against an animal dealer accused of improperly turning pets over to university researchers.
In 1986, Mr. Johnson had decided that he could no longer care for his pet dog, Sosha, because of his long hours as an engineer at the Boeing Company. He placed an advertisement in a local paper and began interviewing people to take the dog.
When he met Donald and Judith Peters, he thought he had found the perfect home for Sosha. The middle-aged couple promised to raise her on their farm and allow Mr. Johnson to visit regularly.
Three weeks after he left Sosha in their care, the dog was killed in a lung -injury experiment at the University of Washington.
$8,000 in damages
Mr. and Ms. Peters, Mr. Johnson soon learned, were Class B animal dealers. They had sold the dog to the university of Washington, along with a regular shipment of research dogs, a week after getting her. Class B dealers generally are those who buy and sell animals rather than breed them.
A year ago he won $8,000 in damages in Snohomish County Superior Court settlement. The dealers were found to have misrepresented themselves to Mr. Johnson, making false statements, and violating their contract with him.
Ms. Peters has died, Mr. Peters is no longer an animal dealer and could not be reached for comment.
Mr. Johnson, an alumnus of the University of Washington, took no legal action against the institution. But he feels that its conduct was reprehensible.
The university of Washington does not give a rip one way or another whether they are using stolen pets in research, he says. The only time they take any action is when they get their hands stuck in the cookie jar. He says the university should have been able to see that Sosha was a pet. The dog had recently been spayed and that should have made the university researcher suspicious, he explains.
Whats more, he says, the university continued dealing with Mr. and Ms. Peters even after his case became well known.
University of Washington administrators say they are vigilant in insuring that no stolen animals are used in research. Gerald Van Hoosier, professor and chairman of the department of comparative medicine, says the university continuously reviews its animal vendors and takes seriously all complaints.
The university did stop dealing with the couple after examining the evidence collected in the case, he says. We do not jump to conclusions when animal-rights people bring up allegations. We like to do our own inquiries.
Dr. Van Hoosier says animal-rights groups are trying to cut off all sources of research animals to universities.
If we could purchase dogs from the pounds, we would not need to get them from Class B dealers, he adds. In 1986 the King County Council barred the University of Washington from buying dogs at the local pound, in order to prevent pets from being killed.
Animal-rights activists can't be satisfied, says Dr. Van Hoosier
Cindy L. "got to go hug the dog now" Davies
cldavies@silver.sdsmt.edu
cldavies@rapidnet.com http://rapidnet.com/~cldavies/schhome.html
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Pet owners may feel they have little recourse when they think that their animals have been stolen for research.
but dont tell that to Donald Johnson. The Bellevue, Wash., resident was the first pet owner to win a lawsuit against an animal dealer accused of improperly turning pets over to university researchers.
In 1986, Mr. Johnson had decided that he could no longer care for his pet dog, Sosha, because of his long hours as an engineer at the Boeing Company. He placed an advertisement in a local paper and began interviewing people to take the dog.
When he met Donald and Judith Peters, he thought he had found the perfect home for Sosha. The middle-aged couple promised to raise her on their farm and allow Mr. Johnson to visit regularly.
Three weeks after he left Sosha in their care, the dog was killed in a lung -injury experiment at the University of Washington.
$8,000 in damages
Mr. and Ms. Peters, Mr. Johnson soon learned, were Class B animal dealers. They had sold the dog to the university of Washington, along with a regular shipment of research dogs, a week after getting her. Class B dealers generally are those who buy and sell animals rather than breed them.
A year ago he won $8,000 in damages in Snohomish County Superior Court settlement. The dealers were found to have misrepresented themselves to Mr. Johnson, making false statements, and violating their contract with him.
Ms. Peters has died, Mr. Peters is no longer an animal dealer and could not be reached for comment.
Mr. Johnson, an alumnus of the University of Washington, took no legal action against the institution. But he feels that its conduct was reprehensible.
The university of Washington does not give a rip one way or another whether they are using stolen pets in research, he says. The only time they take any action is when they get their hands stuck in the cookie jar. He says the university should have been able to see that Sosha was a pet. The dog had recently been spayed and that should have made the university researcher suspicious, he explains.
Whats more, he says, the university continued dealing with Mr. and Ms. Peters even after his case became well known.
University of Washington administrators say they are vigilant in insuring that no stolen animals are used in research. Gerald Van Hoosier, professor and chairman of the department of comparative medicine, says the university continuously reviews its animal vendors and takes seriously all complaints.
The university did stop dealing with the couple after examining the evidence collected in the case, he says. We do not jump to conclusions when animal-rights people bring up allegations. We like to do our own inquiries.
Dr. Van Hoosier says animal-rights groups are trying to cut off all sources of research animals to universities.
If we could purchase dogs from the pounds, we would not need to get them from Class B dealers, he adds. In 1986 the King County Council barred the University of Washington from buying dogs at the local pound, in order to prevent pets from being killed.
Animal-rights activists can't be satisfied, says Dr. Van Hoosier
Cindy L. "got to go hug the dog now" Davies
cldavies@silver.sdsmt.edu
cldavies@rapidnet.com http://rapidnet.com/~cldavies/schhome.html
Um, I certainly don't mean to get into an information war with you, Marina, however...this article is once again, uncited. I did a little probing, and found the same one on an Urban Legends website.
http://tafkac.org/animals/kidnapping_research.html
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DO contact breed rescue organizations (there is one for every breed of pure-bred dog!) or local animal welfare organizations for help in placing unwanted pets; if you bought the pet from a responsible breeder, he/she will help you rehome the pet.
This has certainly hit home as we try to rehome Katie. I've been very concerned with how we try to "advertise" her without reaching people who won't care for her or will abuse her. Unfortunately, the rescue group has also not been much help. I've come to the conclusion that we need to find a person who has previously owned a pet and lost it. The difficulty is finding that person. It is a complicated problem without easy solutions.
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I don’t plan on going to war with anyone over this issue its common knowledge that animals including dogs are used for research animal parts, fighting you name it. You can either face the facts or ignore it. The reason I posted this on 1 of the sites I check out locally is people are listing there animals in bold lettering free CAT FREE DOG. There’s more involved then just posting animals and getting rid of the animal if you truly care what kind of home your pet ends up in. I always list the rescue sites depending on what type of dog the person has or try and hook them up with a foster home until the proper home can be found for the dog. You never want to make someone feel like there only alternative is just letting there pet free or dropping them off by the side of the highway which happens more then anyone would like to know. I m hoping to prevent the animals from turning into bait or on the door step of a research center. Sorry if I offended anyone! MarinaÂ
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I don’t plan on going to war with anyone over this issue its common knowledge that animals including dogs are used for research animal parts, fighting you name it. You can either face the facts or ignore it. The reason I posted this on 1 of the sites I check out locally is people are listing there animals in bold lettering free CAT FREE DOG. There’s more involved then just posting animals and getting rid of the animal if you truly care what kind of home your pet ends up in. I always list the rescue sites depending on what type of dog the person has or try and hook them up with a foster home until the proper home can be found for the dog. You never want to make someone feel like there only alternative is just letting there pet free or dropping them off by the side of the highway which happens more then anyone would like to know. I m hoping to prevent the animals from turning into bait or on the door step of a research center. Sorry if I offended anyone! MarinaÂ
Hey Marina,
I know that its common for animals to be used for research. But, what I was saying is that it really isn't that common for pets to be stolen and sold for research. If you look at the USDA site, you will see that is almost impossible. I know that it seems like these labs are like..the lair of the devil (and in some ways, they are...) but, they are HEAVILY regulated and monitored, and have to report where they get their animals. Most of them are also HEAVILY FUNDED by the government, and don't want to risk that funding. They need it to get by. Believe me, I worked in a lab that had live animals (birds) and the paperwork, regulation, and inspection are mind-boggling.
I don't think that it helps the "cause" to spread what really amounts to propaganda and urban legend. It is one of the reasons that people think animal rights activists are nut-jobs.
No reason to not be completely informed is all I'm sayin.
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How about a first-hand case? I live out in the country, five miles from the nearest town. Early in the morning, I would put our collie pup Dakota out on his exercise run while I got the kids up and ready for school. This run is 50 ft long, has a nice strong pulley attached to a 20 ft cable, so he had a lot of room to play while he was out there. This whole setup is only 25ft from my livingroom window, and if I had been standing at the window I would have seen it happen, I am sure. Anyway, he was out on the run, and I was getting things ready for the kids' school day. When I went out to bring him in for breakfast, he was gone, but his run and collar with tags were still attached. He had been out for less than 30 minutes. Now I *KNOW* he could not slip his collar, and whenever I let him off, the first thing he would do was run for the house, so he would have been right close by if he had gotten loose on his own. We never saw him again. The following summer, I was talking to a guy up the road, and it seems the neighbor between my house and the one I was talking to, was raising litters of beagle puppies, about 10 litters a year, and selling them to a class B dealer out of Ohio. I never had any real evidence to file a case, but it sure seems a bit too much of a coincidence to me.
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maybe you missed the special they had running on HBO not to long ago where they showed people who had stolen other peoples pets and then resold them?
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maybe you missed the special they had running on HBO not to long ago where they showed people who had stolen other peoples pets and then resold them?
DH recently investigated a case like this in our area but it fell apart when the people moved just days before he got all the paperwork together to arrest them >:(
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I have a book called "Stolen For Profit". It is a large book with many many accounts of how these bunchers work. I assure you guys who have doubts, it's not an urban legend. There are heartbreaking photos and testimonials from folks who have been victimized by these bunchers. Tomorrow, when it's not so late, I'd be more than happy to post some excerpts from the book if anyone cares to read them.
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Before i moved back in to the city and even after i did there was a dog ring that were stealing purebreeds and reselling them they listed the breeds that they were taking and at that time i had both of them.To me it would'nt matter how much land you have my dogs are NEVER left unsupervised.I have had friends and family tell me you worry to much. All 3 of my dogs are rescues and they are purebreeds but that is not why i rescued them i feel i have to be extra careful in protecting them from people that tell me you have dogs that kill other dogs and attack humans there breed gives them a bad rap. I have done everything in my power to make sure that my dogs are socialized properly trained and well behaved. Which is to my disadvantage becacuse all 3 of mine would go with anyone. The mailman UPS ,and and the Fed EX man could be there friends.They would most likly bring them back after they realized how spoiled they are!
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I have no question that animals are stolen for profit. One of my bestest friends and BPO member Jenn had her Doberman stolen and sold to another family.
I'm just saying that the evidence for the stolen for RESEARCH aspect of it is a little shaky, in my opinion, and based on the bit of research I did yesterday.
The collie pup stolen? Sure. He probably was. Was he sold to a research facility? Probably not. Were those beagle pups sold to a research facility? Probably not. A Class B dealer is JUST someone that buys animals from random sources. That is all. It does NOT include the designation that the animals are sold for research. And who are these shadowy "reserach facilitites" anyway? They are places like.oh..JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY. HARVARD MEDICAL. DUKE MEDICAL CENTER. Those are what we are talking about when we say "reserach facilities" Oh, and those of major coorporations. ..Bic, Revlon, etc. Not those little rinky-dink research facilities (?) that are implied when we all gasp and think about the bunchers.
Most of the animals stolen and resold are sold to other families and to pet stores. There are only TWENTY Class B dealers in this country. Class B MEANS SOMETHING. The USDA monitors the crap out of them. The only case I could find on the internet yesterday of a busted buncher was one of FRAUD and MONEY LAUNDERING. Which, my friends, is the only way your pet could be sold to a reserach facility without the government knowing. The only way is if the dealer lies. And...when they do, the get busted. The method of checking for these things is pretty hard to cheat. Everyone has to document every step of the way who bought what from who.
No, I didn't see the HBO special about this. Was it about research?
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I like your response, Jenn. Very well said.
That guy that was profiled in that other article was busted for money laundering and mail fraud.
I also would like to say that OF COURSE I don't think that animal research is awesome! Its horrible! But, so is the factory farming industry...and I bet most of the people on this board still buy meat at the grocery store. In many ways, that problem is WAY huger than the animal research problem.
Also, rats and mice are more genetically similar to humans than cats and dogs, and are FAR preferable for research.
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No, I didn't see the HBO special about this. Was it about research?
I believe that the kennel profiled in the HBO special is the kennel that is referenced in the link I provided before. Again, in this info it states that the US has only 20 licensed Class B dealers in the ENTIRE country. Out of these dealers, only one has had evidence against them pertaining to theft.
Do dogs get stolen? Certainly, for a myriad of reasons. Do Class B dealers sell strays to research facilities? Yes, its legal. Do Class B dealers sell dogs from pounds to research facilities? Yep, also legal. The thing is, the stolen dogs are such a small, small part of the overall problem. I'm not saying don't be careful with your dogs. I learned the hard way on that one. I'm not saying that it never ever happens. But, the whole thing, even this thread, is kind of REACTIVE, when we should be being PROACTIVE.
Don't like the way reasearch on animals is handled? Me neither. I don't think dogs and cats should be used as test subjects at all. If we put our energy into stopping the use of pets in research all together, there wouldn't be any reason to worry about our dogs being stolen for research, because no company could buy them. I think if this is something people are interested in working with, it is important to have ALL the facts though. Not just those aligned with your side. Otherwise we'll come off looking like the whacko's that give all of us dog lovers a bad name.Â
DITTO DITTO DITTO
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Well, I'm a child of the devil...
My dad worked in a lab doing animal research for a good portion of time when I was young. So I've got a little cnnection to the "inside" of animal testing. He worked with Stanford labs. Most of the experiments are done on rats and mice. These animals are purchased from mass dealers.
In the time that he was there, the lab only worked on two studies that involved "pet" animals. The first only used one subject, (I'm sorry, I wish I could remember for certain what the study was for, though I'm pretty sure it was for rheumatoid arthritis) a Golden lab mix named Rudy. He was the lab mascot of sorts, and was well-cared for (3 daily walks even), other than consistent blood tests. He was acquired from a shelter.
The other study used cats for a drug study related to Leukemia. These cats were FeLv positive cats acquired from local shelters and owners. Owners surrendering a pet had to sign contracts and provide vet records to prove that the cat had actually been in their care for at least 6 months. (In case you were wondering, the study didn't produce much of anything as far as human leukemia, but did aid inthe development of treatments for cats)
Do I think that animal research is good? No. But my point is that, atleast in upstanding research facilities, the possibility of receiving stolen pets is small. Also, testing on "pet" animals other than mice and rats is very rare, for a few reasons, (these reasons given to me by my father):
* The first is the expense involved. Rats and mice are cheaper to feed and a lot easier to house do to their size.
*Their systems mimic ours much more so than cats and dogs
* They can be used in studies that call for lots of test subjects
and, most importantly,
Using dogs and cats is too hard for the researchers. With mice and rats, it's easier to disconnect than with dogs and cats. They've found that the job becomes more stressful and less productive when using pet animals. (The four scientists assigned to the study with Rudy cried when he had to be put to asleep for an unrelated tumor.)
But, my basic, and somewhat long-winded, point is that pet animals are rarely used in medical research, and there is little room for stolen animals.
However, I must add that non-medical testing, such as for cosmetics, etc. is not nearly as regulated, and does not necessarily avoid the use of pet animals. (Though much of their testing focuses on rabbits)
And a final disclaimer, I am not a supporter of animal research. I just wanted the relay the information that I've received from a reliable source.
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Well, I'm a child of the devil...
My dad worked in a lab doing animal research for a good portion of time when I was young. So I've got a little cnnection to the "inside" of animal testing. He worked with Stanford labs. Most of the experiments are done on rats and mice. These animals are purchased from mass dealers.
In the time that he was there, the lab only worked on two studies that involved "pet" animals. The first only used one subject, (I'm sorry, I wish I could remember for certain what the study was for, though I'm pretty sure it was for rheumatoid arthritis) a Golden lab mix named Rudy. He was the lab mascot of sorts, and was well-cared for (3 daily walks even), other than consistent blood tests. He was acquired from a shelter.
The other study used cats for a drug study related to Leukemia. These cats were FeLv positive cats acquired from local shelters and owners. Owners surrendering a pet had to sign contracts and provide vet records to prove that the cat had actually been in their care for at least 6 months. (In case you were wondering, the study didn't produce much of anything as far as human leukemia, but did aid inthe development of treatments for cats)
Do I think that animal research is good? No. But my point is that, atleast in upstanding research facilities, the possibility of receiving stolen pets is small. Also, testing on "pet" animals other than mice and rats is very rare, for a few reasons, (these reasons given to me by my father):
* The first is the expense involved. Rats and mice are cheaper to feed and a lot easier to house do to their size.
*Their systems mimic ours much more so than cats and dogs
* They can be used in studies that call for lots of test subjects
and, most importantly,
Using dogs and cats is too hard for the researchers. With mice and rats, it's easier to disconnect than with dogs and cats. They've found that the job becomes more stressful and less productive when using pet animals. (The four scientists assigned to the study with Rudy cried when he had to be put to asleep for an unrelated tumor.)
But, my basic, and somewhat long-winded, point is that pet animals are rarely used in medical research, and there is little room for stolen animals.
However, I must add that non-medical testing, such as for cosmetics, etc. is not nearly as regulated, and does not necessarily avoid the use of pet animals. (Though much of their testing focuses on rabbits)
And a final disclaimer, I am not a supporter of animal research. I just wanted the relay the information that I've received from a reliable source.
Thank you for such an eloquent and informed response.
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My mom is a Dr of Endocrinology in Philly and when they do research experiments not only did they use dogs but rabbits, cats and monkeys. She informs me that goes on more than anyone wants to believe. She now has a office at the VA Hospital plus travels and lectures all over the world. My Dad loves dogs but she never allowed us to have a pet when we were growing up. I have always loved dogs and knew when I was on my own I would have more than 1 dog!