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Siberian Huskies => Siberian Husky Discussions => : MaroonKellBells June 06, 2005, 03:52:09 PM

: Training my Husky to not run away...
: MaroonKellBells June 06, 2005, 03:52:09 PM
Hello, all!  I'm new here, and just thought I'd see if any of you have managed to train your dogs to not run away.  I have a husky who's about a year and a half now, and he used to dart whenever he saw a door cracked open when he was a puppy.  He will now sit and stay while the door is open, but if he gets out of his collar while I'm running with him or if he escapes out of my house while a guest is opening the door, he just keeps running and won't come back...I have to hunt him down every time and carry him home, which is a big deal seeing as how I'm pretty petite.  Is there any way to train him to not run away or to at least have him come home after he leaves? :-\
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mamadog June 06, 2005, 04:00:24 PM
My girls are runners, but Finny is not. I have trained them all to not walk through a door without sitting first and wait for my "ok". Again, it doesn't always work with the girls. Finn was just so needy when we first got him that he wouldn't run cause he was too scared to be that far away from me. He is still a puppy, so we train him while walking on a leash to heal and stay with us. When I let him off leash he always stays right with us unless we say "ok" then he knows he's free to run around and do his own thing, but he still stays where we can see him. I don't know if it's the training or just his beng so needy. My girls love me to death but they will still run. I read a training book once that says if your dog runs it means they don't love you but I don't believe that for a second. I just figured some dogs run, some don't, by nature. Maybe obedience clesses would help him??

Vicki
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mastiffmommy June 06, 2005, 06:58:44 PM
I agree totally with you vicki, that a dog that runs doesnt love you, nooooo

Zeus our Siberian Husky, is pretty good, he listens to you well, and even if he is thinking of running (which you can see sometimes that he is thinking) if you in a sharp voice say stay, or sit or whatever you want him to do, he usually does it. But we got him as a rescue too, and he was needy too, so that may have something to do with it. The golden x we have, Buffy she is also a rescue has serious problem with selective hearing. We have trained her the same way we have all the other dogs, and when she wants to she is the perfect obediance dog but if she doesnt feel like listening, you could scream all your lungs could take, and she would still not even turn back and look at you. We never let her loose due to that problem, She was hit by a car before we took her in, and we had to carry her in a towel under belly for weeks, so Ill do everything in my power to not have her crash into a car again.

There are different training methods out there, clicker training, more traditional training, you can research on internet or get a couple of good books and get some tips from them. One dog I had many years ago, we trained on a very very long leash, more like a line and did the "come here" command, you have control over the dog, and the dog thinks he can do his usual selective hearing thing. Use plenty of praise and treats when he comes and if you work with the line long enough, maybe that will break him out of not listening. Good Luck

Marit
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: pndlake June 06, 2005, 06:59:11 PM
I'm with Vicky, they do not run because they don't love you - I believe it is just in their nature.  We live in the coutry so I have to be real careful because of livestock.  Niki will escape to chase squirrels but I know she won't chase livestock. But someone could take a shot at her anyway.  I have run around in the dark looking for her - but she always comes back. It scares me, I believe, because we don't have control, then we panic. It is not good but she is getting better about it as she gets older.  Did you know that Lassie in real life drove his owner crazy because he chased cars?  Lassie was really a boy.   What I am saying they, like humans, have their own quirks that we have to deal with. 
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: MaroonKellBells June 06, 2005, 07:59:19 PM
I hear a lot about "clicker training" but don't really know what it is...whatever it is, does it work?  I don't think Lennon runs away because he doesn't love me.  He's a husky from a family of sled dogs, he's supposed to run for a majority of his life.  When he runs, he gets this look in his eyes...it's like he's free and doing what he loves most.  It's almost the same look I get when I run ;D that's why I needed a breed that could run long distances.  The thing is, I've tried most training techniques on him and none have worked at all.  This clicker thing has gotten me interested, and I'm willing to give it a try.  When I talked to a dog trainer about Lennon's running habit, she said there's not much I can do and that huskies love to run.  Perhaps he'll grow out of this ??? I can only hope.  I'd be devistated if he got loose and something bad happened to him
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: GrumpyBunny June 06, 2005, 09:09:11 PM
I hear a lot about "clicker training" but don't really know what it is...whatever it is, does it work?  

OK, I will try not to bore you too much with this (speaking on this subject used to be part of my job, and I could literally give a 20-minute lecture on this subject.  No one wants that!  I already talk too much as it is.).  But, I am no expert.  I have been familiar with the principals of it for quite some time, but have only just actually started using it.  There is probably someone on here much more qualified to speak on this than me!

Here is a very thumbnail version of the history/principles.  Clicker traning is a form of training that uses positive reinforcement - basically rewarding the good stuff and ignoring the bad.  It was originally developed by dolphin trainers (mainly Karen Pryor) for working with animals that were not easy to train using "normal' methods.  

You teach the animal to associate the sound of the click with something good, usually food.  You click and treat, click and treat, until the animal  knows that the click sound means something good is coming.  Essentially, the click sound says to the animal "Yes!  You did a good job".  It becomes a way to tell them that they are doing the right thing.  If I ask Ranger to sit, and he does, I click and treat and he knows that sitting was the behavior I wanted.  If he offers a sit without being asked, and I click and treat, he thinks "Oh, ok, she likes it when I sit down.  Good things happen when I sit".  Eventually, over time the click may even come to be rewarding in and of itself.  

The other thing the click can do is act as a bridging signal - way to bridge the amount of time between the animal performing the correct behavior and the animal getting rewarded for it.  It specifys the exact instance in time that the correct thing was done, and can help you "shape" a behavior.  Let's say Ranger walks over to me, puts his paw on my knee and then lays down.   I tell him he is good and give him a treat.  What was good?  What did he just get that cookie for?  Was it coming to me?  Pawing me?  Laying down?  How does he know?  Now imagine that same sequence of behaviors, but this time I click when he lays down.  He knows that out of all those things he just did, laying down was the one I liked.  

BTW, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a click.  Dolphin trainers often use a whistle.  You can even use a word, like "good".  Most trainers prefer the click, or other non-human sound, because it is consistent and sounds the same way every time you make the sound.  The human voice carries a lot of tones and inflections, and therefore can be inconsistent to doggy ears.

So, that is my lecture.  Hope it wasn't too boring!  I recommend giving it a try.  You will probably need to so some background reading to get started, but eventually you would probably be able to shape the behavior of your dog staying by your side, or at least coming when called!
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mastiffmommy June 06, 2005, 09:19:48 PM
Hands down, that was a spot on intro to clicker grumpybunny  :D I love clicker training, the first time I really used it in training was with a Border Collie I fostered, he didnt have a good start in life and did not listen too well. The clicker worked wonders with him.

Kellbells..... I would also definately try the clicker, you have lots of different books on the subject and I am pretty sure youll love it. The Border Collie I talk about, used to be a lot like your husky, he choose not to listen, but after awhile with the clicker, he did a big change and even if he didnt become a perfect obedience dog, the family who adopted him could handle him and it gave him so much more freedom.

Good Luck and please let us know how things go

Marit
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: pndlake June 06, 2005, 09:23:42 PM
Very interesting Grumpy.  I did not know the history of clicker training, now I do. That makes sense about it beginning with dolphins.  Everytime I read books on training and, like your advice, it has to do with common sense.  There is a world of great information on this site and the price is right.  Thanks

Peggy
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: greek4 June 07, 2005, 06:19:48 AM
Rocco is a runner.  Once he busts through the open gate, over the fence, or out the open front door, there is no command that will stop him.  Getting the invisible fence has stopped him completely.
I don't know if he would run somewhere else, I haven't let him get out of my hands to find out.

When he runs he looks back to make sure I look like a big a-hole chasing him alternating between yelling at him and trying to bride him to stop.  If I stop he will run back toward him and when I reach for him he will run away.  He won't follow him home because as soon as I turn my back he takes off again. 

He has only gotten out 3 times at my house in the past year, once when my step sister left the front door open ( I don't really know what she was thinking), once when one of the neighborhood kids let him out of the fence ( I now have a chain and deadbolt on the fence) and once when he took a flying leap over the fence.  All three times I caught him two streets over the a  nasty yard with half a dozen nasty lunging doors barking at him.  My idiot wanted to play with them.

I also have a shock collar with the hand remote that I put on him when I got to my Grandmother's in the country.  He stays close with that thing on because he knows he gets one warning then a shock.  He got a couple shocks last time and ran right back to me to whine about getting hurt.  He knows where the shock comes from (the little black box in my hand) but still runs back to Mommy to make him better.

I know Rocco loves me, so that is NOT the reason he runs.  Someone had told me in the past that was his reason.  I was pretty upset about it but then I realized it was a bunch of hog wash. ;D

: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mamadog June 07, 2005, 07:12:08 AM
What's funny about my girls running off (ok, it's funny now, not so much at the time) is that if I bring out their leashes and yell "wanna go for a walk?" the will come running up to me cause they LOVE going for a walk. Maybe someday they'll figure out that they were already on a walk!!  But for now they can't resist... they come running every time.

Vicki
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: jabear June 07, 2005, 08:33:53 AM
Good Luck with the trainng. My sister-in-law has a Husky named Kobe who is always doign that too. He is almost 3, I think, and is a handful. Best wishes from Bear who has sat patiently many times while we waited and searched for Kobe.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mastiffmommy June 07, 2005, 05:07:10 PM
Jamie.... Bear is just too cool. Does he ever get crazy like most dogs or is he just a super cool guy the whole time?? Is your SIL here on this board too???

Marit
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: SaraphWolf79 June 30, 2005, 10:20:17 AM
Hiya everybody!  I'm new here, and came across this post and thought I was reading my own story there  ;)  I recently adopted my Husky Nanook from the pound about two months ago, and unfortunately, if he can get the chance to take off, he will.  He's already ran off three times now (the first time, he pushed open the gate and ran off, the second time, my roommate had the windows open and he pushed the screen right off and jumped through...the third time was just the other day, I was taking him to the vet and had his leash around my arm but somehow lost my grip and he took off)  what a funny sight, me chasing him down the road, the faster I ran to catch him, the faster he would run! 

If I could just get him to quit running, he'd be the perfect dog.  Also, is it in the breed's nature to never bark?  Mine to this day never has - only howls. 

-Carrie 
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: irinad83 June 30, 2005, 10:29:33 AM
I have a 8 month old Siberian-crazy crazy little dog, independant, a darn teenager! Its so much work to get him to listnen lol, but when he does its like Christmas for me :)
I have read alot of books on Huskies and every single one of'em says-do not trust your husky off leash, no matter how long you've had them or how good they are, its in their nature to run and run and run and..you get the point, thats what they were bred to do, and trust me I know how frusterating it is! I think the best thing is to make sure they are always in a safe area.
I have heard of some people "brave enough" to have their husky off leash when walking, but i'm told its not a good idea.
They are stubbord, too smart, but isnt it part of the fun with them :)
Anyway, I'm sorry I dont have any good advise for you, I wish I knew how to get him to listen to me too :)
Have fun with your husky!
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: GYPSY JAZMINE June 30, 2005, 10:39:10 AM
I wish i knew the answer to that!...Samson is a Pyr & Pyrs tend to expand their bounderies so we just put up a fence so now we can enjoy Samson without having to worry...That is until he realizes someday that the fence is  jumpable & climable. :-\
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: SaraphWolf79 June 30, 2005, 10:48:07 AM
Oh, it was bad!  The first time he ran off, I cried and cried and thought I'd never see him again.  I actually took off work the entire day to go looking for him to no avail.  About 4 in the afternoon, some very nice gentlemen who worked at the airport about 4 miles away called me to let me know they had found him (they were actually gonna keep him because they couldn't get ahold of the local animal shelter to get my number, it was a Saturday and they were closed until 1 in the afternoon) Thank God the guys kept trying!

The second time, I was at work and my roommate called and informed me she had opened the windows and left to run some arrands...litt le did she know how flimsy the screens were, and Nanook just pushed one of them off and jumped through.  A good sumaritan called about an hour afterwards to say he had found him up on college campus (about 3 miles south of me.)  

Not only does he have his city tags on him, so if someone finds him, they can contact the animal shelter and they have my name and number on file, but he's also now got his own tag with his name, number and address.

It makes me feel a little better knowing it's in their breed to run, so I don't feel so much like the "unwanted owner".   ;D  
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: irinad83 June 30, 2005, 10:52:46 AM
Yes tags are soooo important! My guy was playing with some doggies at the park and he lost all of his tags! I need to get them ASAP! Actually I'm going to do it today! Thank you for a good reminder!
I would never want my little one end up in a pound! (he is Microchiped, but sometimes thats not enough)
thanks again!
Enjoy your day!
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Klondike September 14, 2005, 12:41:28 PM
Please let me know if the clicker works.  Klondike runs every chance he gets.  We walk him every night and he has a large yard to run & play in but every chance he gets he is out the front door.  We were hoping he would out grow it, any chance of that???
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: RedyreRottweilers September 14, 2005, 12:45:12 PM

Forget training many of the Northern breeds "not to run away".

Certain breeds can never be trusted off lead.

Most Siberians fall into that category.

These dogs have been bred for MANY years to run long distances. They are genetically programmed to get out there and GO, and believe me, they will.

;)
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Rachel September 14, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
We taught Sophie to always sit at the door before going out.  She now knows that even if the door is open she must always sit.  This might help with him bolting out the front door.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Kermit September 14, 2005, 03:20:11 PM
I used to have two Siberian Huskies. They ran away all the time. They were master escape artists, and they would slip through an open door before you even knew it. I couldn't even count the number of times they ran from me. Unfortunately, they did not get any better about it as they got older. :'( That's how I ended up losing both of them.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Anakalia September 15, 2005, 08:15:23 AM
I just found this thread and horrible memories came rushing back to me!  Huskies are gorgeous dogs, I had one 6 yrs ago, and she was beautiful.  Redish in color one blue one brown eye.  She knew all the basic commands and a few tricks, but we could never ever train her to stay in our yard.  We even went so far as to have a fenced in area and a cable on her when she was out so she wouldn't run!  Tony, my fiance ran her a few miles everyday, but it never seemed like it was enough.  She HATED being in the house, she either looked out the window all day or sat by the door begging to go outside.  Well one day when she was out doing her "business" she snapped her cable AND jumped the fence and she was GONE!!  We never did find her and it took us a long time to get over it.  :'(   I really hope you can find something that works for you and your husky, because losing them like that and not knowing what happend to them is unbearable.

Andi
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Nicole September 15, 2005, 08:25:22 AM
Hey everyone,
 Sorry if I repeat stuff that others have said, I wanted to chime in and don't have time to read the whole thread.

Anyway....in my experience, Huskys are very very very hard to train when it comes to the running off thing. I had one, Tsunami, and he could literally open doors. Everytime we left, so did he. We had to resort to keeping him locked in a room when we left...so sad. He'd run off at any opportunity. As a matter of fact, that's how I got him...he showed up one day. When I finally found his owner (like a month later) she almost couldn't believe it was him when I called her after seeing her flier posted. She lived 20 miles away from me! But the more I got to know this dog, the more I realized that 20 miles was nothin' for him. She asked me if I wanted to keep him..and I did...anyway.. ..

I don't have any advice, just do NOT trust him off-leash. Its just a fact with these guys. Take extra precautions when leaving, work on training in the house. I saw that Grumpy suggested clicker training...or expounded on it. I'd say that working on his behavior in the house is the best thing, so that he doesn't dart out, and then never ever allow him off leash in an unfenced (HIGH FENCE) area.

Far as the barking...yeah, Huskys do this kind of howling thing. Sometimes it sounds like they're talking. Tsu NEVER barked only made those howly, talking kinda noises. I've read that this is what many Huskys do.

Good luck, and just realize that Huskys are a special breed...they are bred for intense work in extreme climates, and have TONS of endurance and are extremely independent. Its not that they don't love you, but they love the great outdoors and their sense of adventure more. They do. Its a fact.

You could just feed him alot and make him real fat....heheheh e! Maybe then he'll lose his motivation to run off!

AND BE SURE TO MICROCHIP!

There...off my soap box and off to class. See everyone in a few hours....
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew September 15, 2005, 03:34:31 PM
Hello!!

My girl is only 1/2 husky, but up until she was 4 yrs old, I could never, EVER let her off leash.  It took alot of work, patience, and perserverance before she was ever allowed off leash.  And we do have our setbacks.

After I let her do lure coursing, she thought she was allowed to chase after every squirrel.  So I had to start retraining her, and doing it a bit differently than before.

I always tell people she started off as a horrible husky puppy (b/c she was SUCH a troublemaker), and then matured into a nice german shepherd adult.  If she were a full husky, I wouldn't even dream of letting her off leash.  And although she is allowed off leash now, I rarely let her, and only in situations I can control (or at least better control).  She is never walked off leash, unless I feel there is a slim to none chance of a rabbit or squirrel being around, which is pretty rare.  And only in areas dogs are allowed off leash, which is also few and far between.

She is good at the beach, and in non-fenced dog parks.  To and from the house, and at my parent's acerage.  Other than that, she is rarely let off leash.  And I wouldn't suggest it to anyone else, either.  Especiallya full breed husky.

As for the barking/howling, Keiko does neither.  The only time she will bark is at the front door.  I used to kid people that she was mute b/c she rarely makes any kind of noise, no matter the situationi.  She obviously didn't get the husky vocal genes.  ;)
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: NoDogNow September 15, 2005, 04:31:06 PM
You might not be able to get a husky not to run, but I think you could train him to come back. 

I know several hunters who use e-collars on their dogs, so that when the dog is ranging out of voice range, they can use the collar to call the dog back to them.  The way I understand it to work is similar to clicker training, but that it works over longer distances. 

Just a thought.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: pndlake September 15, 2005, 05:32:58 PM
I know most of you have had premonitions about things about to happen and it happened to me two days ago.  I was driving down a country road headed for home alone the other day and I suddenly had a premonition that a dog was going to bolt out from the right hand side of the road.  I was doing about 60 mph and there were few other  cars on the road.  Thats right  - suddenly two dogs bolted out in front of me from the right about 1 minute after my thought.  Thank god I did not hit either one, I think because I was being extra careful and watching closely.  Then I looked again and it was MY dog Niki with a husky that I had seen running loose a few days earlier.  I was mortified.  She is in a fenced in area but in a few places our fence is in need of repair.  She never leaves the area except if nobody is home and she thinks she can get away with it.  I pulled off to the other side of the road that headed into an orange grove.  She stopped suddenly and contemplated bolting back toward the road but stopped as she really can't disobey me and she knew she was in trouble.  The husky took off into the oranges.  Niki jumped in the car and took her punishment (my yelling and making her lay in the corner).  Now she is by my side and has been kissing up for two days trying to make up for it.

It gives me the chills, people on the road all do over 60.  It is almost as if God was looking after us.  Now I will re-hotwire the fence.  I will never forget that premonition.

Peggy
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: GR8DAME September 15, 2005, 08:35:16 PM
Oh Peggy, What a close call!

I'll add my two cents, because I did everything wrong, and my dog paid the price.
When we were first in our new house we got a red doberman puppy, his name was Rambo. We took him to school, and he was wonderfully obedient, until we bred him. (We are talking 20 years ago, and I've learned alot since then, so please don't irresponsible breeder me--if I knew then what I know now it never would have been done) After that , he would take any opportunity to bolt out the door, gate or anything other than jump the fence. We assumed he was out for females.The police were notified,and every availible adult in the house would jump in the car or head out on foot to find him, and bring him home. The last time he bolted he ran headfirst into a moving car, three blcks from my house. Our local police took the call and came and got me. He died in my arms in the back of the police car on the way to the vet...
I was too stupid to not breed, too stupid to nueter him when he started to bolt after females, and too stupid to train him better not to bolt, and it will haunt me forever.
Stella
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew September 15, 2005, 08:35:29 PM
Wow, that's pretty lucky you seeing her like that and being able to get her.  I get a knot in my stomach just thinking about it.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: pndlake September 16, 2005, 12:45:13 AM
Stella, you can't blame yourself for your dog bolting.  These things happen, we do everything we can to keep it from happening but sometimes it does not just work out.  Thanks for your thoughts. 

Some dogs will bolt and some dogs are runners.  Maybe huskies are worse at it.

I cannot even imagine the basket case I would be if I had hit my dog with that car!!!!!  It would do me in. :(
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: graymeiste September 20, 2005, 03:05:20 PM
Ah, the joys of having a young husky!  My girl is getting up there in years now, and she isn't interested in running anywhere but to the food bowl or to where she's due her next nap.

That being said.....

Huskies are rather notorious as being extremely stubborn.  That's the word for it.  Stubborn.  They are a highly intelligent breed that comes from heavily pack-oriented dogs who were bred to run...and run...and run...and run.  My Laeka was nearly enough to make me consider running away myself when she was young, but over time, we've come to agreements.  Whenever possible, I actually do let her run off leash, but even then, it's only when I am RIGHT THERE to stop her from running off.

My suggestions are to get a good, long leash and a comfortable collar for her.  I'm not big into "choke chains" or the like, but opinions vary.  I do NOT suggest putting a Husky into a harness, however.  Look at the chest on that pooch.  There's a reason they are called "husky."  You're going to have a lot of pulling against the leash anyway.  Put the pup in a harness and it'll be FAR worse on you.

Take the dog out and let it walk.  When he/she starts to pull at the leash, bring him/her on back in.  Verbally call the pup back and make it return to you.  Continue this until the dog learns to not pull.  In my case, this took over a year.  She just had to learn that if she wanted to go on fun walks, she had to mind.  Remember that stubborn part...heh.  Eventually, she did learn, and over time, I began to trust her a bit more.  Eventually, she came around and even learned to stay by my side, even leash-free.  With my wife, however, she still pulls and tries to run.  It's the pack mentality showing through.  I am the Alpha to her and must be obeyed.  My wife?  Not so much. ;D  They still don't agree as to who the "lady" of the house is.

They're just stubborn.  You have to talk them into doing what you want or just keep at them until they give up.  And, as others have said, even then, you'd better keep your eyes on them.

As for the barking thing....  Don't expect to hear much of it.  Laeka barks only when startled.  That usually involves someone knocking on the door suddenly.  Otherwise, the only noise that she makes is the typical "wooo woo woo" husky warble.  That can, however, be encouraged.   She and I sing songs together that no one else in the house seems to appreciate!  Guess they just aren't music lovers.

Good luck!  They're great dogs, but man, oh man....stubbor n.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: SeraphWolf79 October 18, 2005, 08:56:43 AM
Oh wow, it's been a looooong time since I've posted on here!  So many responses to this thread since I left lol

I don't give Nanook any chances to take off anymore...I got a neat little halter thingy that goes around his chest and under his arms so he's not pulling me 80 miles an hour down the road  ;D  Plus, it's so much more comfortable for him (walking him with just a collar and leash felt like I was choking him to death, so I really needed something easier for him). 

I think he's given up on trying to get out of the yard...or maybe he's started to enjoy my company, one or the other lol.  That and the squirrels keeping him occupied.   
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: lilysmom October 18, 2005, 12:25:08 PM
Raven is a master escape artist.  She will jump up on the screen door and push the handle down to get out.  She will slip behind me when I come in the door.  She'll lean on a fence board day after day until she weakens it enough to get out.  I can't count the amount of times she has run away.  Just today she went on a 1 hour romp around the neighborhood.  She drives me crazy sometimes.  I've tried every training method with her.  She won't even come back for a treat.  She is stubborn to the extreme.  If anyone wants to volunteer to come out and train Raven to not run away, be my guest.  I give up.  I just know that about once a week, if not more I'll have to run around after her.  Oh well.  I love her anyway. :)
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: siberescuegirl November 26, 2005, 05:01:37 PM
It has nothing to do with the dog not loving you - it is in the Siberian Husky's nature to run, wander and chase. Intact males (not neutered) have an even stronger urge to wander to search for females, and if there is a female in heat nearby, he will do anything to get out and get to her.

I work with a Husky rescue organization - even with the best of training and discipline and the closest relationship, you cannot trust your Husky not to take off, especially in an area where there are small animals  they can chase (rabbits, squirrels), or traffic.  A little over a year ago, a Husky was adopted out to a home where the adopters were, as usual, educated on the necessity of being careful with doors, making sure the dog didn't get out of the house or yard off leash. The next day one of the doors to the house wasn't securely closed, he got out, and was hit and killed on the main road near the house. Even the most well-trained Husky will give in to their instincts to run at some point and just take off, so it's up to the owner to guard against this with caution and leashes. Obedience training will help, but it's never a 100% guaruntee.

Here is a quote from the Siberian Husky Club of America site (http://www.shca.org/shcahp2b.htm): "Of all the shortcomings to be found in Siberians, the most dangerous to the pet owner is their tremendous desire to RUN. But the very first dash that a puppy makes across the road could be his last run, anywhere. A Siberian, for his own protection, should be kept confined or under control at all times. If you are one of those people who think it is cruel to kennel a dog, or keep him confined in his own backyard . . . don't buy a Siberian. "
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: siberescuegirl November 26, 2005, 05:04:55 PM
Clicker training is like any other type of training - it's as good as the trainer, which is you, the owner. If you really dedicate yourself to it and you are consistent with training, then yes, it can help, but Huskies by nature are not trustworthy off leash, and for their own safety, should not be let off leash outside of a fenced area.

Karen Pryor pioneered the use of clicker training for dogs, clicker training has been used with dolphins for years. Karen wrote the book "Don't Shoot the Dog" about clicker training and she has a site: http://www.clickertraining.com/training/clicker_basics/ .
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: siberescuegirl November 26, 2005, 05:12:19 PM
"brave enough" to have their Husky off leash while walking? NO, not brave. Stupid and irresponsible. If their dog sees a squirrel, rabbit, or even just another dog he wants to go say hi to, he could take off, through traffice, and who knows how far the dog will get, or if it will get hurt or killed.

It makes me so angry that people don't do the research before they get a dog, don't learn about the breed and their characteristic s.  Then the dog is in a situation with an owner who is not prepared to property take care of them, and many Huskies are found as strays, or returned to shelters becuase the owners had no idea what they were getting into with a Husky. It's not the dog's fault.

Many Huskies very rarely bark. Instead they may make "talking" sounds, some more than others. Yes, Huskies are known for being escapte artists, so you need to make your fences and gates Husky proof. This site http://www.siberianhusky.8m.com/sibeinfo.htm#Not%20so provides some very clear facts about the Siberian Husky - escape artists, runner, digger, etc.

If you want to discuss tips for containment and Husky proofing your fence and  gates, go to www.everything husky.com and go to the forum. There is a section on Fencing and Containment where many Husky owners have submitted excellent ideas.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...myth busting
: WhiteShepherdDog November 27, 2005, 01:49:56 PM
 He will now sit and stay while the door is open, but if he gets out of his collar while I'm running with him

You are right on target with the training....yo u are establishing your leadership by controlling the resources: the door! Higher rank dogs go first!
I suggest a martingale collar that prevents the dog from slipping out--if that is the problem---it is just a nylon flat collar that snugs to prevent 'dog-on-the-loose -it is the least restrictive training aid> less restrictive than a halter---
(See sitstay.com)
no, I don't do clicker training, per se, because I actually use a smile as my marker for correct behavior!
Really, don't laugh---I train using emotion as the marker (smile) and reward is emotion in my voice (good boy!)
I actually have seen a Husky on the agility field with me who are trained using John Rogerson emotional training.... under complete off -leash control.

Yes, Huskies are distractable.. ...but you can train them...don't fall for the myth that Huskies run off anymore than Pitbulls have to be dog aggressive biters!!!!
These are behavior issues that can be addressed if you understand canine psychology.... .
A Siberian, for his own protection, should be kept confined or under control at all times.
It is difficult to train off-leash control, but not impossible even for Huskies. I would wager that a regular "Obedience" class would not be a good fit. Somebody already said the training method is only as good as the teacher and the owner implementing the program.

The key issue is: does your dog want to be with you more than anything else.....under any circumstance.
It is really just training.
Step 1- Perfect the recall. (I posted somewhere else on tips for this- can one search --I think so)
oh, I guess that is the only step.... ;)
The idea is that you are the most interesting thing to your dog---under all distractions.
It really seems to work. My 2 yr old intact male is always  sniffing everything else....his favorite pasttime, really.
But after about 9 mos training where I set him up for success on Come! and trained with tasty treats (chicken to liver to cheese, lamb, etc) in many situations... it works.
He comes even if I don't have food- cuz I always "praise my heart out" when he comes!
I smile and wave my arms and excitely tell him GOOD BOY.

In a way, it is that the dog doesn't like you! Let's face it---you are not as interesting as the distraction... ..
there is an indication of a relationship issue if your dog does not come after training it properly.
I am only sharing this since this is what my behaviorist told me---and sure enough, the better my relationship developed (me as benevolent top dog and cueing him to positive behavior)
the better off leash control developed.
It does take a good training program (immediate positive attention/reward to desired behavior) and practice, but your husky doesn't have to fulfill the breed myth any more than the myths that rotties are mean and dobies are aggressive---or german shepherds are fear biters.
The day my dog stopped his squirrel chase in mid -run when I whistled, I knew my hours of training and investment in classes had paid off.
The last day of our agility class, we were on the field -with about 20 dogs and people watching--near the end of the course, he jumped up on the table/off the other side and ran directly towards a very interesting dog in the audience.....
I really didn't think he'd come back to me---we had run the course 3 times and he was getting a little bored with it.
So I just sat down on the table and gave my finger whistle...he stopped-looked at the inticing dog- looked at me and turned towards me and returned to me full speed!
He got some chicken for that to be sure.
I would never let my dog off-lead in a dangerous situation that I did not have 100% recall success.
When I first trained him on agility field and he did run off a few times, he was put in "timeout"-- he was tied to a tree and watched me work with other dogs. He watched that and was very eager to rejoin me in the fun stuff going on.
A dog that looks to you as the leader of the pack---because you are fun and always excited to see him, and gets surprised at unexpected special treats when he complies with your cues....will be your best friend and return to you regardless of the breed. You may need to work at it longer and practice harder, but the results can be the same.
I purposely am training an intact GSD in agility to dispell the myths associated with intact dogs....
-they roam (not if you keep them in a fence or on leash! :D)
-they are aggressive (not if they are desensitized, socialized, trained etc)
------
I know I am working against nature and bred in traits, but that is teaching me so much about behaviorial training.....
My point is that although breeds have certain inbred traits, the way you treat your dog by rewarding behaviors is by far more important.
Most people fail to teach recall because they repeat the command; yell at the dog; or commit equally dumb mistakes.
If you use a negative tone to say COME to your dog or use their name in a tone that is angry--you are not going to get your dog near you....
but what do most people do when their dog finally returns to them? BAD dog...or they use an angry tone to say the dog's name when it doesn't come immediately.
It is really funny how people usually train their dogs to run away! ???
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew November 27, 2005, 04:32:25 PM
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you that a husky running away is a behavior issue.  It's not, it's an instinct issue.

I have seen the occasional off leash husky at the beach, but it is a rare occurence.  It has nothing to do with how well you train your dog.  Huskies, as has been previously stated, are born to run.  They love to run, and don't want to stop.  Rewarding them for coming back isn't as great as running, and for most, it never will be.

I don't think it has anything to do with myths or what people percieve the breed to be.  You wouldn't think of letting a greyhound or any other sighthound off leash, would you?  It's the same concept.  Most huskies have a very high prey drive.  They see a rabbit or squirrel and they are off........... .........no recall training will get them back.  They don't think like other breeds, and you can't train them like other breeds.  Even mushers, who train their dogs very well, have had problems with the dogs going off course after an animal.

Even though huskies are very pack oriented and want to be with their "pack", at the same time, alot of them are very aloof, which is why they have the reputation for being difficult to train.  I dont' think they're difficult, you just have to have a different mindset when training them.  You are working with a breed that for the most part could care less what you want them to do.  They'll do it for the treat, and then forget all about the training the next time you want them to do it.  They are independent thinkers, which is a constant challenge in the training department.

Like I said, I have seen huskies off leash before, but they are a very small percentage of the breed as a whole.  Even Keiko, who I've mentioned is only 1/2 husky, cannot be off leash most of the time, and she is extremely obediant and well trained.  If there is a squirrel or rabbit around, and I don't tell her to "leave it" in the split second she stops before lunging....... .........forge t it, she's gone. Unlike some huskies though, she will eventually come back.  I just don't like to take that risk, so she is only allowed off leash in places I can completely control.  Even then I have to be very watchful, b/c she likes to wander, sometimes up to 50 ft away.  Again its in her nature, same with liking to pull.  It's been a year now since working on leash manners, and she is almost at a heel.  And I wouldn't have even worked on that had I not wanted to get her into therapy work.

Gunther, my great dane, is the complete opposite.  I don't have to worry about him going anywhere, as he's glued to my side whether on or off leash.

I just don't want anyone to get their hopes up on off leash training for huskies.  It would be a very rare thing for one to be good off leash all the time.  And unless they're good off leash all the time, why take the risk?
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Anky November 27, 2005, 04:45:52 PM
I agree with Zoo Crew.  Husky nature is to be aloof and independant.  I'm not saying that huskies don't make great pets.  Please don't think that.  But what she said about their running is totally right.  A Husky is bred to work.  It's born into them, drives them wild if they can't.  Why do you think so many Huskies end up in rescue?  Someone wants a cool looking dog, leaves them to suffer to boredom all day, dog gets destructive or runs off.  They're a roaming dog.  They don't need human companionship.  

My Hobo is a Chinook.  It's a sledding dog that was created because the founder of the breed wanted a dog that not only was his transportation, but a friend and companion as well.  The Nordic breeds didn't offer that, and so the Chinook was born.

It's nothing against the dog.  It's in their genes that they can't be trusted off lead.  The owner of my training facility was a breeder of top Bloodhounds.  All her bloodhounds had multiple titles including agility and obedience.  Her one dog had an OTCH (Second highest title in obedience competition)  However she can't trust him off lead in certain situations.  Has nothing to do with his training.  Just in his blood.  
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: WhiteShepherdDog November 27, 2005, 04:46:58 PM
Most people believe myths like pitbulls are dog aggressive... and huskies run away.
Pit bulls are bred to kill other dogs. It's in their genes.
Rhodesian Ridgebacks kill cats (Bred to hunt lions)

Get it?
These are genetic traits- but of course these traits are modified by your actions/environment.

The point that I am making is that as humans, we can use our knowledge to modify behavior that is instinctual. Many people do.
Let me use this other analogy of training versus instinct.
A dog's instinct is to pee where it smells pee.
Yet, amazingly we can housetrain dogs after they have pee'd on our carpet.
(oh, no- is pee a verboten word?)
Does it make it harder to teach your dog to pee outside when they smell it in the carpet?
Yes.

I've had this discussion with leading behaviorists---- so that is my background.

I'm not trying to change what anyone believes---I am trying to point out that breed myths are not accurate.
What are some breed myths you would dispute?

Believe what you want.

I want Santa to bring me good cheer.

Check this link out.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/training1.htm

BTW- just because a dog earns titles does not mean it has a relationship with the owner like I define it!
I have worked with handlers that can get dogs to perform in a ring, but that dog has no relationship with that human like I mean.
Any dog owner should examine- Why doesn't my dog want to be with me?
All breeds are pack animals and have the instinct to follow the lead dog.
(Especially huskies!!!)
Dog social structure is very clear.
If your dog does not pay attention to you, you are not the pack leader.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew November 27, 2005, 05:24:26 PM
Most people believe myths like pitbulls are dog aggressive... and huskies run away.
Pit bulls are bred to kill other dogs. It's in their genes.
Rhodesian Ridgebacks kill cats (Bred to hunt lions)

Pit bulls were never bred to kill other dogs.  They were bred to bait bulls.  It has never been in their genes to do so.  I cannot speak for RR as I have never owned one, but a lion is a big difference from a house cat, and they have not been bred to hunt lions in a very long time.

Huskies, on the other hand, are still bred to run.  They continue to be used for what they were originally bred to do.  They are also one of the closest breeds genetically to the wolf.  Have you ever tried training a wolf?  Believe it or not, I have worked somewhat with wolves (not timber or gray wolves, but red wolves) and they are a huge challenge.  Your dog as a husky won't respect you until you've earned it's respect.  That is just how it is.  And even if it respects you, that does not mean it will listen to you 100% of the time.  Like I said before, they are independent thinkers, they will do what suits them.  If it is what you wanted them to do, then great.  If not, they don't really care.

Again, I come back to the sighthounds.  It would be incredibly stupid to let one off leash in an open field.  You would never see it again.  It is not so different than the husky.

You used an example of teaching them not to pee in the house.  It is not the same concept behind it.  Peeing is behavioral, not instinctual.  What would be similar would be to train an intact male not to copulate with an in heat female.  If you can do that, then maybe you can teach a husky not to run off.  That is the same kind of instinct that drives them to run.

The only way you could get most huskies not to run off would be to start selectively breeding the ones that can be trained to be off leash.  Maybe in 20 yrs, you would have a breed that looks like a husky, but will be completely obediant.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Anky November 27, 2005, 05:55:57 PM
BTW- just because a dog earns titles does not mean it has a relationship with the owner like I define it!
I have worked with handlers that can get dogs to perform in a ring, but that dog has no relationship with that human like I mean.
Any dog owner should examine- Why doesn't my dog want to be with me?
All breeds are pack animals and have the instinct to follow the lead dog.
(Especially huskies!!!)
Dog social structure is very clear.
If your dog does not pay attention to you, you are not the pack leader.


I feel that with you not knowing the relationship of the owner handler and dog you have no right to make such statements (For the record this woman bottle fed the puppy from 3 days old due to his mother's death from C Section complications).  One of the instructors at my training center is world renowned herding trainer Maurice MacGregor, and he admire's Celete's dogs and her relationship with them.  Obedience isn't "performed".  I don't even understand that coorelation.

Personally I feel that the whole "Dogs follow the pack" thing is antiquated thinking.  What people need to take into consideration is that all dogs are individuals.  You ever heard of the lone wolf?  He's not a pack animal.  The statement "Why doesn't my dog want to be with me?" is simple.  Dogs are like children.  Even the most obedient are curious and driven by their senses that are more in tuned with their surroundings then we could ever dream to be.  Plus like Zoo Crew said, unlike most of today's working dogs, Huskies are still used for the purpose they were created for.  My Dane once upon a time was a boar hunting dog.  If he saw a wild pig now he'd probably pee his invisible pants.  Huskies are still consistently bred to be tireless, self sufficient, working dogs.  The self sufficient is often what keeps them alive and why they don't strive for human contact.  Why they're such "Flight Risks". 
: Fact or Fiction?
: WhiteShepherdDog November 28, 2005, 09:47:07 AM
The fun thing about discussion boards is that we can share opinions, vent, rant and rave, and feel like part of the pack.
What I offer to the discussion is science or facts.
I know that there are some people who would like to learn from a diverse perspective and facts.
For over 30 years I have taught my students to distinguish between fact and opinion.
Behaviorism is based on years of scientific research.
Not that many people are interested in reading that research- but Karen Overall is very accessible to most people:
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00370.htm

I have implemented behaviorist principles to modify human and canine behaviors for many years.
“Instinctual” behaviors can be modified through application of a behavior modification program that is based on positive reward or operant conditioning….there is more to it than that.
I would not expect anyone would be able to apply a successful behavior modification (training) program based on postings from a bulletin board!
I do suggest you find a behaviorist- not just a competition “obedience” instructor --or at least look for another trainer who has got experience in ethology.


I  reread my postings and I sure don’t see that I claimed a novice Husky owner would be able to train a 100% recall based on postings on a discussion board.
What I did do is reiterate what Karen Overall and other animal behaviorists have found in the science----myths about breeds are not productive to perpetuate.
I did give suggestions for first steps in basic training.
What canine behavior research has stated that dogs don't have a social structure based on rank?
If you can cite that research---please do-it must be very new. Ranking in canine social structure has been confirmed by the research.
What we understand is that leadership roles fluctuate and are flexible...but ranking still exists.

For to have any dog without spending the time and effort on establishing yourself as leader (training) is selling yourself short to having a lifelong companion.
I don’t know what you mean by training, but I mean developing a relationship so my dog seeks me out- not in a clingy, fearful way- but in a “Hey, let’s go have some fun” way.

A dog who is secure in its rank--is playful; thinks on its own, will engage with you in play;

To have a dog gaze in your eyes and ask, “What’s next?” is an  attainable for anyone who can devote the time to learn with the right teacher.

I have participated in this discussion to help educate one more dog lover…not based on a personal opinion or myth, but based on a body of knowledge that has been successful by many professionals and dog owners.
I don’t think the average dog owner will be able to modify many instinctual behaviors with out the help of a professional behaviorist!
Too many dog lovers fail to housebreak their dogs and leave them in the backyard their entire lives!

I would hope that what is important at BPO is education--- to protect all breeds and to help new dog owners to be successful in raising a dog that can keep for its entire life.
My point is that myths are counter productive to that end.
I don't care to argue each of the points that I feel are opinions - based on anecdotal evidence--
But I will continue to share what is fact.
 :o
Just trying to get my point across without diddling with details.

My point is that myths are counter productive to that end.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Anky November 28, 2005, 12:19:33 PM
There is so much I want to say to this thread but to do so I would be disrespecting BPO.

All I will say is that your opinions aren't fact anymore than anyone else's is.  Just because it's worked for you for 30 years doesn't make it fact.  I look at what I've witnessed, what I've read and what I have gleaned from research from multiple sources.  THAT fact is what I base my "opinions" on. 

Also, I would appreciate you abstaining from downing a trainer you know nothing about.  It isn't wise to do.  There is much more I want to say to this as well but it wouldn't be polite.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew November 28, 2005, 12:26:31 PM
Well, I feel we are going round and round in circles, so I will make it brief.

What I have stated is personal opinion, but it is also fact.  I tend to believe the multitudes of trainers and behaviorists rather than the lone one.  I have worked and trained many different breeds and species, from dogs and cats, to horses, monkeys and the more exotic.

I dont' think I claimed one would get all their info off a discussion board for 100% recall training, either.

One should always research each avenue of training, for what works for one individual, will not work for all.  For what works for one breed or species, it cannot be said the same will work for all others.

I do agree that the human has to be the alpha above the dog.  I don't dispute that.  But pack dynamics are different for each breed, and you have to treat them differently.   Being alpha will in most breeds gain you the respect and devotion you need, but not in all breeds.

I guess maybe you should own a northern breed before deciding that all of them can be trained to recall.  I'm not saying none of them can recall, but it will be a very small percentage, and not a representation of the whole.
: successful champs
: WhiteShepherdDog November 28, 2005, 05:45:35 PM
Taken from an agility board from those who successfully train off- leash control:

As one competitor who runs a Northern breed cross, I can attest
first hand to what happens with these comments. "Not the breed for
agility" type. So people with a hard to motivate dogs go to an over-
the-top dog, and have just as many problems, but in the opposite
direction. Now the instructor tells them to start learning to catch
up with their dog - again demotivating to the handler.
Have fun with your first agility dog - no matter what it may be.
Learn, learn, learn, what works for your dog.

---------
- Laura wrote...
I run Siberians in Agility, as a student my biggest issue was
having a challenging dog that was not food motivated, toy motivated and did
not care to be touched or petted and being told by 3 instructors to place, get
rid of or retire this dog because she would never do well in agility. Rather than
get a new dog I got a new instructor, and new methods to deal with my
personal challenge.
She, the dog, made me a better trainer and a better instructor by
forcing me to develop a larger, varied training "tool chest."
----
 I bred and showed Siberians for 18 years (Obedience -- titled 8 Sibes!),
Breed, tracking, sledding, weight pull), and at the end of that time
purchased a BC to do obedience with. Never made it to obedience, but stumbled
into agility.
 There are certainly instructors who get tunnel vision -- and seem
to focus on BCs, Corgis, Shelties... but sometimes the less seen breeds are
the most fun!
 And you are absolutely right, a Siberian will FORCE you to develop
lots of alternate training methods, and keep you on your toes.
As a student with an "off" breed it is my job to know what my dogs can or can't take-a Siberian will run for hours forward, but ask them to repeat the same sequence over and over again and you can forget it. I have to bewilling to tell an instructor that may be as good as I can get and I would like to stop while we are ahead, thanks.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: ZooCrew November 28, 2005, 06:03:39 PM
Is that off leash control just for agility?  Or off leash control for everywhere else too?

I would have no problems at all with an agility course with my husky mix female.  In fact, if I ever have the time, I plan on starting her in agility.  However, off leash outside the ring, is a different story.
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Anky November 28, 2005, 06:10:01 PM
I never said anything about agility.  Agility is in a controlled environment.  Besides, I thought anyone can get a dog to perfom in a ring?

These are comments from people who's LIVES are all about HUSKIES.  I'd tend to go with what they say......


From the Siberian Husky Club of America

Of all the shortcomings to be found in Siberians, the most dangerous to the pet owner is their tremendous desire to RUN. But the very first dash that a puppy makes across the road could be his last run, anywhere. A Siberian, for his own protection, should be kept confined or under control at all times. If you are one of those people who think it is cruel to kennel a dog, or keep him confined in his own backyard . . . don't buy a Siberian.

-------
From a breeder of Husky's for 11 years

Dear Paul,
Firstly the easy question,your husky will probably NEVER BE GOOD AT HEEL.Remember the husky was bred to pull sleds and that is what this breed does best PULL.So it would be a really big ask to change this.Perhaps you do not know but it is a recomended practice that YOU NEVER EVER LET A HUSKY OFF LEAD EVER,she will do just what you have described not listen to you at all off lead.She will chase things and in general just not come when called.Even obedience training stands a good chance of failing to teach your dog to do this.So you will just have to accept that this is really part of the breed,huskies that heel and recall off lead do exist but they are very few and far between.I personally do not trust mine to do this at all.

---------

From the Husky Club of Great Britain

Question: Is it ok to run free

This is generally a big NO-NO in husky-world....purely for the reason that their instinct is to run and if they spot something more interesting than you then nine times out of ten they will run.. and run.. and run!!!!
But, I do know of huskies that are let off to run and they do return to their owners, it's all down to you and your dog, and whether you are prepared to take that risk...

Author: Liz McPherson



This is a very emotive subject for some people. Especially those breeders that have had to comfort someone who has lost a sibe due to it running off and not returning (or coming back in a carrier bag) - especially when they have tried to drum it home that they sibes should not be let off the lead.
For us - the price of getting it wrong is not worth the price of finding out.
Sibes don't understand roads and cars - the only thing I can guarantee is that ours definitely understand sheep and freedom - and are very agile when they see the chance of that opportunity.

Author: Guy Redwood


We also did the 'my husky is different' thing with our first pup.
Despite being told not to, we let her off the lead and yes, she would come back on call each and every time we let her off in a country park...then one day, she was about 7 months old, she spotted a cyclist at the top of a distant hill and she was off like a shot.
By the time Sam got to the top of the hill there was no sign of her.
It turns out she kept running right onto the road and was happily trotting along the roadside!
We were lucky a passing motorist realised what she was and picked her up, he happened to work in a cattery so had somewhere to keep her and let us know....she's never been off lead since, apart from the time she jumped over the back seat of the car, or the time she slipped her collar...but then thats another story. All i can say is that we were frantic with worry for hours.
I think my second girl would be OK off lead but trust me, i'm not taking the risk to find out!

Author: Brian Duncan


I have always had mixed views on this topic. The bottom line for me is that NO DOG OF ANY BREED is 100% safe off lead all the time!
I have lost count of the times that our dogs have been attacked while training by "safe" off-lead breeds. I have lost count of the times I have seen owners of such breeds plaintively asking "have you seen my collie/dobe/spaniel/rottie/labrador....." in the huge park near our house, any every motorist must have had a heart-stopping moment as a dog ran across the road in front of you.
Having said that, I think it is crucial that Siberian owners train their dogs in basic obedience - in particular "down stays" and "recalls" so that if that terrible day does dawn and your dog does a runner, at least you have an outside chance of getting it back. This isn't false optimism, it's insurance.
One of the dogs we bred lives with her owner who has always had border collies and has always trained her dogs for obedience. When she got her Siberian from us four years ago she treated it in exactly the same way. This dog has now worked its way through all the levels of obedience and is starting to beat the BC's at agility. Now her dog, like any Siberian, like any dog, is not 100% safe off lead, but if she did manage to slip her lead in a dangerous situation, at least this particular owner would have a fighting chance of getting her back as a result of her training.
The key for me is simple - by all means let your Siberians off-lead - but only in an area which is 100% safe and which poses no risk of escape. We are really lucky - about a mile from where we live there is a large park completely surrounded by 10ft brick walls and with only one gate. We can let ours off lead there with no problems - one of us guards the gate and the other watches the dogs.

Author: Mick Brent


Fellow Husky Lovers,

Although very upsetting for us, if what follows makes just one owner STOP and THINK again before letting their beautiful Siberian OFF THE LEAD to RUN FREE once more knowing the dangers; then it's got to be well worth it.

Your treasured Siberian Husky is probably not far away frrom you at the moment; your HAPPY, HEALTHY, LIVELY bundle of FUN who means the absolute world to you. I'm right? Yes?

Well take another long hard look at him or her and try to imagine just what it would be like to have to go and collect your Sibes 'STILL VERY BEAUTIFUL' but 'NO LONGER LIVELY' body from the roadside!!!!
The life that he or she once enjoyed so much; snatched away in a matter of seconds!! No, not nice eh!!, and no it wasn't either; such a horrible image to remain with anyone, as it will with us ........ FOREVER!!

Kira escaped: she was NOT LET OFF HER LEAD TO RUN FREE !!!
and the tragic outcome meant the loss of our friend, our pet, our working team leader and our much loved, very special Siberian 'girl'.
A nightmare which takes you to h*ll and back we can assure you, the guilt, the hurt, the why's, the if only's, you name it - WHY PUT YOURSELF THROUGH IT UNNECESSARILY THAT'S ALL WE ASK?? !!!!

So next time your hand reaches for the clip of your Siberian's lead .... STOP .... THINK .... PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T DO IT .... Don't knowingly let it happen, don't RISK LOSING A PRECIOUS PART OF YOUR LIFE ... WHY ?? .... YOU'LL NEVER FORGIVE YOURSELF .......... EVER !!

Author: Andrea & Steve Taylor


To be perfectly honest, i think that at the end of the day your dogs are your own, and what you do with them is your choice, but what does make me laugh is that even with extremely compelling evidence that letting your husky run free is a bad idea there are still people who are of the opinion that they know better, this is a shame because it wont be these people who end up under a car or shot for worrying sheep!!!

It will be the dogs who end up suffering, all because someone who was relativly new to the breed thought they could do what everyone else would love too, and let the dogs of the lead.

Its at this point its a bit late to say ooopps sorry, you were right.

If you want a dog you can let of the lead a husky is not for you and the sooner people realise this the less of these topics we will have about these amazing people who have the ability to give a husky road sense,and stop its natural instincts to chase livestock.
Author: Dathan Trent


I repeatedly asked my knumbskull husband to please stop letting our 3yr old girl off the lead.It's fine he said there's not a chance of her running off in an open field ! which is exactly what she did nearly 3 miles from home.Crossing and traversing busy main roads in rush hour untill she luckily made her way home pushed open the back gate and calmly waited for my breathless hubby to arrive.Needles s to say it's a lesson he has now taken on board.
Author: Abbie Watts

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From Jalerran Huskies (Breeder of top Champion Huskies)

1. Wanderer - This breed should never be trusted off-lead. They will run and they won't come back when you call them. Don't be fooled into thinking that you can train them to stay in your yard. The many people who have tried and no longer have their dogs can attest to the risk associated with this impossible task.

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Excerpt from "Everything Husky"

They are independent (obedient only when they feel it's appropriate). Huskies were bred to think for themselves and actively disobey if they perceived the situation to be dangerous.
They can't be trusted off-leash (ever!). Huskies were bred to do one thing very well - Run! Take them off lead anywhere and they take off for Canada!

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I have over 96,000 hits on Google that say the same thing.  Please.  I really don't wish to argue about this.  These are facts from people who know the breed inside and out.  I trust them over a handful of owners who've been lucky with their dogs.

: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: Nicole November 29, 2005, 02:11:36 AM
Well...I'd just like to throw in some not as educated or experienced commentary here.

I don't think that it is unfair to any breed to acknowledge their history...or in the case of Huskies their current jobs. It isn't unfair to a Pitbull to acknowledge his tendencies and drives. Its responsible. And along those same lines, its not unfair to acknowledge that Huskies can and do run off way more than most dogs. (Sight and scent hounds excepted, of course) Why, WSD would you not want to acknowledge these traits? Why would you deny them? That is why we "pure" breed dogs! To maintain particular (presumptuously desirable) traits! Are we all kidding ourselves that particular breeds have certain traits? I don't think so.

Not trying to rehash old stuff or start arguments here. I'm just not sure why you would try to deny the traits that have been bred into a breed for thousands of years...
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: siberescuegirl November 29, 2005, 08:03:37 PM
Anky, I agree with you 100%. The bigges risk to the Siberian Husky is the novice who comes along and says "Well, I met one person once who walked their Husky off leash and it was fine, so I'm going to walk my Husky off leash."

There are always exceptions to the rule. However - the general instinct of the Siberian Husky is to be an independent thinker, and to chase things that run. It would be extremely risky to the dog, and extremely irresponsible of the owner, to take such a chance.

The rescue group I volunteer is always full. Why? Because there are more Huskies than almost any other breed either found as strays (because they ran off or escaped from a yard) or turned in because they "don't listen and run away all the time". DUH! That's what Huskies do! I became extremely creative in reinforcing my parents' split rail fence and the chicken wire that went around the inside. I helped my dad put in new chicken wire all the way around, and we buried it 6 inches deep - my Husky, thank goodness, is not a digger or climber - he just looks for holes, weak spots or gaps that he can push through.

But if I hadn't read about the breed beforehand, I wouldn't have known I needed to always make sure that the gates were securely latched, and I wouldn't have been so proactive about making sure that the fence was secure.  I would not have known that it's a breed characteristic, and I might have thought he was just a "bad dog" and tried to find a new home for him. People who aren't prepared and don't know what they're getting into, 90 percent of the time, end up wanting to "get rid of" or re-home their Huskies.  Hence the shelters and rescues that are overflowing with them.


We've heard and seen horror stories about dogs that jumped out of cars in parking lots or at gas stations and were hit and injured or killed. One dog lost a leg this way, because someone left the car door open at a gas station and he saw a squirrel.

About a year ago a Husky was adopted out to a family on a house near a busy road. Well, that alone can't disqualify them (or we'd never adopt any dogs out!) and we educated them THOROUGHLY on security, doors, leashes, gates, etc.

The day after he was adopted he got out of the house (bolted out of the door after someone) and was hit and killed.

Please - just be a responsible owner, be aware of the breed characteristic s, and do what you need to do to protect your dog. I'm amazed at how many Husky owners I run into that stop and ask why they don't listen, why the always run off, etc. When I start talking about breed characteristic s they have no idea. It just amazes me.


: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: siberescuegirl December 02, 2005, 12:36:33 AM
Yes, and the point that you have failed to grasp is that the statement that Huskies cannot be trusted off leash and are prone to running off is not a myth. It's a breed instinct, just like pulling a sled and loving snow and cold weather. It's in their genes.

And even very experienced Husky owners who have trained, owned, and fostered many Huskies would never ever take the chance of letting their dogs off leash outside of a fenced area, simply because they know the risks and they care too much about their dog's safety. Not because they aren't capapble of figuring out how to train their dog to be reliable on recall.

Spreading a myth is unproductive. Ignoring the truth can leads to lost, injured and dead Huskies, which is why Husky rescues are always at maximum capacity.

By the way, have you ever owned a Husky?
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: mishka April 09, 2006, 04:19:37 AM
I would never let my sibes run loose ,i run my youngest next to my bike in a trscking harness attached to a springer device. I used to race my sibes but they are too old now. I let my young sibe run loose in a tennis court in a park near where i live on the way home when out on a walk .she chases my collie when she runs after her ball.but has no way to escape!!
: Re: Training my Husky to not run away...
: LuvmyMal April 09, 2006, 08:17:32 AM
With my experience with Northern Breeds I have not had on that could be trusted off leash. We have taken Tonka offleash only while hiking with her her dogpack on and she does good, but there is a leash attached to her dogpack just in case. I had a husky that would escape and be gone for hours hunting, running, digging, you name it she was doing it...good thing I lived in the country and no one really minded until she ate livestock. With my 2 mals, Tonka has escaped our yard 4 times before we mal proofed it when she was gone she was chasing something (rabbit, squirrell, bird) and only stopped for an akita that is 2 streets down, he scared the mess out of her. Nala, well we have not tried anything with that wild woman. I know people who have let theirs off leash and they do fine, but they are very stubborn and have their own sense of timing.