Big Paws Only Dog Forums
Mountain Dogs => Bernese Mountain Dog Discussions => : bernerbuddy February 26, 2006, 01:25:19 PM
-
We had a Berner who was the most wonderful dog ever-until the histiocytosis hit at age 9 and a half (and we were lucky, as you all know). This round we got a hybrid. Her father is a full pedigree Berner and her mother is a German Shepherd Chow-Chow mix--she is gorgeous and wonderful, with the berner build and temperment. Our idea is to breed her with another full Berner to make Bernese Mountain Chowpherds. While AKC breeders may not engage in this kind of cross-breeding, their practices of strict breeding within shrinking genepools created the problems our large purebred dogs now have. Breeding in some healthy outside genes actually just reproduces the natural way these dogs developed--but that is another, longer story. The short one is, we are looking for the proud family of a proud father of the first litter of Bernese Mountain Chowpherds!
-
Are you breeding more for temperment or the look? Do you have pictures?
-
Can you tell me...
How is breeding a dog of mixed breeds (both of which have as many of the same genetic health problems) make a healthier dog? Also why would one choose to instate temperaments, natural drives, and body structures that are nothing like BMDs?
Also you state your dog will bring in healthy genes? How do you know this? Have the hips, elbows, heart, thyroid been OFA'd? Eyes cerf?
If you are worried about the state of BMDs in this country and want to add good quality genes why not look into importing some?
-
I do not have a Bernese Mountain Dog, although I think they are lovely, and have heard that their tempermant is wonderful as well. Having said that; I respectfully disagree with two statements in your post.
 While AKC breeders may not engage in this kind of cross-breeding, their practices of strict breeding within shrinking genepools created the problems our large purebred dogs now have.
The problems that our large breed dogs now have has been caused by irresponsible breeding practices within any genepool. People that have not done their homework or any of the screening as Vdoglover has very diplomatically pointed out. People that have had very nice, very pretty dogs that they have wanted to reproduce although they were not always a very good representitive of the breed standard, and did so indiscriminate ly.
Breeding in some healthy outside genes actually just reproduces the natural way these dogs developed--but that is another, longer story.
Aside from some very isolated breeds from places like Japan with the Kai or Shiba Inu, very little about todays breeds developed naturally. Most of them have been cross bred by human beings so that they rarely resemble the origanal breeds a hundred years ago. Actually, practices such as these change the original breeds, often into extinction.
While I have nothing against mixed breed dogs, I in fact have one that was a rescue, I find far too many mixed breeds on venues like "Petfinder" to even contemplate bringing more into the world. I respect your right to do as you please with your animals, but I hope you will not be too surprised or offended if I hope also that you reconsider.
Stella
-
I don't think this is a good idea at all!!! :(...Sorry if I seem blunt but it's been a very trying day with my own mix, Rosie...I guess she'd be a Kuvador. ::)
-
I'm sure they will be beautiful dogs, however I do feel I should express my opinion on your comment, "their practices of strict breeding within shrinking genepools created the problems our large purebred dogs now have." The problems were created a long time in the past, before the benefits of hip scoring, heart checks and a better understanding of genetics. You only have to look at breed standards in the USA or UK to realise that the emphasis is on creating good healthy dogs free from the problems of the past. It is the irresponsible for profit breeder and the uneducated buyer that perpetuate these problems. You cannot legislate against these people without effecting everyones freedom to choose.
This is why I welcome and contribute to web sites like this. To improve my understanding of our Big pawed companions.
-
While AKC breeders may not engage in this kind of cross-breeding, their practices of strict breeding within shrinking genepools created the problems our large purebred dogs now have.
I've been biting my lip on this thread, but I can't hold back no longer.
Have you had your girl's hips scored and every other genetic test you should have done for all 3 breeds? Do you know the genetic good health of all of her grandparents and their ancestors? No person would allow you to use a good quality stud dog who's had all his genetic tests done. So far from doing the breed a favour, it will be YOU who will be breeding goodness knows what genetic problems into your Bernese Chowperds, YOU that will be causing the breed more problems in the future and you that will be breeding puppies that are likely to end up in rescue or even being put to sleep due to health problems.
AKC breeders are usually very particular about their stock and it's good health as it simply doesn't pay for them to breed substandard stock. A lot of the reason that purebred dogs seem to have more health problems than mongrels is that the small gene pool brings genes to the surface that have been there since dogs were wolves and with responsible breeders and careful breeding it can actually be bred out over a few generations. However, mongrels DO get problems, but because there is no written record of the ancestors, like there are with many pedigrees, there is no way of checking if their siblings or parents died of the same thing. Hybrid vigour is just a short sighted pipe dream.
Also most good AKC breeders have waiting lists for their puppies and many are spoken for before they are even born. Please do your research before you bring more unwanted puppies into the world.
-
Quote from Senghe:
"However, mongrels DO get problems, but because there is no written record of the ancestors, like there are with many pedigrees, there is no way of checking if their siblings or parents died of the same thing."
This is absolutely true. My friend has a beautiful and otherwise healthy shep/chow mix who has recently been diagnosed with severe hip displasia. My dog Nigel, a mixed breed, has 5 siblings who all have serious hip problems, one being confirmed as hip displasia.
-
AKC breeders are usually very particular about their stock and it's good health as it simply doesn't pay for them to breed substandard stock.
Maybe the ones you know personally. My own observation is that is NOT at all the case generally.
The sad fact of the matter is that most BYB's AKC register. It's how they sucker people into paying show dog prices for BY puppies--that registration.
And most BYB's couldn't care less about your puppy once they cash your check. That's why we hate them, isn't it?
I'm not at all in favor of crossbreeding anything, unless you've got 5 or 10 generations of clear medical reports on all sides before you start your first F1 generation, so don't go thinking I think Bernese Chowperds a good idea--but at the same time, PLEASE don't pretend AKC cares about anything more than their registration fees.
If AKC were remotely interested in promoting the proper breeding of healthy dogs, they'd require top level scores on the appropriate health tests for each separate breed to even REGISTER an animal, never mind show or breed it.
JUST DON'T START UP WITH THE CHOWPERDS, Bernerbuddy. PLEASE.
Before you even consider it one more second, you need to do a lot of hardcore research into developing breeds--the Shiloh Shepherd and the American Mastiff are two I've looked into for example--to see just how much really hard, serious, scientifc methodology goes into creating a "new" breed with anything CLOSE to a responsible approach.
Sorry if I'm a little short, but I'm having an exceptionally :o bossy day today (GRRRRRRRR! I need to bite my boss!)
-
Hmmmmm. I have a feeling that this is not what Bernerbuddy was looking for.
Here's the thing. I have purebred dogs because I am fairly sure of what I'm getting. A Newf has a certain prescibed look, personality, and health expectations. That's why I love them. I'm pretty sure that's what I'm getting. I think mixed breeds can be wonderful, but I'm at a stage in my life where I really don't want big surprises. Mixed breeds can be a gamble. The people who breed a purebred, in the best case, are devoted to improving the breed and will stand behind them. There are rescue associations devoted to caring for them if it's needed.
In what you are wanting to breed, you COULD get the aloofness of of the Chow, the agressiveness of a shepard, and the size of a Berner with the overlay of the suseptablility of a particularly nasty form of cancer....wors t case scenario, of course...but it could happen. Why is what you are creating a better bet than what I could get at my local humane society??? With absolutely no better safety net than my local humane society?? I can see NO benefit other than you love your dog and would love to see the puppers. Puppers are good if you have loving homes for all of them and are willing to take them back if necessary. It seems to be quite a commitment to me!
I wish you all the best, but hope you rethink this plan. I can see no benefit to anybody....exc ept maybe you because you love your dog so much....
Good luck!
-
Maybe the ones you know personally. My own observation is that is NOT at all the case generally.
The sad fact of the matter is that most BYB's AKC register. It's how they sucker people into paying show dog prices for BY puppies--that registration.
And most BYB's couldn't care less about your puppy once they cash your check. That's why we hate them, isn't it?
Fair point in a lot of ways. But believe it or not, there are still some old fashioned people left out there who want to show and breed dogs and develop their own line over the years. They believe in the art of dog breeding, not raising a cash crop to pay for their next holiday. And the honest breeder's pups are going to be AKC registered unless they are a rare breed not recognised yet.
There does seem to be a misconception with the general public that a kennel club registration certificate of any kind is an automatic guarantee of a healthy well bred dog. But as they say, there's one born every minute and if you don't do your research it will proverbially bite you in the a*s.
I think the problem is that many BYB's are smooth talkers and unfortunately don't have BAD BREEDER written across their forehead so we can tell easily who's good and who's not. But a lot of people buy a dog with less care and checks than if they were buying an inanimate object like a washing machine. This is where the main problems is as if there was no market for dogs - registered or not - that had been poorly bred, they wouldn't breed them. But when lots of people have the attitude that their kid wants a chi because Paris Hilton has one and they want it yesterday, what do you expect?
-
I'm reminded of the movie "Die Hard 3" The scene early in the movie, where McClain (Bruce Willis) suddenly finds himself standing in Harlem, half naked, wearing a sign that expresses an unpopular opinion. Unfortuanly for Bernerbuddy, there will not be a Zeus (Samuel L. Jackson) character coming to his rescue.
-
I'm beginning to lothe the AKC because people think that they stand for quality or are somehow involved in the producing of quality dogs. They AREN'T. THEY ARE A REGISTRATION BODY AND THAT IS ALL. The AKC is a social security number for dogs. You get the number you can participate in AKC events and your children can be registered AKC. That's it. If you have a complaint about a breeder, don't go to the AKC because as long as they pay their fees and don't falsify papers, the AKC doesnt' care. Go to the breed club. Sorry but I hit 4 different groups today before I got to this post and they ALL had posts about the AKC somehow being INVOLVED in dogs. It's not.
-
As I see it, the problem is not the AKC. The AKC is what it always has been, as Ang stated, a simple registry. Plug the correct (or not correct)numbers into the corosponding line in the application and poof!, you have a registered dog.It actually means very little, other than if you are going to show, in which case you have already done your homework and have the best representitive of the breed that you can find.
The problem is that the consumer is lazy, and expects the AKC to do the homework for them. Don't take the time or effort to research your breed, don't bother to check out the breeder, just go to Bubba, down the way. He always has puppies, so he MUST know what he is doing. And they have PAPERS!! Never mind that those papers mean about as much as a roll of Charmin. After alll, I want that pup NOW!! Senghi has a very sad and valid point in that most people put more care and concern into their next appliance than their next companion. You and I are not going to stop the BYB, the AKC is not going to stop the BYB (it is not what they are there for), educating the consumer WILL stop the BYB. If you take away the market you take away the incentive--profit.
That is why boards like this, that can address issues in a calm, non-confrontational manner are so important. They are our best bet for educating the largest number of people in a relatively short time and with greatest effect.
Just my Opinion, for what it is worth.
Stella
-
The AKC is what it always has been, as Ang stated, a simple registry.
Except (and I'm not trying to hurt any feelings, apologies right now, but I feel really passionately about this) THAT'S NOT HOW THE CURRENT AKC REGIME REPRESENTS THE ORGANIZATION to the general public!
The AKC uses splashy televised "dog shows" with lots of judges with high sounding qualifications to promote the idea that AKC knows everything there is to know about dogs. Most people learn 75% of what they know about pure bred dogs from the blurbs on these dog shows. The AKC COULD use these shows to educate the public about the realities of owning dogs, breeding, breeders, etc., but instead focuses on running as many dogs past the camera as possible, spending less than a minute on each dog. It's rare to hear or see even a mention of a breed club. You talk about educating consumers as being the key to the whole pyramid--this is where is SHOULD be being done, but AKC won't do it.
The problem is that the consumer is lazy, and expects the AKC to do the homework for them.
AKC encourages this belief in every way possible. The brand is used to promote all kinds of clinics about dog ownership, to promote training and various other competitive certifications like obedience and the CGC. The public face of the AKC is that of a genial grandpa or grandma, out there trying to help everyone, including dogs, enjoy a happy life.
They even have other companies referencing "Find out more on the AKC website" in ads for products and various dog related programming.
In the meantime, behind the curtain, they take VAST amounts of money from evil and/or stupid people to register disastrously bred puppies that at least as often as not break the hearts and the wallets of the people who buy them.
And the organization gets away with it because if anyone calls them out, "they're just the registry."
AKC has leveraged the brand to turn itself into conventional wisdom's ultimate authority about dogs and their best welfare. Having done that deliberately (and with $$ signs in their eyes) I think it's incumbent on the organization to actually start acting in the best interests of dogs and their welfare.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Yes, I'm on a huge tear. Ask me why!
Because I had to walk past the puppies in the window when I went to the mall just now for lunch--the escalators on the north side that I use to avoid that devil place are being worked on for the next six months. Every time I see those glass walls and those poor babies, it's all I can do not to bite every person in the store, especially the manager!
AKC, my big fat butt. >:( ::) :'(
GGGRRRRRAAAAAH HHHHHHAAAAAAAA RRRRR!!
Just so mad. I'll bite an AKC board member too, if I can find one.
-
I gotta agree with you!!! If you are going to rant this is a great subject to rant about! I was appalled when I found out that Josh, that gorgeous Newf who won Westminster is so dysplastic that he couldn't be certified...an d all the puppies that he's sired all have horribly deformed hips. And that's the best the AKC could find to promote? I don't know about the health of the other breeds, but why can't they insist on having CERTIFIED dogs to show at these shows? The implication is that these are BREEDING dogs (they have to be intact to show, right???) so shouldn't their health be certified? Shouldn't the MOST healthy as well as the best looking of the breed win??
-
See, there's a reason not to snip Chester unti he's old enoough to certify all his health issues.
Puppies may need his genes! Imagine, if you will, this choice:
A healthy, happy, fully health certified Chester vs. Award winning, but dysplatic Joe Dog
Any responsible breeder SHOULD want The Chest, shouldn't he/she?!
That's why I think AKC is SO horrible and irresponsible. They promote the concept of "champion" over the concept of "health", when the latter should be a prerequisite for attaining the former!
And they don't do a blessed thing about evil pet stores that lock babies in glass houses where nasty spoiled children knock on the glass where the tag says "AKC" on every card.
To quote Snoopy: "My teeth itch. I want to bite somebody."
Really, really, REALLY hard.
-
I'll be part of your pack! GRRRRRR!
-
Despite the fact that you chose to attack my post I have stated my opinion, stand by it as such, and simply agree to disagree.
Stella
-
I think we are all saying basically the same thing. The AKC presents itself as an authority and by establishing standards for each breed, implies that it will enforce the standards. That would, logically, imply that health issues would be part of the standards, when in fact, the health is not addressed in any way.
Education should be first and foremost and it doesn't seem to be except the broadest sense. (get your dog checked by a vet regularly...so rt of education) There is nothing about how to find good breeders, what to look for when you are looking at a puppy or an adult dog. It is JUST a registry.
I wish they were more proactive in education but there does not seem to be any movement in that direction. I have learned more in the time on this site than I have ever learned from an AKC website, TV show or dog show. People are more patient explaining the fine points of dog-loving than anybody I've met at a dog show. That said, everybody really is too busy to do much education at a dog show!!! I wish there was a class that the AKC would sponsor in elementary school about how to take care of a dog properly...I would think that would be invaluable in educating the next generation.
....imho...... ;)
-
If they educated they'd lose money. Simple as that. No reason to get all dramatized about it.
If I had to chose an AKC dog or an UKC I'd choose UKC. If I had to choose between AKC and a scam registry I'd choose AKC/
-
First, I'd like to thank everyone for your posts. We of course knew that our decision to pursue backyard breeding of a 75% Berner would be controversial and I respect your opinions, and am particularly impressed with the respectfulness and intelligence of most of the posts. Thanks.
1) Here is a picture of two of the girls from the Berner/Chow/Shepherd litter. There were seven in the litter, one male and six females; five of the seven had markings and coloration closer to the father (Berner), two closer to the mother. This pic is of two sisters, the chow-colored one is our Pye.
2) I do think we can agree that among AKC-certified breeders of all purebred dogs including Berners, there are good ones and bad ones. Many of us, me included, are neither "against" the breeding of purebreds nor the adoption of mixed breeds. Where we understand things differently involves my statement that many of the specific problems that plague particular breeds came out of breeding practices that required drawing from in some cases very small gene pools for the sake of breed purity. It is certainly true that there are responsible breeders who try to select for good hips and eyes, and with any sensible person I would recommend such breeders over bad ones if you want a dog with better chances of avoiding these problems. But what is little discussed and understood is that these very practices--OFA certification is a perfect example--have had the general effect of severely shrinking an already in-bred gene pool even more.Â
3) So why the resistance to producing a litter of wonderful pets with many of the characteristic s I cherish in the Berners and with a greater chance of avoiding their health problems? Of course there is no guarantee of the future health of any litter, but can it seriously be challenged that such dogs are more likely to avoid those health problems? Specific research on particular mixes is obviously lacking. On the other hand, in a case such as histiocytosis, I don't know why one poster assumes that because there is a gene (even if it is spelled in capital letters!) for it, it can be passed on just as easily. Virtually limited as this particular disease is to two breeds, isn't it likely the gene is recessive? Isn't it probable it is passed on and on and on precisely because of the breeding practices we are talking about?Â
4) I've hit a nerve because people have strong opinions about purebreds and mongrels. That's fine. I have thought about having a blog on this topic because of all the misunderstandi ngs that are out there about the subject. But what I really don't understand is why people translate these feelings into the ideology that it is a "bad idea" or even morally "wrong" for me to have these beautiful pets.Â
Not to unleash another firestorm! I have appreciated your posts! Oh, and
5) Anybody with a nice Berner stud want him to meet Pye?
-
Resistance from me comes from knowing how many BEAUTIFUL dogs are down at the local shelter needing homes, and countless animals in foster homes waiting to be adopted!!
Please go to your local shelter and see for yourself. And take a look on Petfinder.com. Do you REALLY think the world needs more dogs??? ???
If you do that and understand fully just how many unwanted dogs there are, and you still think you want to breed this litter, then none of us here are going to get through to you in any way from any angle. :'(
-
In quick reply to the last post--this is precisely the discussion I wanted to avoid in this forum. Perhaps you are among the minority of people who is against any dog breeding as long as there are dogs to be adopted. If you are not, then what you mean is I have the "right" to breed a purebred Bernese mountain dog, but not a hybrid. You believe in limiting the rights of reproduction to purebred dogs as long as there are any dogs in any shelters.
I respectfully disagree with this position. Full disclosure: I am a professional historian who has done work on the intellectual history of eugenics. While dog breeding is a long-standing cultural practice on more than one continent, the hsitory of the establishment of the UKC and AKC is closely and directly related to the eugenics movement, and so is the moralist population politics that insists on the sterilization of all "impure" animals. I do respect your decision to get your dog from a shelter, and have done so myself; I have also gotten a dog from an AKC-registered breeder, and from a backyard hybrid-breeder. I do somewhat resent the implication that I need to be "gotten through to," in your words, but presumably would not if I got a dog from a breeder or a pound. No one's likely to get through to anyone in these matters of deeply ingrained ideology, but I would settle if some posters would rethink their insistence that there is something immoral about not restricting the reproduction of a beautiful and beloved animal because she is not 'pure.'Â
And so here's another pic of the horrible little creature--she was the product of another litter that was both 'illegitimate' and planned. How I thank my stars every day!Â
-
I'm going to refrain from answering the points you've brought up because it seems we all have our walls that we are not willing to cross. Your philosphy is fine if all the pups have homes. I think that is all everyone is trying to say. Please make sure there are enough people out there who want your 'hybrids' so that none have to go to the humane society. Please be willing to take them back if the adoptions fall through. It's just about taking responsibility for the lives you are bringing in to the world.
Good luck
-
I think breeding dogs of any kind needs to be restricted. It has gotten way out of hand. I wouldn't encourage you to breed dogs even if they were purebred. I am involved in canine rescue and I see firsthand what a huge problem there is, and yes I wish that people would give the dog breeding a BIG BREAK. It is not fun and games, it is not "oh let's breed a cute litter of pups it'll be fun". It is LIFE. And so much of that life is being wasted. The leading cause of death in dogs is euthanasia. Don't you care?
"And so here's another pic of the horrible little creature"
Give me a break.
You knew you were going to be met with resistance when you posted. For all I know you posted to get an argument.
Personally, I just don't see how anyone who cared about dog overpopulation could breed ANY litter of puppies. And that is my opinion. I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread in the first place, because it seems that no matter how many homeless dogs I try to help out, there will always be someone down the street breeding another litter. :'( :'( :'(
-
Time to step back everyone.
As we all know, each member of this board has strong feelings on both sides of this discussion. All that is building in this thread is tempers and emotions. That is not what BPO is about.
Let's see pics of puppies. Let's talk about our family members that we have rescued, purchased or bred. Let's ask advice about a health issue. Let's not condemn each other for what we feel.
Tina
I'm sorry. It is true I am overly emotional right now with dog issues. :(
-
If you do breed I am begging to make sure ALL of the puppies have homes and be responsible enough to take them back. The shelter's are overflowing and no one should add to that. I have a purebred great pyrenees and a mixed puppy I rescued from a shelter. I love them both dearly. They are both young yet that health problems are unknown. Just be reponsible!
-
I agree with Tina, specifically, it is time for me to take a giant step back. But before I go...
Bernerbuddy, you may have noticed that we have very few berner parents here, and most of our dogs(pure bred or not) are nuetered or spayed. You may have more success posting your request for a proud Papa on a berner specific site. If you do, let us know, as I'd love to watch the show.
Stepping back now...
Stella
-
I am less bitey today than I was yesterday.
Sorry if I nipped really hard, Stella. The sight of an AKC sign in a pet store cage does it to me every single time. It's like putting a match to powder, and I just explode.
Bernerbuddy, let me say again what I said before:
I'm not at all in favor of crossbreeding anything, unless you've got 5 or 10 generations of clear medical reports on all sides before you start your first F1 generation.
The thing about this particular breeding that makes me stand up and say, "WAAAIIITTT a minute there, cowboy" is that you don't seem have a detailed picture of what genetics you're looking at potential mixing. I think that Julie's point about multi-gene issues is well taken. Unless you've looked really extensive into the health and genetics of your potential mix dogs, you just don't know exactly what genes may be coming into play.
That's my concern. Because you ARE breeding out of three limited gene pools, and it doesn't seem like you have a long enough history on the dogs you're considering crossing to know what recessives are be out there hiding in Pye's sibling pools, just waiting to combine with the recessives of the other gene pool and turn into a genetic bomb.
Please. If you're absolutely set on this, at least do some more research into at LEAST the sibs of your pair?? Pretty please??
I'll return to biting pet store people now.
-
Thanks, Julie, for the links, and I do appreciate your knowledge and experience! I am concerned about Berner mixes having some of the same problems as purebreds. As for the rest, obviously I'm not euthanizing any puppies and there won't be any shelters getting my dogs. Emotions do run high on these issues and I think that's fine because it's coming out of care for animals. The problems we have as a society dealing with animals are all coming from people who do not share this care for animals, and that is important to remember. So I can hardly be mad at anyone's remarks, even the most intemperate ones, when those come from someone volunteering her time and effort for rescues.Â
I've been to the shelter in Pontiac, Michigan, when I was still mourning my Berner and thinking about his successor--it is absolutely full of pit bull mixes, all refuse from our vibrant dogfighting industry. The saints at the shelter do not destroy any nonaggressive dogs no matter how long it takes to adopt them. The social issues leading to the destruction of animal life in this country are complex, but they do come down to thoughtless, irresponsible, or as in these cases really criminally negligent ownership by humans. The assumptions by many posters that a reasoned decision by a dog owner to allow a particularly wonderful dog to have a litter is the cause of these problems are.. well, I said it before, ideological, and could be thought through a little more.Â
cheers
-
Bernerbuddy... ..The pics of the dogs you're posting don't look any different than what you can find on petfinder.com, petharbor.com etc...etc...et c... You're basically breeding a "mutt" and much like the other breeders of "mutts" on craigslist and other such sites you'll probably charge a pretty penny for them. So with that said, what makes you different from any other back yard breeder? Will you make a potential buyer sign a contract to spay/neuter? Will you take the dog back if there are problems? What about hereditary problems that ALL big dogs encounter whether they are mixed or purebred? Explain to all of us how you're going to be different ?
-
As for the rest, obviously I'm not euthanizing any puppies and there won't be any shelters getting my dogs.
How do you know that? Unless you keep every single puppy she has, you can't guarantee that somebody isn't going to dump one of your puppies at any time in it's possible 12 year life span or even worse, breed off that and not care where the puppies end up. And you can't keep them all.
The assumptions by many posters that a reasoned decision by a dog owner to allow a particularly wonderful dog to have a litter is the cause of these problems are.. well, I said it before, ideological, and could be thought through a little more.
I can understand how much you love your dog and your wish to have more like her. I mean, look at the millionaire who's funding the 'Missiplicity' canine cloning project because he'd like a genetic replica of his beloved spayed pound dog. The thing is, each and every one of us here has particularly wonderful dogs, just like your girl is to you. However, we don't mistake a 'reasoned decision' for our hearts ruling our heads. I'd suggest you are the idealogical one that could think things out a little more if you think a lot of those gorgeous dogs in shelters that get put to sleep every hour of the day aren't the offspring of dogs just like yours. Not all are abused dogs or fighting pitbulls - many are friendly dogs who are just not wanted as their owners have taken on a cute puppy without thinking it's going to grow up and need training and exercising. They haven't kicked the dog about or fought it, but they've probably got sick of coming home from working 8 hours to find the dog has eaten half the furniture barked it's head off all day through boredom and upset the neighbours. And then there's the dogs that have simply fallen on hard times and their owners just can't keep them due to moving or a divorce etc... And as you well know, most shelters just don't have the time or funds to keep all the really nice dogs that need homes. If you think otherwise, you really are in some kind of denial.
Like it or not, your 'reasoned decision' will directly or indirectly add to the problem. I know you probably think you have very noble intentions, but you need to do a lot more reserarch about canine genetics, think about what is involved in rearing puppies (they don't just pop out like shelling peas and if anything goes wrong, you could end up with a very sick or dead mommy dog, same goes for the puppies and a very large vet bill to pay) and question is it really responsible to bring more innocent canine lives into the world when the shelters are full of dogs that live and die without ever knowing a loving home like your girl is lucky enough to.
I'm not commenting in this thread any further as I feel like I'm banging my head in a brick wall... hey, you don't want to use a lovely young male Tibetan Mastiff? He looks a bit like a Bernese, I can tell you the excellent hip scores of every single one of his ancestors back to the original imports from Nepal 20 years ago - many of these dogs reached their mid teens in age. We could have Tibetan Mountain Chowperd puppies. ;D
Don't worry listers, I'm a full continent away. ;)
-
The problem with Recessive genes is that they lie dormant, and pop up when you have two carriers. By then it's too late. You can't possibly know who has what until it's too late. And when mixing breeds, they aren't all going to carry the same testing info. One of the few genetic maladies that isn't prevalent in Danes is Central Progressive Retinal Atrophy. They don't get tested for it, because it isn't a problem in the breed. However, cross a carrier Dane with a Golden who's passed the test (But is still a carrier), and a larger percentage (if not all the pups) will either have it or be carriers.
Personally I loathe designer mixes. I think that they are the utmost selfish act. To create a puppy cocktail so you get exactly what you want, leaving a litter of puppies (if you're lucky) or hundreds of puppies (if you're not) in the wake. I don't think people with a lack of in deppth genetics knmowledge should ever breed, show or no show, work dog or no work dog. With all the recognized breeds (NOT just AKC and UKC) out there, there is probably something that will fit you anyways. This is all just MY PERSONAL OPINION.
Honestly though have you thoroughly researched all the bad (along with the good) that could come from breedings like this? Have you thought of the temperament issues (Chows and shepherds are notorious for "iffy" temperaments), or the fact that genetic black and tan dogs typically have immunity issues (One of the reasons that they're more apt to contract parvo than another colored dog). These are things that have to be considered and weighed if they're worth the risk. Does anyone else have your "Vision"? Do you really have the forethought and follow through to create an all new breed? Or will they just stop with you?
If you want a website to support you wholeheartedly I can give you a link.