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Siberian Huskies => Siberian Husky Discussions => : Cymbaline July 19, 2005, 08:09:22 PM

: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 19, 2005, 08:09:22 PM
Hi everyone - My name is Cymbaline and I'm located in Austin, Texas.

I'm sorry I'm not giving a formal introduction I'll be happy to fill in any gaps later :)

I apologize ahead of time for this being so long and if this is posted in the wrong area :(

I think I maybe faced with a problem with two of my dogs. I own 1 male malamute (Amadeus) and 1 male Siberian and malamute mix (Bandit).

We adopted both from an animal shelter. Both live outside in a 200 square foot pen. My boyfriend and I spend as much time as possible with both dogs. On average this equals to 30 to 45 minutes a day with the dogs.

Both dogs are neutered. I can not claim both are obedient dogs however both are highly intelligent and can hit any obedience training command right off the bat.

That saying they both have their quirks which makes them both very unobedient as well.

Amadeus is an escape artist. This we recognized in him from the start so we built the pen to be as tough as possible. The pen is made with wire fencing made to contain horse. The bottom of the pen as chicken wire buried into the dirt, The top of the pen has electric wire and the pen door is chained and padlocked.

Amadeus however in the last 4 years we have had both dogs has managed to break out of the pen twice.


This being said today was the second time. When I left to go to work this morning both dogs where in the pen. I know because I through them their morning raw hide treat, say good morning and give them both some ear scratches before I leave.

This afternoon both dogs where in the pen. I know because I gave them both a chicken jerky, gave them ear scratches, checked and filled up their water.

Later however I have man knock on my door and tell me that both of my dogs had gotten out today and killed his pet rabbit. I follow him to his house and he shows me his pet rabbit which is still laying on his back porch, the broken down hutch etc.

He tells me that someone had informed him that they saw my dogs loose and someone else had put my dogs back into their pen.

I apologize to him, ask him if there is anything I can please do for him. I do not know what to say concerning this because I have never dealt with this type of problem before. I understand that he has to be mad at me concerning this issue. I would be mad as well. I honestly wish there is something I could do for the man but I know I can not.

The owner of the rabbit informs me that he thought his house had been vandalized prior to seeing the dead rabbit and had called the police to file a report.

He believes the police will label my dogs as dangerous dogs. I disagree that this will come down to that. I know recently there was a little girl who did get mauled by a pack a dogs in my neighborhood. At that time there was not leash law. There supposely is a leash law now in my neighborhood. I was one who supported that law. However there are still several dogs running loose in my neighborhood. The same dogs running loose prior to the leash law coming into effect are still running loose in my neighborhood so I don't think the law is really being enforced all to well.

I feel if the police does do anything to me it maybe a fine for having my dogs running loose. There isn't a law that states they have to be registered by the way.

Also in Texas for a dog to be labeled "dangerous dog" it must have attacked a human.

Ok so well.. back to my problem...

Even with all of the above do not feel I do not feel regret for what happened. I do all too well because I love animals. I'm hurt my dogs did what they do however I also know dogs are dogs and rabbits are prey animals.

I feel my dogs did what came naturally to them. I also feel it's my responsibility to ensure this does not happen again and here is why I'm coming to you all.


I need advice. I feel my dogs do have a higher prey drive. I do suspect they may have aggressive tendencies. I have some grounds to feel this way however I never had an incident which proves they are.

My dogs have done the following which scares me.

1. Gave short chase to a kid on a bike
2. My dog Bandit did growl on two different incidents when a little kid got in his face
3. Killed that rabbit (not sure which did it)
4. My dog Bandit chased after a flock of ducks once
5. My dog Amadeus once attacked another malamute at the dog park (according to the owner)

The deal is I don’t want to make excuses and end up with something really happening.  Besides trying to re-enforce their pen, maybe try to get them more exercise (which is hard because I myself hate exercise and here being hot weather right now) what else is there that I can try?

I’ve considered more obedience training however like I said before they can hit any lesson taught with flying colors no problems. I don’t have a problem with obedience when dealing with them one on one.

But together they seem more unruly. I’m considering the following.

1.   Find a home for one of the dogs. I don’t know which one because I love both. But maybe when I do I’ll find a more submissive, calmer older spayed female as a companion for one.

I may actually find Amadeus a new home since he is the one that has the tendency to try and break loose all the time. This may resolve one problem.

But I fear that Bandit may have aggression issues (which Amadeus has not shown towards people) and I need to deal with that.

Ok… please help. Please be nice guys. I don’t know anyone here yet. I know everyone is a critic in life but I feel bad enough. I know my dogs have done wrong. I know I need to do something. I take blame and with that I want to take action I just need to know what is the best course.

Thank You
Cymbaline
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: SaraphWolf79 July 19, 2005, 09:00:58 PM
Hiya Cymbaline and welcome to the site!

You and I dear appear to have the same problem - dogs that are master escape artists.  For one, the breed you have gives off a good clue...malamut es and especially siberian huskies, from what I'm learning (it's a slow, frustrating process, believe you me) are born to run.  It's in their blood.  Mine has already escaped from the yard 4 times now in the last 3 months I've owned him.  Fortunately, each time some kind person found him and returned him to me.  He's not an aggressive dog by any means (he's neutered as well) but even still, the times he's gotten loose and is gone off on one of his wild running sprees around town worries the heck out of me not only because he may get hit by a car, he may by chance hurt someone or another animal. 

I also have a German Shepherd and Chow.  They were basically raised together, and are like sisters.  The German Shepherd is stunningly clever when it comes to getting out of the yard.  She knows how to open gates and I've had to put locks on all of the latches so she isn't able to open them.  When one idea fails to work, she tries another...it takes a little time, but she always finds another way, is always one step ahead of the game.  We cemented all the way around the fence and she still finds her way out.  We eventually had an 8 ft wooden fence put up - that worked for almost two years, I was actually starting to become convinced we had won the battle...appar ently not won the war, however lol.  In one night, while we were sleeping, she tore a hole in the fence and squeezed her way out.  *sighs* 

Except for that, both girls mind well, but when they're together, watch out.  Naga, the German Shepherd, listens better than my Chow, but even still, separately, they both act like little angels.  When you get them together, it's like two demon spawns from h*ll.  Always up to something, always planning something, always getting into trouble.  If I could, I'd give one away, but I don't have the heart to separate the two, they've been together for 10 years now, and it would be cruel to break their bond now.

I wish there was some kind of advice I could give you for your babies.  It doesn't sound like they're bad dogs at all - you just have to constantly be one step ahead of them.  If you ever need someone to vent your pup frustrations on, you can always talk to me.  I'm here for ya!

-Carrie     
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: DixieSugarBear July 19, 2005, 09:15:35 PM
He tells me that someone had informed him that they saw my dogs loose and someone else had put my dogs back into their pen.

Have you talked to the person that saw the dog loose? Have you talked to the persona that put the dogs back in the pen?  Could the rabbit have been killed by the other loose dogs?
 

You may want to try kongs or some toys to keep them busy during the long hours spent in the pen.  Is is possible to spend several hours a day with them, maybe inside the home during the evening hours?


Lisa


: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: waffles717 July 20, 2005, 06:31:54 AM
Sounds like you cound have a problem! but being he is outside this would be a sulution at night,I would use a Muzzle! just for the times of really Bordon, when you know he could be aGssvise,he will not be able to get out,and during the day give things he really likes so at so by night time he eat's gets his muzzels then he can's get out!! by then he will calm down and also vet's do give things to dog's to help this is all fails But will Muzzel HE will not be able to Chew!!!or Hurt any one!!!Only a thought!!!!Hope I Helped!!M,L,!!!
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: BabsT July 20, 2005, 06:55:00 AM
I am sorry but you cant expect to working breeds of dogs to be content in a pen and only getting 45 minutes of attention a day even if you gave them all the kongs in the world.  They need to be stimulated physically and mentally

your dogs are bored and need something to do.  Givethem a job, strap a harness to them take them for hikes..somethi ng...If you yourself hate exercise, why would you get dogs that need tons of exercise?

I am out of the house at either 4 or 5 am to take my dog for his walk and wait until sometimes 10pm when it is cool enough to do our 3 miles...He also can do it in the middle of the day when it is 90 and humbid but I rather it be enjoying for him

add a top to the pen to it to prevent them from jumping over. Electric fencing doesnt phase most dogs.
 
How old are the dogs?  I am surprised that two male nordic breeds are ok with each other.  I could be because they are not mature yet

Muzzling is not going to solve any problem if anything it will add to it making the dog even more frustrated.

Enroll in some OB training and work them everday with it...

I can be rather harsh and I am sorry for that but you owe it to them to exercise and take on the full responsibilty of owning a dog

Good Luck

: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: DixieSugarBear July 20, 2005, 07:30:46 AM
If it were me I would have to find a way to bring them inside the home and spend at least a few hours a day with them.

Lisa
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 07:49:30 AM
Hi Zero -

I'm not going to defend why or why not I have any type of dog or how I live my life.
That being said - feel free to keep trying to judge me but you do not know me well enough to have that right.


I agree I need to get them more exercise. I'll see to how I work that out. Thank You for that suggestion Zero -

I currently take them to the dog park once or twice a week. I have been slacking since it's summer and they don't really seem to want to do anything when we go.


About the electric fence - my dogs have never jumped over the fence- nor can they touch the electric wire.

My dogs are about 4 years old. They get along great.

OB Training... you must have not read my whole post.


I agree with having more exercise- once again I thank you for that



: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:01:12 AM
Hiya Cymbaline and welcome to the site!

You and I dear appear to have the same problem - dogs that are master escape artists.  For one, the breed you have gives off a good clue...malamut es and especially siberian huskies, from what I'm learning (it's a slow, frustrating process, believe you me) are born to run.  It's in their blood.  Mine has already escaped from the yard 4 times now in the last 3 months I've owned him.  Fortunately, each time some kind person found him and returned him to me.  He's not an aggressive dog by any means (he's neutered as well) but even still, the times he's gotten loose and is gone off on one of his wild running sprees around town worries the heck out of me not only because he may get hit by a car, he may by chance hurt someone or another animal.  
     

Thank You Carrie -

You hit the nail on the head for me - that and others as well.  I'm going to try and find a way to get them more exercise. I however no longer have much choice on walking them myself.

When I first got my two boys I was able to take them out more often. I do take them to the dog park on the weekends however now that it's summer we don't take spend as much time there. Even at night they run around for 20 mins and then just lay around at my feet.

I'm going to make an effort to look into more possibilities - if anyone here has any suggestions please let me know.

Cym
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:04:44 AM
If it were me I would have to find a way to bring them inside the home and spend at least a few hours a day with them.

Lisa


Lisa - I'll try that and see how it works- I think they do need more exercise though. Being inside the house actually makes Bandit pace. Amadeus doesn't mind, he just lays there and chills out.

I do take them in when feeding them, They eat in the house with me and hang around while I do dishes and chores before I retire at night.

Thanks for the suggestion... guess I'll be working on the hair.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: RedyreRottweilers July 20, 2005, 08:08:02 AM
Your dogs are showing you that they do not have enough exercise or mental stimulation in their lives.

Bored dogs get into trouble.

I would suggest some intersting toys, such as a large rope with a big knot on it hanging from overhead for them to play tug with.

Mine love these little tires I got for them that are specifically made as a dog toy.

Lots of dogs love the big round hard balls called boomer balls.

Carefully hiding small treats all over their exercise area can be a really fun exercise for many dogs.

You also need to do whatever is necessary to make SURE you have an escape proof area for your dogs.

In many areas, a dog would be declared viscious, and either siezed and destroyed, or the owner required to have insurance, special confinement, and muzzled off properly if they kill a small animal while at large.

So, as you have indicated you already know, this is a very serious issue.

You mention you might be concerned about one dog having human aggression issues. Can you describe why you feel this way?

Dog/dog issues, or the prey driven chasing or killing of small animals does not generally translate to human aggression problems. It's basically normal dog behavior that is not seen frequently because of the way we socialize and manage our dogs.

Best of luck, it's a ticklish issue for sure, and it sounds like you are trying your best to figure a solution.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:10:08 AM
He tells me that someone had informed him that they saw my dogs loose and someone else had put my dogs back into their pen.

Have you talked to the person that saw the dog loose? Have you talked to the persona that put the dogs back in the pen?  Could the rabbit have been killed by the other loose dogs?
 

You may want to try kongs or some toys to keep them busy during the long hours spent in the pen.  Is is possible to spend several hours a day with them, maybe inside the home during the evening hours?


Lisa


Hey Lisa again -

Do dogs actually do anything with those Kongs other than just lick the contents out? lol mine do not chew on them. I do however give them bully sticks, rawhide etc to chew up. Toys... forget it lol they don't care for any expect stuffed toys but only so they can tear them up.

Thanks for the suggestion, would love more from you.

Cymbaline
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: BabsT July 20, 2005, 08:10:48 AM
they have to be getting out somehow...eith er that or your dogs had nothing to do with the incident...if they arent digging under and they arent jumping over then they have to be getting out somehow.  My  sisters Anatolian would go through an electric fence like it was nothing

You are right, I dont know you or your dogs and the only thing I can go by is what you posted.  You said they do good in OB but not together, then you need to work at both of them listening to you at the same time

In regards to killing a rabbit your dogs were only being dogs and that is no fault of their own...I mean did they go into the rabbits hutch and destroy the cage or was the rabbit out and about.  A dog can not distinguish a pet from a wild animal

The reason they are unruly together is because you have the pack mentality setting out for a hunt it seems

I can be harsh, I wont deny that and I apologized from the get go but your opening sentence is your whole problem.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:22:47 AM
Hey  RedyreRottweil ers - Thanks to all of you... I do now really realize they need more exercise. I agree. both dogs are highly intelligent and use to have more exercise. However unfortunately in the last year I myself can no longer give them what they use to get.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for your positive suggestions you are giving me ...please give me more suggestions for toys!! Mine do not seem to play with any expect ones they can eat and tearup.

I bought two of those trick balls.. the hard ones that you can hide treats in them and they should roll around to get the treats to come out. Amadaus tore it up.

The reasons why I fear they may have agression issues is for the following reasons:

1. Gave short chase to a kid on a bike
2. My dog Bandit did growl on two different incidents when a little kid got in his face
3. Killed that rabbit (not sure which did it)
4. My dog Bandit chased after a flock of ducks once
5. My dog Amadeus once attacked another malamute at the dog park (according to the owner)

Those are the only things that have happend but it's enough in my mind to warrant concern. Bandit concerned me when he made a kinda growl at this one kid who was slapping at his face (trying to pet him) I don't know if he was just having a bad day but he did this twice in one day. He was on a leash during this time and being crowded by kids all trying to pet him.

On the other hand. another other times in petsmart he rolls right over and wants his belly scratched. Amadeus.. oh loves kids, loves people, always wants to be petted etc.

I do not know were to to begin finding out if they have agression or a tendency for aggression.  I feel that killing the rabbit does not warrant them agressive. I'm sure they rabbit panicking in it's hutch excited them.

Any suggestions on how to diagnosis if they do have agression issues?

Cym
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: DixieSugarBear July 20, 2005, 08:35:49 AM

Hey Lisa again -

Do dogs actually do anything with those Kongs other than just lick the contents out? lol mine do not chew on them. I do however give them bully sticks, rawhide etc to chew up. Toys... forget it lol they don't care for any expect stuffed toys but only so they can tear them up.

Thanks for the suggestion, would love more from you.

Cymbaline

My babies grandma goes to the second hand stores and buys bags of stuffed toys at $2.00 per bag.  I give Sugar Bear and Dixie new toys several time a week. At that price they can have a ball killing a new toy. I know that the breeds you have a very different from Great Pyrenees, but the more time I spend with my babies the better they are.  I take my dogs to work with me and they sleep most of the day under my desk.  Good luck, I am sure you love you babies and will do what every is best for your family.

Lisa

: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: RedyreRottweilers July 20, 2005, 08:38:09 AM
Hey  RedyreRottweil
The reasons why I fear they may have agression issues is for the following reasons:

1. Gave short chase to a kid on a bike

This is prey drive/herding/chasing/territorial behavior.  Very common in dogs. Management (proper confinement, leashed when not fenced) will prevent this.
2. My dog Bandit did growl on two different incidents when a little kid got in his face

And how would YOU like it if someone you did not know came right up to you and put their head/face right up to yours? It's your job to see to it your dog is not put into a position where he is compelled by his very instict to do something not considered appropriate in human society. I tell people almost daily, DO NOT PUT YOUR FACE OR HEAD NEXT TO MY DOG's. Dogs do NOT consider this a friendly gesture unless it's coming from an intimate pack member that they view as a superior. This is a key reason why SO many people, esp kids, get bitten in the face. Control these interaction, and tell people DO NOT put your head next to the dog's. Then you have a great opportunity to explain why. It's viewed as a dominance/control gesture by dogs. Some will tolerate it. Some won't.

3. Killed that rabbit (not sure which did it)

This is prey behavior. Not associated with aggression towards humans usually. It's natural instinctive behavior.

4. My dog Bandit chased after a flock of ducks once
Same as #1. Chase/prey/herding behavior. Manage as described above.

5. My dog Amadeus once attacked another malamute at the dog park (according to the owner)

Again, I would not tend to feel that this would translate to aggression towards humans. Mals are a working group dog, and many adult dogs of working types will not tolerate other adult dogs of the same sex. I personally would NEVER visit an area where I was certain that other dogs of an unknown size, breed, and aggression status would be off leash. TOOO many uncontrollable variables for me.

One other thing that my dogs just love are big plastic soda or juice bottles. I take off the caps and the little ring underneath, and let them have at it. They LOVE these things. They can toss them, and manipulate them, and destroy them, they make a cool noise when they are chewing them. I have one dog who was a kennel dog. She was so destructive when I tried to integrate her into my household pack. Being able to "kill and destroy" these soda bottles changed her life. She always has something to take her frustrations out on, and she dearly loves them.

They do need to be used under supervision, and inspected regularly and the really torn up ones disposed of.

Good luck with your boys, it's clear you care, and are trying to find some workable solutions.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:42:27 AM
they have to be getting out somehow...eith er that or your dogs had nothing to do with the incident...if they arent digging under and they arent jumping over then they have to be getting out somehow.  My  sisters Anatolian would go through an electric fence like it was nothing

You are right, I dont know you or your dogs and the only thing I can go by is what you posted.  You said they do good in OB but not together, then you need to work at both of them listening to you at the same time

In regards to killing a rabbit your dogs were only being dogs and that is no fault of their own...I mean did they go into the rabbits hutch and destroy the cage or was the rabbit out and about.  A dog can not distinguish a pet from a wild animal

The reason they are unruly together is because you have the pack mentality setting out for a hunt it seems

I can be harsh, I wont deny that and I apologized from the get go but your opening sentence is your whole problem.

It's ok that you do not like my opening sentence. I understand how it's easy to try to judge someone based on what you can and can not do and it's also easy to base an opinion about someone on a few facts.

As you did state you based your opinion on what I posted. I however did not post everything about me and my dogs, our daily lifes etc. If I did do that it maybe a novel you would have been reading instead of a very long post.

I'm sure you mean well and your passion for dogs maybe causes you to "harsh" however I know myself and I know that I'm a resposible pet owner even if by your standards I may not be.



Cymbaline


: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: BabsT July 20, 2005, 08:52:51 AM
If your dog wasnt brought up around children and a child slapping in a petting sort of way is prob a bit threatening to a dog so your dog reacted.  He didnt just react and bite he gave a bit of a warning which some dogs dont

Only a reputable good trainer can tell you if your dogs are truly aggressive because no one is there to see your dogs in action around people, different places etc...and reputable trainers I feel are far and few inbetween

Have you tried marrow or knuckle bones...that keeps my dog occupied and he will not touch a kong if his life depended on it.  If you are giving your dog bones you should superives just for safety sake

What if you kept the two dogs separeted until play time so they are more excited to see each other and more inclined to play

Have you tried getting a harness and giving them a old tire to pull?  I know a lot of dogs that like that
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 08:55:01 AM
RedyreRottweil ers -

Thanks for the suggestion - that bottle idea gives me some ideas.. maybe put some kibble in there that may make a cheap toy for them .

Once again Thank You, Thank You.. You do not know what kind of relief you have made me feel. I truly appreciate your input.

I agree, I should have not allowed the kids to crowd Bandit. I appreciate you bringing that to light. I have since then have told people that I do not want little kids petting him on the face. I take my boys to petsmart all the time and people love to come pet them.

Looking back the brief chase they gave the boys on the bike ... they did not have leashes on, we were on the lake bed (Austin drains town lake each year when it is cold to try and kill off some type of grass) and we were down there letting the boys run around.

I take my boys down to the lake during the summers.. it's freezing cold water but since I do not want to chance them running off I do not let them off the leash.

I use to let one at a time go but Bandit will run off and come back 10 minutes later.. during that time I'm concerned I'll never see him again so I stopped that.

Any suggestions which will allow me to let them go swimming and maybe run around a bit near the lake?

: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 09:02:20 AM
If your dog wasnt brought up around children and a child slapping in a petting sort of way is prob a bit threatening to a dog so your dog reacted.  He didnt just react and bite he gave a bit of a warning which some dogs dont

Only a reputable good trainer can tell you if your dogs are truly aggressive because no one is there to see your dogs in action around people, different places etc...and reputable trainers I feel are far and few inbetween

Have you tried marrow or knuckle bones...that keeps my dog occupied and he will not touch a kong if his life depended on it.  If you are giving your dog bones you should superives just for safety sake

What if you kept the two dogs separeted until play time so they are more excited to see each other and more inclined to play

Have you tried getting a harness and giving them a old tire to pull?  I know a lot of dogs that like that

Thank You, Thank You Zero for your input...

Yes, I give them knuckle bones etc. I honestly think your first suggestion about exercise is the key. I think they have tons of things to chew up.. no real "toys' since before talking to RedyreRottweil ers - I honestly didn't have a clue what kind of toys to give which wouldn't cause harm.

I think I became fearful when I was giving them stuffed toys, which they tore up, which I didn't mind but one day Amadeus threw up in the back of our Explorer and out came a stuffed rabbit arm....

I thought I had a good eye on them when they were playing with that thing and I thought I picked up all the pieces but.... once again I messed up.

I'm going to go get that tire but can it withstand a bored Malamut? Does anyone have one?



: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: Cymbaline July 20, 2005, 09:11:27 AM
Opinions on this... thank You

I'm thinking about ways for more exercise for my dogs. I can not walk my dogs anymores. I could send my husband to do it but more guy works hard all day long and is tired by the time he gets home. Also he is gone for a few days at a time sometimes.

I'm thinking about hiring someone to walk them.
I do live near a lake and a dog park I will make more of an effort to take them there. The dog park is fenced so they can run around but the lake is not.

Any suggestions for the lake? They do like to swim.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: GYPSY JAZMINE July 20, 2005, 01:04:29 PM
As you are realizing, all the toys in the world are not going to "fix" your dogs...I don't know your particular breeds other than they are working dogs & need exercise & interaction with humans to be good dogs...What I am wondering is will they play fetch?...Chase a frisbee?...I know they are both dogs with a high energy level & prey drive so if you could toss a frisbee or a ball to them, that kind of thing it would help tremendously.. .Bored dogs will find a way to get in trouble if at all possible which (if it was your dogs) you have already found by the rabbitt incident...The dog walker is a good idea for sure...Try to follow up on that...Also, even if you can't walk them try to spend more time with them & I think you will see alot of change in them.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: BabsT July 20, 2005, 01:21:57 PM
Might not be a good question but how come you are unable to walk them? 
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: GYPSY JAZMINE July 20, 2005, 01:34:58 PM
I was kind of wondering that also Babs. :P :)
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: greek4 July 20, 2005, 01:43:45 PM
I think they are just not used to children, bikes, etc and are acting like dogs.  I had to work very hard to get Maia socialized and friendly.  She is still weary of new things but she is doing 100% better.
As for the rabbit...
My dogs kill wild rabbits, birds, squirrels, and anything else small (not cats) that comes into my yard.  Maia will bark at anyone she doesn't know who approaches the fence but she loves the people she does know.  Rocco hates rollerblades and will chase anyone on them.  Rocco loves to chase geese.  Rocco has been in two fights that he actually fought back, both with other males, one was because the other dog was humping him, the other because the other dog growled in his face.

I agree with just exercising them more.
In the winter, I have to wear my dogs out or no one sleeps.  I take them to the dog park which us tons of fun but takes a lot of time to get ready, get there, get in/out of car, etc.  I think daily walks around the block or playing fetch, or flashlight tag, laser pointer are great.

Good luck,you just need to find your groove agian with your dogs.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: pndlake July 21, 2005, 06:32:49 PM
hmmmm how old are these dogs?  Maybe you posted this but I did not see it. Age makes a big difference.   Each situation is different, each dog is different, each home enviornment is different.  You chose to have dogs that need a great deal of attention and you are in a city-type enviornment.  You are very wise by hiring somebody to walk them if you, for whatever reason, are unable to do so.  That is a great step.  You also seem to care a great deal which is an asset to your character - so many people don't care. 

OK,OK no you did not tell us your whole story, but I am curious, do you have a husband or a boyfriend (or both)  8)

Peggy
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: LuvmyMal July 21, 2005, 07:47:53 PM
Hi, I have a 6 month old Alaskan Malamute and use to have a husky mix. When I had my husky I was unsure of the exercise needed for the working group (I was 17 yrs old) and I happened to inherit the dog from my sister-in-law. Needless to say she escaped everything and did kill cats, rabbitts, etc... in the neighborhood, fortunately my neighbors were not so upset as to report the incident. This happened in 1-2 days.  She also tore up everything in the yard, fortunately my sister-in-law moved to where she would have acres to play on and took her with her. Now I have my mal and did plenty of research on the breed before getting her. She stays inside all the time and gets exercised a lot. With any working dog you have to keep them busy or they will keep themselves busy. Fortunately we can leave her for 4 hrs in the house not in her playpen and she just sits on the couch, when we are at work she is in a 3x2 playpen in the kitchen and does not seem to bother anything unless she it trying to get out then she scratches the floor. I have noticed with her that if I walk her first thing in the morning she is wonderful throughout the day, this does not happen everyday in the morning, but she does get walked sometime throughout the day. Even when you think they are pooped out they are not, she can walk 4 miles and act like she is so tired then see a rabbit and take off like she has not exercised in days. The breed is very deceiving in that way.  If you can try to exercise them for atleast 30 mins (hard exercise) per day, I know you said that is hard to do but it will pay off. I think someone else mentioned having them pull, that is wonderful, it will let them do what they are suppose to do.

As far as getting out and killing the rabbitt, make sure that your dogs did it before you get in trouble for it, it may be that this neighbor may not care for larger dogs and is trying to get them out of the neighborhood, if there are other dogs loose they may have done it.  Try not to let you or your babies get a bad rap. If you need any exercises to do with them let me know, we even have things that we do when she can't go outside that keep her calm
Tasha
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: GYPSY JAZMINE July 22, 2005, 12:59:44 AM
hmmmm how old are these dogs?  Maybe you posted this but I did not see it. Age makes a big difference.   Each situation is different, each dog is different, each home enviornment is different.  You chose to have dogs that need a great deal of attention and you are in a city-type enviornment.  You are very wise by hiring somebody to walk them if you, for whatever reason, are unable to do so.  That is a great step.  You also seem to care a great deal which is an asset to your character - so many people don't care.  

OK,OK no you did not tell us your whole story, but I am curious, do you have a husband or a boyfriend (or both)  8)

Peggy
I believe she said the dogs were 4 yrs. old if I remember correctly, Peggy...& I believe she said she had a hubby...I hope she'll find a solution for her dogs.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: mixedupdog July 22, 2005, 05:00:18 AM
For swimming in places that are not off leash, I use a harness and a long line. I bought a 30' lunge line, it's basically a long leash for horses. Our Petsmart has a Stateline Tack store in it, but any horse supply will have them. I got a cotton one (easier on the hands than nylon). 
You could use the long line on the dog that runs off, or take them on different days (two long lines would probably be hard to handle).
Swimming is great excersize for hot days, and will go a long way to wearing them out.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: RedyreRottweilers July 22, 2005, 06:06:39 AM
I do know people who swim dogs on a long line.

You do have to be VERY CAREFUL not to let the dog get entangled, for obvious reasons.

Otherwise, it's a great way to let them swim and not be loose.

:D
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: pndlake July 23, 2005, 01:54:44 AM
Gypsy,  I thought I read first that she and her boyfriend were working on the problem then she referred to her husband. Having both is ok too.   I was just trying to be funny, really none of my business and nothing to do with the aggression problem.  ::)

Peggy
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: GYPSY JAZMINE July 23, 2005, 02:01:40 AM
Gypsy,  I thought I read first that she and her boyfriend were working on the problem then she referred to her husband. Having both is ok too.   I was just trying to be funny, really none of my business and nothing to do with the aggression problem.  ::)

Peggy
Peggy, A husband & a boyfriend could have alot to do with an agression problem...I friggin' wish!....lol!...Having both would be great!...again, I friggin' wish!...LOL! ((((Peggy)))))
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: pndlake July 23, 2005, 02:03:50 AM
haha you are right Gypsy, I stand corrected.

Peggy
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: DixieSugarBear July 23, 2005, 05:15:14 AM
Better yet if the husband is the boyfriend.  ;D  23 years and he is still the man for me.  

Lisa
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: GYPSY JAZMINE July 23, 2005, 08:11:50 AM
Better yet if the husband is the boyfriend.  ;D  23 years and he is still the man for me.  

Lisa
Right on Lisa!!!!!!!!!!!!...My hubby is the my soulmate!...I guess I do have the two rolled into one! ;D
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: siberescuegirl December 03, 2005, 03:51:44 PM
I'm sorry this happened. I would try to talk to the people who say that they saw your dogs loose. If someone put them back in their pen, why wouldn't they have just escaped again? Why wouldn't the person who put them back have left a note or tried to reach you? That sounds odd to me.

A few questions - how much exersize to the dogs get on a daily basis? I know you love your dogs, but 30 to 45 minutes a day is not a lot for these dogs.  These are high-energy breeds, and they are working dogs. They need to expend that energy. If you don't give them enough exersize and they get bored, they will find a way to get out and find something to do.

Why do they live outside? Do they ever come into the house? Do they sleep in the house at night?

You said that these dogs are not really obedient - how much training have they had? Do you practice the obedience training with them? Do you use the training they have received consistently and regularly? Unless you do, they never will be obedient, especially if they don't get to spend much time with you. If they were more obedient could they come in the house and sleep there at night?

I know you love your dogs, but from what you've written, it doesn't sound like you have much time for them. If you want advice on making the outdoor pen more secure, go to www.everything husky.com and go to the forum, there is a section for fencing and containment. You may also want to contact a Husky or Malamute rescue and see if someone can give you tips on making it escape proof. The Husky rescue I work with does this a lot for people who just need some tips.

Good luck. I hope this helps.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: siberescuegirl December 03, 2005, 04:10:27 PM
I'm sure you mean well and your passion for dogs maybe causes you to "harsh" however I know myself and I know that I'm a resposible pet owner even if by your standards I may not be.
Cymbaline

Hi Cymbaline,
I know that you love your dogs, you wouldn't be here asking for help and advice if you didn't. However, if they live outside, get only 30 - 45 minutes with you a day, and are escaping because they are bored and don't get enough excersize and stimulation, and you can't give them the time and excersize that they need - then the responsible thing to do is to contact some rescue organizations and see if you can find new homes for them where they will get the excersize, socialization, training and human contact that they need.  Many rescues have referral programs - this means that the dogs stay with you instead of being taken into foster care by the rescue. The rescue lists  the dogs on their web sites and invites you to bring the dogs to adoptions where they may be a good fit.

If you really can't give them the time and excersize that they need and socialize and train them, then finding them a home where they will get these things is the kindest, most responsible thing that you can do for them. 

As someone already stated, your dogs chasing the kid on the bike and killing the rabbit do not in any way indicate that they have aggressive tendencies. It's normal behavior for breeds with a high prey drive. That's why Huskies and Malamutes need obedience training starting at a young age. They need to be trained not to chase people and other animals while on leash. When they are off leash, it's up to their owners to make sure they are safely contained.

Your dog growling when the kid got in his face - he was NOT being aggresive. He was using normal "dog language" and letting the kid know that he did not like the kid being in his face. The kid needs to be taught that he needs to ask before petting a dog, and that it's not a good idea just to get in a dog's face like that. And now that you know your dog doesn't like kids getting up in his face, you need to tell kids that it's better if they keep their distance. You need to know your dog and be his advocate.

As far as attacking the other Malamute, from what I've read about Malamute males, this is pretty standard behavior. I too was surprised to read that you have two male Malamutes and that they are not aggressive towards each other.

This is from the Alaskan Malamute Club of America's site:
"Alaskan Malamutes were originally bred to haul heavy sleds across long distances in harsh winter conditions. This necessitated a dog that had tremendous strength, energy, endurance, independence and intelligence. These traits still define Alaskan Malamutes. A first time Mal owner soon learns what this really means. These dogs have extremely high energy levels which require release in appropriate ways. They need to run, play, and bounce around a lot. Without continuous physical and mental stimulation, they become bored and restless. This will certainly result in destructive activities of the dog's choosing, not yours. Alaskan Malamutes can be quite boisterous and even rowdy, especially during their growing years. They will try to challenge the family for the top or "alpha" role. With a large dog (they grow to 65lbs-85lbs and up) this cannot be allowed to happen. The family must learn how to properly deal with this for everyone's sake. "

The same is true of Siberian Huskies, which is why so many shelters have more Huskies than other breeds, and why Husky rescues are continually full.

Best of luck to you. If you can't give your dogs the life that they need, then helping to find them the right kind of home is the best thing that you can do for them.
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: marinafb December 03, 2005, 06:29:14 PM
i agree w/the last person to put there reply in 200% husky are such a beautiful breed but i have to put them right up there w/ the wolf they need alot more then then any human can give them. I have seen 1 on 1 what can happen w/this breed if not raised w/lot of exercice not just walking they need to be run a larage yard is not even going to cut it. They are a working breed and that 's when they are happy! My dogs are like my kids i try and give them the best care training,love and socialization at a very early age in all of my 36 years of owing a dog i have never had a dog that has bitten or been nasty to any human. Back to the husky this breed is a challange i wish you all the best!
: Re: New Member in need of help - Agression problems with Siberian and Mal
: siberescuegirl December 11, 2005, 02:42:49 AM
marinafb, I have to disagree with your statements:
"husky are such a beautiful breed but i have to put them right up there w/ the wolf they need alot more then then any human can give them. "

and

"they need to be run a larage yard is not even going to cut it."

People who are prepared for the challenges of owning a Siberian Husky can provide great lives for these dogs, and a large yard is the ideal way for Huskies to be able to run, play, and get their excersize. Also, Huskies may look like wolves, but they are not wolves, and they are no more genetically similar to a wolf than a poodle is. Please be carefule, your well-intentioned but inaccurate statements make it sound as if it is impossible for humans to have obedient, happy, well socialized and well adjusted Huskies that get the proper excersize and have a good life.