What to do after a severe bite??

[cosmosmama]

My good friend, Kari, has a 2 year old Chocolate Lab that severely bit her sister-in-law.  The bite was unprovoked and Snickers, the Lab, knows the s-i-l.  Kari felt like she just didn't want to be hugged.  Snickers didn't growl or give any of the usual signs to say leave me alone.  She bit and then rebit.

Kari has 4 kids at home ranging from 1 to 9 years old.  She is a pediatrician and has seen the results of dog bites to children and she feels like she can't keep the dog because of the risk of her biting anyone!!  However, Kari is devastated and would like opinions, options.  Please let me know what you think.   

[cosmosmama]

Jenn,

Thanks for the response.  Kari did take her in to the vet and she got a clean bill of health.

My thought is that it is a behavioral problem.  I LOVE dogs, not to overstate the obvious, but have gotten a little nervous with her.  She has stared me down, but then has tried to crawl in my lap in the same day.

[SA_horses]

Kari did take her in to the vet and she got a clean bill of health.

Did you test specifically for thyroid?  (Ideally you should get a 6 panel - it has to be sent to either somewhere in California or the University of Michigan.)

However, assuming there is nothing going on there, my mother said that she had Labs for years as a child.  She commented that you have described is very abnormal behavior for the breed.  With breeds that were developed as guards or guardians, I would ask about more subtle body language occuring before the bite, but Labs are supposed to be very friendly, easy-going dogs.  I would say that this could be an unstable temperament.

Regardless, with little children, I think that your friend is exactly right - she cannot keep Snickers in her house right now.  Tell her to take the dog to the vet for boarding, and, in the meantime, try to make arrangements to have her evaluated by a behaviorialist .  If the temperament is unstable, then, IMO, the dogs needs to be put down unless there is a behaviorialist that would like to keep her.  (Re-homing such a dog with anyone of lesser qualifications is a disaster waiting to happen; someone will get hurt, and your friend WILL be sued.)  If the problem is elsewhere, then you can look into re-homing Snickers with someone who does not have children.

Just my two cents.

Sofia

P.S. Just noticed that it is your birthday today.  I'm sorry that something like this came up for you today of all days. 

[longshadowfarms]

Labs USED to be awesome dogs.  I've had them and loved them for 20 yrs.  Unfortunately I see more and more problems in the breed as time goes on.  I've been growled at by Labs more than any other dog in the last few years and I know how to approach them!  I would second the recommendation to have a behaviorist check out the situation and see if there is something that the owners have not noticed.  The dog certainly deserves that much.

[Gypsy Jazmine]

have gotten a little nervous with her.  She has stared me down, but then has tried to crawl in my lap in the same day.

How long has Kari had Snickers?...Since he was a pup?...Has he exibited behaivor like this before?...Not an all out attack but unpredictable behaivor?...When I read what I just quoted you as saying every warning bell & red flag I have went up full force...I recently went through an attack on y 6 yr. old niece with my sweet Rosie...She was accepeting attention & with no warning attacked my niece who received 4 stitches to her head...She had never attacked before but had shown unpredictable behaivor in snapping at my daughter...try ing to bite the vet (neither case would be unusual but she showed NO SIGNS SHE WOULD DO THESE THINGS)...& at times, lying there & just staring at us with a dull spooky look in her eyes...Once she attacked her behaivor escelated in a very spooky way...for example: She attacked another one of my dogs, who was sleeping, & she had appeared to be sleeping herself...Ther e was nothing going on to spook her...It was dead quiet here...2 in the morning & the dogs had all been sleeping for about 2 hours...Is anything like the things I described going on with Snickers?
I agree with Sofia that, if it hasn't been done already, a full blood panel & thyroid testing is needed...Also, a check up to make sure she isn't in pain anywhere...Wha t concerns me most is that he didn't give warning & he didn't bite just once...Big red flag here...My throughts & prayers are with your friend, her family, & Snickers.

[newflvr]

I have to agree with longshadowfarm s. Before I got the Newfs, I asked several vets in our area about the most even tempered dogs (we had an akita who was extremely unstable and would bite without warning  ).  I had assumed that they would all be unanimous in saying labs and goldens.  They were unanimous:  in saying that they were overbred and had all had problems with them.  Of course, just because of their popularity, there would be a higher probability of problems, but I do think you have to do your homework with them now, just like any other breed.

I'm sorry your friend is going through this.  It makes me so sad!!

[doggylover]

Kari did take her in to the vet and she got a clean bill of health.

Did you test specifically for thyroid?  (Ideally you should get a 6 panel - it has to be sent to either somewhere in California or the University of Michigan.)

However, assuming there is nothing going on there, my mother said that she had Labs for years as a child.  She commented that you have described is very abnormal behavior for the breed.  With breeds that were developed as guards or guardians, I would ask about more subtle body language occuring before the bite, but Labs are supposed to be very friendly, easy-going dogs.  I would say that this could be an unstable temperament.

Regardless, with little children, I think that your friend is exactly right - she cannot keep Snickers in her house right now.  Tell her to take the dog to the vet for boarding, and, in the meantime, try to make arrangements to have her evaluated by a behaviorialist .  If the temperament is unstable, then, IMO, the dogs needs to be put down unless there is a behaviorialist that would like to keep her.  (Re-homing such a dog with anyone of lesser qualifications is a disaster waiting to happen; someone will get hurt, and your friend WILL be sued.)  If the problem is elsewhere, then you can look into re-homing Snickers with someone who does not have children.

Just my two cents.

Sofia

P.S. Just noticed that it is your birthday today.  I'm sorry that something like this came up for you today of all days. 

I hate to agree with this because it is so awful, but what Sophia is saying is exactly right. 
As sad as it is, it really isn't fair (IMO) to keep an unstable dog alive (if that is what turns out to be the case).  It is usually easier for the owner (it is beyond heartbreaking to have to put a beloved otherwise healthy pet to sleep)but it is really pretty cruel for the dog.  We have no idea what kind of craziness is going on in there.
I hope that it turns out there is something going on that is totally correctable, however in the worst case outcome, your friend should know that handling the situation with Snicker's well being at heart is never the wrong thing to do.  Her children will also learn that sometimes sad things in life happen that we can't easily fix, but that doing the difficult thing is the right choice. 
I'm so sorry
 

[cosmosmama]

How sweet all of you are to respond so tenderly.  I will pass along the thyroid test to Kari.  I cannot say Snickers has been tested for that.

Kari has had her since she was a puppy so she has no history of abuse. 

I agree with all of you.  I tried to stay unbiased in my post, but I think Snickers needs a few more tests and further evaluation.  Kari would nothing short of that, but with no real problems the best solution may be to euthanize her.

She would never consider adopting her out unless it was to someone who had worked with dogs with behavioral/bite issues.  Snickers is being kenneled right now.  Kari looked into Lab Rescues and all have said no to her because of the bite.  She was looking for some kind of sanctuary for her.  I know there is one in Spokane, WA for dogs who have been given up due to biting.  It is an angel of a woman who lets the dogs live in a pack together and provides a loving life for dogs who would be euthanized.  The question then is how does a dog feel about being abadoned from the family.  I also don't know her name anymore.

Thanks again.

[doggylover]

I know there is one in Spokane, WA for dogs who have been given up due to biting.  It is an angel of a woman who lets the dogs live in a pack together and provides a loving life for dogs who would be euthanized.  The question then is how does a dog feel about being abadoned from the family.  I also don't know her name anymore.

This is interesting.  The other dogs would let snickers know pretty quick what would and wouldn't be tolerated, on the other hand, you are right.  She would be abandoned, and if she is crazy, she would still feel crazy...just in a more 'controlled' setting.
hmmmm I don't know....

[VdogLover]

 It saddens me when dogs get to this level and I feel for the owners.

As someone stated please get the dogs thyroid checked. If the thyroid comes back normal I feel there really is only one option...as sad as that option may be:(

[Anakalia]

Oh my!! I this is so upsetting because I just had to euthanize my 2 yr old Maltese for this exact same reason.  He'd bite HARD and viciously for no reason and give no warning.  He bit my daughter in the lip then attacked me several times before we decided he couldn't be helped.  I was holding onto every ounce of hope thinking I could change him, but unfortunately we just couldn't help little Ramsey.  I had a long talk with the vet to make sure we did the right thing.  He made very good points that helped me make my decision....Ke eping a dog that bites without warning is either, a lawsuit waiting to happen, if we decided to rehome him and he bit the new owners we would still be liable, or worse my daughter could get bit again, next time it might not just be a cut lip.

I'm not saying euthanize 100%, because I think vet tests and behaviorists need to be contaced first, but I just wanted to share and let you, and your friend know others have been in the same situation and it is such a tough thing to deal with, but in my opinion the safety of the children should come first. 

Please tell your friend I'm so sorry she has to go through this....just so sad!

[NoDogNow]

Did Snickers' breeder have anything to say, or is this a byb/pet store situation? 

American Labs have passed the tipping point, according to several writers and editors here who regularly hunt with/over dogs, and they've all been trying for a month to talk one of our colleagues out of getting a lab. According to them, unless the dog is from one of the "British" hunting kennel lines or one of the APLA specialists, they you can no longer rely on the Labrador breed standard as regards temperment or much of anything else, except coat and color! I've been hearing horror stories for a month about labs who seemed perfectly fine as puppies who unexpectedly went pit bull on members of their family. As for goldens...well our art director just had his 5 month old baby snipped on Saturday, and the vet told him that he can see the HD on the xrays already.

I pray a behaviorist is willing to give Snickers a chance, but being that he's a lab...I just think your friend (and especially her kids) need to prepare that the dog's going to have to be PTS.   

[cosmosmama]

I will check with Kari about where she got Snickers.  My guess is that she got her at a pet store.  In fact, I think we had a conversation about where she came from when she got her.

I appreciate the input about American Labs, even though it is very sad.

[NoDogNow]

I know, it's really, really upsetting.

I was under the impression that "Marley" (from our book a few months ago) is the exception to the rule. However these guys, who all make their living writing about hunting and dogs have all shifted from the American lab to British or APLA labs or straight gone to other breeds--and some of them have been hunting over dogs since they were 12 and 13, guys whose very first dogs were labs. One guy was almost emotional about getting a new puppy, and instead of that sleek little lab wiggle worm, his new puppy was fluffy! The pheasant hunters are changing to weims and vislas--the duck hunters looking to chessies or trying to find flatties, which isn't easy. That's great for those breeds, but it really, really bodes ill for labs.