Author Topic: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come  (Read 3476 times)

Offline laycee

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Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« on: July 13, 2006, 03:09:58 pm »
Laycee is our 2.5 yr old irish setter, she is a complete joy to us and is a great member of the family.  As a runt we had to bottle feed her and truly baby her until she became strong enough (at 6 months) to be raised more like a puppy. 
My issue with her is she will still jump on me (she will never jump on my husband), she is extremely shy with strangers no matter how often people come to the house and can be somewhat agressive, and she will not come when she is called outside.  The latter being my biggest hangup with her. 
We have an 8 yr. old black lab who is very obedient and if we have them out and we let Laycee off leash - she zones out and puts her nose to the ground and goes.  If she does realize you are after her - she still will not come.  We have tried everything - the running away, the teaching the command on a 20ft. leash - and anything else we can think of.  Since we trained our lab and she is a guide dog - we thought we have tried everything - hopefully someone can offer some advice.  Especially if you have had the same issue with a setter

Offline newflvr

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 03:25:03 pm »
Now I may be talking completely out of school here, but our closest-in-the-world-friend had an Irish Setter for about 14 years.  Brandy did everything with our friend, and he was adored.....but Brandy LOVED to run.  All the time.  Every chance he got.  And did it until weeks before he went to the bridge.  He was the only dog know to escape from the pound NUMEROUS times.  (Yes...he was picked up about 6 times after literally bolting out of the house).  Our friend would go down to bail him out, and the HS would have to explain that he'd escaped from them as well...by climbing a 10 foot fence!  Brandy would always come home after a few hours/days, exhausted, skinny but joyously happy.  I think our pal got his first gray hairs from Brandy.

I think that is just the nature of an Irish Setter.... :-\

doggylover

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 05:28:09 pm »
My mom had one when she was young and same thing, she bolted all the time. I think it may just be a setter thing  ??? I'm really sorry I have no advice but maybe a fenced in dog park is the way to go?! Good luck!

Julie
That is a great idea.  Could you maybe take her to a fenced dog park and run the living cr*p out of her?  Really tire her out so that she has no energy with which to misbehave?  As far as jumping, I had the same problem with Badger as a pup/young dog and the ONLY thing that worked with him was to knee him in the chest hard enough to knock him down while saying in a firm voice, "NO JUMP".  I know it sounds awful, but they tend to get the hint rather quickly that jumping up is painful and not tolerated.  If you are already doing this and the dog is still jumping, I would suggest you do it a little harder. 
 

Offline NoDogNow

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 05:29:38 pm »
What's the ratio of time outside to time inside? Because setters are ALL about their noses, and if she's consistently spent more time inside than outside, that hunting nose of hers is very likely OVERWHELMING her brain when you take her out. Remember, she's been bred to scent and hunt down birds, and those instincts can be very, very strong, even if she's never been hunt trained. 

The running is absolutely a breed thing.  Irishes are supposed to be big, fancy, wide-ranging hunters, not close-in foot dogs like Clumbers or cockers.  She's going to run every time she gets a chance unless you've got her on a lead--that's what she's bred to do, just like a husky or a coonhound. I've heard a lot of people say it's a bad idea to ever trust ANY hunting dog off lead unless you're actually hunting or trialing--even the close hunters. 

You need to start spending a lot of time outside in your yard doing your obedience work with her--come, sit, stay, heel, down, etc., so she learns to hear you over her nose.

In fact, you may need to set her up a kennel outside for her to simply be in for a couple of hours a day, to exercise her nose.  I know, it sounds weird, but Barney swears that his dogs are calmer and better behaved if he kennels them outside for a 2-3 hours a day. His theory is that their brains work out what it is that they're scenting, and that helps them be more focused the rest of the time--although they will be distracted by a new smell. He has great dogs, so I'd give the kennel a try.
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Offline MafiaPrincess

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 08:14:31 pm »
I'd watch kneeing in the chest.  I know a few dogs who became people weird.  Sure they don't jump anymore, but they aren't the same dogs either.

Also know of a lady that was taught to knee her dog.. Lost it's balance and landed on it's spine and she swears she didn't knee it too hard.  Broke it's spine when it landed and had fairly severe nerve damage and was put down.

Think an OB class may be better than trying to take advice and do it yourself.
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GR8DAME

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 09:18:22 pm »
I have had the most luck with a kneebump, not hard enough to knock the dog down, but hard enough that they dislike the sensation. Lets be realistic, I was using it on 100LB+ dobermans and danes and I am 5'2", so I would fall down before they would. None of my dobes front feet left the ground again after two bumps, and it took four bumps for the danes to realize that hopping up on my shoulders was an invitation only event.
Stella

doggylover

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 09:28:39 pm »
I think the odds of actually hurting a large dog with a kneebump is miniscule.  Obviously the amount of force would be appropriate for the dog.  Badger is 130 pounds.  I am 145 pounds.  He has CONSIDERABLY more strength than I have.  The muscle to flab ratio is ridiculous (100% flab- 80% muscle-Badger).
Even when he was a little puppy he was stronger than me.  He has to/had to know that I was the boss; for us that meant OB training, Nilf, kneebumps, hand feeding...all together. 
I wouldn't worry about hurting her with a kneebump, just don't knock her too hard.  Although, imo, if she does it again, that is a clue that you didn't do it quite hard enough to get the message across... ;)

Offline laycee

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 08:15:03 am »
Thanks for all of the great advice and the welcome!

Laycee & DJ (we refer to them as the "Girls") are a huge joy to us and I cannot imagine our house without the consistent DJ and the loony Laycee...it is always something new at our house (from new hiding places for Laycee's collection of paper products to the occasional argument over a kong to the stubborness of not wanting to go outside and hiding behind the couch). 

Laycee & DJ stay outside all day (unless it is terribly hot or cold)  They have a pool, a large fenced yard, and very shaded kennel with a fan and 2 doghouses.  They usually get about an hour or sometimes a little more of a walk/run in the morning and both get put through some type of obedience training everyday and we go to the dog park at least once a week.  When we are at our families' home - they can pretty much run free (I just have to keep a eye on Laycee and usually end up having to go and pick her up)

I am trying the knee bump when I can catch her - sometimes she is so fast - that she has jumped up and is gone in a flash...but I will keep trying...Layce e has done every obedience class I can find and she is great at it - as long as she is on the leash...I am looking for a class that is leashless right now, but haven't found anything.
She knows plenty of commands and will listen to my husband much better than me.  However, if I get upset she will mind me - but I hate to act upset just to get her to listen. 

We are trying to establish that I am Alpha as well as my husband.  She very obviously considers him the alpha - and she is definately the alpha between the two dogs.  I am not sure what else to do in trying to establish this with her...they are not allowed on the furniture (occassionally if they stay in - they get in a old recliner in the den - but they only do it when we are not home), they aren't allowed "people food", I make them both sit before they are given anything.  Laycee every know and again (not often at all) will sometimes jump into the bed once my husband is taking a shower and lay near my feet - but I am usually still asleep and do not even know she is there - until he comes in and gets onto her. 

She is extremely affectionate with me and no one else so I do not want to ruin that. She does not care for other people, and I am sure that is partly my fault b/c of the way I babied her when she was young...my parents have told me (we had a irish setter when I was young) that they take a long time to train, so I will continue to be persistent and implement some of the advice.  Thanks again and I will probably continue to ask for advice...with this

doggylover

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Re: Commands we cannot master - Shyness, Not Jumping, and Come
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 05:09:35 pm »
Jackie, your idea of closing the distance so there isn't room to jump is good, and it also works to jump back so they fall when they try to jump on you  ;)
With training, I always try to start with the least 'aggressive' corrections then move up, if necessary, to more 'aggressive' corrections if need be.  So starting with changing the distance in order to stop the jump makes a lot of sense.  It's always better to keep things calm and friendly with training.  :)