Need Advice - Leasing vs. Buying on New Vehicle

[k2campbell]

OK, that's it.�  I've had it.�  I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my car - it gets awesome mileage, is quick when it needs to be, fills up for $36 and lasts me a week.�  BUT - I can no longer take Kate anywhere with me, as she is extremely uncomfortable in the back seat.�  She HATES it.�  When Eric is around, of course I/we take the truck.�  But when he isn't (and I want to take Kate with me), I really can't anymore...

It's really too bad because I just bought my car last July (before Kate came along).�  It's a Mazda 3 GT.�  I've had no problems with it what so ever.� 

I have been looking at the Honda Element.�  But, I didn't think I could do it, seeing as I just bought my car last year (and trading in a vehicle, especially a newer one, you get raped by the dealers).� 

Then - my Dad calls yesterday.�  He drives to Edmonton at least twice a week, and has a HUGE m'fer of a truck (for pulling the horse trailer).�  With gas prices being what they are, he's paying a lot of money to drive it (when) all he really intended it be for would be hauling horses.�  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm .�  I said "why don't you just buy my car from me, I'll give it to you for EXACTLY what it's worth, + $1,000 for the new winter tires & rims I just bought.�  He was like "really"�  My car is worth $2,500 more than I owe on it.�  So that (+ the tires) would give me a $3,500 down payment on the Element...

What I need is a vehicle to get back and forth to work in, weekends, camping (we don't have a trailer to tow - if we did we'd use Eric's truck), and of course something to tote Kate around in. The Element seems to be just for me.�  From the 4WD clicking in only when necessary (hello - winter driving), the wash-out utility floor in the back, and the fold-down front seats that turn into beds for camping with plenty of room left for Kate (we tent it when camping - so this would be an upgrade for us!) it seems just right.�  Not to mention the more than decent mileage they get.�  Plus the fact that Eric can STOP WHINING about all the dog hair in his truck He loves Kate but doesn't like the hair

Should my Dad buy my car, my problem from here is should I lease or buy?�  I've always boughten my vehicles, and it seems to me I get burned constantly on trade-in.�  I realize that a car will never be an investment, but I don't know what to do.�  Right now Honda is offering 1.9% on a 48 month lease, 2.9% on a 60 month finance.�  The buy-out on the end of the lease isn't bad at all.�  I travel 21,000 a year, the lease km's allowance is 24,000 a year. I don't know what to do!�  HELP!

I know a lot of people make it work with a lot less, not trying to be a spoilt brat here.�  BUT - with the rates I worked out I would actually be paying less monthly for the Element than my Mazda 3, because I went with higher payments on the Mazda to get it paid off quicker.

P.S.�  Sorry for the long-winded post.�  HOLY!

[kathryn]

I've never leased before so I can't answer that question for you.  I did just test drive the Honda Element last weekend.  Have you test drove it yet?  I am in the same predicament as your dad.  I have a Toyota T-100 and it's paid off so I don't want to sell it but gas prices are eating me up right now.  I was looking at the Honda CR-V.  So I am interested in the lease vs buying issue also.

Kat

[k2campbell]

I've never leased before so I can't answer that question for you.�  I did just test drive the Honda Element last weekend.�  Have you test drove it yet?�  I am in the same predicament as your dad.�  I have a Toyota T-100 and it's paid off so I don't want to sell it but gas prices are eating me up right now.�  I was looking at the Honda CR-V.�  So I am interested in the lease vs buying issue also.

Kat

I haven't drove the Element yet (but) hopefully will be soon.�  What did you think of it?

My Dad is going to keep his truck, but just for hauling the horses (and drive the car otherwise) should he go that route.�  T-100's are nice (but as per my Dad) I could just imagine the $ you're spending on gas.�  CRAZY.�  I really do need something good on gas, as I have a 50km drive to & from work everyday...

What did you think of the CRV?�  I like those too, I just think they're a bit out of the price range I'm looking to stay in...

[kathryn]

I loved all the room it had in side and the interior upholstery and rubber flooring.  It handled well but there was a lot of wind noise.  I don't know if that was because the wind was up really high or if it was the vehicle itself.  The one major flaw that I didn't like was that if you fold the seats up they lie against the sides of the vehicle and not on the floor so you have one huge blindspot on the right hand side.  Does that make any sense?  I loved the CR-V though.  No blindspot and the dealer told me that I could get it under $24,000.  I told them that I wasn't going over that price though. Does that help at all?

Kat 

[k2campbell]

I loved all the room it had in side and the interior upholstery and rubber flooring.�  It handled well but there was a lot of wind noise.�  I don't know if that was because the wind was up really high or if it was the vehicle itself.�  The one major flaw that I didn't like was that if you fold the seats up they lie against the sides of the vehicle and not on the floor so you have one huge blindspot on the right hand side.�  Does that make any sense?�  I loved the CR-V though.�  No blindspot and the dealer told me that I could get it under $24,000.�  I told them that I wasn't going over that price though. Does that help at all?

Kat� 

Yes, that helps - thanks Kat! I'll have to go test drive one before I make any decisions (plus need Dad's decision too) I thought the Element might have a lot of wind noise, probably because it's so boxy and not areodynamic at all.�  As for the seats - I noticed that too (that they flip up into the window area) but the Honda website says they can also come out completely.�  If I got one, the back seats would most likely be in the garage (and hardly used) anyhow, so it could work

I love CRV's - problem is (here in Canada) you can't get one for less than $30,000 new.�  I could go the used route (but) then you don't get the low financing/lease rate� 

Thanks for your help! �  I would definitely recommend a CRV if you liked it, we have friends with one and it's a nice vehicle

[Kiahpyr]

I have never leased either. I just want to say I LOVE my CR-V!!! Before my that I drove an accord. I never had any problems with my honda's. My DH has been driving honda's for many many years. I will never drive anything else again!

[k2campbell]

I have never leased either. I just want to say I LOVE my CR-V!!! Before my that I drove an accord. I never had any problems with my honda's. My DH has been driving honda's for many many years. I will never drive anything else again!

Good to know April! I really like CRV's too, but with the options I'd like (out here in Canada), they are out of my price range.  Too bad   BUT - I'm going to go check out the Element shortly - we'll see what happens!

[doggylover]

This is an interesting thread.  Under any other circumstances I would never admit to what I'm about to tell you, but I think I can be helpful.  Hubby and I have a carpet cleaning business, (I used to be a therapist but it didn't pay squat).  I have a bad low back, so I took a break from our business to see if a sales job might be interesting.  I worked for 3 months at a local Honda dealership and then left because I was afraid I was headed straight to h*ll if I stayed there.  Everything you've heard about dealerships is true...and THEN some. 
So here is my suggestion.  I would personally agree that you should ride the element.  Most people who drove it said it was clunky and uncomfortable to drive.  The side rear seats fold into the side of the vehicle and the back seat comes out, which is really nice.  Also you can practically hose the thing out and the seats are very dog resistant.  I drove it and hated it.  It feels to me like driving an ice cream truck on steroids. 
I would strongly recommend you NOT leasing a vehicle.  The reason is because they may include a clause in there where they get to anally rape you if there is dog damage to the vehicle when it is returned (we had that at our dealership and if a person had a dog in there, BAM they got nailed...and the dealership decides what they consider dog damage...fur counts). 
What I would suggest is that you get a private loan through your local credit union (if you have them in Canada) but DON'T tell them you have the money for the car when you go in there.  I would get a car that is around 6-12 months old (when they take the biggest loss) and go in there knowing exactly what that car books for, then offer them 500 less.  They pay well under book (usually several thousand) so they can still make plenty on the rig even if they sell it to you under book.
I would try to get a CR-V for what you can afford.  They feel more like a Honda pilot, they get decent mileage, and it shouldn't cost more than an element (even with financing differences) if its a year old.  If you want, you can let me know what's happening as it happens, and I can sort of guide you along...answer questions, or even help you at the dealership (by cell phone) to not get taken advantage of!
Those people are AWFUL...the better deal you get, the better I will feel!
  

[k2campbell]

Thanks Liz - appreciate your comments and advice!

I'm sorry you can't get more for your car, that's why I'm really hoping ol' pops pulls through for me and buys my car for what it's really worth!

Good luck!

[k2campbell]

This is an interesting thread.�  Under any other circumstances I would never admit to what I'm about to tell you, but I think I can be helpful

Doggylover – thank you, thank you, thank you for all the info!�  I appreciate your honesty very much!

I haven’t yet test-drove an Element – so I will and see what I think of it.�  To be honest the whole ‘seats folding down into beds thing’ and the wash out floor in the back are quite important to us, as we camp A LOT, are so sick of tenting it (and) can’t afford a trailer right now.�  But we’ll see – I might end up not liking it at all anyhow…�  Ha ha – “It feels to me like driving an ice cream truck on steroids” that is frickin’ FUNNY!!!

As for leasing, my whole intent there would be to buy it out after the 4 years.�  The low interest rate currently available (1.9%) means in the end (should I buy out) Honda would only make $2,100 on me in total interest (above & beyond the cost of leasing/buying out).�  I could imagine how much fine print would be within the “dog damage” clause, so I would plan to buy it out.�  Of course, the thing that scares me about this would be if I have a “change of heart” a few years in and want something else, then I’d get raped by Honda for sure on the lease thing.�  So, should this in fact happen - I'd most likely finance vs. lease...

I would use Honda’s financing should I buy, as the rate right now on the new 2006 Element is 2.9% over 4 years (my payment would work out being $20 less a month than my car payment right now).�  I did visit my local credit union recently for my yearly review on stuff, and they aren’t able to offer such a low % on a loan, plus the older a vehicle I buy is – the higher the % gets (stupid – I know).�  Makes the used car market practically useless.�  Plus the fact that all the one/two year old Elements available here are only 3,000 less than the new ones, so I don’t know.

I would like to get a CR-V, for sure.�  But, they are just too high priced in these parts, even for a used one.�  It’s silly, cause I was on the US Honda website and saw the difference in price.�  Plus the fact that even though I really like CR-V’s – Eric doesn’t.�  Not too sure why – he just doesn’t for some reason.�  Doesn’t mean I won’t try (I will) but they are just so pricey here and I must stick to what I can afford…

Thanks for the offer to join me along for the ride – appreciate that!�  If we go try one out (and like it), I’ll be sure to let you know!�  Thanks so much again!

First thing that needs to happen is my Dad has to buy my car

[k2campbell]

Thanks Liz - appreciate your comments and advice!

I'm sorry you can't get more for your car, that's why I'm really hoping ol' pops pulls through for me and buys my car for what it's really worth!

Good luck!

I think this thread has a horseshoe up its butt because there is someone wanting to look at my car tonight!�  I told my cousin what I wanted for it and said he can keep whatever he gets over the price that I want.�  He already has someone wanting to buy it tonight....wow!

YAY!  I'm SO glad I started it in the first place then!   That's GREAT Liz!!!

[Stacey]

I used to sell cars for Ford and there are pros and cons to leasing.�  Based on your yearly mileage it is absolutely something to consider.�  Other considerations would be wear and tear that is other than average.�  The good thing about leasing is that you have a GUARANTEED FUTURE VALUE so when you sign a contract it states "at end of lease term the trade in or resale value will be (fill in amount)" so even if the KBB value of the car is less your car is worth AT LEAST the stated amount if you decide to trade in or resell to the dealership.�  If you decide to keep the car you can make the baloon payment or refinance.�  I have leased cars in the past and as long as the mileage is kept within the contract limits, it really is a good deal (in my opinion).�  I know every manufacturer is different, we did not consider pet hair as damage (nail tears, bite marks, etc were considered damage.)�  I would find out exactly what their criteria is for excellent, fair, good, poor ratings on normal wear and tear testing at the lease term.
Either way I hope you enjoy your new car!!

Edited to add-If you are planning on keeping the car then I suggest  you finance the car.  The benefits of the lease really only apply if you plan on getting rid of the car at the end of the lease term.

[k2campbell]

First I'm going to apologize for this being SO FRICKIN' LONG!!!

Ok, ok, ok.�  SO.�  I FINALLY pulled myself away from my busy little life and went to Honda to test drive both an Element and a CR-V.�  The verdict is in...

I LOVED the Element!�  I know some fellow BPOer's recommended the CR-V to me all the way, but I absolutely LOVED the Element!!!�  I think it's probably due to the fact that I prefer boxy, simple styles of vehicles versus curvy and fancy.�  I don't know.�  I did own a Jeep Wrangler once, and it's still my favorite vehicle I ever had (just not very practical being a 2 door).�  The Element on the other hand - is COMPLETELY practical for us!

Eric didn't come along, I went solo to see if I would even like it (or the CR-V) first.�  First of all (this is a bit silly) but when I walked into the dealership my name was on this big screen for my scheduled test drive time.�  Ya - it was corny (but) I liked it anyhow (ha ha - go figure).�  Ya, I am kinda corny too - so hey, what the heck?! � 

Then I went to reception and met the guy that I had booked my test drives with over the internet.�  TOTALLY nice guy, not the "creepy carsalesmen" type IN THE LEAST.�  The first thing he did was take me thru all the info on both the Element and CR-V.�  He showed me EVERYTHING from where the oil stick was, to how many different seat configurations there were.�  That took about a half hour...

Then onto the test drives.�  I tried both the automatic and manual transmissions in the Element.�  The auto was a noisy mess with no power, it really sucked - I hated it.�  The manual on the other hand (which is what my car is now) was the complete opposite!�  Quieter, zippy (I actually couldn't believe how zippy it was), handled just like a car - all around a completely different vehicle than the auto. He kept telling me to "really test it out" and I thought I did, but then he asked to drive.�  OMG - he drove that Element like a frickin' rally car, it was absolutely INSANE!�  From taking corners SUPER fast, to driving along a gravel washboard road FULL of potholes - it was awesome and I got to see what the Element can REALLY do!

I tried the CR-V's.�  I liked them, but not as much.�  Call me old-fashioned (and I'm not dissing anyone on BPO that has one) but they just were too much for me.�  Too many pretty things, not enough "easy" things like the Element (such as the Element's wash-out flooring and HUGE amount of space in the back for Kate).�  One major thing I liked better about the CR-V (and didn't like about the Element) is that the back windows on the Element only open like minivan windows (they push out), whereas the CR-V's are normal opening windows. But I think it would be manageable...

So then I priced one out with him, under no obligation what so ever.�  I was at the dealership for a total of 2 hours.�  Seriously, who does this when they're not guaranteed the sale?�  I was REALLY, REALLY impressed.�  I guess they're not the #1 Honda dealership in Canada for nothing.�  He was very personable, told me if I did choose to look further into getting the Element, to bring the hubby and the dog in to try it out with me.�  No pressure what so ever - he even suggested I go look around elsewhere too.�  He was just awesome.�  AWESOME.

BUT - there's bad news.�  Dad decided he can't afford my car afterall (thanks a lot Dad - you're the one who started all this)!!! I'm planning to see how much I would be able to get for my car on a trade-in.�  The only good thing is that I went into my current car's financing with really high payments to have it paid off faster, so I think (if I had to trade it in) I would be ok.�  But we'll see...

Price-wise to lease an Element this guy knocked off $1,500 bucks and added in some extras for FREE.�  Plus, at this specific dealership you get oil changes for free - ALWAYS - no fine print!�  The Honda Canada guideline for "dog damage on leased vehicles" was only applicable to severe damage (seat rips, things being bitten, etc).�  YES - I asked (and) read this info!!!

So we'll see how it works out, I'm trying to not get too excited as I really liked the Element.�  I could get the top of the line model, fully loaded - for $20 less a month than I'm paying for my car now...

Thanks for listening and thanks for all of your suggestions and advise BPO!!!

[doggylover]

I'm so happy you loved the Element, it is in your price range, and it's way more practical for Big paws. 
OMG you could stick a speaker on top that plays studly ice cream truck music, and you can sell freezy pops to all the neighborhood big paws!!!!
 

[k2campbell]

I'm so happy you loved the Element, it is in your price range, and it's way more practical for Big paws.� 
OMG you could stick a speaker on top that plays studly ice cream truck music, and you can sell freezy pops to all the neighborhood big paws!!!!
 

Hahahahaha - doggylover you crack me up I suppose that could work!

What do you think about how I was treated at the dealership?  Is that the norm?