Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : Blair March 14, 2006, 05:01:44 PM
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My sweet boy, Zeus, isnt very sweet anymore :( I didnt want to post anything and have you all think I am a failure, but I cant handle it anymore. Its too the point where I cant even walk him anymore cause he will snap at people, including kids. And just now he tryed to bite my daughter's friend and all she was doing was just standing there. Luckly he was on leash at the time and I stopped him, but he didnt sound too happy when he went for her. There is nothing wrong with him health wise, I have contacted dog trainers about him and nothing is working. I dont know what to do anymore. Ben told me if he bites anyone seriously he cant stay here cause of the safety of our kids. He has even growled at Skyla. Please what should I do. This isnt the same sweet dog he was.
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I don't have any advise for you but just wanted to say that I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I hope you will be able to find a solution so that you will all be a happy family again.
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Oh NO! :'( I am SO sorry to hear you are having trouble with Zeus! I can hardly believe it, he seems like such a sweet one. :-[
How long has it been going on? Do you think he might be jealous because he doesn't think he is getting enough attention? I know some people don't believe that dogs experience jealousy but I sure think they do,and I think they will do some pretty stupid things to try to get extra attention, including being aggressive. :-[ Which is terrible. And I am not saying that is what Zeus is doing, but just wondering. Maybe with the addition of little Smudge recently? ???
I am here to help you and support you, I wish I had some good advice. For now maybe you can buy some time and keep him separated from kids for a while (If that's possible) while you try to work something out and get to the bottom of things. Don't give him the opportunity to harm anyone during this time, especially if he has started to make a habit out of the bad behaviour.
I am trying to think of something to say to make you feel better, but I know it is so hard!!! Hang in there! Maybe you can sit down and have a talk with him? You'd be surprised what you can pick up from just sitting quietly with your dog and trying to understand what is going on in their mind! Maybe he just needs some one-on-one time???
I hope something can be worked out!!!
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:'( Ben isnt too trilled about all of this. He snapped at 2 people before Smudge even came. So I dont think its that. I have talked to trainers already, but trainers arent very good here. I have done everything they taught me. Like I said this has been a problem for awhile. i dont know how to talk Ben into letting him stay, cause Ben no longer trusts him and doesnt want him. He doesnt just want to toss him aside but get him into a Rottweiler rescue. But i cant do that, he is my baby. I love that dog so much. :'( :'(
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Oh Blair it made me sad to read this post. How old is Zeus now almost 2? I remember one trainer saying that sometime around the age of 2-3 they start an attitude due to maturity. I would try doing obedience with him everyday and really lay down the law that you are in charge with him and what he is doing is not acceptable behaviour. This reinforces your position of being boss/alpha. Farley has training on Fri night--I will ask her if she has any ideas.
Our one female rotti had a real attitude---we had to do training everyday to remind her who was in charge ::) After awhile she got it--she still remained a very dominant female. Poor Puck really endured some abuse from that girl :(
You could try using a halti( you can control his head better )e for the time being until you can figure out what is going on with poor Zeus :'(
Good Luck Blair :)
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I'm so sorry, Blair. I know it's frustrating and scary when they make such a sudden change in disposition. Have you started using any new chemicals or anything in the house that he may be sensitive to? I know it sounds crazy, but it may be the one thing you haven't thought of.
You might try asking your vet about amitriptolyne (not sure if that's the spelling). I've mentioned it before and know someone who uses it on a dog with unexplainable aggression and she swears by it. It's like doggie prozac. It may help him get through that transitional period Icerotti was talking about.
Maybe try contacting the Dog Whisperer, too??
Please keep us posted. I know Zeus wants to be good...
Jeanne
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Well Ben came home and we had a long talk. He is willing to try some more with Zeus, but if he sees no improve ments or gets worse he can no longer stay here :-[. I am sitting here thinking of anythin different and I cant think of a thing. Zeus is 2, 3 end of the year. He is so sweet to Grey and shows no aggression to other dogs, just people. I will not give up on him, he is my baby. And I know he is a sweety and I have to fight this with him. But how can I help him with at times I am nervous around him? I have never dealt with this before, so I am at a total lose??? I need to help my boy, I want my sweet happy go lucky boy back. Thank you for all your advice, I will try everything I can for him.
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I hope everything works out with him, have you contacted your breeder, or some experts with rotti's maybe they have some advice for you.
Nina
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Could you try a basket muzzle in your yard having some friends you can trust help you so you can correct him if he growls or lunges?
This is the only idea I had I wish I had more.
GOOD LUCK with whatever you try.
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I hope everything works out with him, have you contacted your breeder, or some experts with rotti's maybe they have some advice for you.
Nina
Sadly Zeus came from a BYB, I know bad me....But I have contacted a local Rottweiler rescue group to help me help Zeus. And I also know some other Rottie people who can help me. Keep my fingers crossed that my boy will go back to his normal slef. He really is a sweet boy, I hope no one thinks bad of him. :(
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He really is a sweet boy, I hope no one thinks bad of him. :(
Blair, we all love you and could neves think badly of you. ;)Sometimes people and dogs go through phase where they aren't very nice and really try all that they can to test their boundaries. Hang in there. Hopefully with some good, intensive dog therapy he can return to his old self. We're sending good thoughts your way and are keeping our fingers and paws crossed for a happy outcome.
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Oh Blair I could never think of Zeus as bad. He has had a few fundamental changes recently. He probably sensed that Diesel was ready to pass way before it happened. That is stressful and a big change in the Pack order. Plus having a new pup is also an adjustment in the pack order. He just may be figuring out where he fits in. He may be asserting his dominance through aggression. He may be maturing and challenging his pack status.Oh if they could only talk ;)
Try and relax around him( I know easier said then done)--he will be picking up on how uneasy you feel. I notice that with Puck when I walk him--I'm more anxious b/c I am afraid another loose dog will run and d be trouble :-\
I think what you are doing is fantastic contacting the rescue group and others for help. No matter what becomes of the issue you can be satisfied that you did all you could. You see a possible problem arising and you are being a responsible dog owner and doing something about it--hats off to you ;D You are a fantastic dog mommy ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I am so sorry!! It probably won't help but we went through the same thing with our first Pyr. I think it was probably the most difficult thing I've ever faced in my life. We loved that dog so much but I was terrified for my other dogs, my kids, visitors, even myself. We couldn't have anyone over at all. We lived in constant fear that he would hurt someone and I know he sensed that fear which made it worse. You mentioned that you have tried trainers, have you tried a behaviorist? I just mention that because my vet had recommmended I call the Pyr rescue group and when I did, it was a behaviorist who worked with me. She was absolutely wonderful. I would highly recommend having a behaviorist evaluate your dog and see what they think.
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I am so sorry!! It probably won't help but we went through the same thing with our first Pyr. I think it was probably the most difficult thing I've ever faced in my life. We loved that dog so much but I was terrified for my other dogs, my kids, visitors, even myself. We couldn't have anyone over at all. We lived in constant fear that he would hurt someone and I know he sensed that fear which made it worse. You mentioned that you have tried trainers, have you tried a behaviorist? I just mention that because my vet had recommmended I call the Pyr rescue group and when I did, it was a behaviorist who worked with me. She was absolutely wonderful. I would highly recommend having a behaviorist evaluate your dog and see what they think.Â
I will search for one tomorrow, hopefully i can find one near me. But where i live isnt very dog friendly and its hard to fine anything to od with dogs :-\ But i will search!!!
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I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't have any advice either. Hang in there Blair. We all know you'll do all that you can. You're a good mommy too!!!
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Are you sure that there is nothing wrong with him health-wise? Have you tested everythig including hypothyroidism? I seem to remember you posting about him snapping before and that time it was because of an ear infection
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I hope everything works out with him, have you contacted your breeder, or some experts with rotti's maybe they have some advice for you.
Nina
Sadly Zeus came from a BYB, I know bad me....But I have contacted a local Rottweiler rescue group to help me help Zeus. And I also know some other Rottie people who can help me. Keep my fingers crossed that my boy will go back to his normal slef. He really is a sweet boy, I hope no one thinks bad of him. :(
Samson came from a BYB too...She does breed for gaurdian type dogs but has no interest in standard or temperment...Y ou live & learn...That's why we went the extra mile or 1000 to get Pippin...lol.. .Anyway, I found leash training to be a Godsend!!!...I can't take total credit for it though because we had no fence then& had to take Sammy out on leash at all times...Sam would agress on people walking by, kids on bikes, & cars. :o You'll have to keep Zeus on leash, even in the house, when he is in a situation he reacts negatively on...When you see the first sign he is going to react to something in a negative way, before he lunges, snarls, or tries to bite...Yank that leash & give a firm NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...You don't have to hurt him just get his attention...Wh en he reacts in a submissive way by not doing to unwanted behaivor praise him to high Heaven...Treat s are good too but do it immediatly on the good behaivor...He'll get it...Sammy was THE DEVIL...Trust me!...Leash training works wonders!...Good luck!~
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You are such a good, loving, doggie Mom!!
I also have no advise - my Harley doesn't listen to a word, however, he is just the sweetest thing - he does enjoy sneaking behind 6 year olds and knocking them down but that is his thing.
I just wanted to let you know that you are a wonderful Mom and that it is obvious how much you love all your babies - I hope Zeus gets thru this (my very unprofessional opinion is he is growning up and trying to show his dominance).
Best of luck to you and your buddies.
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Blair,
you are the BEST mom! You are so NOT a failure!
I can relate to a pup with issues as my Ellie developed an aggression towards other dogs. We worked with a trainer and she told me many times to "calm it down" (we became friends) because my nervousness was transferring directly to Ellie and she was right! She also recommended I chew on mints when walking Ellie - Altoids to be specific because they are really strong. The trainer said - the minty aroma helps mask the nervousness the dog senses. Some sessions I ate altoids by the handfuls! i don't really know if it made a difference to Ellie - but it helped me focus on being calm and I know that helped Ellie - so when we are out walking - I am popping mints! :)
Hang in there with Zeus - your baby is a good boy who needs some guidance and you are giving that to him. Your committment to him as a family member and to working through his problems is heartwarming. In fact you've inspired me to get back on the training bandwagon with my own pups!
Rachel
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I don't have any advice or anything, but I just wanted to let you know that you're an AMAZING Mom. So many people would just throw in the towel at the first sign of trouble. Hang in there, you're doing all the right things!
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First of all, if you WERE a bad Mom, you wouldn't be chatting it up on Big Paws Only -- you'd probably be on-line gambline or in some sleazy chat room with a bunch of "singles" GROSS!
Second, I think you're already on top of it. Whenever Einstein starts even walking through a doorway in front of me, I have to stop everything and TRAIN him again that I'm in charge, I'm the alpha and HE WORKS FOR ME. I don't know what the behaviourist would say about your husband being the alpha -- where does that leave you when he's not around? Zeus needs to know YOU are alpha, too. If I were in your shoes, I'd be spending time every day reinforcing to Zeus that you're the boss -- whether husband is home or not.
You love Zeus, and when you love your dog you do whatever it takes to help them be happy (and those around them happy, too).
Here's something I lifted from the Dog Whisperer's website: "In the wild, a dog's very survival depends on a strong, stable and organized pack, where every member knows its place and follows the rules established by the pack leader. The pack instinct is perhaps the strongest natural motivator for a dog."
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Zues sounds like he's becoming territorial as he matures. Males can do that. Grace is territorial.
I heard that with Rotts especially the training process is never over. when one of ours gets like that (and they do) we re-establish dominance). I hate doing it. But it has to be done. You need to be and sound confident and leaderly.
let us know what the behaivorist says.
There's a lot to be said about that Alpha thing...even if it's a Alpha woman.
I take Grace and roll her on her back and growl and snarl at her while on all fours on top of her till she submits. This is a mild example.
Zues may just need a little reestablishmen t of the rules and the roles in the house.
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Im still looking for a dog behaivorist. The only one anywhere near me is also a German Shepherd breeder and teaches "protection", so I am not too sure, but I did contact them just in case :-\
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I'm gonna post an article about something like this...but to get dogs used to other people etc. parking lots at the mall are good...any place with lots of people in it...just introduce him gradually in small places first then big.
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No help here, sorry :( JUst wanna say blair, that it is good for Zeus that he's with such a good dog-parent, most people would probably not even try to help.
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I know these articles are mainly about open doors and walking ... but i think some of the same aggressive behaivor might apply. I'll look for other articles on this.
I have to email them to you. I can't post Adobe Reader files.
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I know these articles are mainly about open doors and walking ... but i think some of the same aggressive behaivor might apply. I'll look for other articles on this.
I have to email them to you. I can't post Adobe Reader files.
Thank you very much Lin...if you can email them to thegoalieswife@cableone.net
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I know these articles are mainly about open doors and walking ... but i think some of the same aggressive behaivor might apply. I'll look for other articles on this.
I have to email them to you. I can't post Adobe Reader files.
Thank you very much Lin...if you can email them to thegoalieswife@cableone.net
On the way. let me know if you don't get them.
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Just got an email from you...again thank you
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Just got an email from you...again thank you
anything to help. I hope you can read them. It's small and faxed. :) I'll check into some ideas on how to stop that. He's a good boy ... just needs his direction and Rottietude changed.
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Blair:
Found this on the Dog Whisperer site, too: don't miss this Episode! See if you can find someone who recorded it.
Episode 4 - JonBee, Violet & Hudson and Buford
After rescuing thirty-seven stray dogs, actor Scott Lincoln meets his match with a ferocious stray Jindo named JonBee. A crazy Great Dane wreaks havoc on house and home and a sad boxer constantly mourns the death of a beloved mate. See how Cesar makes nice in doggyland.
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Blair:
Found this on the Dog Whisperer site, too: don't miss this Episode! See if you can find someone who recorded it.
Episode 4 - JonBee, Violet & Hudson and Buford
After rescuing thirty-seven stray dogs, actor Scott Lincoln meets his match with a ferocious stray Jindo named JonBee. A crazy Great Dane wreaks havoc on house and home and a sad boxer constantly mourns the death of a beloved mate. See how Cesar makes nice in doggyland.
The Great Dane was just a destructive dog and liked to harrass the other family dog...I missed that part of the show because of technological errors and then misses the reairing because I didn't find out about it til after the fact.
There was one that had a rottweiler with a similar problem..it was an older episode. I believe he was fine for the family but attacked strangers. The owners had made the appointment to euthanize but couldn't do it and finally got help from Cesar (a trainer had said that the aggression would transfer to the kids which isn't usually true). I'll see if I can find reference to it.
It was episode 6 of last season and a boxer not a rottie but the situation was similar. And Episode 9( which I believe is either this weeks of next weeks episode sounds like it may help too. The show airs Friday night on National Geographic.
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Im still looking for a dog behaivorist. The only one anywhere near me is also a German Shepherd breeder and teaches "protection", so I am not too sure, but I did contact them just in case :-\
In looking for a behaviorist... Have you tried asking your vet? Your local rescue group? Google? Then the issue is which one is good. Good luck! Sounds like you might be getting a handle on the issue as it is!
http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/dpc-trainers.html
http://www.inch.com/~dogs/behaviorists.html
http://www.caninebehaviorist.com/
http://animalbehaviorcounselors.org/
Hmmm, some of those links didn't work right but edit doesn't seem to help me. Might need to type them into the search engine.
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I had a behavorlist stop by for a very quick visit.
http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,8617.msg107362.html#msg107362