Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : YelenaLevitina October 10, 2005, 04:02:31 AM
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I was notified that many complaints were filed against me protesting the way I respond to the posts. ??? I have no idea what could trigger this reaction, but I am very sorry for the result.
If someone, please, point the details out to me - I sure will appreciate it. It sure looks like today is a bad day for complaints - maybe just a fluke? ??? ??? ???
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I don't see how you could have offended anyone... ??? You are quite new and to my knowledge have never posted anything offensive...
Geeez...I am so friggin confused right now. >:(
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What!!! You too!!! Now THIS is annoying. Who is complaining so much? If they don't like certain members, THEY can either ignore their posts or leave. You just joined Yelena Levitina.
BTW, if somebody complains about this post, don't kick my mother (Good Hope) off the board; I can stop posting.
Sofia
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Red, Pleaseeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeee ee don't leave, we need you.
Lisa
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Well I want to know how many of us are offending how many people because I got the same message.
What is going on here????
Interesting...It seems that the people who know what they are talking about & are straight to the point are being targeted...I am sorry...I must say that I am getting irritated by this whole matter.
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Great, now I'm angry... >:(
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Yelena, how in the world could you have offended someone? You just got here. ??? ???
And for everyone else, what is this a conspiracy? Sure, some of the posters have been quite frank, and if I had been the original poster, I may have been somewhat offended, but I certainly wouldn't have complained about them. To each his own, I always say.
Good Lord, this is getting out of control. Is someone offended by people being knowledgable? Because those seem to be the only kind people getting censored. What is going on?? ???
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Well I want to know how many of us are offending how many people because I got the same message.
What is going on here????
You know the reason I really like BPO is because there is good advise to be had here by people who try to make a difference in the dog world...I wouldn't be happy if this became another sugar coat everything you say no matter how serious the matter site.
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Well Red...you are prob the most knowledgeable dog person on here that is great at articulating how to do something....
I am trying to delete my posts and profiles etc...and all this is still going on...how many people have gotten that email
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Well Red...you are prob the most knowledgeable dog person on here that is great at articulating how to do something....
I am trying to delete my posts and profiles etc...and all this is still going on...how many people have gotten that email
Babs, I wish you wouldn't leave...I am sure somehow we can get this matter resolved to everyones comfort.
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You know the reason I really like BPO is because there is good advise to be had here by people who try to make a difference in the dog world...I wouldn't be happy if this became another sugar coat everything you say no matter how serious the matter site.
I know what you mean. There is another group I am a member of and b/c of people complaining about what some were posting, I now open many posts w/I hope this doens't offend anyone........ ..
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Well I want to know how many of us are offending how many people because I got the same message.
What is going on here????
Interesting...It seems that the people who know what they are talking about & are straight to the point are being targeted...I am sorry...I must say that I am getting irritated by this whole matter.
Looks like you hit the nail on a head. Sad, I think even on a general "nice, warm a comfortable" message board like that one pet dog owners can make use and benefit information from people who researching sertain breeds, working, showing, breeding the dogs.
I hope it is not the case of jealocy or competing for attention - sort of "someone is writing interesting information about the breed and no one is paying attention to my cute dog for the moment - lets complain about them and get them off this board".
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Are these complaints arriving as PMs? Or going to our emails?? I have not received one. ???
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Yelena, I just went through ALL your posts and could'nt find anything that would even remotely resemble offensive.
What is going on here?
It does seem like the breeders, and the more knowledgable members are being targeted.
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Are these complaints arriving as PMs? Or going to our emails?? I have not received one. ???
I got a private message from Bear on this board and sat in my chair stunned for a while.
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I've run into this issue a few times and had to clarify myself, BIG TIME!!! Look people, blogs and chat groups are a great thing that we all enjoy, but it is hard sometimes for people to understand your intent. Feathers get ruffled, noses get bent out of shape and then Michael and Jaime have to hear about it. This is how it always goes, I think a few of you out there don't know any other way to post but in a seemingly condescending manner. You're probably not even aware of it. But all of you are for the most part are very cool and fun! ;D Look at it from Michael's point of view, this is a business for him and he has to run it likewise. He has to deal with these issues and he wants to be able continue to offer a website where people can come to without reservations. BPO could be blackballed very easily by one person posting online complaints within the Pet Related Web Community. I have seen this happen. Everybody needs to chill, this isn't personal. Nobody should leave, and more people should join. I come to this site on a daily basis and I'd rather write about doggie issues and funny off topic stuff, rather than about people who are acting like children, on BOTH sides of the argument. Bottom line, this is Michael's show so please remember and respect that. HUG YOUR DOGS AND THINK GOOD THOUGHTS!
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I think a few of you out there don't know any other way to post but in a seemingly condescending manner. You're probably not even aware of it.
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well hopefully those of us who post that way, and it seems to be all breeders, will be able to tip toe thru the tulips now.
what you consider condescending may actually be facts and straight up words, without speaking in person how do you really know?
i have yet to see that here, i see knowlege from many.
well i guess the few visits i made were fun while it lasted.
:)
education is key, and i have a feeling it could be millers maybe doing the complaining, becouse people buy pups at six seven weeks are their kind of people, but we end up cleaning the mess all the time, while they run with each and every other person who does not know any better.
i think it may be someone who doesnt want to see people educated that buying from someone who truly cares and is a part of that families life to guide and coach them thru it.
diet and training is a huge responsibility that many serious breeders want to be the coach, as they know their lines better than anyone out there.
ok i am babbling again, *sigh*
Disclaimer
not meant to offend anyone out there.
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Yelena made a comment to me....a person that owns one of her pups...I was not offended nor would i be...I trust Yelana with my breed of dogs and I value her opinion
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You know the reason I really like BPO is because there is good advise to be had here by people who try to make a difference in the dog world...I wouldn't be happy if this became another sugar coat everything you say no matter how serious the matter site.
Aww, I don't want anyone to leave :-\ Ima gonna be gettin a pup soon and need everyone's advice!!!! Red, Babs, Sar, Yelena and everyone else... please don't leave
I don't get it... people post for reasons... so they can get peoples oppinions on things. And they should know that not everyone has the same oppinion.
Some people may have been off {now I'm not saying that you were, since I don't really know the circumstances}, but everyones HUMAN!!! None is perfect!
I hope that everything pans out :-\
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Newf Lover, I totally agree
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Hi Everyone,
I am fairly new here, but I have to say that everyone has been really nice and the advice I've received has been great. I do see that some people may be taken aback by some of the very frank advice given, but there is no reason for any complaints! It is obvious that the knowledgable people here have only the best interest of the animals in mind. I hope no one will leave over this. See, this is why I like animals so much better than people-no hurt feelings or pride, no complaining!
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i agree with you 100% binky...
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You Know What? - this is all just crazy!!!
Can not anyone discuss things like adults? People who are complaining - whoever it may be. You all need to step up and talk to your so called offenders personally. I mean please - how offending can it really be? I am angry and upset! And it takes me alot to get here. I am also upset about the censorship. The other thread has now disappeared! I really don't blame Red for leaving. It is not really a bad idea. There is to much childish backbiting going on. And it is really too bad. I want to just say to everyone who received a message to alter how they post because they are offensive - I am sorry!!! I am sorry that people can not come to you and discuss their problems and feelings - I really am sorry and I don't blame you for leaving.
Timmie
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What??!! Red left?
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! There is so much left for me to learn. :-[ :-[ :-[
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i don't know if any of them left...but I don't blame them. And it is a huge loss to this board if they go. They are an impportant part of the board. And a great resource.
Timmie
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True dat.
sorry, couldn't resist. ;D
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The whole reason I joined this board is because of the way everyone talks...and how we all get along. Yes at first I was a little taken back when I read some of Reds posts...but I saw that she was giving some great advice and yes she is frank and to the point. But the point is she's really helpful! How can you take offense to someone offering someone else such great advice?
I love the fact that no one seemed to think that they were better than one another and that this place gives you great advice and great laughs all at once without the sugar coated-ness.
I really hope no one leaves or has to leave because of this.
I know i've only been a member for a few days but it really upsets me that people are having problems with some of my favorite posters.
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Yes, it's upsetting that it had to come to people being removed...I wish i knew which people were removed though...
Rose
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The whole reason I joined this board is because of the way everyone talks...and how we all get along. Yes at first I was a little taken back when I read some of Reds posts...but I saw that she was giving some great advice and yes she is frank and to the point. But the point is she's really helpful!
Red has been "dismissed"...Not only did she have awesome advise to give, she went the extra mile for some people that really needed guidance...I too was uncertain about Red's style Of "speaking" when I first knew her but I came to admire & like her very much as time went on...I, for one, will miss her very much.
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:-[ I don't know exactly what happened today, and from the sounds of it I don't want to know. I, for one, am just disappointed that it escalated to the point of people being dismissed. I have the utmost respect for Red and her frank, no nonsense style of direction. When it comes to questions of how to handle questionable behavior with a dog that will soon outweigh me by at least 50 lbs, I did not need to have the answer sugar coated as to what I was doing wrong and I am sorry that someone took offense to her style.
I hope that everything goes back to normal here as I love BPO and look forward to hearing everyones dog stories...well, everyones stories in general. I truly appreciate everyone here and the advice as well as the laughter I get as a result of this forum....I just want it to continue on!
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Yes - Red will be missed. It is really to bad...to bad people can't take everything so personally. She will be missed greatly. I wish I had her private email - I would write and apologize...th ings that were posted earlier about her were really uncalled for..and that is too bad.
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I am all for admiring our dogs, but I think education is a crucial element of owning a large canine. The fact that we own big dogs means we have an even bigger responsibility to ensure our pets are well within our control. Nothing frustrates me more than someone obtaining a large, potentially aggressive animal because they like how it looks, without giving serious consideration to ensuring they can dominate and control the dog. We're not dealing with little dogs who's sole purpose are to amuse and cuddle, we're dealing with large and giant breeds which can be deadly weapons if they are in the wrong hands. It is imperative that we be honest and outspoken if we feel someone is taking a wrong turn with their dog - candy coating the truth or not wanting to offend may ultimately cost someone or the dog their life.
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I for one am not going to tell someone giving me a gift (great advice) that I really wanted pink gift wrap paper so I don't want the gift. I am so glad that I have printed some Red's advice, she will be missed.
Lisa
The whole reason I joined this board is because of the way everyone talks...and how we all get along. Yes at first I was a little taken back when I read some of Reds posts...but I saw that she was giving some great advice and yes she is frank and to the point. But the point is she's really helpful!Â
Red has been "dismissed"...Not only did she have awesome advise to give, she went the extra mile for some people that really needed guidance...I too was uncertain about Red's style Of "speaking" when I first knew her but I came to admire & like her very much as time went on...I, for one, will miss her very much.
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Yes, it's upsetting that it had to come to people being removed...I wish i knew which people were removed though...
Rose
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i have not been on for a while, please let me know what happened with red etc........... ...
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Hey.. I haven't been offended yet!........ I'm feeling kinda left out :(
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I am really sad that all this happened. I am really going to miss Red :'( Just the other day I was laughing at her news paper advice( hit yourself over the head...) Red if you read this we are really going to miss you, and we all love your advice.
Nina
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Ok Brandon, Whe the H*** is that new puppy dog! Are you offended now, if not sorry its the best I can do. hehehe. Are you guys going to the PetSmart Halloween party? I think it is on the 25th. I have not been able to find any cute xlarge costumers. Were did you find something for Bava? Can't wait to see him I bet he is getting so big.
Lisa
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Thanks Lisa!, that's better :) We bought 2 from here:
http://www.costumecraze.com/Traditional-Costumes-Halloween-Costumes-Halloween-Costumes-for-Pets.html
They do have some that are in extra-large. We got two larges. They are pretty tight on the his front legs, but I think they will work. I was thinking about that last night, and I have an idea that I think would work. What if for the pants legs of the costume, you slit them along the back and then sewed a couple of elastic pieces to keep it together? I think that would work with these for when he outgrows them. I'm sure we will be at the Petsmart halloween.
Ok Brandon, Whe the H*** is that new puppy dog! Are you offended now, if not sorry its the best I can do. hehehe. Are you guys going to the PetSmart Halloween party? I think it is on the 25th. I have not been able to find any cute xlarge costumers. Were did you find something for Bava? Can't wait to see him I bet he is getting so big.
Lisa
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Thanks for the link, I will check it out. What a great idea to enlarge the size. See ya! at the party.
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It's too bad that Red decided to leave, but I'm sure she'll be back. To me, she came off a bit preachy at times, like every post was a sermon. But she did have good ideas and advice most of the time. Whatever, that was her way I guess. I didn't see too much interaction or banter on her part, it was pretty much "This is what I do so listen up...". I felt her intent was good, but it just came off the wrong way sometimes. A perfect example of this is was during this thread:
http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,4126.0.html
She was probably just trying to help but after about 7 posts it's just too much info. That's why I put in the pics of Drake with the cheeseburgers, just to lighten things up. The snottiest message I ever came across on this board was this one, (not Red) and they never even backed up their statements! Just blurted out some snotty opinions and then retreated. It was a thread I started about the stupid laws that ban dogs in public:
Does anyone else have to deal with this stupid issue? What is the logic behind it?
I will respectfully give you my opinion as to why the "stupid issue" is "personal responsibility".
Respecting the laws of your community is your personal responsibility to the public.
Just because I am in the public, I do not want children running up to me or my dog.
I do not stare at others in public that may be different and have handicaps, either.
I was taught to respect a person's privacy in public spaces.
Just like my civic freedom is to be free from secondhand smoke in public places, it is my freedom to be free from strangers approaching me and my dog.
Children should be taught never to approach a strange dog in public.
When I am sitting in the outdoor cafe with my dog and family, I don't want everyone to interrupt my meal with, "Oh, what a big dog!" I don't go by their table and say,"My, what a big child!"
My dog is trained to lie beside me next to the table while I eat. Why would I want your child to disturb us?
Not all dog enthusiasts or owners want to be on public display, but would like to maintain the right to private space in the public.
-I do not invite other dogs to go nose- to- nose to my dog, either.
-I don't go to dog parks either.
But I, like you, am a large dog owner. My dog is part of *my* life, not necessarily part of any dog or person that I meet on the street. I work my dog and train my dog and take great joy and pleasure in including him in the state parks, restaurants, beaches and rivers where I live.
He is usually the best behaved dog in the campgrounds and in public places. He lies quietly while other peoples dogs are barking at everyone walking by....
How long will the restaurants allow dogs outside that are jumping on every patron who walks by, getting tangled up on the chairs and tables?
NO DOGS ALLOWED is becoming more frequent in all communities because of people who don't get it. Like smokers who insist that their SMOKE outside is not harming anyone.....
now we have laws, since education didn't work.
Interesting in England, where there is an accepted etiquette for dogs in public, they are allowed in many places. But in America, we are making laws banning dogs an an uprecedented rate.
For instance, the point of having your dog on a leash is to have it in control, not to let it still run up to another dog even though it is "on leash." I can't tell you how may times this happens in public places. Not everyone in America picks up their dog poop in rest areas, parks and sidewalks. It is common etiquette in England.
In our fine democracy, for which young men and women are dying for, your freedom ends where mine begins. In other words, just because you see the world in one view doesn't mean that is how everyone sees it.
There would be fewer laws if more people took personal responsibility to respect the rights of others on the roads and in public places.
Simple Civics 101.
The relationship you build with your dog is what is important. Some of us think that relationship is more important than creating a circus in the public arena.
Looking for someplace to take your dog? Try PetSmart...tak e your dog where it is wanted.
Please do not force your yourself in public places where there is a clear policy, as it gives dog owners a poor image.
Every dog owner portrays an image in public. If we want to prevent more bans of dogs in public, a good idea is to act as an ambassador of good will and respect the rights of others.
Mmmkay?
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WOW! Teach me not to check in on weekends.
Carolyn
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It's too bad that Red decided to leave, but I'm sure she'll be back. To me, she came off a bit preachy at times, like every post was a sermon. But she did have good ideas and advice most of the time. Whatever, that was her way I guess. I didn't see too much interaction or banter on her part, it was pretty much "This is what I do so listen up...". I felt her intent was good, but it just came off the wrong way sometimes. A perfect example of this is was during this thread:
http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,4126.0.html
She was probably just trying to help but after about 7 posts it's just too much info.
As far as I understand Red did not leave, she was kicked out.
As for the thread in the link - I thought it was perfect way to teach new puppy owner (who by the way asked for help on this) "stay" command to help with feeding time. Not everyone is a traning expert and it looks like all advice was welcomed by the requestor.
People who knew how to do it well, but decided not to offer help for some reason, did not have to read pass first couple of messages.
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yeah life gets busy and i don't watch new topics.... missed a lot. I must say i agree that is is sad people are leaving, or dismissed. I also agree that there are people who post and are very condesending at times. It sometimes makes me reluctant to post questions i know might be stupid. Adivise is good, condesention and absolutes are not. You may say i shoudl not give my dogs blue toys (as an outrageous example), and it may be well known that blue toys have some negative thing associated with them, but say it nicely (ie: you might want tobe careful becaue blue toys have this issue) as opposed to in the absolute truth manner (ie: I would never never give my dog blue toys they are horrible and a responsible dog owner shoudl have known that).Â
I truely value this board, and as upsettign as this seems to have been for everyone, maybe it is good to air out our closetes everyonce and awhil and talk about issues. (i just wish nobpdy had to leave).
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It's too bad that Red decided to leave, but I'm sure she'll be back. To me, she came off a bit preachy at times, like every post was a sermon. But she did have good ideas and advice most of the time. Whatever, that was her way I guess. I didn't see too much interaction or banter on her part, it was pretty much "This is what I do so listen up...". I felt her intent was good, but it just came off the wrong way sometimes.
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as a breeder, long time trainer, groomer, ex vet assistant, i thought Reds posts were very professional, well stated, straight and to the point.
that is the difference in personality
where you might think she is the way you stated above, i thought her very professional, well stated, and well versed, she also explained in great detail how to do things, i never saw snobbishness, nor did i see listen up.
that is odd.....oh well it takes all kinds to make this world go round.
EDITED
to add,
not meant to hurt anyones feelings.
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I will miss Red very much. Her posts were in response to requests by other members, she NEVER climbed on a soap box to make her views known unsolicited. If you don't want an answer, don't ask the question! We lost a very valueable resource when Red left, it was BPO that is the lesser for it.
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yep - she will be missed. It is a big loss to us. And I liked her exactly as she was - wouldn't be right is she sugar coated everything. I like the direct no nonsense approach. I don't think she or anyone else should be expected to change because a few people can't take the direct approach. She did not verbally abuse anyone she just laid it on the line.
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I hate to see Red being kicked off. All the advice she has given me WORKED. She gave advice and people can either take it or leave it. Yes she was very blunt, but that's just the way some people are. I saw people ask her specifically for help. BPO just isn't the same after yesterday. It's like everyone is tip toeing around. It sucks!
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you know what? (in reply to nikerboker) edited to add parenthesis
i find your posts disturbing, i also find it pretty easy to ignore those that might irritate me, it does take a lot to do that to me, but, hey, you are a different personality than i, and i wont pm the moniters complaining that i am offended by you, i see someone running off at the mouth quite a bit about red, do you not like her?
well that is cool
you dont have to like everyone, but to say we are jumping on the red bandwagon?
really?
i have my own brain, my own witts, and my own judgements, to me, red was a very knowlegable person, to me, i see others who dont like her for whatever the reason, we all are not going to like everyone, all the time.
that is cool
but to say we are jumping on a red bandwagon, i could very well say you and the anti red people are on an anti red wagon, is it jealousy? becouse someone is extremly knowlegable? is it becouse you just dont like her? whatever it is water under the bridge now.
we could go round and round on this subject, becouse it seems that is what is happening in this thread.
For one, i respect Red, and actually visited her website, emailed her to see how she was doing.
hopefully i hear back from her.
have a nice afternoon.
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Nikki,
I just want to respectfully say that since this whole thing has blown up, EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts has been condescending and preachy toward those members that take issue with the removal of Red. You have made long posts about what we SHOULD have said, how we SHOULD feel, what we SHOULD think and what we SHOULD say. To me, that is way out of line. You're lecturing us all as if we're children just because we're mourning the loss of Red. Exactly like saying, "Well, yes your cat died. Don't be sad, you should have known it was going to die." Or something...ma ybe that's a bad example.
You are exemplifying everything that you are attempting to demonstrate about how a proper BPO member shouldn't be.
Its not even that I don't agree with some of the stuff you're saying. But, man, Nik. Back off. People can express their dissatisfactio n with the removal of Red, and shouldn't be subject to your lecturing about it. You've lectured to members about it in two (that I know of) different threads. We all know that you think that how we feel is "sick", "sad" and "messed up". But, you are being the "drill sargent" in this case...shoving down our throats why we should all accept the removal of Red.
I'm not trying to be offensive here, Niki, just pointing out something I've observed today and yesterday. You've made your points, now stop attacking people for saying that they're sad Red is gone.
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Nicole - I completely agree with what you have said. And thank you for saying it. I for one will miss Red and not once have I ever complained about her or anyone else for that matter.
Nikki - you are completely within your right to feel however you like but so are other people. I found your outburst from yesterday completely uncalled for at least in a public forum. If there were issues that you had with Red, Babs or whoever else it should have not been dealt with on the board. Take it private like a grown up. It was completely inflammatory and unfair. I find it funny that you knew that there were other things going on with complaints against Red. How would you have known that? Unless you had personal knowledge. I just find it interesting that the outburst from yesterday resulted in a thread disappearing and Red getting dismissed. Although it was not Red or Babs doing the name calling. I think this upsets me the most. It is too bad that the rest of us do not have the facts so that we may make sense of this and put some closure on it
Timmie
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I just removed my last post because I don't want to be involved with the drama, and I don't want to fight with Nikki. I don't dig on the way she's acting right now, but I still like her, and respect her and this board and I've already said what I had to.
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I am done hashing and re-hasing. There is way to much drama attached to this. I am done
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Thank you Tina :)
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This is perfect example of the differences betwenn dog "owners" and dog "breeders". Since owning a purebred, I have noticed a huge amount of snobbyness that comes from many breeders. It's the same kind of snobbyness you get from Wine Connesseurs (sp), Food Critics and Car Buffs. It's just sort of a know-it-all attitude that really bugs after a while. Now, I'm not saying all of you breeders are like that, but many of you are. Why do you think the movie "Best of Show" was so funny? Because it made fun of the fact that many dog breeders and showers are a bit wacky and live in their own worlds. Once again, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT!!! What I do know is that at the Newfoundland Specialty in Monterey this year, it was a experience in human psychology. And I safely say that kind of weirdness and snottyness is not isolated to the Newf world.
The thing about Red was, where were her stories of rolling around with her doggies or having fun with them? Where were her fun pictures of experiences she had with them? I don't recall seeing any, but I don't read every single post on this site. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw that nuturing side. I just saw an orator telling us what to do. If people asked questions, so be it. What I like seeing on this site is the fun stuff, the happy stories and the FYIs. The fun pictures and the goofy topics. I guess I'm just a dog "owner" and I don't understand the fine nuances of being a breeder. I'm done with this topic, it's getting boring. All I know is that Michael works really hard on this site to keep it cutting edge, look at all the recent improvements. It's not easy and takes knowledge and long hours, so HIS rules are to be followed. You don't like it, take a hike. Let's get along and move on. Mmkay? ;D
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You know I initially decided to stay out of this, but after going back and reading Red's many posts, I just have to say that I feel very sad that she is gone. I read the last 30 or so of her posts to try and see if there was anything inappropriate or offensive, and I didnt find it. Now of course, that is my opinion, but it was very evident from her posts how much she cares about dogs and about truly helping in each and every situation. The time and thought she put into each response is evident. I am not a breeder and I personally found her advice phenomenal. This was not a person who was here to "toot her own horn" about her own skill with dogs. There were also many posts where she just gave her sympathy about something sad, or appreciation for adorable dog pictures. Wow...how fortunate we were to have her input!!! And how unfortunate that she is gone.
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Dito, I guess some did not read that she sent a PM with her phone number when someone need help in their first litter. She did not judge she just offered to be there if she was needed in the middle of the night.
Lisa
You know I initially decided to stay out of this, but after going back and reading Red's many posts, I just have to say that I feel very sad that she is gone. I read the last 30 or so of her posts to try and see if there was anything inappropriate or offensive, and I didnt find it. Now of course, that is my opinion, but it was very evident from her posts how much she cares about dogs and about truly helping in each and every situation. The time and thought she put into each response is evident. I am not a breeder and I personally found her advice phenomenal. This was not a person who was here to "toot her own horn" about her own skill with dogs. There were also many posts where she just gave her sympathy about something sad, or appreciation for adorable dog pictures. Wow...how fortunate we were to have her input!!! And how unfortunate that she is gone.
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Out of all the post Ive ever read on this site this one makes me the saddest. I hate to see this. Sure everyone has their own oppinion , I teach my kids to walk away if they dont like something thats being said....
I have no idea who this Red lady is Ive been away and am glad I missed all this.Im sorry to see anyone leave. I came back to see how my FRIENDS are doing and see this. Common guys!!! Lets just forget this and move on.
:'( :'( :'( :'(
PS Judge now has little peaNUTS. LOL This site is about our BIG DOGS , NO????
KISSES
Coonie
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Out of all the post Ive ever read on this site this one makes me the saddest. I hate to see this. Sure everyone has their own oppinion , I teach my kids to walk away if they dont like something thats being said....Â
I have no idea who this Red lady is Ive been away and am glad I missed all this.Im sorry to see anyone leave. I came back to see how my FRIENDS are doing and see this. Common guys!!! Lets just forget this and move on.
:'(Â :'(Â :'(Â :'(
PS Judge now has little peaNUTS. LOL This site is about our BIG DOGS , NO????
KISSES
Coonie
LOL about Judge's peaNUTS...!!!...I bet he is much more comfy! ;D I agree with you about moving on...I hate it that Red is gone but nonetheless she is gone...Some feel the opposite & that is o.k. too....We are all entitled to our feelings of what is o.k. with us & what is not but none of that will change what happened...Wha t is simply is like it or not.
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I'm SOOO glad to here that Judge is all healed up! Those pics you posted of his eggplants were AWFUL!!! Peanuts are FAR healthier!
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I am so glad that Judge is ok.
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I don't want to start anymore problems. I'm new here and would rather not get kicked off already. But I can't sit by and watch all this going on without some comment.
It seems that a handful of people here that want to chastise red babs yelina sarnewife have a little too much info about the complaints that were made. Is it because they were the ones who complained?
Why is it that if someone asks for an honest opinion one can't be given? Whether it's direct or full of humor, it's still the advice the person was looking for. If someone is offended by the way another member posts their advice, then stop asking that member for the advice. Or don't read it. If someone else is taking the advice and has no problem with the way it was put, then why should you? Just stay out of it. I read the dobie/pit thread and the person asking for the advice had no problem with Red. After she stuck to her guns that she wouldn't abort, Red was there with all the help she needed to bring those pups into the world safely. And that post about the dogs in public areas was stated from that persons point of view on the subject. She didn't put any member down in that post. She just stated how she felt about it. I've read through all the posts of all the people that were complained about and I can't find a single thing wrong. All I can see is a bunch of people that got together and decided, let's make complaints in unison so that admin will take us seriously. It's funny to me that Yelina was here just a couple of days and was thrown into that whole mess. Maybe because she was friends with babs? Everyone needs to stop acting so childish. If you don't like the way something was said but it wasn't directed at you, just but out. If it was directed at you, take it to PM and handle it privately. There is no need for all this immature behavior. Everyone is going to have their favorites here and the people they dislike. That's human nature. But to stage a mutiny just for the sake of causing problems is the reason other boards don't last too long. Is that what you're hoping to accomplish? Do you want to see BPO disappear? Maybe if we all lighten up and stop taking everything so personally we'll all fair a little better. We need to get past this and restore BPO to it's former self.
That's all I have to say on this subject. I won't comment again. And I hope that I didn't offend anyone. I don't usually speak out this way, but I'm tired of coming here everyday and finding yet another argument going on. When I first joined I felt comfortable asking questions and talking to other members. Now I feel like if I talk to the wrong person I might get kicked off for some reason or another.
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Thank you, Lilysmom!!!!!!!!!! I am fairly new too, and was hesitant to get involved also. However, the tone of the board has changed already. It was mentioned above that "just because "uninvolved" people arent "offended" doesnt mean the the posts werent "offensive". Well, it works both ways....just because some people were "offended", doesnt necessarily mean the posts were offensive either. I see no reason why anyone posting responses should feel responsible for anyones "hurt feelings". Now, because of these "hurt feelings", most of us here are going to lose out on very valuable information and advice, and we are missing out on the support of a wonderful, caring dog lover. It is frustrating. And now Babs feels censored, as I am sure many others.
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BPO rules. ( Sorry I had to cut and paste. :-[ )Coonie
These rules are in place to keep the integrity of our site and keep the conversations flowing harmoniously. We want to ensure that everyone follows these rules so that there is no question as to what is considered inappropriate to post.
1. No profanity shall be used in any posts unless of course you are referring to a female dog (ie. bitch).
2. No degrading comments towards anyone on this forum.
3. No advertising of a specific breeder of a specific breed so that we don’t cause arguments that bring back grade school memories like “Mine is way better than yours”.
4. No advertising of puppies for sale or we might just be tempted to buy one of everything…and I don’t think our landlord would allow that many pets in one place.
Members will be given one warning for the following offenses. Two warnings will be considered grounds for banishment and in some cases forwarding of the collected information to the proper authorities.
1. Harassing anyone in any way. In case you are wondering what things might fall under this category, think before you type and if any comment could make you look like the 2nd syllable in the word harass, don’t write it.
2. Threatening anyone in any way. Remember what you tell your kids (human or 4-legged) “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.
3. Repeatedly posting topics which get locked (i.e. stirring the pot or intentionally causing trouble). This proverb should help to keep your memory fresh: “One mistake, shame on me. Two mistakes, shame on you”.
Understand that the rules are here in the interest of fairness. We support our Moderators and will believe them first in all cases. If you have a complaint about them please let us know.
Now on to the good stuff! Here are things you are encouraged to post about:
1. Pictures of your dog(s), yourself and family members because we love to see you and your beloved babies.
2. Asking for help with something, giving advice, support or encouragement to others.
3. Links to stores/websites that sell a product that may be of use to others. Without collaboration from others how would we know what restaurants are the best in town?
4. Names of medicines, food, good stores, etc. that many be of use to others. Personally, everything I use for our doggy-dog has been recommended from others, so why not share those great things with others?
5. Posting a pedigree of your dog(s). We think of this as your dog’s heritage, so share at will.
6. Upcoming events. If they are near us count us in!
7. Any relevant information on dogs and/or dog organizations (good or bad). We all need to know who the yucky people are so we can stay from them and we need to know who the good guys are so that we can join them in their efforts!
We hope our “rules” are used while you are part of the Big Paws family. Have fun and happy posting!
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Just trying to keep the bugs off the board!
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Just one point:
Sometimes the truth hurts.
There really is no way around it, I don't know of any other way to not hurt someones feelings when you have to tell them news they dont want to hear.
Example: How do you deliver the message in a happy/light manner to someone their new puppy from the pet store, that the kids just love, has serious health issues because of bad breeding and being raised in poor conditions, and being fed old-roy because that's what my neighbor feeds her dogs. The puppy's owner might be upset to hear this, and may not want to hear it, and will probably get mad at you. But as an animal lover with a conscience, how could you not tell her/him the truth?
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Just one point:
Sometimes the truth hurts.
There really is no way around it, I don't know of any other way to not hurt someones feelings when you have to tell them news they dont want to hear.
Example: How do you deliver the message in a happy/light manner to someone their new puppy from the pet store, that the kids just love, has serious health issues because of bad breeding and being raised in poor conditions, and being fed old-roy because that's what my neighbor feeds her dogs. The puppy's owner might be upset to hear this, and may not want to hear it, and will probably get mad at you. But as an animal lover with a conscience, how could you not tell her/him the truth?
I don't think the issue is with telling people the truth. It is with how one does it. There have been times when i have felt unsure about posting questions, because of how some people respond. It isn't about delivering the message in a happy/light manner, but to go off of your example, there is a differnece between:
1) giving advise about how the owner should proceed, and offering advise for next time, that the owner can take or leave.
or
2)Chastising the owner for doing something you (and I) feel was wrong, that is already done, and the owner might not have known better than at the time.
I am not trying to say that you or any other members in specific do this, just illustraiting what i think gets to the heart of why BPO is such a great place. I know that for the most part i am goign to get answers that are along the lines of 1, and that makes me feel free to post about issues even if i (beign a fairly new dog owner) know i have made a mistake or done something stupid.
Yes the truth hurts, but it doesn't have to attack my personal decissions, or previous mistakes.
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The truth hurts thing was just something I thought about, guess it would depend on the subject, wasn't supposed to mean anything or anyone in particular. I am to lazy to try and figure out if that is something that might have happened or not.
I'm not even paying attention to this stuff, and don't really have any interest in doing so either, just thought I'd throw that in, because I thought of it.
Just trying to be helpful.. :)
ps: relax, life's good
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Just trying to be helpful.. :)
ps: relax, life's good
I am just trying to help too, by offering an example of what has made me feel uncomfortable posting from time to time.
And yes, life is good, (except shakespeare has conjunctivitis, and i hate to see him uncomfortable).
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Ouch! Sorry Shakespear.. hope you feel better. Our lab used to have problems with her eyes and we'd have to get drops for her.
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we have an "ointment". It is like a gel, and i have to squeez 1/8th of an inch out into his bottowm lid, that i have pulled away from his eyeball. I am supposed to do this without lettign the sqeeze tube touch his eye...... This has proven near impossible. I wish i jsut had drops to put in.....
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Wow. Just wow. It's ironic, but I'd stayed away for a bit because I was sure I had offended folks here :(
I am sad to see that Red has gone. I found her utterly inflexible, abrasive, and brilliant when it came to the training of dogs. I do believe that she had a genuine desire to help people and gave of her time tirelessly. Perhaps it is her inflexibility which makes her so wonderful at what she does.
I think Newf Lover said it best when he talked about the difference between show folks and pet owners. It really is a matter of two different mind sets. While we love to post our goofy pics, they seem to focus on the "end game" so to speak. (Please forgive me for lapsing into gamer talk lol.) Their pictures are of form and shows and wins. I suppose it is natural that the two groups would have trouble communicating smoothly. Still, it makes me sad.
It is my hope that folks will reconsider Red's dismissal. We are adults here, and surely we can tell someone directly to back off when needed.
I would also like to say I'm sorry if I have offended anyone here. I truly value our differences here...and the insights and knowledge those differences bring.
Jen
(edited to make it more clearly reflect what I meant. :))
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Kirsten's was yes the truth hurts but the person delivering the truth doesn't have to do the hurting.
i think you summed up my thoughts better than i ever could have.
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My point was - moderators have to require proof/sample of unacceptable post, make their judgement and only after that - send PM to the offender.
Writing to someone (especially new to the board)
 We’ve had several complaints about your responses, or the way in which you respond to posts. We’ve even had members leave.......
Note: I have not seen the posts… I’m responding from the large number of complaints.
is really wrong. Reading this after two days on this forum and haven't done anything rude at all made me feell very uncomfortable. And after writing back to the moderator, and asking what possibly could have caused these complaints and not getting any response even as a courtesy - didn't help either.
I was ready to leave, plain and simple, and then I found out that other people were targeted at the same time. Hmm... I stuck around to see how it will develop.
Now, the whole situation reminds me of mid-last century Russia, when Stalin was in power. People were torn away from their families, sent to concentration camps, and executed because of someone making a complaint (even anonymous, or without any proof) about them "cooperating with the enemies of the country". These people have done nothing wrong, but perhabs someone wanted their job position, or their nice appartment (all real estate was goverment owned and was distributed as rewards to "loyal communists"), or their car (property of the accused and sentenced were given away to others - most likely to the "hero" who helped to recognise the "spy").
I think in this incident moderators who sent PMs to a few members were the main offenders, because they occused innocent people of wrong doing based on a "rumor" and without any "evidence". If this was done by accident - appology was in order, if it happened purposely - I wouldn't want to stick around here any longer.
So, can someone tell me which was it????
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Please don't leave Yelena, everything is will work out. I tried to be offended at some of your posts...but found it didn't work (your posts were simply too inoffensive). So I'm pretty sure it was an error to accuse you.
As for the others, I havent been here long enough to read all of their posts so I make no judgment(one can't judge without facts)
Thanks,
Rose
And please can we all just move on from this??
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First off, I want to say that I think that moderators here do a FANTASTIC job. It isn't easy trying to be everyone's friend, and then have to do their job as a moderator too. Let's put ourselves in the moderators shoes here for a second. IT IS THEIR JOB to respond to complaints, they don't sit back and say who can we target today to make their life on BPO miserable. I am quite sure that they don't want to be dealing with any of this either. They have probably been feeling just as miserable as everyone else who has been upset by all of the racket that has happened here.
Sure, I don't post everyday, but I read everyday, and I have been a member since May. I have belonged to several other forums, and this is the best one by far!!! All forums have their issues, and we can count ourselves lucky that this is really the first MAJOR blow up that has happened here. What has happened, happened. Now is time for us to accept that we aren't the originators of this forum, that the rules have been set before we all came here, and it is within those rules that we must play. I am just as sorry that I won't be able to read some more responses from knowledgable people that are not welcome here any longer, but maybe new, more knowledgable people will come. Maybe BPO will learn from all of this and become an even better place. Maybe, just maybe if we all accept what has happened and move forward things can resume as they once were. This really isn't the end of the world. I think that the issue at hand is for between the BPO staff and the accused offenders. Sure, we are all suffering from this in one way or another, but it is time to move forward.
My suggestion is for this topic to be removed from the board, maybe then we can stop seeing it come up and feel the need to beat it further to death.
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I think Brandon was right the truth does hurt, but better for it to hurt my feelings and keep me from doing something that will hurt one of my fur-babies. If it had not been for breeders giving me the hurtful truth I would have purchased a puppy from a breeder/puppymiller? Which for me would have been a very bad move, since after the loss of Rosie I was just thinking with my heart and would have been open to having made a bad choice. Due to a very outspoken breeder I was able to rethink what I was doing and wait just a little longer to get my very special boy Sugar Bear.
Lisa
So if you need to hurt my feeling to help me do what is best for my babies then by all means please do it.
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i was not going to reply to any of this stuff, but i have to say as a former member and a new member i am shocked ....everyone needs to chill and agree to disagree..
ann
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Moderators...Moderate!
They do not pick sides depending on likes and dislikes, they do not decide IF someone is offended or not, they do not randomly remove people because of a conspiracy to "get rid of someone", they do not just "take one or two or three" members "word for it"...they are sent links to the site members finds "offending" and review it. They do not judge that person based on their post, nor base the complaints they receive on what a member may or may not contibute to the site.
I read this, then I read this,
We’ve had several complaints about your responses, or the way in which you respond to posts. We’ve even had members leave.......
Note: I have not seen the posts… I’m responding from the large number of complaints.
So which is it? Are they taking the word of the complainers as they claim in the email, or are they researching the complaints?
I think the thing that has everyone involved so upset in this matter is that nothing has been done to back up the complaints or resolve the individual's request for proof. Maybe if that was done, this subject would finally go away.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz!!! No offense folks, but this is old and boring. I'd love to read some more posts about your doggies, Please! - ZZZZZZZZzzzzz. ......
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More than enough has been said about this topic. Respect the board and the members on it please. Any other comments or questions on this topic can be addressed to your moderators from here on. Thank you!