Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : Kelly89084 March 06, 2006, 04:21:58 PM
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How would you handle4 a bad mannered dog at the park? Some (usually goldens :() are bad with other dogs and most people will do somethig about their dogs if something comes up but how do you handle the ones that don't? Sun morning i took my son with me to the dog park because he likes to run around throwing balls for our dog. While there he got grabbed by a great dane. He wasn't roughed up and clearly the young dog/puppy was just trying to play but what I don't get was the owners attitude. She said "he's ok" in reference to my son after her dog grabbing him and then proceeded to tell me that she didn't stop her fdog because she thought it was going to bite HER son instead of mine! First of all, shouldn't you keep a closer eye on your dog when you know it bites kids? There are usually kids in the park with their dogs and on this day there were several. Second, why if you know your dog has this issue, don't you train it instead of blaming your son for knowing better than to run around her (the dog). I honestly didn't know what to say to this woman. She never even raised her voice to tell the dog to stop! Nor did she hurry over to make sure her dog didn't do serioius harm to my son. What's worse, there most of the kids there were toddlers or just over so what if your dog had been "just playing" with one of them? My son had two teeth marks and a scratch on his arm but it could have been worse! I just don't know what to do with people like that! >:(
Sorry, needed to vent a bit. Any suggestions about how to handle her next time? She's a regular so unfortunately she and her ill-mannered dogs will be back.
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I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sucks that people don't train their dog not to bite even their own kid. I don't have any advice and this probably doesn't help, but our doggy playgroup doesn't allow kids. It stinks because I know my daughter would love to play with all the dogs. However, I do understand the reasoning behind it. We're getting a true dog park hopefully in April and I'm not sure if they'll allow kids or not. Good luck next time.
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You know...people can be totally clueless at times specially when animals are concerned. I get angry most of the time when we go to the dog park because of the attitude of the dog owners. If my child or dog had been bitten (even in playing)I would have wanted to say something but probably wouldn't have. >:( Like you I often don't know what to say at that moment. I surely would have called my best friend, my husband and my mom to vent and then come here where I know people would understand. ;)
I'm sorry you had this encounter. Hopefully the next time you run into this woman she'll have the common sense to take control of her animal.
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I've been to several dog parks around Houston and I've RARELY seen kids. In fact, I don't think I've EVER seen anyone under the age of 18 out with their dog. Why would you take your toddler to a dog park? Toddlers are just the right size for herding, you know?
As for the lady with the "playful" great dane -- she's the reason The Dog Whisperer is making so much money (and he's worth every penny!). People try to treat their dogs like another child, and THEY'RE NOT CHILDREN. They're dogs. Wonder what she would have done if one of the kids had walked up to her kid and sunk his teeth into her kid's arm?
Maybe you could suggest a good trainer for her -- you know, in a really SWEET way. Tell her you heard from BPO that Danes need "special attention." In fact, I mentioned BPO to a guy at the park the other day, cause he has a puppy dane and he seemed really interested to know there were people here who had experience raising Great Danes.
Stupid dog park lady.
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I usually get after my son for running unless we're the only ones there or I know the other dogs. He's 7 1/2 btw. What ticked me off is that she knew the dog had issues with biting and yet does nothng to fix the problem and the fact that she just sort of blew the whole thing off. Hello! Your dog bit someone! It's serious and should be treated that way. Especially with such a large dog. and what if Holly or any other dog had taken issue to her boy being "played with" in such a manner? i'm sure she would have been upset about the time my dog sank her teeth into her dog. Nice to know Holly is so protective of us btw. ::)
Sorry, i've been holding it in so I need to let it out. ;)
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It depends on how nasty you want to get but next time you could tell her that if her dog bite's your child or anyone else's child that you are calling animal control. The dog will be impounded for 10 days and she will have to pay a fine and to bail her dog out of puppy prison. Then you could ask her if she would like to train her dog not to grab people or would she like someone else to do it for her. Then it's been made perfectly clear to her that a mouthy dog is unacceptable.
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I think I would have said something about her controlling her pet. If she got snotty, I would have let her know that I was getting in touch with animal control and the authorities. <I liked KFC's answer too> We ALL love animals or we wouldn't be on BPO. But no one, fur or skin is going to hurt my son if I can do ANYTHING to prevent it. I would have questioned her why she would bring her dog into a public area like that if he is unstable enough to bite her OWN son...I don't know, maybe I am not tactful enough, but while I wouldn't go postal, I certainly wouldn't walk on eggshells. He didn't do damage to YOUR son THIS time...what who knows about next time with someone elses child. Scary thought. I would just be careful around them from now on. Best of luck! :)
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Oh, I'm so sorry to hear this happened at a dog park. I would hate to see that dog as an adult if she can't teach it bite inhibition now while it's still young.
If you see her again (b/c like you I would have been dumbfounded until we/she left) and see the dog acting a bit too rambuctious, I would simply ask her to leave (get someone to help you if needed) for the safety of the other children. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable when children are present.
We don't have that many kids that frequent our park and the parents usually make sure they stay on or near the benches to avoid injury.
But believe me, if that happened a second time to my kid, I would be disciplining the dog myself if the owner is just going to stand there. If you can't handle your own dog, then don't get one, especially one that might outweigh you. You have every right to vent on this. I cannot believe some people.
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My kids have visited dog parks, and they know that it's not for them, it's for the dogs! So my kids don't run around (bacause they may get chased), and they know to stay within an arm's reach of me while in the dog park. Outside the dog park, then the dogs are within arm's reach and the kids can run around. It's part of protecting both my kids and my dogs.
My dogs would never hurt my kids, but other people's dogs may not be used to children and may not react predictably. Having said that, it always happens that the friendliest dog takes a liking to my son, and follows him around trying to lick him (which my son doesn't like!).
But I think that woman needs to take responsibility for her dog and apologize! Good luck avoiding her in the future!
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None of our dog parks allow people under 18 unsupervised, and NO CHILDREN UNDER 8 AT ALL. Personally I think it's a wonderful policy, not only to protect children, but to protect the dogs.
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Our local dog park does not allow children under 12. It is as much for the safety of the kids as it is the dogs.
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All of our local dog parks are part of the children's park/play area so even if the kids aren't going into the fenced area, they are still at risk of being biten just walking around the playground or sidewalks. If a dog can't get along with kids and/or bites them "just playing" then they shouldn't be allowed at the dog park. It is/was the kid's park first. Personally, I would never tolerate that kind of behavior from any pet of mine and I see no reason for others to do so. I don't allow my kids to harrass the dogs, the dogs shouldn't harrass my kids.
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I had an experience almost as bad as that. our new dog park is really nice, but i really feel bad for the people with pits or rotties or dobers. (or akitas, or chows, the list goes on). any way, one day there was this sweet little pit bull, and she was playing really nice with all the dogs, and tollerated the rude dogs well. her owner was great too, if the dog got to rough she would correct her. if she wandered too far, the dog was called back. other ppl at the park noticed she was "very well behaved for a pit bull", but said if she got near their dog, they would be "very unhappy". i was really mad for the owner when a doberman owner said he didn't trust pits. a DOBERMAN owner!!!! shouldn't they understand most of all what it is like having a misunderstood breed like that? and that same day, a couple cops walked by and they came in to play with the dogs on their lunch break. they were talking to me when Shasta (the pit) ran up and stared playing w/ my westie and my "others". the owner followed soon after, and was automatecally questioned under the phrase "there was a brown dog that attacked someone last night-was it yours?" i was so mad i wanted to just kill that officer!!! i tried to stand up for the guy, but the cops said "please miss, we are handling this" handling what? we were all doing fine until they came up, and they had no right to accuse any one. it was so upsetting, and i am sad to say that Shasta has never been seen at the dog park since then. we all miss her-we even talked about how she was a good influence on OUR dogs!
This is not nearly as bad as someone getting bit, but dog parks are home to many wrong doings of the dog world :( i wish they served as a good place for dog people to meet and talk, while their dogs play. that was the reason for building a dog park-right?
I hope this kinda makes sense, it is late (4 me!)and i have to get up at 4 tomarrow, so i will see y'all later!
Leah
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All of our local dog parks are part of the children's park/play area so even if the kids aren't going into the fenced area, they are still at risk of being biten just walking around the playground or sidewalks. If a dog can't get along with kids and/or bites them "just playing" then they shouldn't be allowed at the dog park. It is/was the kid's park first. Personally, I would never tolerate that kind of behavior from any pet of mine and I see no reason for others to do so. I don't allow my kids to harrass the dogs, the dogs shouldn't harrass my kids.
I understand what you're saying about the biting. Totally understand, however what if a dog is otherwise fine, just scared of children? They can't go to the park? Plus, it's for their safety, as kids might get in the middle of two dogs playing or running and get trampled. Or even though you don't let your kids harrass dogs, other parents might not keep a tight rein on their kids, or (As I've seen at my dog park alot) a kid who's been told they "Have a way with animals" goes up to any dog and tries to pet it or have it follow them, or "Teach it a trick." Plus kids trying to play with strange dogs, strange dogs playing back and the kid gets hurt. I just don't think that it's a good idea.
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This is part of the reason that we do not do dog parks. Although my dogs are "good" woth kids, and raised with a multitude of children in and out all the time, I do not trust other people's kids to be "good" with my dogs. Therefor I set up play dates with people and animals that I know well and avoid the entire scene. Besides which, I can't afford repeated bail.
Stella
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I think that one's opinion on this debate/conversation/whatever is certainly biased based on whether or not you have kids. Its easy to say that kids shouldn't be in dog parks when you don't have any. Its kind of sucky to imagine taking the dog (member of the family) to the park to play, but excluding your child (also a member of the family). So, I can see Ang's point, but of course it totally makes sense to me why you'd WANT to bring your kid to the dog park. And I see no problems with the desire to bring your child. You are assuming the risk for your kid, and you should expect a very high level of responsibility and decorum from your dog and your child.
The way I see it, if your kid hasn't been raised well enough to be able to responsibly handle a dog park (at any age) then your dog is probably too naughty to be there, too. I've really never met anyone that has a dog with exemplory manners and a rude child, or vice versa.
The woman in question here had a rude dog and probably a rude kid. Neither should have been there. Kelly has (presumably) a well behaved child AND dog. She deserves to be there. I totally get ya, Ang. Some dogs are awesome with the exception of children. Ok, so if you're going to have your kid at the dog park, the kid needs to know the ground rules. You don't run, you never approach a strange dog, etc. That's just common sense and courtesy. So, I guess what I'm saying is that the debate shouldn't be over whether kids should be there or not, but if you F it up, stay home. Cuz ultimately, its not the kids' fault, or the dog's, its the stupid idiot that has them and doesn't properly raise and train them.
I think that Stella has the right approach. Just keep it all in a controllable situation, and ther are no problems. We don't have a formal dog park. I take Cabeza to the beach. Its like an informal dog park, lots of people go there with their dogs. I always let Cabeza off leash because he stays right with me and is completely oblivious to other dogs. However, I always had Bo on a leash unless nobody was there. Molly (my child) is always with us and I don't know many other kids that can handle dogs like her.
Anyway...just my OH SO HUMBLE opinion... ;D
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I don't think the other woman handled the situation correctly with her dane. I'm guessing it was a puppy? It should've been under supervision and cut off before it even got that far. Its an owners' responsibility to be aware of what our dogs are doing in these situations and to "interupt & redirect" them if they even look like they're going to something 'wrong'.
However, that said, I also don't think that inside dog parks are places for children. Almost every dog park that I've ever been to has had rules not allowing children under a certain age at all, and over that age not without being accompanied by an adult.
I'm a mom of two(6 & 8yrs) and a dog owner, so I can see it from both points of view. Yes it would be nice to have the kids running around and playing with a multitude of dogs and not worry about anything. Sadly that is just too disneyesque for me. Children squeal and run and all too often think that they are immortal. Even the most "well trained" child doesn't listen to his/her parents 100% of the time. Dogs like to chase and pounce running squealing things. I mean, all it takes is the first time with the wrong dog.
Having lived on a unfenced farm with a "pack" of dogs for almost a decade, I learned things about dog behavior that I don't think I would have if I hadn't lived there. All it takes is for one of the dogs' prey drive to kick in and normally all the other dogs follow the first one's que before they even know who, what or why they are chasing something. Yes, I consider my dogs well trained, but they would still take off running a soon as one of them did. Luckily they all have a good recall and could be called off the chase of the cat, rabbit, deer, coyote.. etc. Though I wouldn't bet money on any dog having a 100% instant recall 100% of the time. :)
Then there's the fact that we have no idea how well trained others' dogs are that are in the dog park. I've heard of some dog parks being for member's only and those members having to pay a fee and pass something like a CGC to be able to join. I personally think that might be a great idea, but it would also leave a lot of dogs out. As of now, 2 of my 5 would probably be included in those left out.
Then on the dog owners side, I agree with Stella. You have no idea how other's children are going to act. Some think its perfectly fine to run screaming either towards your dog or away from it. Others were never taught how to properly behave around a dog and think its fine to pull their ears/tail/fur and sit on them or grab its paws to teach it to "give paw".
My kids are disappointed that I don't bring them to dog parks, but for me its my one on one time with whomever I'm bringing. If its an onleash thing, then sure I bring my kids, no problem. :) But lots of strange dogs running around offleash, no thanks. I understand a lot of people don't agree and have never had any problems, but I just wanted to tell the reasoning behind my decision. Best of luck to you.
~moni
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Cole, you must've been writing at the same time..
you summed up perfectly what i was attempting to say, thnx...
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I looked up the RULES for the dog parks in my area. One of the rules is that DOGS MUST BE IN VIEW OF AND WITHIN VOICE CONTROL OF THEIR OWNER/HANDLER AT ALL TIMES and DOGS SHOWING ANY SIGNS OF AGGRESSION MUST BE LEASHED AND IMMEDIATELY REMOVED FROM THE PARK.
See if you can find the rules for your dog park -- maybe that will give you confidence to confront her next time. I would be terrified to point out to someone that their dog is too aggressive, but I would be more terrified if any dog left marks and scratches on my child. Be a mama bear! And I certainly wouldn't hesitate to assert myself to the dog first! Maybe you could show her by example.
p.s. Our park rules also state no one under the age of 12 is allowed. Even though Einstein is a sweetheart and loves kids, I'm conscious of his size -- he looks real cute from a distance and when kids get near him, they're a little intimidated. They WANT to play with him, but when they start backing up, Einstein thinks it's a game. So I never let him off-leash around kids (or anywhere really).
And -- a couple of times while we're playing he's put his teeth around my arm -- not hard and not aggressively -- but the minute that happens, I stand over him and say in my deepest, scariest voice -- NO! and then I ignore him for a little while. Come to think of it, he hasn't tried that in a while.
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I totally agree with what the last few people have said. I have dogs that are great with my kids because I've taught my kids how to behave around dogs and I've taught my dogs how to behave in general.
However, the Great Dane owner probably doesn't have kids and therefore, the dog won't ever know how to react around kids. I, personally, don't take my kids to the dog park unless both my husband and I are there and we are always watching for dogs that don't understand and watching to make sure our kids aren't running, skipping, or yelling. It does suck, but because both kids and dogs can be unpredictable, I prefer to let my kids be kids on the playground and let my dogs be dogs in the dog park.
If my dog did act inappropriatel y toward a kid in a dog park, I'm not sure how I would react. But, I did have a dad once tell me my dog bit his kid (not in a dog park), when I asked to see the "bite", he showed me a mosquito bite. I knew there was no way my dog bit his kid unless his kid broke into my house when I wasn't there (the dogs stay inside when I'm gone and are on leashes at all other times). In that case, I came down hard on him because there's no way I'm going to let some lying dad with financial troubles blame my dogs for something they didn't do. This is a different case because in your case, you and the owner both saw the dog approach your child.
My question is, from a mother's perspective, how do you deal with the fact that your child might now be scared of dogs? No dog-loving parent wants a kid to grow up scared of dogs!
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"However, the Great Dane owner probably doesn't have kids and therefore, the dog won't ever know how to react around kids."
Actually she does. Her excuse for not getting after her dog when she started charging at the kids was that she thought it was going to bite her own (much younger) son. The dog lives with kids, she brought her kids to the dog park along with many other parents. I think her attitude towards her own kid and that she KNEW her the dog's issues with chasing and biting from personal experience and yet hadn't taught it to behave irritate me as much if not more than the fact that it grabbed my son. I would also have prefered that SHE not grab my sons arm right after either even if she was trying to make sure he was ok. If a dog bites hard enough that it almost broke skin through his clothes, the dog needs training! If the parent can't see what a risk this dog's behavior is to her own kids SHE needs training. ;)