Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Food Forum => Food Discussion & Information => : RottiMommyAL June 08, 2005, 06:09:47 PM
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:D
Being new to the diet (not BARF) and new to BPO, I thought I would give a shout out to any other raw feeders!
Hi Ya'll!
What raw sites do you go to?
I like the yahoo group discussion board Raw Feeding.
Anyone else??
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Wow, sure is quiet in here.
Hello?oooooooooooo? :D
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I believe there are other RAW feeders on BPO...Or maybe BARF feeders...I get the two mixed up...What is the difference?..Will you tell me?
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Just Love your avatar rottimommy :)
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I tried raw for a few months but my dogs had other health issues and couldn't handle the raw food. They both had to have antibiotics to take care of the intestinal problems they got from food. I buy raw food with out bone and cook it for my big boy and that seems to working out fine.
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Hi There!
I feed raw... well, mostly... kinda.
I have a Greyhound which are notorious for being finicky eaters.
I began feeding cooked meat and veg with kibble and cooked pasta or rice because thats what he had been previously fed (he's an adopted ex-racer) but heard that cooked meat wasn't AS GOOD as raw. I'd been feeding him all of his bones raw and chicken necks raw for breakfast so then it was only a matter of slowly introducing him to the new diet so his tummy didn't get upset.
NOW I feed him:
Two raw chicken necks and a cup of high quality kibble for breakfast and to keep him going during the day. (2 bits of toast on the weekends as a treat!)
For dinner he gets raw mince meat (chicken, lamb, kangaroo or beef), a teaspoon of cod liver oil for his coat, a cup of kibble and a cup of cooked chopped veggies. No pasta or rice.
After dinner he gets a raw bone to chew until bed time (usually a rib)
He does get other bits and pieces as treats but these are VERY minimal.
Sultanas
Nuts
Raw egg
Whatever I'm eating basically!
Things I avoid like the plague:
Cooked egg
Cooked bones
Chocolate
Too much fat
Milk (though, sometimes he steals a lick of coffee or milk if I leave a glass unattended! Rrrr!)
He's pretty good and won't eat anything he finds on walks OR eat any poo, which I hear some dogs do!
Thats about it.
He's a very spoilt boy.
Imogen
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B.A.R.F. has stood for Bones and raw food. Though there are a lot of people who are calling it "Biologically Appropriate Raw Food " now. So a raw diet and barf diet are the same thing.
The diet generally means you do not feed commercial dog food. No kibble, no canned. Raw bone, raw meat make up the bulk of the diet and it's suplimented with ground veggies.
As you can see by Imogens post though there is a full spectrum between totally raw and totally commercial. There are people on both sides that say it HAS to be all of one, none of the other but I think (as does Imogen) that whatever works for you and your dog is right.
Finns breeder will void his health contract if he is fed any barf foods. But when I get another IW I will use a breeder without the restriction and probably use a combo of both raw and kibble. At the time that I got Finn I had never heard of the barf diet so I didn't care that I couldn't feed it to him. Now I would not buy from a breeder who decided for me what I could feed my dog. (but I have a few other issues with said breeder as well)
Vicki
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Raw feeding is a species appropriate diet. Where the dogs digestive system is working to it's fullest potential therefore their other systems (circulatory, immune, nervous.....) are working to their fullest potential. A chemically processed diet of kibble is un-natural. The high quanity of carbs and fillers could be harmful. What could be more natural then a raw diet? Right?
When the meat is cooked it loses some of the benefical components. When bones are cooked they become brittle and splinter.
Canids do not need vegetables in their diets. If greens are needed we all have nice big yards for them to chow on.
The thinking is how a dog in the wild would eat. Yes, our dogs are domesticated but their digestive systems have not changed with their domestication.
It took me several months to get over the kibble/raw myths. I am amazed by the results. I am so thankful for the internet.
I was hoping there were more raw feeders on the boards, seeing we all have big dogs.
I was paying over $100 every 3 weeks on kibble. Now I spend about $80 a month on raw meat, bones and organs.
It did take the dogs a while to get used to their new diets. There were your normal trials and tribulations but we prevailed.
I highly recommend to anyone who is interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
http://www.rawfeddogs.net/
The best is to give great big chunks of meat/meaty bones/healthy organs where the dog has to work at eating. The dog not only has to work at eating it but it exhausts them mentally to try and figure out how to eat it, ie: where to hold it, where to bite it...ect.
Sorry if I rambled. We started raw feeding 3 months ago and I am so happy with the results of this diet I just want to share it with everyone.
(and maybe even convert a few :P)
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I think I am making the switch to raw. I'm not sure how long it will take, but I am really excited about it. I absolutely love going to the store and buying meaty bones for my dogs! And they really do have to work to eat, and honestly I have never seen Zoot so happy as he is when he's finished eating a meaty bone. He just sits there smiling, I mean a big huge ridiculous doggie grin, like he is fully satiated. After he eats a bowl of kibble all he does is look around the kitchen for more food. But the bones wear him out and make him so happy.
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I have always fed raw whenever I can. I mix all sorts of people food along with dry food but I think they like raw best. We are lucky in that we have a butcher close to us that actually still cuts meat for you. (his steaks are to die for). Anyway for his good customers, he keeps big beef bones in packets and gives them away for the dogs. I am a big hit when I bring these home. Niki has a special spot under the tree that she can chew for hours and smile as she goes.
I know that there are a lot of people who spend a great deal of money one particular brand and they will probably throw rocks at me or at least look down their noses. I buy inexpensive dog food and add to each meal a variety of leftovers as well as different flavors of canned food. I know there are a lot of horrible meat parts and more in inexpensive food but a wild dog eats pretty disgusting stuff too including rotting flesh. I have watched their reactions to food for many years and am convinced that they, like us, like a variety in their diet. Yes, while watching them, I see they get their greens by occasiionally chewing on grass, then spitting it up. I do feed raw whenever I can - this is what their stomachs were made for. I have to say that I feed just like Imogen except for one particular difference. KANGAROO - wow my dog would love it if I could get it.
I ate it once in a restaurant - tastes like beef, not chicken.
Peggy
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I have always fed raw whenever I can. I mix all sorts of people food along with dry food but I think they like raw best. We are lucky in that we have a butcher close to us that actually still cuts meat for you. (his steaks are to die for). Anyway for his good customers, he keeps big beef bones in packets and gives them away for the dogs. I am a big hit when I bring these home. Niki has a special spot under the tree that she can chew for hours and smile as she goes.
I know that there are a lot of people who spend a great deal of money one particular brand and they will probably throw rocks at me or at least look down their noses. I buy inexpensive dog food and add to each meal a variety of leftovers as well as different flavors of canned food. I know there are a lot of horrible meat parts and more in inexpensive food but a wild dog eats pretty disgusting stuff too including rotting flesh. I have watched their reactions to food for many years and am convinced that they, like us, like a variety in their diet. Yes, while watching them, I see they get their greens by occasiionally chewing on grass, then spitting it up. I do feed raw whenever I can - this is what their stomachs were made for. I have to say that I feed just like Imogen except for one particular difference. KANGAROO - wow my dog would love it if I could get it.
I ate it once in a restaurant - tastes like beef, not chicken.
Peggy
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Raw feeder here...no veggies just raw meaty bones and organ meat...I will never feed kibble...My guy has been on it since 12 weeks and is now almost 8 months old...
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Benefits of Raw Diet
Here are some great benefits of a raw, natural diet:
White teeth, fresh breath
Poop Patrol
Yard Stains
Hot Spots
Water Consumption
Doggie Gas
Bloat Prevention? Possibly.
Great Health
White, white teeth and no more doggie breath
Here is one source of bacteria you should worry about-the ones that make their home in the tartar on your dogs teeth that is caused by soluble carbohydrates in a kibble diet. These bacteria and the toxins they produce, can spread throughout the body, invading organs, specifically the heart and kidneys. BARF fed pets have beautiful teeth and breath possibly due to the enzymes in raw food and/or the lack of carbohydrates in the diet. Many people believe it is the chewing action that produces white teeth, but you can get this same benefit when feeding your pet raw meaty bones that have been ground.
Since raw fed dogs do not have tartar, they are not plagued with these bacteria and toxins. And, dogs that were previously fed a kibble diet, can have clean, white teeth sometimes in as little as 2-4 weeks! (This is an observation from people, on the e-lists I belong to, that have taken in rescue dogs and switched them to a raw diet.) I may never have to take Roxy in for a teeth cleaning!
Warning
If your dog suddenly develops bad breath be sure to check the dog's mouth to determine whether a bone has been lodged between his/her teeth. If not, a blood test may be in order to determine if there are any kidney malfunctions. Bad breath is one of the outward signs of kidney or heart disease.
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Poop patrol becomes an adventure!
This subject comes up frequently. A dog on a raw diet has fewer and smaller stools. It also has very little smell. Within a few hours, in most cases, the stool will turn white and eventually turn to powder (if you leave it there!) The whiteness is from excess natural calcium. What isn't needed is simply flushed out. Smaller stools indicate the dog is using the food efficiently.
Stools are a good indication of what is going on in your dogs' body. If it's too soft-add more raw meaty bones. Too hard-add more veggies. Most BARFers watch for undigested material in order to determine if probiotics should be added to the diet. When too much vitamin C has been given, diarrhea occurs. Just back off slowly until the stool becomes firm again. The dog itself seems to know best.
Stools are harder which helps the anal glands express as they should. I should never have to take Roxy to the vet to have her anal glands expressed! I am very grateful for that one!
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Yard stains
Raw fed dogs produce fewer yard stains. A dog being fed a poor quality kibble can have highly concentrated urine that burns the lawn. My yard has some, but not near the amount that my kibble fed (previous) dogs produced. Adding alfalfa to the dog's diet may decrease yard stains even further.
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Hot spots
If your dog suffers from hot spots, a raw diet may be the answer. It may be best to eliminate the hot spots by proper nutrition, rather than pouring on (or in) more medications.
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Water consumption
This is not really a benefit, but I just wanted to mention that a raw fed dog does not consume much water! The dog is provided with so much moisture via the raw diet, the need to drink copious amounts of water is eliminated. My kibble fed dogs had an almost unquenchable thirst and drank a lot of water. Roxy drinks approximately one cup of filtered water per day.
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Doggie gas (the quickest way to clear a room!)
The odorous gas that some dogs have may be caused by a digestive system that is not functioning properly. When starting your dog on a raw diet, the gas problem can escalate to the point that you want to give up! But, when the flora of the intestines adjusts to the new diet, it virtually goes away. Roxy can be stinky occasionally, but not very often.
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Bloat Prevention? Possibly! Bloat seems to be less common in raw fed dogs. Please read up on PREVENTION OF BLOAT AND TORSION IN DOGS. Also, here's some extensive information on bloat: Purdue University
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Great Health
I did not save this one for the end because it is less important or not proven. It is the most important, but only proven by us that feed a raw diet. We see the difference but don't have scientific evidence to prove it. Food trials have not been performed because there is no (monetary) benefit in it for anyone. If dog food companies were to provide the food trials, it would result in lower sales for their product. If veterinarians were to provide the food trials, it would result in fewer sick dogs and less money for the doctor. So, for this reason, most will not even suggest you feed your pet a healthy, natural, raw diet.
Those of us that feed a raw, natural diet could not possibly put dogs through a trial of our own. This would mean that we would have to feed some dogs a very poor diet and we would not want to put ANY dog through that!
Dog food companies have gone to great lengths to convince humans that it is right to feed our dogs a food that consists of cooked cereal and rendered meat meals. We, ourselves, are told to eat many raw fruits and vegetables every day. Raw being the key to good health because vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and enzymes are present in their natural form. Why would it be different for our dogs? Their bodies were designed to eat and thrive on raw food. Cereal and cooking have no place in a dog's diet.
SOURCE: http://www.4loveofdog.com/benefits.htm
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I am just starting to feed raw...actually making the switch this week. So we will see how it goes. Iam excited to get the dogs off the kibble. I am soon getting a Dane pup who is 3rd generation raw fed. So I am getting the Poms and the cats started so we will all be on the same page as the new pup.
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I feed raw to my dogs and have been for over 4 years now. One of my breeds is the Bernese Mtn. Dog and every Berner owner I know feeds raw given the significant health issues in this breed. My favorite aspect of this diet is being in the park every night, and my dogs, the biggest dogs, poop these little cocker spaniel size poops while all of the processed kibble dogs are pooping gigantic poops of waste - it is one of my best testaments to digestability and optimal benefit of live enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and minerals.
It may be useful for some to think about digestability - it is in this order from most digestible to least digestible: !) raw fresh food 2) lightly cooked fresh food 3) cooked or frozen food 4) processed food - although extruded and baked makes a slight difference.
There are no clinical studies that show dogs live LONGER - there is abundant evidence however that their quality of life is better. I have seen firsthand dogs completely turned around once given fresh raw food from a lifetime of processed food.
Much has already been said so I wont repeat it - except that dogs are not people and have significantly shorter digestive tracts - they are not nearly as susceptible to bacteria growths as humans. Mine eat dirt, lick their butts, and drink dirty water with no issue for a reason. I could never do that and not get sick. With that said, it doesn't mean a dog cant get a bacterial overgrowth or the like. Bad meat, something else they ate, or actually most bacteria overgrowth cases I have seen have been kibble fed dogs. Kibble has a lot of bacteria in it too, and depending on how long that bag has been sitting on the shelf before you bought it or how well you seal the bag every day, has a lot to do with freshness there too.
Last thing - your doctor, if you go to one, is telling you to eat more fresh raw fruits and vegetables for optimal health - that is for enzymes, amino acids etc - because only fresh raw food is in tact and live and can provide optimal nutrition. Same goes for dogs and cats (and every living species actually) - just that they are carnoviores and require animal protein.
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I'm going to do this the lazy way.
Will you guys walk me through this from the store to the bowl of feeding raw foods?
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I am just starting to feed raw...actually making the switch this week. So we will see how it goes. Iam excited to get the dogs off the kibble. I am soon getting a Dane pup who is 3rd generation raw fed. So I am getting the Poms and the cats started so we will all be on the same page as the new pup.
Brigid, I am just wondering how your puppers are doing on the RAW diet...I am interested in knowing about the transition...T Y!
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I have been an exclusively raw feeder since the early 90s.
Zero kibble here, except for dog biscuit treats.
What method of raw feeding will you be following?
Do you have any books?
There are some great raw feeding lists at Yahoo too, that have lots of helpful people on them.
:D
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My biggest issue is that I don't ever cook for myself how will I force myself to do it for the dogs. I just eat frozen pizza, veggies, or milk.
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I could never prepare someone sufficiently to start feeding raw with a quick message or two on this site - so if you're interested in learning more I highly recommend some outstanding reading by some excellent experts. To start, everyone should have Kymythy Schultz' "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" - this is a great and short book to get you started. Also, you should have Dr. Martin Goldstein's "Nature of Animal Healing". If you buy nothing else, these books would get you going.
Also, there are many great websites to help in specific areas: Naturalrearing .com, belovedbulldog s.com, healinghope.ne t, and many more.
As already mentioned here, there are also great Yahoo discussion groups that can be invaluable to getting questions answered as they arise. Many very experienced raw feeders and vets are on these to help. Most purebreeds have a raw group on Yahoo but I have to caution you to find one that is knowledgeable - for instance, I have two breeds in my home and belong to both raw groups - one is the most experienced and knowledgeable group you will ever find, and the other couldn't be less informed and therefore is ill equipped to help newbies. There is a rawfeeding group on Yahoo that is not breed specific.
The effort involved is as much as you want to make it - it can be very very easy once you learn how to shop. Many I know feed pre-packaged raw - purchased raw dog food just like your kibble. Great brands are bravorawdiet.c om and halshans.com Putting this is your dog's bowl with a few extras/supplements isn't exactly involved. I feed bravo sometimes, but generally prepare my own from scratch. This entails raw meaty bones which I just hand out - or raw muscle meat and organ meat, with ground veggies and berries. It takes me 10 minutes to prepare their meals from scratch including grinding the veggies. If this is too much, see above for easier route.
I hope people will read up on this to learn more about what optimal nutrition and health is in our pets. Just as we constantly hear/read doctors telling us to "eat plenty of raw fruits and vegetables" for our own health, it is also true for every living mammal. Only raw food has live enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and minerals in tact. So many are feeding this way that dog food manufacturers and the vets who are loyal to them are pretty upset about it - time will test this out however.
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Gyps - well my female POm, Irie, would rather starve then eat raw. She is my alpha and does not do a thing unless she wants too. I have been breaking her in really really slow.... still part kibble part raw. My male Pom, Gunner, loves it..doesn't want a thing to do with kibble. And he looks the best I have ever seen...coat looks great. He use to have runny eyes from allergies - all gone... I am very impressed! The cats think I am nuts!!!!! My new pup - Willow, who I am getting this week - only knows raw food. Has never been on kibble
Timmie
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Yep 4 Rawfed GSDS and 1 cat here. Again, not barf....no veggies....no kibble...just raw meaty bones & organs. Everyone is happy and healthy.
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
I don't try to convert the kibble users, as I myself sat on the fence for years.....rese arching. But my dogs and I are so glad I switched! IF I were still feeding kibble though, I'd go with Innova EVO, as that's the closest thing to raw that I found. No surprise...it's expensive. I'd rather spend the money on human grade meat.Â
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GSD Mom - Glad to know there is another raw feeder....(there are a few of us here) I actually feed closer to Barf... My pups love the veggies... But if I were going to go back to kibble..I agree I would go with the Innova Evo. I also do not try and convert...ever yone does what they need to for their dogs. But I am glad we switched...My Poms look better...actua lly have a waist line...My dane I can't really tell any difference because she was weaned to raw.
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I feed both of my Danes RAW, have been for over a year now.
My younger guy had chronic diarrhea, rashes, Pano and HOD as a pup, I attribute all of this to problems with kibble. Anyone interested in hearing more specifics on Mickey's story let me know, I don't want to go on and on here.
We switched to RAW, within weeks rashes were gone, PANO and HOD went into remission, and solid poops for the first time ever.
I strongly believe in the immune boosting benefits of RAW.
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I would love to hear more about Mickey's story. Sugar Bear (14 mo. Great Pyrenees) has chronic diarrhea he just finished a round of Albon. He still has very soft stool. He had Pano for about 6 months, it is better now but I do know it can come and go.
Lisa
I feed both of my Danes RAW, have been for over a year now.
My younger guy had chronic diarrhea, rashes, Pano and HOD as a pup, I attribute all of this to problems with kibble. Anyone interested in hearing more specifics on Mickey's story let me know, I don't want to go on and on here.Â
We switched to RAW, within weeks rashes were gone, PANO and HOD went into remission, and solid poops for the first time ever.
I strongly believe in the immune boosting benefits of RAW.
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All raw here since the early 90s.
Little vaccination as well.
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Lisa, it makes me so sad to hear about your baby, I know how horrible it can be to see your pup in pain and not be able to fix it.Â
When I first got Mickey he was switched over from what the breeder fed to Chicken Soup, my other dane Java was on CS. Mick did ok the first few weeks, I attributed the diarrhea to switching his food. A few weeks later the rashes started showing up, and it took me a while to narrow them down to his food as opposed to environment (cleaning solutions, shampoo, grass.....). I figured he had a meat allergy, so I tried several other brands and formula of kibble, including the so-called hypoallergenic formulas such as wellness fish and potato.
Mick just wouldn't get better. Then at 7 months he had his first hit with pano and HOD, it was horrible! He would sit and just tremble because he was in so much pain. Luckily buffered aspirin worked really well with him, and I would give those if I noticed he was hurting a lot. Just before his first bout though, I had decided to switch him to raw and see if that would help with the rashes and diarrhea. Amazingly, within days of switching, Mick had the first SOLID poop I'd ever seen him have! The rashes were also disappearing, so I was hopeful that raw was the right path with him.
Of course, I took Mick to the vet during his first episode, and the vet chastised me for putting him on a raw diet, "a dog this big will NEVER get the nutrition he needs from a raw diet" is what he told me. That is the first and only time I questioned my decision to go raw. I put him back on kibble because I was afraid for him, I knew HOD could be fatal, I didn't want to lose my little Mickey. Well, his poop went right back to mush, and the redness started appearing in his arm pits again. Boy did I struggle with this! Common sense told me that if Mickey had diarrhea, he absolutely was NOT absorbing the nutrients he needed to be healthy. BUT, this vet told me it was wrong! That's when I threw caution to the wind and went back to raw, I couldn't stand to see my poor baby suffer through all of these problems, raw was at least taking away SOME of his discomfort, and that was better than nothing.
I can honestly tell you that I believe switching Mick to raw saved his live. 3 weeks after his first bout we had a second, but it was MINOR compared to the first. Weeks later, and not a single reoccurance, I knew I had done the right thing. Mickey was healthier and happier than I had ever seen him, I swear I get tears in my eyes just thinking about it now. For us, the RAW diet is a godsend.
I urge you to give it a try. Start your baby on chicken, just chicken for three weeks. I started with chicken quarters, they are good sized and force the pup to chew the bones well. If you see negative results, go back to kibble, no harm done. Hopefully, in 3-4 weeks you will begin to see improvement in his digestive system. I would not add supplements or new meat for those first 3-4 weeks though, you don't want that to interfere with results.
The cool thing is, Mickey was cured of HOD and Pano without the assistance of any vet perscribed medications. I don't think this would have happened if I wouldn't have switched his diet.
Please let me know if you have any other questions, I would be thrilled to help!
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Thank you so much for the story. I have one other friend that has gone raw with her girl and the chronic diarrhea stopped within days. I am feeding Sugar Bear Nature's Recipe easy to digest chicken, rice, and barley. I have tried Nutro, Solid Gold, Pro Plan, and Chicken Soup. He also loves to have chicken jerky as a treat. Do you know if there is a blood test to know if they have meat or gain allergy. I ask this because when I add plain rice to his kibble it the stool is just as soft if not softer. We also have a lake on the property and they play and drink from it. I am going to have the water tested this week. Sugar Bear is also great at finding dead fish to eat, I take them away as soon as I see him but I am sure he finishes off a few. I have started keeping a log of when it is the worst so that maybe I can pin down what is going on. We live on 15ac. so at times it is hard to find the stool and make sure that it is his and not Dixie's. He hates to potty when someone is watching, so it is hard to keep track of the daily output.Â
As far as his Pano it is getting much better. I hope that we will not have to deal with that again. It has helped tons him having Dixie to run around and play with. It is still hard for him to get up sometimes after a long nap. It does not sould like Sugar Bears pano was as bad as Mick. It just kills me when I can not fix a pain for my babies. I know I over baby them but I lost my 9 1/2 year old pyr girl last summer. I guess taking care of my new babies is the way I deal with that. I know now that the time we are given with our babies is so very short we need to make the most of each and every day. I think it is my job to make sure they have the best life possible.
Lisa
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Lisa, in my experience it's GRAINS that cause the dirrhea, that's why it's worse when you give him rice.
If you don't want to go RAW, have you tried Innova EVO?
Also, Slippery Elm works wonders with diarrhea!
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That is what I was thinking about the grain the day I noticed that the plain rice did not help. I will check out the Innova EVO. The more I read the more I am thinking I need to give the RAW a try.
Lisa
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I am also a raw feeder. I made the switch about 4 years ago and the yahoo list "rawfeeding" was instrumental in helping me get over the "hangups" I had, due to all the misinformation from Vets, dog food companies etc.
Speaking of which. A friends older Lab got sick the other night. The symptoms were pacing and panting really hard. He also had a 104 temp. My friend took him into the Vet, who kept him for several days and did all sorts of tests, xrays etc. (and put him on huge doses of anti-biotics) and never did find out exactly what was wrong with him. Personally, it sounded like pancreatitis (sp) to me and I know they tended to not only over feed him, but give him things I wouldn't give my dogs in large amounts, such as french fries!
Anyway, as per the Vets instructions, they now have the dog on Science Diet dog food and streamed vegetables, because the Vet told them our dogs need the five food groups just as we do! ::)
I am also wondering why the steamed veggies if Science Diet is supposed to be such a great dog food? ???
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Lisa, in my experience it's GRAINS that cause the dirrhea, that's why it's worse when you give him rice.
If you don't want to go RAW, have you tried Innova EVO?
Also, Slippery Elm works wonders with diarrhea!
I am using the Slippery Elm now and it has made a difference in only two days. So what is it telling me is wrong if the Slippery Elm is making it better.
Lisa
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Innova Evo is the only commercial dog food I will feed my dogs. I try to feed exclusively raw, but my Aussie has a torn ACL I am treating conservatively, so she gets daily supplements and it's easier, (esp. the powdered raw gelatin) to mix it in a little dog food and warm water.
Even with the Evo however, there are ingredients in it that I don't think are necessary or good to give to dogs. The more ingredients, the more chance for allergies and stomach upsets IMO. I prefer to feed my dogs their veg's/fruit myself, rather than have it in the kibble, because that way I can regulate how much they get and if they don't like something or it doesn't agree with them, I don't feed it.
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moonlitcroatia, very good info on the benefits of raw feeding!
hugo grew up on a mixture of raw and kibble. over a year ago i switched him to completely raw diet and he has eaten this way ever since. you are right about the less poop, less water consumption (which is great when you have a dog with a huge full beard!), better teeth, better breath, etc. i have recently switched my 2 little poodles over to not quite raw, but more of a natural diet. they no longer eat kibble but instead eat cooked meat, veggies and whole grains with bonemeal and other supplements added. hugo does great on the raw meat, but they didnt handle it so well. hugo gets raw chicken (various parts from day to day), raw beef and bones, eggs (usually cooked though), pork and other meats. he also gets, a couple of times a week, steamed veggie and fruti mash with brown rice or oats (just as a filler) and supplements. he has done great on this!
shellie and hugo~
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Off topic here, but I have to say that Hugo is beautiful!!!!
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thank you mommyofschnauz ers! i took a look at your gs and i must say what a looker!
shellie and hugo~
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Hi Shellie! I'm Melissa. lol Thanks. And on the topic of feeding raw... I have started adding some raw to her kibble and she seems to really love it and does well with it, as does my Mini. I am going to be gradually making the switch to raw. Any pointers?
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I've tried all sorts in the past. I fed my shar-pei raw for a whole year, but they actually did much better on a senior recipe kibble - better digestion, shinier coats and more energy. I think some breeds do better than others on lots of meat. I've found that the oriental breeds I've had don't do as well on lots of meat or high protein food and are often intolerant of beef, wheat, maize and soya.
My Tibetan Mastiff puppy was awful on the two premium large breed puppy foods we tried. Diahorrea and scurfy skin. As a breed, they don't do well on too much protein even as puppies. So at 4 months I put him on a 21% protein lamb and rice kibble available here in England called Superdog Sensitive - it's mid range in price but all it contains is lamb, rice, beet pulp and vitamins. I saw how well my friend's 12 shar-pei looked on it and gave it a go. Flynn's coat and digestion improved within a week and he's never looked back.
As well as his kibble (always soaked in warm water), he gets a spoonful of yogurt in the morning and a chicken wing, lamb ribs, tinned sardines, high quality 'wet' dog food, fresh meat or whatever with it in the evening. My shar-pei has the same minus the chicken as she's allergic and anything bony as it doesn't agree with her. They both look great on it and my shar-pei looks better than she has for a while despite being in the early stages of kidney failure. She used to be on a senior diet, but they changed the recipe and she suddenly lost weight and had no energy - I thought it was the end of the line, but she's like a new dog on this food. I know she should really be on a kidney diet, but I'd rather her enjoy her food for whatever time she has left and she's blooming at the moment.
I think it's horses for courses. Many dogs do well on BARF, many do well on kibble and there's a whole spectrum in between. the trick is finding what works best for your dogs. I think a bit of raw food several times a week is beneficial and especially raw meaty bones as it help keep their teeth clean.
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i didnt really realize until i started doing research on types of kibble, various brands, formulas, etc that there was so much junk that alot of dogfood companies put into the kibble. believe it or not there are euthanized pets, roadkill, restaraunt grease that has turned rancid, plastic bags, styrofoam, flea collars, preservatives and other chemicals, on and on in pet food! my rott/shep mix roxy died of lymphoma a couple of years ago. after that i really started looking into the quality of kibble because i had heard that alot of dogs are getting different types of cancers these days possibly linked to low quality ingredients in dog food. i then began to experiement with feeding hugo raw although he did eat kibble mostly as a pup. just over a year ago i thought why not just make the complete switch over to raw. honestly i could feed it cheaper than i could feed him a high quality premium brand.
things i have learned while feeding him the raw--
dont feed rmb (raw meaty bones) with kibble. this can (and did with him) give the dog diarhea. dogs usually get diarhea to some degree the first few days or weeks on switching to raw anyway because their body is detoxing to all the things in kibble. raw meat is almost 100% digestable, there is very little waste. whereas kibble there is alot of indigestable things such as peanut hulls, beet pulp, that just take up space in the food and do not provide any or very little nutrient. if you feed raw and kibble try to put 8 hours in between the 2. kibble and raw digest completely different. kibble takes longer than raw as a result diarhea can occur. alot of times people will feed raw and kibble together with no problem, each dog will be different. hugo did get diarhea when fed both at the same time.
do not cook the bones. cooked bones splinter. look at it this way...raw chicken meat is tough and the bones are soft, cooking will soften the meat and make the bones hard and brittle. so only raw bones!
adult dogs need between 2 and 4% of their body weight of food each day. puppies will require more. there is never an exact science to feeding raw. each day will be different and each dog will be different. dont let this scare you.
raw feeding to me is very much worth the small amount of effort it requires. while reaching in a bag is always more convenient than preparing the food yourself, just think of the benefits and also think of how much healthier your dog will be and could live longer too!
i can feed hugo for much cheaper on raw than buying a premium food. i just base his diet around meat. he gets about 1.5-2 lbs of meat a day. this is something like a lb of ground beef and 4 legs or a package of gizzard/hearts, and a couple legs and maybe 8 chicken necks. just vary it. you can check around your area for wholesale meat distributors. we have one here and i can get 40 of chicken necks for 40 cents/lb. last time i got 80 lbs of chicken thighs for $20. you do have to be able to store and freeze 80 lbs of meat, but hey we all have large breeds here and we know how they can eat LOL! just alternate raw meat of various kinds-canned tuna or sardines (any fish really), pork, lamb, chicken, turkey, rabbit, deer (and you can even get exotic and get ostrich, bison, ox tail etc). a couple of times a week give blended-to-a-pulp (i steam or boil) veggies such as greens, green beans, squash, bananas, carrots, peas, (anything but onions and raisins or grapes). you can added brown rice or oats just to use as a filler, add a multi vitamin and some oils such as olive and canola and feed a couple of lbs of this mush.
there are tons of books out there, but honestly if you do a little research you can come up with a great raw feeding plan that suits your dogs.
the problem i faced feeding hugo kibble was that they were not consistant. each bag would be a different color, different odor and he would get the runs all the time. since feeding him raw he only has had diarhea a couple of times and this was when he would scarf up another dogs kibble when i would take him to work with me. i had tried all sorts of kibble with him. nutro, diamond, pedigree, beneful, proplan, science diet, eukanuba...the y are coming out with alot more that i would feel comfortable feeding him if i decided to go back to kibble, but he has done so good on raw i just dont want to chance it.
shellie and hugo~
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Well, here I am (OP) 7 monthes later, after starting to feed RAW. I have to say I will NEVER feed ki**le again. I have raised dogs all my life and this diet is the best I have ever witnessed.
We did find that feeding everyday was too much. Like a dog in the wild they don't eat everyday. So, we feed every 2-3 days. The size of the pork picnics that we give them sustain them for those 3 days, believe me! The stool situation is amazing, health= perfect, teeth are gleeming, no funny smells from anywhere (mouth, butt, ears ect).
I know I was on the fence for sometime before converting and I am so glad we did.
Thanks to all who replied with all their helpful info and stories.
Here's to more healthy dogs! :D
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thanks for all the info. I have been trying to decide what to do. My Mini has had really irritated skin most of her life. I always have to buy special soapless shampoo for her or she will just bite at her skin and chew off all of her hair. After reading the good results that people have had feeding raw, I am leaning toward making the change. Thanks again!
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melissa, it could very well be that your mini has a food allergy to an ingredient(s) in kibble. alot and i mean ALOT of dogs are allergic to corn, wheat and soy. of course dogs can have an allergy to ANYTHING, just like people. but corn especially has been in dog food for years and years and dogs can and have developed allergies to it. when my customers dogs start getting itchy feet and smelly ears, you can pretty much bet they are experiencing a food allergy. i tell them to fix the problem you have to start from within side the dog-i.e what the dog eats.
RottiMommyAL, interesting about the every 2-3 days feeds. never really thought of doing it that way, but you are right about dogs in the wild not eating daily. i have noticed that sometimes hugo is ravenous and other days not so hungry. i just feed a little more or less depending on that.
i have to say that he is not crazy about turkey and any kind of liver. he just spits it out. all of the giants at his kennel do not like liver of any kind. even my little poodles are picky about it.
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After reading about the raw feedings etc, that is what I was thinking. So how should I go about changing their diets? Feed some raw in between meals and cut back on the amount of kibble while their systems adjust? Or do I... feed kibble at their morning feeding and raw for the evening feeding? Or... do I just make the switch to raw?
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You switch immediately. You don't mix kibble and raw. That confuses the digestive system.
If you go to the Yahoo groups at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
You can find all the answers to all your questions. That is where I started. Also try http://www.rawfeddogs.net/index.php
You will notice a difference in your dog in as soon as 4 days.
First you find out how much to feed your dog by how much they weigh. 2-3% of your dogs adult weight is what you should be feeding the dog. You start with one type of meat and feed that for 2 weeks. Then you slowly add variety, ie; other meats, organs RMB (raw meaty bones). You want to try for a balance of meat and bone. As you will find out too much meat or organ menas diarehia and too much bone means constipation. So be careful with the balance.
Chicken quarters are usually a good balance of meat and bone. But a dog needs variety, just like what they would eat in the wild. Poultry is not a big part of a wild dogs diet so you have to keep different kinds of meat around. We find pork picnics are perfect for our Rottweilers. Always try and keep the meat in the natural form. Don't cut/grind the meat or bone. Let the animal work for his meal. It will not only tire them mentally but physically also. You should consider giving a fish selection too. I get canned salmon and makerel. Once in awhile I put a smorgesbord together and give them the canned fish, some organs, some eggs and some bones. Just to balance everything out. Whole turkey necks are super good for bone if your dog gets diarehia.
Don't be afraid. Know your doing the right thing for your pets. Reach out for help if you need it and learn as much as you can.
Please feel free to contact me for whatever reason.
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I have a question, I was talking to my vet about the raw diet and she said it was very messy And I have really young kids. Is this true? She also breeds Swiss Mountain dogs and said her friend feed raw who also breeds the same breed and she doesn't and there is no difference in the dogs. What do youall think about this? Thanks for you answers.
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I also feed raw, just outside, that takes care of the mess. I've been feeding raw for almost 2 years. I went back to commercial about 6 months ago for about 4 weeks thinking I would save some money as we were in a tight spot financially, I actually spent more because of vet bills to take care of hot-spots caused by the food. I learned my lesson.
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As was mentioned in this post earlier, veterinarian schools have their nutrition classes sponsered by major pet food corporations. So most vets have a bias against raw feeding. So, don't be surprised if your vet tries to discourage you from raw feeding.
I had to switch to a homeopathic vet in order to get some peace and quiet when on a vet visit.
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melissa, rottimommyal is right on the money here. but that works for her dogs. you may need to fine tune this to suit your dogs and your household. but she has given excellent advice here. also about vets not recommending raw feedings-its true they really dont. and like was mentioned they promote science diet (as well as other dogfood brands) so why should they recommend anything but what they are trying to sell. also if you dog is healthier, then chances are you wont need their services as often. i have to apologize to any vets reading the board if you recommend raw feeding or are open minded about it. i know alot of the vets i have experienced in my area do not like raw feeding. even my own vet is not a big fan of it. i have sorta learned not to discuss raw diets with vets because all i get is moans and groans from them. Â
as far as it being messy, as long as you are clean about it and make sure you disinfect any area that the dog might drag some meat to and of course you will want to wipe down any utensils you use to prepare the food, just like you would when you cook for your family. i feed hugo either outside or on a towel in the kitche right out of his food bowl. i dont feed anything like tripe, brain, stomach, or whole carcass, etc (just cant bring myself to do that) so i somewhat avoid the really icky messy raw food items.
if you know some of the ingredients in dog food you would think that was even worse than feeding raw meat. you wouldnt even want to stick your hand down in a bag of dog food!!!Â
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Thanks for all of the answers. I have never asked my vet about raw feedings. Personally, I believe that if my dogs are healthy and happy and are cared for properly, then it's no one's business what I feed them. But that's just my opinion. As soon as Dazy finishes the little bit of kibble that we have, we will make the switch to raw. We have slate kitchen floors, so with a towel under her bowl, it shouldn't be too difficult to clean up the mess. Hopefully! lol I'm not squeemish about handling raw meats. I don't think I could do brains and such, but "regular" meats, bones, etc I think I'll be fine with.
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I have another question if you guys don't mind, my hubby thinks that by eating raw meat the dogs will get the bite instict to kick in. He is also wondering how it is cheaper than buying the regular dog food? I already give my dogs yogart and cattage cheese and sometime will cook some extra meat for the dogs. I was wondering what the differance with raw and cooked. and how do you know how much to feed them? I guess that was more than 1 question. Thanks for any answers.
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I feed raw too!!! I love it. I did go to a really great dry dog food and found my dogs don't do as well and the poops were much bigger. So back to raw we went. All I can say is that if i can do it anyone can. I feen more of a BARF diet then strictly meat. So my dogs get vegies and fruits also. I also kind of a mixed veggie ground meat thing in the morning. To this I add supplements. At night we feed Meat and meaty bones. I do fast them 1 day a week so their systems an purge. I feed Willow outside or in her crat. The mojos eat in the kitchen and I just run a wet mop around after they are finished. I save money also feeding raw. I buy chicken in 40-65 lbs bulk. Other meat I watch sales. My dogs eat lamb, chicken, pork, beef and fish. The veggies I can get a a weekly farmers market we have here. It is all pretty easy. It does seem overwhelming a first - I remember that
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I have a question for the raw feeders. I have been feeding kibble, but every now and then I love to bring home some chicken or beef for the pack. The other night I bought some whole chicken legs for Nigel and Zoot. Nigel pretty much swallowed his whole. It was incredible. I couldn't believe he got it down. Is that bad? He threw up a while later and then (this is gross) all the dogs shared what he threw up. I know "in the wild" wolves will throw up and then eat it again, but he didn't even TRY to chew it the first time around! Zoot on the other hand tore off pieces and ate his a little bit at a time. What do you guys think? Is it bad for him to swallow it whole? He just gets really excited about meat and really "wolfs it down"...
I absolutely want to switch to raw. I guess I need to get a kitchen scale to measure amounts, right?
Thank you all SO MUCH for your help on this topic. I am so inspired and I guess I have been putting it off because I am a wimp!!!
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I have another question if you guys don't mind, my hubby thinks that by eating raw meat the dogs will get the bite instict to kick in. "bite instinct" isnt brought out by eating food, raw or kibble. if you dog is a biter then it wont be made worse by eating raw. biting is a behaviour that has nothing to do with what type of food the dog eats. i know what you are saying, has to do with the "old wives tale" that if a dog tastes blood it will kill (i.e chickens, goats, other livestock, etc). this is just that-an old wives tale.    He is also wondering how it is cheaper than buying the regular dog food? it is cheaper for me to feed raw than to buy premium dog food. it takes a little shopping around and doing some homework (hitting the sales at the supermarkets, buying meat in large quantities, etc). of course it wouldnt be cheaper than buying some off brand junk dog food - ol roy, trailblazer, pedigree, kibbles n bits, many other brands.  i can feed hugo for $20-40 a month raw whereas it would be at least $40 or more a month if i bought premium kibble (canidae, eukanuba, iams, wellness many others). it does take a little planning and willingness to prepare the food vs just scooping out a bowl full of kibble.    I already give my dogs yogart and cattage cheese and sometime will cook some extra meat for the dogs. I was wondering what the differance with raw and cooked. raw-all meats are feed uncooked also all veggies are uncooked and blended to a mush consistency. also raw incororates RMB-raw meaty bones, which is a key food when feeding raw.   cooked would be meats, veggies, grains you prepare like you would cook for your family. NEVER FEED COOKED BONES HOWEVER! i actually do a combo of raw and cooked. hugo eats mostly raw meat (and bones) the biggest part of the time. a couple of days a week, in addition to the rmb, he gets a mush that consists of brown rice, oats, cooked veggies, and supplements. and how do you know how much to feed them? adult dogs need 2%-4% of their total body weight a day. there is no exact science, you will just have to wing it and see what works best for your dog. basically if he is active feed the higher amount, if he is not active go for the lower amount. you can tell by how well he maintains weight whether he needs + or - .  I guess that was more than 1 question. Thanks for any answers.
basically do some internet searches and find out all the info you can on feeding this way. there are many opinions out there on this. you will have to see what works for you and your dog. what works for me and hugo may not be practical for you. each dog is different. you may find out that you want to use different veggies, or you may want to leave the grains out all together. alot of people do just meat-no other ingredients.  Â
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I feed raw too!!! I love it. I did go to a really great dry dog food and found my dogs don't do as well and the poops were much bigger. So back to raw we went. All I can say is that if i can do it anyone can. I feen more of a BARF diet then strictly meat. So my dogs get vegies and fruits also. I also kind of a mixed veggie ground meat thing in the morning. To this I add supplements. At night we feed Meat and meaty bones. I do fast them 1 day a week so their systems an purge. I feed Willow outside or in her crat. The mojos eat in the kitchen and I just run a wet mop around after they are finished. I save money also feeding raw. I buy chicken in 40-65 lbs bulk. Other meat I watch sales. My dogs eat lamb, chicken, pork, beef and fish. The veggies I can get a a weekly farmers market we have here. It is all pretty easy. It does seem overwhelming a first - I remember that
you sound like me. i really dont follow any kind of set formula or recipe. whatever i have in the freezer or fridge-fruit or veggie-wise. i base most of his meals on and around meat, adding things i think would be good for him-blueberries, veggies, etc. just mash up and steam, boil whatever. always feed the meat/bones raw. it can be overwhelming at first. seems too complicated but really its not. just takes a little extra effort.
doghealer, your nigel may have just eaten too fast or could have overeaten to make him throw up. next time try leg/thigh quarters. they are way too big to swallow whole, so he will have to chew. you can also give it to him one leg at a time. that way he has to wait on the next mouthful, maybe giving him time to get it down. also, dont feed kibble with rmb. this can cause stomach upset and possibly cause vomitting/diarhea. as far as kitchen scales, i have one that i used when i first started doing raw. i would measure everything, but now i just eyeball it. like i said there is no exact science to it. you will also learn to spot what looks like 1/2 lb legs and such. chicken necks weigh about 2 oz each (skinless), legs weigh about 4-6 oz each, thighs about 6-8 oz each, and so on. and there is nothing wrong with giving a bit too much or too less. and watch out when they poop-dont be surprised that it is nearly white and almost dry!
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I use to weigh everything too. Now I just eye ball it. I juice my veggies and fruit. I add the pulp and the juice. It takes like 10 min in the morning. As far as how much - I just watch my babies to see how they look. Then I adjust the amounts. I find Wilow will eat quite a bit during growth spurts - then not quite as much for awhile.
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Thanks so much. I just want to do what is best for my dogs. We use to feed hunters choice, then we switched to Pro Plan Turkey and Barley and the Proplan can food or yogart, cottage cheese (which I can't remember why it is good for them). Our pup get a mixture of the proplan giant breed pup and the turkey and Barley plus the other stuff. I just what to know everything I can about it.
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yogurt and cottage cheese, besides being a source of calcium and protein, provides the intestines with "good bacteria". it contains "probiotics" which is the good flora that is found in healthy gut. helps digestion, eases stomach upset, controls yeast in the body. i think you would be pleased with the raw diet if you ever decide to switch. it really is worth it!
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I am now researching raw feeding on the internet. Any suggestions for must reads for good information. Thanks again for your help.
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The rawfeeding group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/) on Yahoo is something to look at, but you do need to join. They are busy, so you'll get approved quickly if you do join.
They do encourage prey-model, which is only meat, bones, and organs, but there are probably other groups if you are interested in adding vegetables, cheese, and such to their diet.
I hope that goes well. :)
Sofia
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The rawfeeding group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/) on Yahoo is something to look at, but you do need to join. They are busy, so you'll get approved quickly if you do join.
They do encourage prey-model, which is only meat, bones, and organs, but there are probably other groups if you are interested in adding vegetables, cheese, and such to their diet.
I hope that goes well. :)
Sofia
Thanks Sofia, I will try that. I just wanted to say your daughter is so cute and looks to be the same age as my daughter who is about to 15 months on the 19th of Nov. I am so interested in.
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Thanks Sofia, I will try that. I just wanted to say your daughter is so cute and looks to be the same age as my daughter who is about to 15 months on the 19th of Nov. I am so interested in.
My sister. :) Good Hope is my mother (Deena). I (Sofia) am the oldest daughter in the family. Sorry about that.
Sofia
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Thanks Sofia, I will try that. I just wanted to say your daughter is so cute and looks to be the same age as my daughter who is about to 15 months on the 19th of Nov. I am so interested in.
My sister. :) Good Hope is my mother (Deena). I (Sofia) am the oldest daughter in the family. Sorry about that.
Sofia
I'm sorry but i think you just really confussed me.
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yes, there are many groups on raw feeding out there. did join a few of them. not a member now. seems like alot of the groups didnt like the typical newbie questions and would not respond or became a little sarcastic. one group i joined several of the members didnt allow the mention of kibble and would literally call new members out on bringing up the subject. i didnt like that so i not a member now. i did research on my own, read books, etc. as far a prey model feeding-i just cant bring myself to toss a rabbit to hugo and let him rip it up like a wolf-sorry. but that's not to say that wouldnt be a great way to feed your dogs-i just havent the heart or the stomach. if i can be of any help or if you have ques for me, just feel free to post or pm me :)
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After talking to my husband and letting him know all the benefits that I have found so far he has agreed to try it. Now I have to find out where to start. We are also switch our cats to a raw diet as well. I am interested in seeing the difference. We have an eplepitic (sp) 9 year old bealge who is now having problems with his thyrod (sp) and our lab has constant runs, although it is not as bad sense I started giving yogart and cottage cheese a few months ago. I have also interested my mom who has 3 dogs also.
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it is said that alot of diseases in dogs and cats can be attributed to their diet and with feeding raw, you may be able to cure them. i am curious as well to see your results. you need to be patient though because there may be a period of adjustment which their body will detox from the dog food. within the first few days/weeks there may be loose stools and vomitting. you can read more when you do your internet research. just wanted to tell you this can happen so you will be prepared. hugo didnt really have alot of problems adjusting. again each dog will vary from the next. you will notice right away though coat condition, breath/teeth, less water intake, smaller stools.
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Hi There! I'm really new to raw feeding - have been contemplating the idea for the past 5 or 6 months (even before the arrival of my Leo puppy). I was wondering if someone had a tip on how much to feed. I know this is a "go by how your dog looks and feels" type thing - but in general, I've seen so many differing guidelines. Some say 10% for puppies (is 5 months still a puppy?) until the amt. your feeding equals 2-3% of the ideal adult weight, I've seen 3-4% of the ideal adult weight, and then 2-4% of the current weight?!!? :-[ :-\
Any rules of thumb for me? Also, I've been feeding mostly chicken quarters, chicken necks, some wings (but wing size freaks me out) and Omas pre mixed (veg, meat, organ & bone). Bogard is doing really well and going to town, but I need to add some variety to the chicken. Are chicken backs the best thing to add? And you give them whole, right? (Still conceptually seems crazy....but he's LOVING eating for the first time in his little puppy life!)
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Hi There! I'm really new to raw feeding - have been contemplating the idea for the past 5 or 6 months (even before the arrival of my Leo puppy). I was wondering if someone had a tip on how much to feed. I know this is a "go by how your dog looks and feels" type thing - but in general, I've seen so many differing guidelines. Some say 10% for puppies (is 5 months still a puppy? 5 months is still very much a puppy. large breeds will be considered a puppy til they are at least 2.) until the amt. your feeding equals 2-3% of the ideal adult weight, I've seen 3-4% of the ideal adult weight, and then 2-4% of the current weight?!!?  :-[ :-\ puppies grow very fast and depending on his activity level, you will have to readjust his feeding amount pretty often. not sure where to tell you to start. i would do a meat mostly diet and base everything else on that. weigh him then i would start no less than 5% of that, mostly being meat. just my opinion. you can adjust depending on how hungry he seems and if he is steadily growing. always be ready to provide more if you think he looks a little "lean" or feed a little less if he starts to get a pot belly. not sure with leos but giant schn dont need to carry around a big pot belly. it is better to keep them trim looking (not skinny but certainly not with a big belly).
Any rules of thumb for me? Also, I've been feeding mostly chicken quarters, chicken necks, some wings (but wing size freaks me out) and Omas pre mixed (veg, meat, organ & bone). Bogard is doing really well and going to town, but I need to add some variety to the chicken. Are chicken backs the best thing to add? And you give them whole, right? (Still conceptually seems crazy....but he's LOVING eating for the first time in his little puppy life!) chiccken is always a good place to start. after chicken you can add beef, pork, tuna and other fish, deer, turkey, eggs, duck, lamb basically any kind of meat AND bone. chicken backs are fine, wings are great,as he gets older you might want to try thigh quarters (which as fairly big and a little intimidating for pups) necks would be a good thing to give for snacks because of their small size or as training treats. you can also give hearts and gizzards, and a couple of times a week liver, but my dogs dont like liver. basically just experiment. i am not familiar with omas, but chances are is is not cheap and you may find you can make your own "recipe" that will suit your dog and make it more affordable. dogs really dont need grain but i feed it because they sometimes need a bulk item. as a filler. they just like to taste it :) oh, you can also give cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt. dont forget you can give green tripe (which i havent-ewwww-sorry) but some people swear by it.
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Thanks Shellie! The Oma's is expensive, but I thought I'd try it to start as I having a hard time watching Bogard swallow down whole chicken wings, and when I hold them to try to slow him down he breaks them in 2 and gulps the bone shards....whic h makes me a little nervous about poking his insides or possible trouble passing them. But from what I've read, the bones (and actually breaking down and eating the bones) is a huge part of the BARF diet.
So I tried quarters thinking he'd chew slower and he bites off the knobs at the end of the thigh bone and swallows those whole!! They just look big for him to digest.....but that is normal, right??!? :-\
The crazy thing is this whole raw switch isn't about Bogard (he loves the food and is sooo much happier eating) it's about my issues with the new foods.
Thanks for the "how much" info too - that is about what I've been giving him. I want to keep him lean and a bit skinny while he's in his growth period. He's almost 5 months and only about 45lbs.
Mandy & Bogard
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I think he will slow down once he gets use to being fed raw regularly.
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I think he will slow down once he gets use to being fed raw regularly.Â
I think you're right....I've just never seen him so excited about food (I had trouble keeping 3 cups of kibble/day in him as a pup - he never wanted to eat) and now he's at it with gusto! cute & scary.
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Last night we feed our dogs their 1st raw meal and they loved it. My Beagle looked at us like we had lost our minds at first (like,is this some kind of trick or something). They really enjoyed. My cats on the other hand stasrted this morning aren't to happy. I'm sure they will get over it. I was so excited that I even took pictures, I would post them but I don't want to gross and one out.
Jenn
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well good for you!!! Your dogs will be so appy and you will see a difference in their weight and coats. My female pom was chunky before we started feeding BARF. within like 2 weeks Irie actually had a waist line. My male poms coat which use to be course is now really soft. They have pretty white teeth and not bad dog breath anymore. It has really worked for us. There is a period of detox - I thin my poms - it took about 2 weeks. They were listless and had the runs for a bit. But I knew this was happening and i worried but I kep it up. Now they are doing great. You will also work out a routine also. I made such a huge mess at 1st but now it takes me like 10 minutes in the am to juices veggies and add supplements. At night they just raw meaty bones (what ever is on sale). I also fast my dogs 1 day a week. My vet says that it helps them purge the bones they have eaten. On those days they get lots of water and a regular bone to knaw on. Anyway, it is worth it.
Timmie
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it really is worth it! SO GLAD TO HEAR YOU GUYS MADE THE LEAP!!!! LOL! actually doing it for the first time is the tuff part! after you see the difference, you will not look back! as far as the "bone shards" go, at first it does seem scary. afterall we all have been programmed to think that bones are bad for dogs! think of it this way, how many times has your dog inhaled his kibble only to choke on a few peices and "hoik" (cough) it back out. feeding raw, hugo has never gotten strangled on the bones.
mandy you mentioned something about the leg quarters looking too large to digest? the raw meat, no matter how big is way more digestable than the tiniest of kibble pieces. while it looks large, it will be fine. and yes they do eventually slow down when eating. try feeding him more often thruout the day. maybe he gets too hungry and that added to the excitement of getting to eat chicken may make him swallow whole. you can always hold the leg and teach him to eat it "easy". this would be a good way to train him to take things form your hands and fingers in a gentle manner and not take the hide off of YOUR bones!
Timmie, you are right about dogs getting a waistline! seems like the raw diet trims them up to the proper size. i think kibble bloats the dogs and makes them gain "fat weight". the raw diet puts on muscle instead of fat.