Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : Kermit September 17, 2005, 08:37:48 AM
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I don't know how I just found this website but it makes me want to cry. I have met a few too many Great Danes who hated or were afraid of kids for this very reason. :'(
http://www.dogriderssociety.com/dog_riders_society_photos.htm
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I get people all the time asking to ride Sanity. A few elluded to riding Tenchi at Petrock (People who should KNOW better). Fortunately there's a clause in Sanity's contract that no one is allowed to ride him EVER! So I just tell people that. Forget scaring them or anything it's horrible for their legs, back, hips, and joints. I accidentally ride Sanity sometimes, when he gets between my legs and takes off, and I can tell you it is NOT comfortable or in anyway an enjoyable experience. Poor babies :(
Ang
ETA and the series of pics with that evil little girl and that poor Dane puppy trying to get away from her just make me sick. And there's a section on teaching a kid to ride a dog! AGHHHHH >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I'm writing the webmaster
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Some of these stories are way off.
"There were 5 kids on different dogs - me on my 232lb German Shepard, Tommy on a 243lb Great Dane, Rob on a 202lb wolf dog, Nick on a 214lb lab/ golden retriever mix, and Jess on his 198lb husky sled dog. We know our dogs weights because we weighed them to make sure it was okay to ride them. "
I'm sure Guiness would love to hear from these kids.......... ..
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This makes me sad. Why would people do this?!?!? Why would they want to teach thier kids that this ok to do to a dog, is beyond me. :-\
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Hmmm...I think if they took the time to fully understand canine communication and body language and how TOLERANT dogs truly are of our human ignorance when it comes to nonverbal communication of other species...they would not be "MOUNTING" their dogs.
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* Does your dog ever mount another dog, or stand on her hind legs with her paws on another dog's back? Sure she's a she, but in dog-think mounting has more to do with dominance than sex. It's her way of saying, "I'm top dog here, and don't you forget it."
Source: http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2060.html
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Or, from another perspective... perhaps the dogs perceive the children as "aroused"...now that's a horrible thought.
Quote:
"Oh my word, what is wrong with my dog, they are humping and they've been fixed." As far as mounting (aka humping) is concerned with neutered or spayed dogs, observations have shown that those (mostly males but sometimes females) who are aroused or excited often times exhibit mounting behavior. This is referred to as a social overture during play. It is believed to have nothing to do with dominance or with one animal trying to convey something to another. Latest research has shown mounting to be a normal canine response that occurs commonly when dogs, especially adolescents, experience emotional states of arousal.
The key to prevention is teaching a dog skills like come or sit/maintain. For example if the dog is going into a state or arousal, they can be cued to stop the behavior and calm themselves down before mounting occurs. With the skills you've taught your dog, you will be giving them something else to do besides mounting. In the event mounting occurs you may need to interfere, but do so very carefully so you do not further arouse the dog or cause the dog to feel threatened.
When mounting is occurring, if you are concerned that one dog is getting annoyed and can not defend themselves or get away from the humper, step between them and separate them with your body. This is only if the dog has not been taught skills with distractions, and is not responding to your cues. If the humping dog can not calm down on their own and is bothering other dogs, crate them or pull them aside and wait until their arousal level lowers. If the "humper" is not particularly bothering the other dogs - let 'em go for it. Look at it as mother nature's way of giving them an opportunity to practice for sex.
There is evidence that some female dogs exhibit "male" characteristic s, such as marking and mounting, which is believed to be associated with higher levels of testosterone.
Researchers are tossing the whole dominance theory and rank reduction stuff to the wind. The most recent thought is that humping is simply a social behavior/motor pattern that dogs have. All it means is that the dog is excited or in an aroused state (they are hyper). Females do it too. Dogs do not understand rank because they do not relate to the experiences of others. They are self aware but not other aware. They can not understand "you lose, I win." All they relate to is the present (this feels good) and the past (this was reinforcing and felt good before).
Dogs live in the present, but bring their past experiences along with them to determine how they will respond to present circumstances and situations. What they cannot perceive is the future or how to control or influence the future.
Another dog's play style may be too rough for your dog and could end up getting one of them in trouble. A dog's play style cannot be changed. If you are concerned with another dog’s play behavior, you will have to manage your dog and only allow them to play with dogs that have mutual play behavior. You are taking a chance every time you let your dog play with an unfamiliar dog because that unfamiliar dog may misinterpret your dog's behavior as threats rather than as play.
Article Supplied by:
Gina Micciulla
Owner & Trainer
Educating Humans Teaching Dogs
http://www.thepetprofessor.com/articles/article.aspx?id=1878
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I've seen that site before...I caught my 50 lb. daughter Missy riding Sam one night & explained to her that was a no-no...Though Sam was very tolerant & truthfully I was more concerned with his back & joints than the "mounting" going on...I told her "you can get a ride from Samson after we cart train him & he is bigger...On the cart or sleigh though"! :)
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I also left a message on the guest book that if they wanted something to ride buy a pony or a horse
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Okay, I have no problem with someone holding a baby on a dog to get a quick pic. It's somewhat cute. But even then you have to know where to place the baby. Up near the shoulders, never ever on the middle of the back. And by the time the child is 2, they are already too big to be doing that.
But to actaully ride the dog and put all the weight of the child on the dog is just plain cruel. Most of the kids in those photos are WAY too big to even be trying that. And some of the dogs are WAY too small to put any child on. I can't believe the parents think this is okay.
That poor dane puppy. How hard that must be on his back and legs.
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I just signed the guest book. I can't find any negative comments towards the bottom. They are all good comments, which I made a comment about......... .lol
I checked out the videos. I gain some solace in the fact that there is 3 videos of the girl and dane, and she falls off pretty roughly in two of them. ::)
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>:(That REALLY p#$$#$ me off! >:(
I went to the guest book and didn't find any negative comments, so the Jerk must spend a lot of time deleting them.
We should all get together and just deluge him with comments and our opinions of his stupidity, and also the groups that he has links to.
What do the rest of you think?
He doesn't have a life if he thinks that Dog Riding is "CUTE"!
Tulsa and John
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I just checked the guestbook and there are a few negative comments at the bottom. I'm sure they will be deleted as soon as she sees them along with the one I added.
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I would never and have never allowed my children to ride my dogs.
However when thinking of the weight factor these dogs are carrying a dog who earns a backpack/hiking patch has to carry 30% of their own body weight. For a full grown Dane that could be 46 lbs a Saint or Mastiff far more.
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I posted this site to one of my Dane rooms and there's an uproar there too. There have been well over 15 unhappy remarks made in the guestbook and all have been deleted. I emailed the webmaster. No reply. I should have kept the email but I didn't. Stupid hotmail :( I was SO way nicer than I wanted to be. I even suggested if they're that interested in dogs transporting kids, to look up carting. I did rip into them about that blonde girl on the Dane puppy. That kills me. Not in a good way either..
Ang
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I would never and have never allowed my children to ride my dogs.
However when thinking of the weight factor these dogs are carrying a dog who earns a backpack/hiking patch has to carry 30% of their own body weight. For a full grown Dane that could be 46 lbs a Saint or Mastiff far more.
The thing is though, backpacks are made with weight distrobution in mind. They even tell you how to pack the bags. Kids aren't evenly distributed :P
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Hey the site says if your worried about the weight being even have the child ride the dog like a jockey.... ::)
Wonder how many bites have came from this site??
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Hey the site says if your worried about the weight being even have the child ride the dog like a jockey.... ::)
I saw that too. I don't know any jockeys that ride laying flat on their horses though... ;)
And in regards to the bites, just look at how miserable at least 80% of those dogs are. :'(
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Hey the site says if your worried about the weight being even have the child ride the dog like a jockey.... ::)
I saw that too. I don't know any jockeys that ride laying flat on their horses though... ;)
And in regards to the bites, just look at how miserable at least 80% of those dogs are. :'(
LOL I did wonder what kind of jockey they were speaking of.
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>:( That is just an awful site!!!
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Dear Sir or Madam,
I am apalled that you think riding a dog is 'cute' in any way, fashion, or form.
It stresses the dogs, physically, mentally, and behaviorally.
Sorry BPO people, but I don't find anything about this site to be amusimg.
It degrades the work that we put into our animals to make them acceptable to the people who wish to pass laws against our 'Big Dogs"!
How to Ride a Dog is an ignorant statement, by an ignorant individual.
That's my Rant!
John
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Here' all the last post including my own...Lets spread this around to other pet groups!Personal_FullN ame:
guestbook
you a**wipe!! inform people of the damage that can be done to the animals were they meant to be rode
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Personal_FullN ame: D
guestbook
Peopel need to be made aware that riding dogs is very bad for a dogs spine and hips.Dogs were not bred to be "beasts of burden". If someone wants to ride something get a toy horse or buy a real horse or pony or go to someones house to borrow one for the ride. Don't damage a dogs spine or dislocate it's hips and cause it pain.
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Personal_FullN ame: swimmindude
guestbook
whoever wrote these last two messages should stop now. if you dont like it thats fine now bud out.
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Personal_FullN ame: Patty
guestbook
If you want to ride.... buy a horse!!!!!!!!
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Personal_FullN ame: Dog Lover
guestbook
WHAT is wrong with you people? Do you have any idea the damage you can do to a dog by riding it? This is the most ignorant thing I have ever seen, anyone considering doing this should be ashamed of themselves.
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Personal_FullN ame: Trena-madhouse7207@sbcglobal.net
guestbook
Hey "swimmindude" I find it amazing that you would ask people to "butt" out when the actually the ASPCA should be noyified about this. This is inhumane and cruelty to animals and ALL people should be in this. To prevent people like you and this idiot who started this web sight to be stopped!!!! I also find it amazing how all the negative feedback this web sight has gotten has been deleted!!!! I will personally checking into this with your local ASPCA.
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Personal_FullN ame: Trena-madhouse7207@sbcglobal.net
guestbook
TO REPORT SUSPECTED ANIMAL CRUELTY PLEASE CALL: (617) 522-6008 or (800) 628-5808 The MSPCA Law Enforcement Department encourages individuals to contact us to request an investigation of animal abuse. In fact, without the assistance of the public, our mission to prevent cruelty to animals, help those animals in need, and prosecute offenders would be nearly impossible.
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Personal_FullN ame: ASPCA
guestbook
If anyone would care to voice their concern directly to this website's owner, here you go:
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Personal_FullN ame: Michelle Kay
guestbook
The practice of dog riding is harmful to the dog both to it's physical health & to his/her mental well being...becuas e of these two facts it is just asking for a dog to bite that might not otherwise...I urge you to stop encouraging this ignorance
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Yeah!
I just posted to the guest book with my opinion and a slam to 'swimmindude', I do so hope I get a response!
I love a righteous fight!
John
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And I just sent an e-mail to Southen Rock Kennels asking them to abandon the link to this website.
Sometimes an 'old dawg' just needs a good fight to make the juices flow again!
John
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And I just sent an e-mail to Southen Rock Kennels asking them to abandon the link to this website.
Sometimes an 'old dawg' just needs a good fight to make the juices flow again!
John
Go get 'em John!!....Somedays I live for a good "fight" too!...Keeps my life a little more interesting! ;D
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Thanks Gyps,
Let's Howl at the Moon together!
WooooHoooo
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My addition: Since you deleted my first message, I'll try again. Dogs are not a circus sideshow for your cruel amusement. Get a life and stop promoting this cruelty now!!!
they deleted my first message but lets keep bugging them!!!
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That website is the antithesis of everything we are striving to do to make our dogs 'acceptable'.
NO! You can't ride my dog!
They become 'Snappy', angry and aggressive toward the little skin kids, who generaly are trusting and loving, and I won't stand for that.
I worked too hard to get my dog to be loved on by kids.
Tulsa thrives on the little ones attention now.
She used to be very aloof, and would turn away.
Now she walks right upand checks their 'registration',
and lets them love on her.
I'm a Happy Dad!
John
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once again they have deleted all the negative posts. Everyone needs to go there often and sign the guestbook to let everyone know that this ISN'T cute!!
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This is upsetting. I just left a message in the guestbook at that site about how awful riding a dog is and about how he deletes all negative comments. I'm sure my message will not be there tomorrow. I'm looking at Sonny now thinking how horrified he would be if this happened to him.
Mary Lou
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I just signed the guest book. I told them they should be ashamed of themselves. My message was the only negative comment on there. I cant believe how many people signed with "cool site" morons!!!!
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Let's just keep on keepin' on!
He can only delete while he's awake.
And we are global!
So let's pound him until he submits!
This site has no intrinsic value, and caters to the individual that thinks that exploitation is OK.
Excuse me, I have to make another post to his site.
Tulsa
p.s. 'swimmindude' didn't have the 'cajones' to reply to my post, and I left my name and number!
Too bad Chicken S#it sticks to your shoes!
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Let's just keep on keepin' on!
He can only delete while he's awake.
And we are global!
So let's pound him until he submits!
This site has no intrinsic value, and caters to the individual that thinks that exploitation is OK.
Excuse me, I have to make another post to his site.
Tulsa
p.s. 'swimmindude' didn't have the 'cajones' to reply to my post, and I left my name and number!
Too bad Chicken S#it sticks to your shoes!
LOL John!!!...I love a man on a mission!!...Ya' know I want my dogs to beable to give my kids rides too...That's why I am CART TRAINING them!!!...It gives the dogs a sense of working, doesn't hurt them so long as you wait to the proper age to put any weight on & you have a brain to start with!!!...I can't imagine putting my kids on their backs!!...There are other ways that the kids & DOGS will enjoy!!
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Thanks Gyps,
I worked real hard to make Tulsa an acceptable beast.
And at times, a Beast she is, but she has learned to love and accept.
I just get real upset with people who have nothing between their eyes except eyebrows!
Gotta go, time for another post!
I'm gonna bury this Bast%rd like a nasty old bone!
John
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Thanks Gyps,
I worked real hard to make Tulsa an acceptable beast.
And at times, a Beast she is, but she has learned to love and accept.
I just get real upset with people who have nothing between their eyes except eyebrows!
Gotta go, time for another post!
I'm gonna bury this Bast%rd like a nasty old bone!
John
I'm about due back to the ol' guest book too! :D God, I hate that guy! >:(
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Apparently some people just don't 'get it'!
I'm going to start responding to the people who have left their e-addy with their post.
I'm looking forward to the hate mail, and staying one step ahead of the 'Banjo Pickers"!
Gawd, I Love a Good Fight!
John
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My answer to his deleting is open the flood gates, just keep entering your same post over and over again.. His little finger wil ache after deleting everything
Don't forget to post the link at your other pet groups & e-mail it to you dog loving friends, family & co-workers. ;D ...I'm goin' back in! :D
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Daneinsane
You should be proud. Your post is up there now 31 times......... ...lol. Plus my short little diddy at the end.
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I believe Dr. Phil said it best.
"Lets Do It People!"
We can win, not by overcoming, but by overwhelming!
So... "Let's Do It People!"
gotta go for another post.
p.s. love you all!
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My latest: Do you actually own dogs?...If so you obviously haven't taken the time to undertand the dog psychie...I wonder how many children have been bitten while their parents tried to get the photo oppertunity you encourage so ignorantly...Y ou are really lucky you haven't been sued for damage cause to child or dog in encouraging this ignorance...Pl ease please shut down your site & use your time to volunteer at a local shelter & try to help "fix' the dogs that this kind of abuse has damaged.
& this is just scary...I've heard that Bulldogs have serious issues with hips.
Personal_FullN ame: monkeysmumma04
guestbook
the pictures and the teaching kids to ride are so cute and as soon as my bulldog is big enough im gonna have to use the info from the teaching to ride part it is really cute :'(
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Yes, I commented on the bulldog entry on my first post that was deleted.
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I've jumped on the bandwagon too. >:( That site is appalling, and the moronic people signing the guestbook are even more so.
Stella
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I believe Dr. Phil said it best.
"Lets Do It People!"
We can win, not by overcoming, but by overwhelming!
So... "Let's Do It People!"
gotta go for another post.
p.s. love you all!
We love you too John!...Your enthusiastic disdain for this idiot & his equally idiotic site is contagious! :)
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Yes!
Don't let this fool think he has a cool site.
Bury him with posts that will make his life miserable.
We are family, and we "know" what is good for our animals.
And he ain't it.
Gotta go and remind him how TRULY DUMB he be.
Tulsa and her Daddy
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Yay!
Someone posted behind me and filled a LOT of space. Don't know who it was but I gotta love 'em!
Nothin but bad VIBES.
Like Arnold said,"I'll be back!"
John
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something may be up, I couldn't connect to the site this morning.
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I was able to connect, but all of our posts have magically disappeared and there is no longer an option listed to sign the guestbook. Too bad he has entirely missed the point of everything we all posted.
Stella
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Hi Everyone,
You know (or should know) dogs are not capable of supporting someone on on their back. Yes, some of the larger breeds are capable of carry saddlebag type packs, but that is a different weight distribution. Larger dogs can be trained to pull a cart, depending on the load you may need a team of two. Minature horses are about the size of a large dog breed, average 300 pounds. These horses are not recommended for riding, only pulling carts. Horses have the build to be ridden, not dogs, and when the smaller breeds are not recommended for riding....I believe we can logically come to the conclusion that riding a dog is not a good thing. Injury and long term health issues develop when you use your body in ways it was not designed to function. Why would anyone think differently for a dog or any other animal for that matter?
Deena
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Well I dont let my children ride my dogs. My husband held my daughter over one of my dogs while takeing a picture but there was no pressure on the dog. We have told them you can't ride them they aren't made for that. I have had more problems with children gettin on and off the school buses. Boys were cruel to my dogs by throwing rocks through my fence and scrapeing sticks. I did get on to the children and so did my aunt who lives next to me. I have seen some issues with my male great dane towards young boys which i have had to work with him on. Sometimes cruel children can affect a dogs behavior and personality.
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Another reason for me to prefer animals over people.
Carolyn
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I just went to this guys YAHOO pet forum and he's put a RANT up about his Guest Book being spammed by BPO!
BOO HOO!
He's still clueless.
John
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Funny, I thought guest books were for positive and negitive comments on a website content. If you can't stand the heat puffball, get out of the kitchen!
Stella
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I just went to this guys YAHOO pet forum and he's put a RANT up about his Guest Book being spammed by BPO!
BOO HOO!
He's still clueless.
John
Yahoo pet forum eh?...heheheheheh ehe...Be back later. ;) ;D
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I posted this reply several times, but like everyone elses it was deleted
To be honest I feel like I have just witnessed an act of vile cruelty, I have a great dane and she is my best friend, not a horse, YOU DO NOT RIDE DOGS, what is wrong with you? There is nothing cute about teaching your child to abuse and animal,and nothing human about photographing that abuse.
Great Danes are prone to hip problems, yet you go and put a child on the back on one and in your ignorance you call it a 'Cute' I think you are sick people, who are under the misconception that your doing something smart. I so glad I don't own your brians you really are worthless and cruel. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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It looks like the guest book is back open for our input...There's a whole string of negative feedback at the end of it right now....Also here is the idiots post at his Yahoo group.
As some of you have heard from me in the room, over the last few days,
my guestbook on my website has been deluged with negative comments and
threats. At 1 point, I even found my name, address, and telephone
number in one of the comments. At first, I thought it was my whacko
ex - and you know who I mean - trying her crap again. Well guess what
I learned - I was dead wrong. A friend of mine showed me this from
another forum - http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,3602.0.html
These are the people who've been spamming/ flooding my guestbook, not
her. How they got my full name, address, etc I have no clue - but
I've heard of an Internet database where you can find that info.
Anyone else heard of it, and where it can be found?
Anyways, I've deactivated the signing of my guestbook for now, till I
can find a way to set it up so I approve all comments before they';re
logged. If anyone has any good ideas to help me out on this, please
let me know. Thanks.
Veld
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Yeah but he/she has taken away the sign guestbook facility. aparently ahe wants to vet answers first, sad,sick,and silly, >:( >:( :o :(
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I think we should let him "Duck and Run" for awhile.
It would do him good to rethink his position on "Riding Dogs"!
Here's a picture that I took yesterday.
Tulsas' feelings toward this guy.
Good thing she's only gnawing on his leg!
John
OOps guess I'd better get the pic ready to post!
Back in a minute!
(Anyone else have Senior Moments?)
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Here we go!
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This person couldn't careless about their animals... or he'd be worried about back injury.
The whole thing is a sad affair. Good to know not everyone is a cruel as some people. Teaching Children it's OK to abuse their dogs! Allowing Kids to abuse animals.. it's discusting.
AND then the nerve to call all of us CRAZY! Whatever!
Atleast I know them and their friends are reading our posts here. As i read about it on their Yahoo Board. Don't know if they know there are all sorts of links all over the net about them??
I'm a member here and have been for some time.. but I wasn't even made aware of the post here until i read about their Yahoo board on yet another Giant Breed Dog board!
This person has no remorse.. so what can you do? Instead of spamming them, which will do nothing really.. We need to educate as many people ( like we are doing here) about how cruel this is ...
There are other ways you can have fun with your dogs.. Like teaching your dogs and your kids to CART. That puts NO pressure on the back and is just as fun for the kids!
Some People!
Angie C.
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I think he said it best.
His whacko ex!
She is probably a sensitive, caring woman, who dumped this T^&D, becacause she realized what an insensitive B&^**rd he truly is.
I hope she got the house and the SUV!
Too bad she didn't get the dog!
But then look on the bright side.
Loser!
Wanna Play?
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O.k...Another chuckle for me this morning compliments of you, John...I was having a bad morning...Thre e of your posts amused me greatly!...I was going back to bed & I still am but I'm going back to bed in a much better mood than I would have!...& yes, this guy probably married a wonderful woman who woke up sober the next morning & was aghast at what she married!...lol!
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From: "Maria" <angel_bear_71@...>
Date: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: My guestbook's being spammed angel_bear_71
Offline
Send Email
Tim I wouldn't be surprised if Jen had something to do with these
people finding out about you're website you know how she is....I am
an animal lover and kids riding big breed dogs like horses IS NOT
cruel...Those people need to back up and regroup....
DFTHYFBT&E Maria[/glow]
This was a message in his Yahoo group board. These people are complete idiots....How can they say that it is not dangerous. There is a reason they don't sell tack for dogs!!!!
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>:( i agree this darn fool needs to wake up a dog cant tell you yes or no ride me its cruel and im turning him in ASAP he needs shut down,
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Wow, for someone who doesn't know what theyre talking about you sure can run your mouth cantcha? In case you didn't notice this is a BIG DOG board, and we specialize in BIG BREEDS, some of us for over 20 years. I happened to write Mr Tim. a very nice email where I said that although I didn't agree with his site, I would at least appreciate if he only posted pictures that followed the rules that he himself set up. A 60+ kid on a Great Dane PUPPY that is struggling to get away from her is, by his own guidelines, cruel. Yet he still posted the pictures. I also gave him documentation on carting sites trying to be helpful. I did this before the barrage on his guestbook, yet he never had the decency to write me back. I never even posted to the guestbook.
Also, we are NOT the only site that is posting to that guestbook. I know at least 4 others off the top of my head. So don't go blaming us for posting his personal info. I don't recall anyone stating that they were the ASPCA, so dont know where you got that from. Also, I would like to know what experience you have with Giant breed dogs that have been ridden by children (UNDER 30 POUNDS), and suffer emotional scars from it. Have you ever helped rehabilitate these dogs? Don't mouth off because your buddy said he was being wronged. If you have no experience, which from your post I'm not thinking you do, then you can't say anything because you don't KNOW anything.
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I know the man who runs this site and he is in no way abusive or anything. It seems to me folks need to get a life if all you can do is harrass man with a decent website. Anybody with any common sense would know not to put a kid on a dog who was sick, or ailing or vicious. I went to vet tech school and have beena foster mom for 9 years for both cats and German Shepherds. I asked my instructor at school about this last night after seeing the posts you folks put in his guest book. She said as long as the dog is in good health, not mean or having a tendency to bite, and as long as it wasn't for a long period of time, that there was no danger to the dog. And if you check you will see most of the time any "dog riding" is done its just long enough to get a photo shot, and/or a small short video. It's not like they are riding the dog to timbuktu.
And you can't blame tim for folks who "abuse" the dogs by letting huge children ride on them. He is just posting photos and you may notice that many of them are so old that they date as far back as the 1920's.
Get a life folks!
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:'( this guy tim really thinks hes doing a good thing maybe he needs help them poor dogs well i live real close t him so im turning him in first thing
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boxersrule...t urning a man in for having a website with kids sitting on dogs backs? i'm sorry what would the charge be?
The ASPCA and any humane society would probably laugh in your face. He is not personally committing any offense.
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wel we will just see i bet to differ there hes a sick person for even saying its ok ;D i tell ya he dont need pets he needs his head checked
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And you can't blame tim for folks who "abuse" the dogs by letting huge children ride on them. He is just posting photos and you may notice that many of them are so old that they date as far back as the 1920's.
I'm talking in particular about the latest photos on his site of a HUGE blonde girl, about 6 or 7 years old, trying to get on a fawn great dane puppy who is scared to death and trying to run away. Like I said I was nice about it and just pointed out that it wouldn't be such a big deal if he didn't set up guidelines and then promote people who broke them all. He has 3 videos of it too.
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You are an idiot then...boxersr ule...turning a man in for having a website with kids sitting on dogs backs? i'm sorry what would the charge be?
The ASPCA and any humane society would probably laugh in your face. He is not personally committing any offense.
I think you, like Tim, have overlooked what everyone here is saying. Though he might not personally be committing any crime, he is endorsing the riding of animals by kids which is cruel.
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Ummmsorry but I do know what I'm talking about and I posted As for ASPCA here's proof
Personal_FullN ame: ASPCA
guestbook
If anyone would care to voice their concern directly to this website's owner, here you go:
Now you tell another lie.... I have dealt with morons like you all my life and like I've done to the ones in the past I bury them and move on so Have a wonderful day and when you realize you are wrong then go play in traffic
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First off let me tell you how intimidated I am by some anonymous busy body on the internet. I'm shivering in my boots Honey. As for you knowing what your'e talking about tell me, do you work in rescue? Do you breed? Are you a vet specializing in Giant breeds?
I didn't tell a lie I said "I DO NOT RECALL SOMEONE CLAIMING TO BE THE ASPCA" Maybe if your buddy left the guestbook listings up longer than 30 seconds someone could read them and check them out. Also a screen name doesn't mean that that individual is claiming to be that person. I could put Angelina Jolie as my screen name does that mean I'm her? Oh that's right it means that I'm lying trying to make people think that I am.
Call me a moron? You don't know any more about me than I do about you. For all you know I could be a member of MENSA or I could be a felon with a taste for blood. Not very swift there sunshine.
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rennogs,
It IS cruel and dangerous for these dogs and for the children to encourage this "activity". I have dogs as well as horses and I can tell you, there is a SIGNIGICANT difference in their structure (these words may be too big for you, so let me translate....d ogs are not horses!) A couple of important observation that backs up our arguments are: you don't see (normal) people riding dogs, they don't sell tack for dogs, and this is not an advertised function of dogs. I used to be a vet tech as well, and I can tell you that neither I, or any vet I worked for would ever condone this as an acceptable function of a dog.
As far as your claim that Tim is not responsible for those breaking his suggested rules on acceptable weight ratios....if he is going to post the picture then he assumes a certain amount of responsibility for further encouraging ways to make an, already, cruel situation even worse!! Ultimately, an animal is an animal and there is no way to know 100% of the time how these dogs will react. Working at the vet clinic I saw numerous "family dogs" put down because something or someone made them snap.
You all bear a responsibility for endorsing this and any children and/or dogs injured as a result of viewing your website and following the "instructions"...well lets just say I hope the lawsuits start pouring in.
I wonder what PETA would say about this as well....I am going to forward the link to their offices.
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Well all I know is Tim is not responsible for any of the photos on his site and that the bashing on each side needs to stop....I have said somethings that were not right but I posted my thoughts on the situtation.... I have checked with the local & US authorities that a child 30 lbs or less riding on a big breed dog will not harm them if only on for no more that 10 minutes with dog approval. I have read through most of your message boards and you are all trying to do good and I will not bash you for that...
I'm an animal lover myself and I rather save an animal first before a human....
Don't Forget To Hug Your Furbabies Today & Everyday
Legends & Brat
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He is responsible for the pictures if he is posting them!
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I am surprised by the content of your post to hear you say you went to tech school...Did you gradute?...What is your current position?...Are you a vet tech?...I am planning on cart training my dogs...This is natural for some breeds of dogs to PULL weight...But I will wait until they are 2 to put even a lightweight pulling cart behind them & until they are 3 & fully developed phisically to put any weight on at all...Why, because giant breed dogs don't fully mature in the bone & joints until they are 3...I am positive beyond any doubt that many of the dogs on your hero's web site are technically PUPPIES!!!!!!!!!!!....lets just note that never in the history of dogs & what they were bred for is giving a child a piggy back ride for no matter how mcuh distance noted...HHHMMM MMMMMMMMMMM... I wonder of there is a reason for this?...So, from any logical point of view riding a dog would be unnatural for the said dog & also most definitely not in the dogs best interest so far as his/her healthy body is concerned...No w, lets move on to the psychie of a dog...Have any background in this area?...As I previously stated it is unnatural for a dog to carry weight on it's back...A "mounted" dog is a dog who is being forced to submit mentally...If the said dog feels he or she is a "higher status dog" than the "dog" mounting it it will bite or fight back...if the dog is a "lower status dog" in his/her mind...He/She will submit but it causes damage to the dogs' mind & may make the dog uncomfortable around the child who was "riding" it....I am so sorry for your lack of insight as pertaining to what dogs really are.
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OKay if you want to believe that Tim is responsible for the photos that other people have sent him so be it....Tim is no way a bad horrible man you all think he is...I have seen worse sites than Tim's that have adults riding big breed dogs which is 100% cruel but from the sources I recieved 99.9% of the photos on Tim's site are not cruel...
If you all don't like his site then don't go to it...Solve the problem
I'm done with the topic of Tim's website....
Legends
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OKay if you want to believe that Tim is responsible for the photos that other people have sent him so be it....Tim is no way a bad horrible man you all think he is...I have seen worse sites than Tim's that have adults riding big breed dogs which is 100% cruel but from the sources I recieved 99.9% of the photos on Tim's site are not cruel...
If you all don't like his site then don't go to it...Solve the problem
I'm done with the topic of Tim's website....
Legends
What else do you want to talk about? ;D
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Well all I know is Tim is not responsible for any of the photos on his site and that the bashing on each side needs to stop....I have said somethings that were not right but I posted my thoughts on the situtation.... I have checked with the local & US authorities that a child 30 lbs or less riding on a big breed dog will not harm them if only on for no more that 10 minutes with dog approval. I have read through most of your message boards and you are all trying to do good and I will not bash you for that...
I'm an animal lover myself and I rather save an animal first before a human....
Don't Forget To Hug Your Furbabies Today & Everyday
Legends & Brat
I appreciate this post. :) I hope you understand where we're coming from. Legalities don't really factor into the issue here (In our eyes), more about what's good for the dog. I have fostered Danes that are terrified of kids because they tried to ride them. It is SO much work building that trust back up. Also, as we've posted here, weight distrobution is key, a child just can't distribute weight properly. When we see this site all we see is "This is great, I can't wait to do this" and while there are guidlines on the site about the "Proper" way to do it, the people who don't follow them are still glorified. If I was an uneducated person and I saw it, I would say "Well that big kid is riding, how come mine can't?" Then you go to the guestbook and all it is is these positive comments from people saying what a great idea it is, well it's unnerving. Thank you for being civilized.
Ang
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I understand.... . I was raised with Dobermans and had to put the last one to sleep on December 2, 2004.....He was 15 years old
If there's anything you want to know about me feel free to email me
Don't Forget To Hug Your Furbabie Today & Everyday
Legends
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OKay if you want to believe that Tim is responsible for the photos that other people have sent him so be it....Tim is no way a bad horrible man you all think he is...I have seen worse sites than Tim's that have adults riding big breed dogs which is 100% cruel but from the sources I recieved 99.9% of the photos on Tim's site are not cruel...
If you all don't like his site then don't go to it...Solve the problem
I'm done with the topic of Tim's website....
Legends
Not going to Tim's site does not solve the probelm at all. :'( & so there's "worse" out there...Does that make him less wrong? :(
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http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1661&S=1&SourceID=47
I googled "Ride a dog" and found this. Look at #17
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::) Some people don't get it and never will.
No point in even bothering with them.
When they kill their dog by having their kids break it's back... they will either get "it" or they will just get another dog.
It's sad. :'(
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I sent a personal message to LEGENDS, asking her not to support this site or it's webmaster, or the advocation of riding big dogs, I invited her to join us as a friend and a member who would be welcome. I do believe that she agrees with us that DOG RIDING is cruel. I feel that she is a loving, caring pet owner, who may be a bit confused!
John and Tulsa
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I also signed this moron's guestbook, but I noticed that after you submit your comment, that it gives you a little message stating that your response will be given to this idiot for approval... I sent another one to him telling him to be a "real man" an post all comments, good or bad. Let's just see if he has the guts to do it. What on earth do these people think that they are doing ??? I don't care if it is kids or babies, the only thing that should ridden is a horse or pony.... NOT DOGS. Please, let me meet this idiot walking down the street and just let him try and ride my dog: He will ride an ambulance to the hospital trying to get my foot removed from his butt >:( >:( >:(
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Ok, so it has been said that this okayed by local authorities... . who is game for faxing info to the local vets, PETA, and obtaining a list of "the authorites" who gave their approval to be submitted to the vets, PETA, and the state newspapers. (After all, you never know what they will do with it on a slow newsday.)
Let's organize and see what we can accomplish.
Deena and Sofia
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Wow, I haven't added anything to this yet, as I feel that everyone has already spoken the exact words I feel. But I feel that I have to add my own 2 cents worth. From the first day that this topic has been started I have been signing Tim's guestbook. In rational and polite ways I explain the horrors of this do called 'dog riders society'. I will not stop, it's the very least that I can do to make him daily go through my little rant. Everyday he will have to be reminded of the dangers involved in what he endorses. Putting aside the dangers to the dogs for a moment, please Legend, remember that this is putting the children at grave risk for getting a dog bite. Children WILL be children, and no matter how informed they are of riding a dog only under supervision, at least ONE will attempt this without supervision, and at least ONE will be bitten. This is endagering both the dog for health reasons and the child. Under no circumstances can I see a positive light on what is going on here.
Unfortunatley when I was a child my parents thought it was cute to place me and my sister on our 140lb Newf cross. He was a wonderful dog, and I give him all of the credit in the world for showing me the love giant breeds can give. When he was only five years old he had to euthanized due to the extreme displasia in his hips. I learned a harsh lesson that resulted in me loosing my best friend when I was only five years old (we were the same age). This is not a story I am proud of, but it is appropriate to be told here. Chauncey (my childhood pal) was a gentle soul who deserved much more than children riding him like pony. I still think of him often even though so much time has passed.
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Just wanted to let ya all know that I've looked thru your site more and more and I see how devoted you are to animals...I love this place I really do
I'm building a website for my furbabies & myself I just started it so there's not a whole lot on it yet here's the link http://www.geocities.com/angel_bear_71
If anyone has any ideas please feel free to email me
John- Thank You for the lovely email....
Don't Forget To Hug Your Furbabies Today & Everyday(DFTHYFBT&E)
Love & Licks
Legends & Brat
(Brat) Katie JoJo is in the photo
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Okay JennEast,
It's just us for now. Sofia will write something to send to the vets this afternoon. We'll post it and give everyone a chance for input. We'll send it out tomrrow. Could you find out who the local authorities are who okayed this? I'd like their names and positions. They need to be included in our statement. We also need a volunteer to contact PETA tomorrow. Anybody out there donate to them or know a contact with PETA? We should wait to get responses from the local vets and PETA before we try to "educate the local authorities in the error of their ways", but we'll be ready to go when necessary.
Deena
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Hey, has everyone looked at the veterinary website that Blair posted? Somebody should email that to the Dog-Rider-Society guy (if nobody has yet) and ask him to read with with an open heart for animals (and children for that matter). I'm sure at this point he is so defensive that it might be impossible to get through to him, but if he is truly a man who cares about dogs, then he will hopefully come to understanding. A true animal lover would never recommend anything that was harmful to an animal, right?
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Just wanted to let everyone know I have left the Pet Owners Forum group and Dog Riders Society as well....I posted on an earlier message I was done talking about that site but everyone wants to keep dragging it on well I'm done with it so please let's all go on ..
We all have our opinions on the topic but that doesn't mean Mr Tim is going to do anything or not that's completely up to him...
well that's it for me....Please don't hold anything against me for posting this
DFTHYFBT&E
Love & Licks
Legends & Brat
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WTG Legends!
I, for one, am so happy that you are no longer a supporter of that site. I don't think anyone wants to assume that Tim is a cruel, heartless person....we just want him to educate himself on the dangers of that which he promotes, not only to the health and well being of the dogs....but the safety of the children as well. I cannot imagine Tim, or anyone else involved with the creation of this wants to bear the burden of a child who is injured, disfigured or killed because he/she was taught it was okay to ride a dog (which in dog language translates to an issue of dominance.)
Regarding the statements about the local authorities, I have a close friend that is a police officer and I asked him about this. He told me that they are not trained or instructed on that subject (he said he is not the ASPCA :P)!! Anyways, if this was said it was a completely uneducated evaluation. I have had horses that were were unable to SAFELY carry 30-40% of their weight. Even if this "sport" were acceptable...y ou cannot make a blanket statement such as his dog-child ratios.
Anyways, welcome Legends! I am pretty new here too, but so far everyone is extremely warm and welcoming.
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I'm not posting on the topic, but wanted to extend a simple welcome to Legends and say we are happy to meet you-
Stella, Raven,Merlin and Strider
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First off I wanted to welcome Legends as well. It was my intentiont o write an email last night but somethine else came up that needed my attention and then..... well then I fell asleep.
I also wanted to say don't bother with PETA. The other avenues you discussed are wonderful ideas, but in my experience PETA is a bunch of loons. They don't think anyone should OWN pets that they should live free (Perhaps some of you remember members of PETA letting a herd of show dogs loose?). They have gone to colleges promoting alcohol over milk (Because milking cows is mean and taking advantage of them.) There are many other instances that I could go into, but I won't. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up.
Ang
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I am all about a college that encourages alcohol over milk ;D.....until my daughter goes to college....the n I need to know where the milk one is!!
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Just wanted to let everyone know I have left the Pet Owners Forum group and Dog Riders Society as well....I posted on an earlier message I was done talking about that site but everyone wants to keep dragging it on well I'm done with it so please let's all go on ..
We all have our opinions on the topic but that doesn't mean Mr Tim is going to do anything or not that's completely up to him...
well that's it for me....Please don't hold anything against me for posting this
DFTHYFBT&E
Love & Licks
Legends & Brat
Legends, I am happy to hear this!...& I am really happy to welcome you to BPO!!...I have two BIG paws who are Great Pyrenees...Sam son turned 1 in July & Pippin is 7 months...I hope you'll enjoy it here!
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Pardon me, but I can no longer view Mr. Veldboon's adress, which was formerly listed on this thread. Do you know what city he lives in? Perhaps someone could pm me so that I can send a letter I am writing to vets in that area.
Sofia
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We just wanted to say THANK YOU (from Brat Arf Arf) for the warm welcomes....We believe we will enjoy this site and the people here
Is there anyone in or around Indiana? I was thinking of having a gathering..... Please tell me whatcha think of that idea?
For all who are in the path of Hurricane Rita....You're all in our Prayers
DFTHYFBT&E
Love & Licks
Legends & Brat
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We are in Chicago, more or less. I think there are some indiana folks around though.
Stella
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GR8DAME ...Is that a dobie? I love dobies....Was raised around them.....Well I'm 3 hours South of ya i Lafayette....D o you have yahoo messenger? If so my ID is angel_bear_71 Maybe we can get together sometime...
DFTHYFBT&E
Love & Licks
Legends & Brat
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No yahoo, but you can PM me anytime, just click on my name, get my profile and click on personal message. I check in here off and on every day.
Raven is my 9 year old dobie, merlin is my 4 year old dane and Strider is a nine month old dane/irish wolfhound. We have a full house.
Stella
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Here it is:
September 21, 2005
To Whom It May Concern:
The riding of dogs is currently being promoted by certain people, most noticeably on a website: http://www.dogriderssociety.com, owned by Mr. Tim Veldboom of (unknown town to be filled in),Wisconsin, although there are others. This website promotes the riding of dogs by children, by posting photographs, videotape clippings, and written stories about these rides. There are webpages with collections of these, in addition to one about “Teaching a Kid to Ride a Dog.” Despite the recommendation found on the website that a dog can carry only 20% of its own weight, there are videotape clippings and photographs of large, older children appearing to weigh well over 40 lbs. riding small dogs. In particular, the videotapes of the pit bulls and the young Great Dane show children riding dogs when they are far too large for their dogs. Despite the recommendation, the presence of such pictures and videotape clippings on the website can only be taken as approval.
This, if permitted to occur more than once or twice, could conceivably cause serious damage to these dogs or, even worse, the children. The Great Dane, for example, shown in the videotapes, does not even appear to have finished growing; if this is the case, his bones could be severely damaged by the trauma of carrying a girl upon his back. He is also quite nervous and appears to be afraid, a situation in which dogs have been known to bite in self-defense. Even mature dogs should not have a significant amount of weight placed upon them for any length of time, excepting a properly fitted backpack. (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1661&S=1&SourceID=47)
Such actions may even constitute abuse, in the sense of using something contrary to its intended use, as dogs’ basic structure is unsuitable to bear weight. They differ from animals capable of bearing weight, such as horses, in that their lumbosacral joint is quite flexible and even their backs flex when running, whereas horses have a much less flexible joint that allows far the back to flex far less. [Susan E. Harris, Horse Gaits, Balance and Movement (New York, New York: Howell Book House, 2003): pp. 23-24] Thus, the practice of riding dogs may result in injury to the animal’s spine.
This practice needs to be discouraged and spoken against, particularly by those people who have greater authority in the eyes of pet owners. Veterinarians, in particular, have the obligation to inform their clients of the dangers of such practices. It is my hope that they do, and that neither dogs nor children are injured as a result of this website and similar ones.
Sincerely,
Sofia Arango
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Sofia
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I like it Sofia. It is very calm and intelligent, with good references.
I can't imagine what the OFA would have to say about all this! I bet they have a lot of medical knowledge on the dangers of dog-riding, too.
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Here it is:
September 21, 2005
To Whom It May Concern:
The riding of dogs is currently being promoted by certain people, most noticeably on a website: http://www.dogriderssociety.com, owned by Mr. Tim Veldboom of (unknown town to be filled in),Wisconsin, although there are others. This website promotes the riding of dogs by children, by posting photographs, videotape clippings, and written stories about these rides. There are webpages with collections of these, in addition to one about “Teaching a Kid to Ride a Dog.” Despite the recommendation found on the website that a dog can carry only 20% of its own weight, there are videotape clippings and photographs of large, older children appearing to weigh well over 40 lbs. riding small dogs. In particular, the videotapes of the pit bulls and the young Great Dane show children riding dogs when they are far too large for their dogs. Despite the recommendation, the presence of such pictures and videotape clippings on the website can only be taken as approval.
This, if permitted to occur more than once or twice, could conceivably cause serious damage to these dogs or, even worse, the children. The Great Dane, for example, shown in the videotapes, does not even appear to have finished growing; if this is the case, his bones could be severely damaged by the trauma of carrying a girl upon his back. He is also quite nervous and appears to be afraid, a situation in which dogs have been known to bite in self-defense. Even mature dogs should not have a significant amount of weight placed upon them for any length of time, excepting a properly fitted backpack. (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1661&S=1&SourceID=47)
Such actions may even constitute abuse, in the sense of using something contrary to its intended use, as dogs’ basic structure is unsuitable to bear weight. They differ from animals capable of bearing weight, such as horses, in that their lumbosacral joint is quite flexible and even their backs flex when running, whereas horses have a much less flexible joint that allows far the back to flex far less. [Susan E. Harris, Horse Gaits, Balance and Movement (New York, New York: Howell Book House, 2003): pp. 23-24] Thus, the practice of riding dogs may result in injury to the animal’s spine.
This practice needs to be discouraged and spoken against, particularly by those people who have greater authority in the eyes of pet owners. Veterinarians, in particular, have the obligation to inform their clients of the dangers of such practices. It is my hope that they do, and that neither dogs nor children are injured as a result of this website and similar ones.
Sincerely,
Sofia Arango
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Sofia
That looks very good Sophia!...You might want to add a few words about the psychological aspect of what it does to a dog?
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Hi, I am also from Pet Owners Forum and new here, all I have to say on this matter is Yes I can see your point on dog riding can deffinitely endanger the dog and the child. I lost my and my best friend two years ago, a 200 lb lab/malamute cross, he grew up with my children and I have to admit yes there were occassions my youngest child did try to ride him but bailey didnt allow it usually by one laying down or knocking my son off, after a couple of times kid got the message nope bailey wont tolerate me on his back, but bailey did allow the kids to grab his tail when swimming and pulled them around, and on some occasssions bailey was known to grab kid by life jacket and pull him into shore, lol along with some little people that werent his people frustrating a few parents lol anyways I now own a jack who what he lacks in size he deffinitely makes up for in personality, someday I hope to own another big dog I think cause Bailey was such a snuggle bear .... nice meeting you all I will be back lots
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Welcome! I don't have a thing to add to this topic....it's all been said much better than I could do, but am happy to welcome you to the group!
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Hi, I am also from Pet Owners Forum and new here, all I have to say on this matter is Yes I can see your point on dog riding can deffinitely endanger the dog and the child. I lost my and my best friend two years ago, a 200 lb lab/malamute cross, he grew up with my children and I have to admit yes there were occassions my youngest child did try to ride him but bailey didnt allow it usually by one laying down or knocking my son off, after a couple of times kid got the message nope bailey wont tolerate me on his back, but bailey did allow the kids to grab his tail when swimming and pulled them around, and on some occasssions bailey was known to grab kid by life jacket and pull him into shore, lol along with some little people that werent his people frustrating a few parents lol anyways I now own a jack who what he lacks in size he deffinitely makes up for in personality, someday I hope to own another big dog I think cause Bailey was such a snuggle bear .... nice meeting you all I will be back lots
Welcome to BPO!...We are happy to have you here!!...I'm Chelle & my BIG pawed guys are Samson who is 1 yr. & Pippin who is 7 months...Both Great Pyrenees...I hope you enjoy it here as mucha s I do!!!
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Welcome!
I have a JRT as well (Remmy) and a toy poodle (Bogart) and my new baby Tonka, a great dane. Everyone here is so great and supportive. Glad you came! ;D
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Hey Gypsy,
I asked Sofia to avoid that for now, as there are no "specific" journal articles regarding the phych. effects when riding dogs. We would need to use analogies with other physically stressful events. First, I'd like to convince them with the proper docs that this is a physically stressful event and will lead to medical problems should it continue. Then once they accept this we can argue from with documented evidence of the reactions of dogs to a repeated stressful and painful stimulous. Although this is a no brainer for most of us...it is not for them. So, we are taking one step at a time....don't want to give them more than they can handle at once now.
Let me know if you think we should start a new thread with Sofia's letter for additional input. We can do that as well as ask for everyone to indicate if they would like their name and town added to the letter. Everyone is welcome once completed to send it to their local vets as well. The greater number of vets who this suddenly becomes an issue for, the greater chance this could be addressed at a national meeting. Happens in dentistry and medicine all the time.
Deena
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I replyed to this in a p.m....All great ideas!...& ty!!!
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this thread is too long for me to read....but i just wanted to say that i wrote him a nice up yours letter. then another one. it put a smile on my face for the night...can you ask for anything more?
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I'm not going to pick on this guy anymore. We've gained some great friends through his RANT about BPO. I am happy that we have picked up new friends who understand our distaste for his wedsite.
I would welcome him as a member!
But I would like to see the advocacy of dog riding downplayed to the point of nonexistsent!
C'mon Tim!
We've got a lot of Love Here!
John