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BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : Bear July 27, 2005, 07:20:02 PM
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Not sure if Jaime mentioned this but last night we ran into a flyer by a little boy who offered a dog walking service. He had some details etc but at the bottom he had written "p.s. No Pitbulls". I felt like calling the number myself just to inquire about the discrimination but didn't. I just thought it was wrong.. I guess wrong in the sense that it will probably have some influence on others that see that flyer.
Michael
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Ugh. That's all I hafta say. I have major issues with people and their prejudice toward anything. Dogs or otherwise. >:(
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Speaking of pit bulls...am wondering if anyone here has information about something I heard on another list and find completely disturbing. It was posted on another list that Denver has recently passed a law prohibiting people from owning pit bulls...or any dog that 'looks' like a pit bull. Another person posted that they had also heard that since this law was passed, over 300 dogs have been euthanized. That animal control is actually going to people's houses and taking their dog(s).
I am appaulled....c an this really be true?! I am hoping not.
Lori
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unfourtunatly it is true, they are trying to pass a law like that in Ontario and in the states as well, sorry I am not sure which ones there is a post on it.
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Here is one
Pit ban in Denver, Miami, Cin - what do u think???, in the general board
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Here is the other, in general board as well
please go to help me BSL has included most big breeds not just pits/rot « 1 2 »
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I'm sure we'd all agree, it's his right to say what dogs he will and won't walk - after all he has to be able to handle the dog if he is walking it in public, which leads me to think he (or his parents) should be more concerned about the individual dog's obedience rather than breed type.
Seems like there is a trend to create legislation targeting specific breeds (or in the insurance industy to refuse coverage if a person has a certain breed). Google the acronym BSL and you'll find various sites discussing it; you'll also find the latest info about dog-related legislation on AKC's web site.
-- T
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You did say it was a little boy. I can't say that I blame him, wasn't the pit bull, a breed specifically created to be a pit fighting dog. They're original stock comes from bull-baiting dogs, etc. I could be wrong on all that, but that is what I've been led to believe.
It seems to make sense that a concerned parent might not want their little boy handling dogs that are meant to take down large game, be agressive and tenacious fighters, etc.?
Why is that line of thinking wrong?
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That line of thinking is really an ignorant line of thinking... and I don't at all mean that in a negative way. But that's precisely what the problem is.. you've been led to believe that and everyone that walks by that note will reinforce in their minds that the breed or dog is the problem.. when it's not. Similar to guns.. do guns kill people? No people kill people.. just as people mistreat or teach wrong behaviors to pit bulls.
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That is soo true and I have to say that I used to be one of those people, towards rottis, until I met one and she was the sweetest dog on the face of the planet. I then educated myself on the breed and realized that it is not the dog that is born agressive, people make the dog agressive, same for pittbulls. No dog is born agressive it is made agressive by us, we then in turn ban the dogs for what we have done to it. This is not right and we had to educate people, that this is what is happening. If one breed gets banned, people will just make another breed agressive for god fights ect, and that breed will get banned ect it is a vicous circle that needs to STOP NOW.
Nina
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I don't really follow your thinking. I realize that more people are probably bitten by labrador retreivers than pit-bulls and that the media witch hunt does play a big part in the negative image of the pit bull.
But the fact remains that they were bred for pit-fighting. I would think that like other animals bred for purposes they would have a strong instinct to do their "job".
Example: Shelties will herd stuff, even if they have never been around a sheep in their life. Pointers will point, Bloodhounds will follow a scent, Newfs have a strong rescue instinct.Â
Bad owners and buttheads are pretty responsible for a lot of the bad press also, but instinct is instinct, even good training and responsible owners can't just make it go away.
If I'm wrong help me to understand where this line of thinking is wrong, I'm open-minded and not afraid to learn new things at all.
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I can't say that I know alot about Pitt bulls, because I don't. And I don't know what they were bred for, but if it was for fighting that is a shame and very sad. I still don't agree with banning a breed as people will jut turn to another for dog fights ect.
Nina
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Well said, Melissakins, It is the PEOPLE who do this to there dogs! The dog doesn't ask to be mean does it no we do this to them. I complety agree to the statement that you made
"Maybe we should lock up the folks who help their dogs become vicious...or prevent them somehow from keeping animals. "
Nina
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Hey Brandon you're right.. it is unfortunately part of their nature but what isn't part of their nature is hate. What this means of course is more work needs to be done to protect these animals.. not ban them. Fully trained and well socialized pit bulls would never attack a child but instead protect them. This flyer, most likely influenced by the parents should instead evaluate the dog their son works with on an individual basis, not exclude them further propagating ignorance.
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In California a lady was killed by a couple's dogs - not sure which breed (Pit or Rottie)
That was Diane Whipple and it was in San Fancisco, and it was two Presa Canarios.. that is a whole other twisted and very demented story.
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i posted about this group in another one of the pit bull discussions, but this site is particularly informative about pit bulls and their aggressive (or not) ways. it specifically answers the question about this being their job, what they were breed for, and how that affects them as pets.
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/myths.cfm
my favorite part is the information about the aggressin test given to over 100 breeds of dogs.
pits actually came out less aggressive than most breeds!!
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There are quite a few "gladiator" type dogs that in history were bred to fight...They just are not CURRENTLY the dogs being used by the "gang culture" that are causing crap like Breed Specific Legislation & general prejudice & ignorance...I have too much going on right now to go look & find the exact breeds but think Bulldog, Boxer,Shar Pai, Chow, etc..etc.....T he list goes on & on...Pits are getting a bad rap now because of idiots that choose to use them as "power dogs" & illegal reasons...You can "mean" any dog up...Without proper socialization, training & treatment my Sammy could & would tear soemone up...No doubt...Pyrs actually have more pressure behind their bite than a pitbull...I choose to train & treat him properly & he is a joy!...B.t.w., anyone remember "The Litte Rascals"?...I can't remember the dogs name but he was a Stafforshire Terrier (lumped in with the pits)...Man he was ferocious! ;) LOL!
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Thinking more about this, It really makes you realize how much the irresponsible owners are at fault. I still feel that there is some agressiveness to the pitbull, they were a mix of bulldog and terrier, and I'm just not a real big terrier fan, I've had too many of them latch onto my ankles unprovoked. I'm sure you'd see more agressive yorkies out there than you would american pit bull terriers. Even though they may love people and are less agressive than some breeds, the real problem is the people who own them need to exercise extra vigilence since as it turns out they are actually really good at fighting. Yorkie=Squirt gun, Pit Bull= a .357 In the wrong hands they're dangerous. It does suck that the breed bans are yet another example of the government's attempts to protect us from ourselves.
Good article (didn't know this stuff): http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amerpit.html
Once bull baiting was banned, dog breeders who appreciated the fierceness, courage, and tenacity of the bull dogs turned their attentions to breeding dogs for dog fighting. They began with the bull dog, mixed in some terrier blood, and produced the Bull and Terrier, a dog that met all of their expectations. The Bull and Terrier was bred for aggression to other dogs, unrelenting bravery, a high pain threshold, a willingness to fight to the end, and an affection for people.
ps: American Temperament Test Society Breed Statistics: (interesting stuff)
http://www.atts.org/statistics.html
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I didn't catch if someone already said this, as I just scanned the thread. REAL pitbulls were animal aggressive, yes, but NEVER people agressive. If they showed any vice towards tehir handlers they were destroyed. These people would have to stick their hands into a mass of adrenaline filled, bloody dog to get their valuable animal. If they were bred to be people agressive, do you think that anyone would be stupid enough to try it?
The thing is, a REAL pit is still prey aggressive, but NEVER EVER EVER people agressive. The pits in the media today are simply dogs with bad temperments, bred thoughtlessly with no regards except for size.
Ang
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Yorkie=Squirt gun, Pit Bull= a .357
Nice!!!!
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Okay, so here is my 6 cents worth. For a starter, as a parent I would be very sceptical to the whole idea that my children would sit or walk dogs. Take for an example my daugher Malin who is 13, she was born into a house with giant dogs, she has grown up with them and is very very good with them and for being 13 knows a lot about dogs. BUT to send her out with dogs that I dont know, well say they overpowered her and she dropped one, can you imagine the guilt she would feel if anything ever happened to a dog that was in her care, and can you imagine the owner......... I know I would be devestated if I left any of my dogs in someones care and something happened to them, especially a kid (it is only so much responsibility you can expect them to have)
For the dog issue, A parent who agrees to this, well I can see why they would not want their child to walk certain DOGS NOT BREEDS, I would as a parent want to see the dogs and get my own opinion if that dog was a good dog for my child to walk or not. And that has NOTHING to do with breed.
Pitbulls are bred to have a fighting instinct when it comes to other dogs, even so I have seen plenty of well bred and well soc. and trained pits that are wonderful with other dogs. And like Bear, said they are NOT bred to fight people. Some dogs snap and attack people, not only pits, but when you see the people who had them and how they talk about dogs and training well it is not hard to see what dogs are in the risk zone to become people aggressive or to snap.
Pitbulls that are bred for show or companionship, with comformation and disposition as first priority and then brought up and trained by people who have the dog and the dogs interest in mind. Well I truly believe that there are very few problems with them, no more than with other breeds that have been badly bred or cared for or trained to be mean and hate people.
Not long ago I read (and it may very well have been on here) there was a dog one of the breeds that are "family favorits" who went into a yard and attacked a person (I think it was a kid, sorry for the poor memory lol) coming to the point now, that family had two pits and these two pits ran to the persons defence and ran the attacking dog off, most likely the person who was attacked would have been severly injured had it not been for the two pitbulls. Soooooo a good dog is a good dog is a good dog, no matter what breed.
Marit
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My brother-in-law had a pit bull (it passed away recently) and he was the best dog I've seen. The only agression this dog ever showed was toward a lab that came at my brother-in-law while they were out walking. The lab was unleashed, snarling and growling. Just before it jumped on Joey his pit grabbed the lab. The pit did not fight the dog, but kept his hold and pinned it to the ground giving Joey an opportunity to put his foot on the dog to hold it and then his pit released.
Pits were bred for fighting but also to be human friendly. If properly trained pits can get along with other dogs. There are several breeds that were originally bred for a "fighting" purpose. Dobermans were bred to be guard dogs for example. It doesn't mean these dogs will simply attack for no reason.
In my opinion, the owners should be punished instead of the dogs. Pit bulls are being put down for no other reason than irresponsible owners that used the dogs as status symbols and thought it was a great idea to have a mean aggressive dog. They are the latest casualty. It has happened before with rottweilers and other dogs. The Dobermans had a very bad reputation in the 70s as people used them the same as they are pits now.
I have a Doberman who is very affectionate and loving. Yet people cross the street when they see us coming. My next door neighbor actually commented to me that the crime rate must be high in this area if I felt the need to have an attack dog. I tried to explain that wasn't what he was and I got him before moving to this area. Her response, "Yeah, whatever."
Punish the dog, not the owner. You have more to fear from my miniature pinscher than you do from my Doberman. She's the fierce one in our house - all 12 pounds of her!
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Those 12 lb. mini's can be dangerous! :)
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I live in Miami, and in many counties all around South Florida they are prohibited. Even in the Animal Cops program in the Animal planet, you can see the Animal control from Miami-Dade county giving owners fines for 500 or 1000 for having one of them at home, and they took them away because they are prohibited. Every time I see that I feel so bad.. :(
My old neighbor had one since he was a puppy and he was so afraid that someone might call the Animal control and take him away from them. He has 2 children and he never had trouble with the dog!...It's all about training and owners should be resposible of that! That's why I read a lot and got as much info as I could before getting into a rottie.
He got along with Sasha so well I coudn't believe it! and he was lovely...!!! in all means...of course he was very protective but same Sasha with us...which dog is not protective with its owner and its home?
I don't know much about pitbulls but I think they are terrific dogs and companions....
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