Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Training Forum => Behavior, Housebreaking, Obedience => : lulu October 21, 2006, 09:17:14 AM
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I have been thinking about getting shock collars for my 2 dogs, my golden and my unknown mixed breed dog that was a stray i adopted. the biggest issues that we are hoping to correct with a shock collar is chewing (on rugs, carpets, ect, chasing the cats, and digging ( we just put sod down in our backyard). my question is this - how do i train 2 dogs at once? or should i just do one at a time? i have never used a shock collar before but have heard good things abOut them from ppl who have and i have done a lot of research on them.
so, does anybody have any tips for training 2 dogs at once? or will it be easier and less confusing for the dogs if i do one dog at a time?
any suggestions?
thanks,Leah
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I have been thinking about getting shock collars for my 2 dogs, my golden and my unknown mixed breed dog that was a stray i adopted. the biggest issues that we are hoping to correct with a shock collar is chewing (on rugs, carpets, ect, chasing the cats, and digging ( we just put sod down in our backyard). my question is this - how do i train 2 dogs at once? or should i just do one at a time? i have never used a shock collar before but have heard good things abOut them from ppl who have and i have done a lot of research on them.
so, does anybody have any tips for training 2 dogs at once? or will it be easier and less confusing for the dogs if i do one dog at a time?
any suggestions?
thanks,Leah
these are inside shock collars i take it? or the invisible fence with inside shock monitors?
we have the fence that came with a couple of training sessions. the guy used flags in the yard that we left up for weeks to teach the girls their boundaries. they train very well. i think it's best to train them one at a time unless that's impossible. try putting up some kind of marker (placing it in an area that is inside the spot you want to know to stop at) to show them where the boundaries are and when they reach the boundaries let them hear the beeps and maybe feel the shock once. they'll learn quickly. after a week or so remove the markers since they'll have learned by then and that should be that.
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Why, Leah? Shame on you. You wouldn't dare take the easy way out. Shame, shame!
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No Lins.. it would be a remote controlled e collar.
Honestly, I think there are way too many things to work on to use an e collar. It becomes confusing to train even one dog on multiple issues if it's with an e collar.
I have one. It was my point of last resort after we'd done a load of training. While it helped us, it is not the tool for every person or every dog. It also shouldn't be an insta fix.. For each 'problem' would have to be trained separately.. And even then, it may sketch out the dog and could take months... Also if the dog is ever not in your sight and gets away with chasing something you consider bad, or eating the rug or digging a hole, you've undone some of the training.
If you ever you it to reinforce come, you may get a clingy dog.. Dog chases squirrel dog gets stimed, dog runs to you wanting the ouch to cease.. May find that staying near you fixes the problem of being stimed..
The two dogs systems I've seen are mainly sold for hunt training.. Otherwise you'd need 2 collars, 2 controllers, and have them coded so you don't stim the wrong dog.
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The two dogs systems I've seen are mainly sold for hunt training.. Otherwise you'd need 2 collars, 2 controllers, and have them coded so you don't stim the wrong dog.
Aside from the above which is true I would like to give an alternative point of view to the rest
If you ever you it to reinforce come, you may get a clingy dog.. Dog chases squirrel dog gets stimed, dog runs to you wanting the ouch to cease.. May find that staying near you fixes the problem of being stimed..
Of the 16 dogs in the class 10 of them are on remote collars being taught to go away and come as comanded, no ouching just stim, its like DR ho muscle stimulation, no screeaching or clingy dogs there.http://sitmeanssit.com/ does remote collar training and you can watch vidoes of lots of happy well adjusted dogs.
there are way too many things to work on to use an e collar. It becomes confusing to train even one dog on multiple issues if it's with an e collar.
Its actually confusing to teh dog to treat just one issue with the e collar according to conventional wisdom, it is a correction like any other.
Also if the dog is ever not in your sight and gets away with chasing something you consider bad, or eating the rug or digging a hole, you've undone some of the training.
this goes for any method of training and should not be generalized to an e collar. Which IMHO is is way more humane than the leash corrections.
Again sitmeanssit.co m you will see lots of dogs trained on remote collars. My trainer and many others are very well versed in remote collar training. Its not just to fix a bad behaviour, its a tool like any other.
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i don't know about shock collars but this is how i stop arkyd digging and doing anything else in the yard i don't like
i watch out the window when he starts to do something i sneak out the front into the next door neighbors yard (with their permission) get their garden hose and then sneak up and spray the little monster did this a few times he stopped
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honestly, IMHO, i couldn't imagine using a shock collar on my dogs. they're my BEST friends, and have been there through everything, and i can't imagine using this to "train" them not to do something. i wouldn't want to be "trained" to do my job by bosses using shock therapy, ya know? there are ways to train them without using a shock collar. have you tried them? as far as chewing on rugs and carpets, have you tried keeping them in one room with you, when they do it, take a keychain with bells, keys, whatever makes a LOT of noise and throwing it right at their feet? not at THEM, but right next to, so it scares them, then when they walk away, praise them. if the problem is when you're gone, have you tried the crate option? the keychain idea works also with digging. if they're too far out of range, use a water hose, it's also very effective. when they stop, and come to you, praise them! as for chasing the cat, try teaching them the "leave it" command. work first with treats in your hand, when they smell it say "leave it" and take it away. the next step is to leave your hand open, tell them leave it, then toss it at their feet, when they go to get it pop their leash (not hard enough to hurt them) and tell them leave it. then work to throwing a squeeky toy or something they LOVE a foot or two away, make them leave it. pop their leash if they go for it. make sure to reward them EACH time they do leave it. then go up to bringing the cat in the room (in a crate if the cat runs) and work with the leave it command, while on leash. eventually, they'll learn to "leave it" (the cat.) we did this with ALL our dogs. it works. i really would try these techniques before the shock collar. can you imagine what your best friend thinks, you've loved him / her and they've loved back, and now suddenly for no apparent reason (to them atleast) you're resorting to hurting them. i can't imagine their shock. training takes a lot of time, and effort on your part, but please consider these options before the shock collar. it will take a while (atleast a few weeks) for this to work, and also a lot of work, but it's worth the effort! sorry for the length!
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I'm glad this post came up. My husband wants to get a shock collar for Binky to keep her from barking excessively and from jumping on guests. I don't think I can do it although nothing seems to work on her jumping. The problem is that she doesn't always jump on people or doesn't always do it as soon as they come in the door. We have been trying to teach her to sit and then she gets attention. However, she will sometimes lunge up from the sit position or start jumping after she seems to have calmed down. Would such a collar be successful in curbing this problem or would it just make her afraid of guests?
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I think you have to be really, REALLY careful with shock collars. A couple of people in our neighborhood have used them and it completely ruined their dogs. In one case there was a wonderful, gigantic Mastiff who lived up the street. They use a shock collar on him to keep him home and he completely flipped out! I think the shock coming from a source he didn't understand caused him a lot of confusion and frustration. Now, instead of the sweet, gentle giant who used to amble over for a hug and a sniff, there is a dog who goes absolutely crazy barking and throwing himself around. He can't be left in the front any more because they are afraid he'll bite someone in his anxiety. They only used the shock collar for about a month....and this was the sad result.
Please try using every other training method first and use that only as the very last option..
Of course, all of this is in my humble opinion.... ;)
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have you tried asking people to do this when she starts to jump on them, just put your knee up and tell her no. this works on axle, now we just have to remind him of his manners every once in a while. after you put your knee up, make them sit stay and praise them
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have you tried asking people to do this when she starts to jump on them, just put your knee up and tell her no. this works on axle, now we just have to remind him of his manners every once in a while. after you put your knee up, make them sit stay and praise them
We have tried everything. We have asked guests to completely ignore her until she settles down-she just doesn't stop, we've done the knee thing and it just gets her going even more, like she thinks it's a game. We've reprimanded her obviously, but she doesn't care. It is making things very tense at our house whenever we have guests b/c I am afraid she's going to really hurt someone. She knocked my MIL's glasses off the other day and jumped completley up on a nine year old, almost knocking her over.
We have also put her on leash when we know people are coming but that gets all the dogs excited and they think we're going for a walk...I really do not want to use a collar but I need some kind of help!
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what about giving each person a squirt bottle with ice water, and when she approaches them, ask them to tell her to sit, and if she doesn't squirt her in the face, or if it's an automatic thing just squirt then make her sit? another idea, is if you get a halti lead, and put it on them when expecting company this way they CAN'T pull you, etc, and then make them sit stay, this way helps you keep them under control. or maybe one of the "no jump" harnesses that connect the front and back legs, and when they go to jump it pulls their back legs out?
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I will try the water bottle. However, Binky is ridiculously sensitive to smell and goes crazy if she doesn't like something. I think the citronella collar might actually be meaner than a shock for her.
It's just hard to expect guests to help in training. Most people are also excited to see the dogs and ignore what I ask them to do. Spray bottle for the guests too!
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http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441782008&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302025643&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1166204258147&itemNo=9&In=Dog&N=2025643&Ne=2
sorry i modified my last one instead of reposting ha ha
what about giving each person a squirt bottle with ice water, and when she approaches them, ask them to tell her to sit, and if she doesn't squirt her in the face, or if it's an automatic thing just squirt then make her sit? another idea, is if you get a halti lead, and put it on them when expecting company this way they CAN'T pull you, etc, and then make them sit stay, this way helps you keep them under control. or maybe one of the "no jump" harnesses that connect the front and back legs, and when they go to jump it pulls their back legs out?
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this seems like a really good idea to try for jumping!
http://www.petvideo.com/play.cgi?showId=175
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personally i think shock collars are cruel.. and i saw how mean they can make a dog.. my mom and i were nearly attacked by a gsd/husky mix whos owner used a shock collar on him all the time.. that dog was really aggressive.. anyways way i see shock collars and bark collars are pointless... well shock collars are just torture.. the bark collars... dogs have reason to bark.. what if the dog has a very good reason to bark?? but he could be scared to bark cause of the spray he gets in his face.. back on shock collars.. put one on yourself.. and shock yourself.. then you know how the dog is feeling.. you are basically electrocuting your dog.. to show this isnt all just my opinion ill show some paragraphs from www.k9magazine .com
"The concept of the device is simply horrific. Dog partakes in behaviour not to the liking of dog’s owner, owner electrocutes dog. Forgive me for thinking we lived in a society that had long since abandoned the ideals of drowning Witches or burning people at the stake but I am convinced that future generations will look back on the world who embraced the electric shock collar with a similar level of disdain.
Electric shock collars, you have caused nothing but ills since your inception. The pain and anguish you have delivered in your time could never be justified by the pro-electrocution brigade who seem to think your ability to inflict instant ‘correction’ and the possibility of such an action being capable of righting the wrongs of a dog whose behavioural misdemeanours have placed him in life’s last chance saloon, are a reasonable argument for their role in society.
How many times must we hear the argument that electric shock collars have saved the lives of dogs considered to be too unruly or too untrustworthy to co-exist in human society? Dogs with temperament problems who could be considered beyond the reach of the most successful canine behaviour experts still do not deserve to be persecuted and tortured into submission. There are humane methods to change and influence the behaviour of any living breathing creature capable of thinking, a dog especially so. Remote control electrocution simply can not be considered a humane or acceptable solution, whatever the necessity to alter behaviour. Even convicted criminals, sentenced to death in the Electric Chair are spared the long term agony of punishing electrical charges being pumped into their bodies. Death comes relatively quickly for these people and as barbaric as the act itself may be, even murderers would never be subjected to a daily electrocution until such a time as they had ‘learned their lesson.’ Why, therefore, should a dog?"
"Is it in any way conceivable that a dog, an animal born of no inherent malevolence, a creature whose psychological makeup is influenced entirely by environmental conditioning and its interaction with members of the human race, could ever commit an act worthy of this most vile and excruciatingly painful example of human cruelty as a means of justifiable reprisal?
Furthermore, that companies who profit from the sale and manufacture of a device renowned for its capability to inflict a deplorable level of brutality on its animal victims, should do so at the physical and mental expense of those dogs who have to endure the consequences of its potency all in the name of ‘more desirable behaviour’?
Is this a product that we, a supposed Nation of animal lovers should be tolerant of as it is made freely available for sale in the United Kingdom to anyone who so desires to one?
Does not the sheer concept of a device, created to inflict punishment by means of remote electrocution on an animal we refer to as ‘man’s best friend’, strike you as being barbaric, hypocritical and contradictory to everything that modern society stands for?"
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Shock collars are cruel and aversive and do nothing but damage dogs. They are not "training" - but abuse designed to scare a dog into "inaction". This is not the relationship I want with my dogs and do not encourage anyone to take this course of action.
There are so many proven, effective training methods to address the various issues cited here in this thread. The key is find a good, CPDT qualified trainer and being consistent. I have never seen a case where shock collars were necessary. Even labs, renowned for not being touch sensitive have owners who argue to me that their dogs are not adversely affected - when I show them exactly what subtle behaviors to look for and articulate what damage looks like - they ultimately see it.
Building a solid relationship based on communication requires you to show the dog what you want it to do and reward that behavior - NOT just punish every behavior you don't like. This is the equivalent of spanking a child every time she pees in her diaper. You will ultimately scare her into not showing you what she has done, or being afraid to do it at all, but you still haven't shown her what you want her to do.
The original poster mentioned a golden retriever - this is one of the most touch sensitive breeds out there and I can't imagine destroying a golden with shock abuse.
I hope you will consider counter-conditioning training and find a good CPDT trainer in your area. You can start by going to http://www.apdt.com/ and looking for CPDT certification.
Also, you can purchase several excellent books by excellent trainers that can walk you through self training. Patricia McConnell is the best trainer out there and her books are excellent: http://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com/
Good luck
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Important information to read and consider before putting a shock collar on your dog:
http://www.hollysden.com/shock-say_no.htm
http://www.advocatesforanimals.org/pdf/electricshockcollars.pdf
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We recently purchased one and I think it is a wonderful tool. I use it on a setting lower than I have tried on myself. I shocked myself on a higher setting for the full 10 seconds and it wasn't that big of a deal, it certainly didn't hurt.
As others have said the point isn't to hurt the pup , but to get their attention. How that is any more cruel than some other kind of training collar I dont know. I don't think anyone is recommending you jack it up to full power and hurt the poor dog.
Anyways.. It has proven it's worth for us in just a short amount of time.
Our problem has been with Sophie, she barks, counter surfs, steals the cats food, etc. I love her to death, but she does try our patience at times. :) It works great if you can catch them in the act, distract them with collar and divert their attention to something less undesirable.
I also use a hot-wire on the inside of our fence outside, and I know that hurts a lot more than a remote collar. I have probably been shocked more times than the dogs. But my dogs respect the fence and will not be the ones getting ran over. Tough love I guess ;)
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Forgot to mention, there are of course different methods in using it. I wouldn't want to train a dog like some field dogs are trained, where they are shocked until the perform they action the trainer is looking for.
What we have been doing is avoidance training which is a quick blip as a distraction and not a steady shock until the dog performs what you want them to.. Not sure what that is called, I am sure there is a term for it.