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BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : Good Hope September 22, 2005, 05:59:24 AM

: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 22, 2005, 05:59:24 AM
Here is the letter:

September 21, 2005

To Whom It May Concern:

   The riding of dogs is currently being promoted by certain people, most notably on a website: http://www.dogriderssociety.com, owned by Mr. Tim Veldboom of (unknown town to be filled in),Wisconsin, although there are others.  This website promotes the riding of dogs by children, by posting photographs, videotape clippings, and written stories about these rides.  There are webpages with collections of these, in addition to one about “Teaching a Kid to Ride a Dog.”  Despite the recommendation found on the website that a dog can carry only 20% of its own weight, there are videotape clippings and photographs of large, older children appearing to weigh well over 40 lbs. riding small dogs.  In particular, the videotapes of the pit bulls and the young Great Dane show children riding dogs when they are far too large for their dogs.  Despite the recommendation, the presence of such pictures and videotape clippings on the website can only be taken as approval.
   This, if permitted to occur more than once or twice, could conceivably cause serious damage to these dogs or, even worse, the children.  The Great Dane, for example, shown in the videotapes, does not even appear to have finished growing; if this is the case, his bones could be severely damaged by the trauma of carrying a girl upon his back.  He is also quite nervous and appears to be afraid, a situation in which dogs have been known to bite in self-defense.  Even mature dogs should not have a significant amount of weight placed upon them for any length of time, excepting a properly fitted backpack. (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1661&S=1&SourceID=47)
   Such actions may even constitute abuse, in the sense of using something contrary to its intended use, as dogs’ basic structure is unsuitable to bear weight.  They differ from animals capable of bearing weight, such as horses, in that their lumbosacral joint is quite flexible and even their backs flex when running, whereas horses have a much less flexible joint that allows far the back to flex far less. [Susan E. Harris, Horse Gaits, Balance and Movement (New York, New York: Howell Book House, 2003): pp. 23-24]  Thus, the practice of riding dogs may result in injury to the animal’s spine.
   This practice needs to be discouraged and spoken against, particularly by those people who have greater authority in the eyes of pet owners.  Veterinarians, in particular, have the obligation to inform their clients of the dangers of such practices.  It is my hope that they do, and that neither dogs nor children are injured as a result of this website and similar ones.

Sincerely,

Sofia Arango of Mission, Texas


Any suggestions to improve the content or polish the expression of this letter would be appreciated.  If you would like to add your name to this letter or copy it to give to vets or trainers, that would also be appreciated.

Sofia

(Edited to change one word in the letter.)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Scootergirl September 22, 2005, 06:02:11 AM
Wow! I think it's excellent. Very professional.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 22, 2005, 06:17:53 AM
Sounds good!...You can add my name if you wish...Do you wnat that info. here or in a p.m.?
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 22, 2005, 06:19:51 AM
Gypsy, you are welcome to post it here or p.m. us, whichever you prefer.

Sofia
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 22, 2005, 10:37:06 AM
bump, let's try to keep this fresh to receive lots of input and signatures

Deena
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 23, 2005, 07:44:29 PM
Come on... only 3 people with input or signature? Please pm if you would like to have your name and town added to letter we are send out. Please send this letter to your local vets. We need to make as much noise as possible for this to get any attention. No sense in ranting or raving about something you think is a problem if you are not willing to do something about it.

Deena
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 23, 2005, 09:33:41 PM
Well like we said before we're done with Tim's website topic We're still friends but we no longer belong to his group or website
        DFTHYFBT&E
                            Love & Licks
                                                Legends & Brat
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 23, 2005, 10:12:31 PM
Yes, everyone here is very happy that you have made the decision to leave the group and join us here. You have alot to share with us. I respectfully understand your position. However, this is NOT personal, not about flaming your friend, nor will this topic disappear because you are finished with it. This letter is about educating the Veternarians and general public about the foolishness and potentially deliterious effects of such ignorant behavior.  Even if this letter continues to receive little attention in this forum, I will take it elsewhere. I am always amazed at how people are willing to rant, rave and talk big, but when it comes to trying to make a productive change when a negative situation presents itself, they walk away. I guess that is human nature, but it also speaks volumes for personal integrity.

As I said, I will keep bumping this letter until Monday in an attempt to obtain more signatures and a commitment from those to fax a copy of the letter to their local vets. I will try to get this sent to as many Vets, and local ASCPAs, etc. as possible.

Deena

P.S. I hope you enjoy this wonderful site created by Bear and Jabear, and are here for the long haul.`
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: newflvr September 23, 2005, 11:03:12 PM
Would you mind if I post it to Newf-l, the Newfoundland health site on Yahoo? 

: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 23, 2005, 11:11:01 PM
Please do post it.  We'd like as many people to see it as possible; we're also trying to get signatures.  You are free to post it to other sites, give it to veterinarians, etc.

If anyone is willing to add their name (and town if possible) to the letter, please pm us. 

Thanks.

Sofia
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 24, 2005, 12:21:40 AM
Good Hope...
I understand completely I wish I could be more help than I am but you know how difficult it is when "you're stuck in the middle" I wish you the best of luck & hope the best comes out of this...I love this site...
         DFTHYFBT&E
                             Love
                                     Legends
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 24, 2005, 02:19:12 AM
Please do post it.  We'd like as many people to see it as possible; we're also trying to get signatures.  You are free to post it to other sites, give it to veterinarians, etc.

If anyone is willing to add their name (and town if possible) to the letter, please pm us. 

Thanks.

Sofia
C'mon BPo people!...There's strength in numbers! :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: ZooCrew September 24, 2005, 11:21:17 AM
This is the first I have seen of this thread, and it was on the bottom of the page.

I pm'd you.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 24, 2005, 11:40:31 AM
Well I just found out that since I'm a member of this site the Tim is saying I'm a backstabber etc so I know now that his friendship was never true so now I'm not stuck in the middle I will contact the proper authorities here in my hometown about his site it's not revenge at no means I'm going to check into what he has on his site with the local authorities, vets etc to see how much harm these dogs are being dragged thru....I love all animals and will protect them any way shape or form....
                                                    Legends
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 24, 2005, 12:11:20 PM
Well I just found out that since I'm a member of this site the Tim is saying I'm a backstabber etc so I know now that his friendship was never true so now I'm not stuck in the middle I will contact the proper authorities here in my hometown about his site it's not revenge at no means I'm going to check into what he has on his site with the local authorities, vets etc to see how much harm these dogs are being dragged thru....I love all animals and will protect them any way shape or form....
                                                    Legends
I'm sorry that happened to you Legends...I truley am. :( Rest assured you are among friends here! ;D
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 24, 2005, 12:27:23 PM
GYPSY JAZMINE ,
     Thank You so much..Life is never fair but with me I give you one chance and one only Tim blew that chance which is really no loss to me now he's just got to explain to people why he is the way he is and why he still builds that site.....
     I know I'm amoung friends here & I'm so happy I became a member.....Lov e you all bunches....... .....
          DFTHYFBT&E
                              Love
                                          Legends
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: jabear September 24, 2005, 12:33:00 PM
Great letter! Very well written.  :D
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 24, 2005, 01:52:16 PM
GYPSY JAZMINE ,
     Thank You so much..Life is never fair but with me I give you one chance and one only Tim blew that chance which is really no loss to me now he's just got to explain to people why he is the way he is and why he still builds that site.....
     I know I'm amoung friends here & I'm so happy I became a member.....Lov e you all bunches....... .....
          DFTHYFBT&E
                              Love
                                          Legends
Yw legends...It makes me feel very good that you joined us & kept an open mind to the concern we have for the dogs...I really am glad that you are her with us. :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Stacey September 24, 2005, 02:30:34 PM
Legends,
We are glad you are here!  ;D  I am sorry Tim based his friendship with you on your loyalty to his website instead of to him.   :-[  His loss is our gain!
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 25, 2005, 01:11:38 AM
BUMP...Lets get some names here so Sophia can add them to her letter...Then we can all print it out & take it to vets in our own areas. :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: nohesnotahorse September 25, 2005, 01:26:40 AM
Here is the letter:

September 21, 2005

To Whom It May Concern:

   The riding of dogs is currently being promoted by certain people, most notably on a website: http://www.dogriderssociety.com, owned by Mr. Tim Veldboom of (unknown town to be filled in),Wisconsin, although there are others.  This website promotes the riding of dogs by children, by posting photographs, videotape clippings, and written stories about these rides.  There are webpages with collections of these, in addition to one about “Teaching a Kid to Ride a Dog.”  Despite the recommendation found on the website that a dog can carry only 20% of its own weight, there are videotape clippings and photographs of large, older children appearing to weigh well over 40 lbs. riding small dogs.  In particular, the videotapes of the pit bulls and the young Great Dane show children riding dogs when they are far too large for their dogs.  Despite the recommendation, the presence of such pictures and videotape clippings on the website can only be taken as approval.
   This, if permitted to occur more than once or twice, could conceivably cause serious damage to these dogs or, even worse, the children.  The Great Dane, for example, shown in the videotapes, does not even appear to have finished growing; if this is the case, his bones could be severely damaged by the trauma of carrying a girl upon his back.  He is also quite nervous and appears to be afraid, a situation in which dogs have been known to bite in self-defense.  Even mature dogs should not have a significant amount of weight placed upon them for any length of time, excepting a properly fitted backpack. (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1661&S=1&SourceID=47)
   Such actions may even constitute abuse, in the sense of using something contrary to its intended use, as dogs’ basic structure is unsuitable to bear weight.  They differ from animals capable of bearing weight, such as horses, in that their lumbosacral joint is quite flexible and even their backs flex when running, whereas horses have a much less flexible joint that allows far the back to flex far less. [Susan E. Harris, Horse Gaits, Balance and Movement (New York, New York: Howell Book House, 2003): pp. 23-24]  Thus, the practice of riding dogs may result in injury to the animal’s spine.
   This practice needs to be discouraged and spoken against, particularly by those people who have greater authority in the eyes of pet owners.  Veterinarians, in particular, have the obligation to inform their clients of the dangers of such practices.  It is my hope that they do, and that neither dogs nor children are injured as a result of this website and similar ones.

Sincerely,

Sofia Arango of Mission, Texas


Any suggestions to improve the content or polish the expression of this letter would be appreciated.  If you would like to add your name to this letter or copy it to give to vets or trainers, that would also be appreciated.

Sofia

(Edited to change one word in the letter.)

Please feel free to add my signature - Tom Andrews, Mobile, AL.  I am also going to forward this link to a couple of friends of mine who are with the SPCA and Local Friends of the Animal shelter , so that they can gt the word out.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 25, 2005, 01:27:25 AM
Ty Tom! :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: DixieSugarBear September 25, 2005, 02:05:38 AM
I just sent a PM.  Please add us to the letter.

: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Rocky's 'Rents September 25, 2005, 02:13:56 AM
Count me in - PM sent!!!
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: henrysmomma September 25, 2005, 02:22:04 AM
Add my name too ;D  Rose Bouffard, Vancouver, British Columbia, canada
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 25, 2005, 02:50:38 AM
Thanks guys! :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Stacey September 25, 2005, 03:34:33 AM
Oh yeah!  I almost forgot...pleas e add me as well!
Stacey Couch  Las Vegas, NV
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 25, 2005, 03:53:34 AM
Hello! Please add my name to the letter as well

Maria Alvarado  Lafayette, Indiana
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: damar September 25, 2005, 07:38:20 AM
Well I just found out that since I'm a member of this site the Tim is saying I'm a backstabber etc so I know now that his friendship was never true so now I'm not stuck in the middle I will contact the proper authorities here in my hometown about his site it's not revenge at no means I'm going to check into what he has on his site with the local authorities, vets etc to see how much harm these dogs are being dragged thru....I love all animals and will protect them any way shape or form....
                                                    Legends

I don't mean to provoke an argument here, and rarely post although I do read many of the things written and this thread has really bothered me becasue I wonder how true of a friend you are if you can turn from defending this Tim fellow to turning him in when the going gets rough? It seems to me that it is indeed revenge for your hurt feelings and nothing more. I would caution all BPO members to refrain from embracing you until your motives are fully seen. BPO members are kind, loving and faithful people who truly care about one another and will stand next to them when the going get tough. I am not sure you are made of that kind of material Legends.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Anky September 25, 2005, 07:48:44 AM
Damar,

When Legends first posted here I was the first one to fire off a rather nto so nice comeback.  But as she stated in another post, what she heard about us was entirely different than what we really were.  She saw how much we loved our dogs and that their best interests were at heart and decided that she wanted to be in a group like this.  She also repeate3dly said that she didn't want to take sides, tht she wouldn't have anything to do with the letter or saying anything bad about the other website.  When Tim found out that she was a member here he's the one who turned on her.  I would have to say if one of my friends did something like that to me I would be immensely hurt.  Also, she said she's going to see what's legal and what harm if any is being done to the dogs.  I don't see that as suspicious.  And I'm a VERY suspicious person :)

Ang

Edited to add, one day I will learn to type  ::)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 25, 2005, 08:05:04 AM
Well I just found out that since I'm a member of this site the Tim is saying I'm a backstabber etc so I know now that his friendship was never true so now I'm not stuck in the middle I will contact the proper authorities here in my hometown about his site it's not revenge at no means I'm going to check into what he has on his site with the local authorities, vets etc to see how much harm these dogs are being dragged thru....I love all animals and will protect them any way shape or form....
                                                    Legends

I don't mean to provoke an argument here, and rarely post although I do read many of the things written and this thread has really bothered me becasue I wonder how true of a friend you are if you can turn from defending this Tim fellow to turning him in when the going gets rough? It seems to me that it is indeed revenge for your hurt feelings and nothing more. I would caution all BPO members to refrain from embracing you until your motives are fully seen. BPO members are kind, loving and faithful people who truly care about one another and will stand next to them when the going get tough. I am not sure you are made of that kind of material Legends.
What I see is a person that cared enough for dogs to try & come & see the "other side" of the story & was open minded enough to become educated on the problem we had with dog riding...I also see someone who no longer wanted any part of the abuse so she quit Tim's site but still tried to defend him as a nice person...When she was no longer in between because of Tim's own choices she was then free of feeling obligated to him & was able to get fully on board with trying to do something about stopping the abuse...Legend s has posted her often & seems to be fitting in nicely...We welcome her as a fellow dog lover.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 25, 2005, 10:09:38 AM
Hey Everybody,

Listen, we're all here because we love our BPO's and our little paws too. Sometimes we may not like or agree with what someone says. Do we always like or agree with what our husbands, children, or relatives say or do? I think not. Just remember a true friend is someone who is not afraid to tell the truth, and even if you do not listen will still love you and continue to remind you it isn't right. We all have more aquintances in life than we can count, many many fair weather friends, but we are very lucky to have even one TRUE friend.  Tim and Legend have their friendship or lack there of to work out. Let's let them do it on their own and stick to our friendships with each other.......an d ofcourse the purpose of this thread.  ;)

Hope we all make lots of true friends from this site and gets lots of signatures!

Thanks,
Deena

: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 25, 2005, 10:14:58 AM
Hey Everybody,

Listen, we're all here because we love our BPO's and our little paws too. Sometimes we may not like or agree with what someone says. Do we always like or agree with what our husbands, children, or relatives say or do? I think not. Just remember a true friend is someone who is not afraid to tell the truth, and even if you do not listen will still love you and continue to remind you it isn't right. We all have more aquintances in life than we can count, many many fair weather friends, but we are very lucky to have even one TRUE friend.  Tim and Legend have their friendship or lack there of to work out. Let's let them do it on their own and stick to our friendships with each other.......an d ofcourse the purpose of this thread.  ;)

Hope we all make lots of true friends from this site and gets lots of signatures!

Thanks,
Deena


Very good Deena!! :)
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 25, 2005, 12:10:45 PM
Everyone has their opinion on this topic but I know that the friendship I thought I had with Tim was never real....I have talked to a couple people I know here in my hometown that own big dogs and gave themn the link to Tim's site and to BPO they DID NOT like Tim's site the first thing they stated to me is animal cruelty so I know deep in my heart what he is displaying is nothing but animal cruelty and I want NO part of that....
                 DFTHYFBT&E
                                       Love
                                                  Legends
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Leah-n-boy-os September 25, 2005, 11:40:11 PM
I've Pm'd my name as well, please add me.

Is this letter also being sent to the local autorities in the town where this action is taking place? I would also cover copy the State Representative as well.

This is a crime. Action should be taken to not only remove the site, but an investigation should be encouraged to ensure that there are no other forms of abuse present.

At this point, seeing as it is a published website, I question whether we ALL shouldn't email this letter to our State Rep's. I am more than willing to email a copy to mine.

Legends, I applaud your courage to speak out against the abuse. I'm glad that you are enlightened enough to step back and look at an issue from both sides. I'm also very glad that you have chosen to put yours and other's animals needs and health concerns before your friendship.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 26, 2005, 12:45:46 AM
After we have collected signatures we will pm it with the signatures to everyone who signed it so that they can send to their local and state representative s, as well as veterinarians, trainers, and shelters in their area.

We planned on sending it the veterinarians in Wisconsin also, but someone from Wisconsin would need to send it to their state representative s.  As residents of Texas, we would have no influence with government representative s there.

Sincerely,

Deena and Sofia
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: dohertyswissy September 26, 2005, 12:52:25 AM
I just PMed you.  Good letter!
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Tulsas' Dad September 26, 2005, 04:33:59 AM
Sign me up!
John Goetting
Clovis, CA.
And to Legends,
I knew you would find a home here.
True hearts Shine pure Light.
John and Tulsa
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 26, 2005, 09:19:20 AM
Thank You John....Huggz
I was just wanting to let you all know that POF has a new group on msn the link is   http://groups.msn.com/ThePetOwnersForumFamily/poffamily.msnw

He knows he has done wrong but refuses to accept it and remove his site & groups from the internet...So please add this link to the letter as well.....

I believe the more people who are against this may put a stop to it...I'm hoping it does
                       DFTHYFBT&T
                                          Love & Licks
                                                            Legends & Brat
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 27, 2005, 07:54:58 AM
Thank you, everyone, for signing.

We will send this tomorrow to everyone we can think of here, as well as the vets in Mr. Veldboom's town.  Please send the letter I'm pm-ing to local vets, the vet association if there is one, state and local representative s, trainers, and anyone else who could help.

Again, thank you.

Sofia

P.S. Legends, I did not add the new website because it does not claim to promote dog-riding and does not have any messages promoting dog-riding.  I hope you understand.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 27, 2005, 09:12:42 AM
I have pm-ed everyone who signed that is on this board (I hope).  If I have overlooked you or you would like a copy of the letter with signatures, please pm me; I will send it to you.

Sofia
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: LaurieW September 27, 2005, 11:15:48 AM
I am late, too....but I'll pm my info & send a copy of the letter to the local vets where I live.
-Laurie
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GYPSY JAZMINE September 27, 2005, 11:25:24 AM
Ty Sophia!!...It's a great letter!...I am interested to see if we can get any backing from proffesional animal people...I am also giving copies to any dog trainers in my area & to my local Humae Society.
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 27, 2005, 11:47:35 AM
Sofia,
 Not a problem hon I just wanted to let everyone know he's got another group going.....Plea se email me a copy of that letter so i can give it to all the proper authorities here as well..
                   DFTHYFBT&E
                                  Love & Licks
                                             Legends & Brat
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: GR8DAME September 27, 2005, 12:14:52 PM
Thanks, Sofie. I will also see that the names that I pm'ed you of non-members get a copy to distribute in their towns and local vets as well.
Together we CAN make a differance!!
[/color]
Stella
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Legends & Sassy September 27, 2005, 01:00:11 PM
Sofia,
Hon please ignore the last post about e-mailing me a copy Duh me ....
Brat is in heat now so Mommie is having a difficult time trying to keep Brat settled down with her Uncle Joey (Sheltie) wanting to get her..I don't want to be a grandma & I also don't have homes set up for the puppies so NO NO NO......
          DFTHYFBT&E
                                 Love
                                              Legends
: Re: Need Input on Letter
: Good Hope September 27, 2005, 06:44:55 PM
 :-[ I added Mrs. Couch's name twice in the pm's.  Sorry about the mistake.

Sofia