Author Topic: What'd we do wrong?!!  (Read 16726 times)

Nicole

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2006, 02:04:13 am »
Sheryl,
 I think that you made a nice and fitting summary to this thread. I agree that every parent has a different definition of risk, and even that can vary among the same parent at any given time.
 My daughter is consistently alone with Cabeza. Now, those of you that have met Cabeza would probably find that humorous that I've even mentioned that...hahaha. .but, in any case...I know that I've taught Molly well, and I know, I mean, I KNOWCabeza is not going to bite. Anyone. Ever. But that doesn't mean I'd feel the same about any dog. Or any kid. Everyone's situations are different, ya know?
 Its sad that you had to send Sol back to his breeder, but the point is that if you did everything right or everything wrong, does it really matter if you don't feel comfortable? That's the most important thing.
 And, I'm not going to mince words here. Some people just do NOT want to involve their entire lives in creating/maintaining/establishing/WHATEVER a pack order or anything. And, that is OK. I'll tell ya what. My grandmother has always had dogs. I had 8 aunts and uncles. Most of them lived at my gramma's while I was growing up, because many of them were young. (My dad was the oldest) Anyway, do you think that my grandmother had all of those 8 kids work on establishing the pack order? Do you think they did any kind of obedience or anything? I'll tell you. Nope, they didn't. And their dogs were always the sweetest, nicest, most loving little scoundral mutts you could ever hope to meet. (Oh, and by the way, they were also fed the crappiest dog food in the universe, rarely went to the vet, etc. Most of them lived into their teens)
 Anyway...my point is that all families are different, and all families have varying amounts of time, energy, interest and motivation for training and stuff. So, do what you can and what is appropriate and don't beat yourself up about the rest. Heck, Cabeza only knows "sit" and "lay down". And that's only about half the time. I've put very little into training him. And, I'm OK with it.

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2006, 02:21:15 am »
I agree Nicole!...Because of the types of dogs I have training is a way of life here not an event but I knew that when I got my dogs & also knew what I would have to do to  have them...Newfies are generally mellow sweet tempered dogs & as much shouldn't have to go into them as far as vigilence & training as a way of life...Some days I really wish I'd gotten a few nice Newfies believe me...lol!...Also, I want to add that I am a stay at home mom for the most part so & my children are old enough to help out & understand so that is a plus for me...& again, this was all equated in my choosing a breed...If my children were toddlers I doubt I'd chosen Pyrs...In fact I don't know how anyone with babies & toddlers can manage the kids & dogs at all & I have the highest respect for them!
What you said about the dogs, crappy dog food etc...lol!...As we agonize over what to feed our dogs there is always some old farmer around here happy to tell me that their dog "ate xxxxx brand & lived to be 15 & never saw a vet"...I always wonder how this worked out so well for them but it happened alot!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 10:13:40 am by Gypsy Jazmine »

Nicole

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2006, 02:43:45 am »
I agree Nicole!...Because of the types of dogs I have trainign is a way of life here not an event but I knew that when I got my dogs & also knew what I would have to have them...Newfies are generally mellow sweet tempered dogs & as much shouldn't have to go into them as far as vigilence & training as a way of life...Some days I really wish I'd gotten a few nice Newfies believe me...lol!...Also, I want to add that I am a stay at home mom for the most part so & my children are old enough to help out & understand so that is a plus for me...& again, this was all equated in my choosing a breed...If my children were toddlers I doubt I'd chosen Pyrs...In fact I don't know how anyone with babies & toddlers can manage the kids & dogs at all & I have the highest respect for them!
What you said about the dogs, crappy dog food etc...lol!...As we agonize over what to feed our dogs there is always some old farmer around here happy to tell me that their dog "ate xxxxx brand & lived to be 15 & never saw a vet"...I always wonder how this worked out so well for them but it happened alot!

HAHAHA! Yes. My family makes fun of me endlessly at my obsession with Cabeza's and the cats food. They're ALWAYS telling me what their dogs ate growing up (EEW!).

Another thing I wanted to add,even though a few have said it. My grandparents' dogs weren't ALWAYS nice and sweet. hahah...My grandfather (on the other side, my mom's) had this poodle. Minky. That horrible, wretched dog was older than me (I think he lived to be 18) and he was blind and deaf. If you touched him, he'd bite you. Without fail. Do ya think that anyone ever got mad at the dog? nope. No matter how many times we got bit, it was always our fault.  ::)

Offline sarnewfie

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2006, 09:56:28 am »
NO matter what the breed you do not leave them unattended with children, you do not know what transpired between the two.
was he nuetered?
is he allowed to run in and out of the yard free?
did you take him out on leash whenever he had to do potty?
if you did not,, that is part of the problem, the other, is leaving the dog unattended with very young children.
any dog needs to be watched.
did your breeder coach you on the proper way to raise this pup, not just ONE class BUT SEVERAL are necessary.
what age did you bring him home to your family?
was the breeder one who has a bunch of newfs in kennels, and did the pups stay in the home or were they themselves housed in a kennel, away from the home situation?
how much were they socialized?
many people make the mistake of buying from the wrong breeders, those who do not socialize and do not work with the pups, and take them away from the pack to soon before bite inhibition has finished.
there are many factors that contribute.
i do not think it a good idea to sell a pup to people who have very young toddlers.
unless they have a crate and promise to give me updates on a daily basis and promise to follow my guidlines.
the pup is a working dog, wich requires you the owner to research and find out exactly the purpose of this breed, and the breeder should have cautioned you and guided you on how to care for this pup.
also, did she sell you the dominant pup?
BAD BAD BAD if she did.
and,
did you pick the pup out?
if so, another BAD idea.
a good breeder knows the personality of each pup due to living with them watching interraction with it housed in the house, and being able to observe the daily changing of the gaurd.
if this breeder did not know the individual persona and allowed you to pick whatever pup you wanted?
BAD
i am not chastising or yelling or trying to make you feel bad, but, education is key, and i hope you learn for the next time you want a family pet.
a crate is a must.
walking the dog to potty on leash is a must.
working the dog each day is a must
going to SEVERAL classes is a must.
excersise is a must
SUPERVISION with children is a must WITH ANY DOG
Grooming is a must
there is so much that should have been presented to you, that i wonder, was this really a good breeder? a responsible one?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 10:03:31 am by sarnewfie »
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Offline luvanewf

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2006, 01:00:35 pm »
     Again, thanks to everyone for your ideas and feedback, I had no idea you all would be so willing to help. :)

The breeder was way more helpful than the other 2 I interviewed and seemed to be honest.  I was the one to pick out the dog.  I met her in another town about 4hrs. away and had about 1/2 hr. with the puppies.  None seemed to be more dominant or submissive than the other.  I asked her which puppy was dominant and she said the dominant ones had already been taken.  I really couldn't see any differences so I sat down and Solomon was the puppy that came up to me, licked me on my face and sat in front of me, so he's the one I went home with. She knew I had small children, all were with me, and she did say that she was glad they were not little boys because they could be tough on dogs. Her dogs live with her in her home and back yard.  I saw this first hand when we took Sol back.  The puppies are born in her home.  We got Sol when he was 12 or 13 wks. old so I don't think too young.  She gave us an information packet on house breaking, health type stuff, and a few other things and in the agreement I signed was to attend several obedience classes.  The breeder said she only does 2 breedings a year.

He was not neutered per her instructions to not neuter until 10mnths because the testosterone helps put more bone down on the pelvic bone(I think that's why).

He was not allowed to run in and out of the yard free but we stopped taking him out on a leash when he was about 4mnths to go potty.

We took him to only one obedience class because my trainer did not offer another one until this Fall which we were on the list for.  He was groomed daily, I know it's hard to believe but he really was, and professionally groomed once a month.

The breeder seemed responsible to me but maybe not so much in some areas.

Can you please tell me how long it is necessary to take the dog out on a leash to its potty spot?

How would you have disciplined him when he growled at my children, I said a firm "no" and put him in his crate for a time out.

I obviously could talk about this subject forever and don't blame anyone for tiring of this thread but I really do appreciate the responses.

Katie


Offline sarnewfie

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2006, 01:51:01 pm »
Katie
take this as a learning experience.
you give a working dog to much freedom
and they will take it and run with it.
taking them to go bathroom on leash should be done for many months, becouse, it bonds them to you, they are being disiplined, and it is structured, to much freedom is trouble.
next, for the next time you get a pup, never ever leave them unattended with your kids. ever.
never.
if you cant be in the room the dog is crated.
any dog could have done this.
and, it could be different than what your daughter told you.
regardless, this should not have happened, and, if it had under your supervision you would know the exact circumstances.
to give advice on how to correct this over the net without having seen the circumstances we cannot do.
Little boys or girls can be tuff or make wrong moves.
either way.
it is good the pups were 12 weeks.

first you never meet the breeder to take your pup
you need to go to the breeders home and the breeder should fit you with a pup, if two are like each other, she can give you the choice of those two.
next, make sure you have the time to committ to training, walking, and daily care.
with small children many think they can only to find out they are stretched to thin.
many take it for granted that a pup can be trusted with small children.
this is all hindsight ,but, it truly has been a tuff situation for you to and i am sorry it happened.
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Offline Tspanos

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2006, 02:53:54 pm »
Katie I think you, your husband, and your kids have done nothing wrong. Almost everyone has made valid points that all could have been exercised in a perfect world, something we all know does not exist. What you did was above and beyond, you judged the situation to be beyond your ability and did what you needed too to regain control.

Those bold enough to claim to have never left their dog unattended with their children need to sit down and really think about that statement. Its untrue, I know as well as every other dog owner on this board knows it, so please don't get on aa all high and mighty power trip.

Kate I hope you take this for what it was, a conflict of personalities, it truly does not speak poorly of you, your family, Solomon, or your breeder, you all handled the situation as best you could in the time you had available.  Tim & Kali


P.s. Be sure to read Newflvr's post about five above mine, she is a very intelligent MOM.

Offline luvanewf

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2006, 04:00:10 pm »
 :) :) :)

Thanks to all!

Katie

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2006, 07:19:54 pm »

Those bold enough to claim to have never left their dog unattended with their children need to sit down and really think about that statement. Its untrue, I know as well as every other dog owner on this board knows it, so please don't get on aa all high and mighty power trip.

Kate I hope you take this for what it was, a conflict of personalities, it truly does not speak poorly of you, your family, Solomon, or your breeder, you all handled the situation as best you could in the time you had available.  Tim & Kali


P.s. Be sure to read Newflvr's post about five above mine, she is a very intelligent MOM.
I agree there is nobody to blame here...The unexpected & unplanned no matter how much you try & plan happens...But who said they NEVER leave their dogs & children alone?...I can't find that post? :-\

Offline sarnewfie

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2006, 12:40:59 am »
i believe i am being referred to as being on a high horse, but i think the person who said that is actually on a high horse.
children ( meaning toddlers) should not be left unsupervised.
it is a known fact.
just the other day i had a visitor, joy who is a toddler was standing away from her mother and i, we were talking about the mars coat king, her mother has billy, one of my pups and teaches joy about dogs, very well i might add, about behaviors etc.. but she is a toddler!
penny ran up to her with exhuberance and out of the corner of my eye i caught a glimpse of her going to lick her face, ut penny accidantly knocked her down.
many newf pups do not know their size, and penny an adult normally extra careful was to exhuberant, and, i couldnt get there fast enough to catch joy.
for all we know joy could have bruised fromit had penny bumped her the wrong way.
this is why we must watch them around the youngsters at all times, and why they must be educated on what they can and cannot do, and why the adults in the household know the proper way to raise a dog, giving mixed signals is confusing and bad behaviors form from well meaning, but uneducated adults.
no one is saying anything bad to this person, everyone has been very well spoken. if i am considered on a "high horse" so be it i doubt that that would be the thought if we all met in person.
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GR8DAME

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2006, 02:44:35 am »
Those bold enough to claim to have never left their dog unattended with their children need to sit down and really think about that statement. Its untrue, I know as well as every other dog owner on this board knows it, so please don't get on aa all high and mighty power trip.





Thank you for your judgement of my honesty, of which you know NOTHING, and of my life which you also know NOTHING. I have thought about it and stand by the statement that my children were NEVER left unsupervised with any of my animals until they were at least 10. End of discussion.
That, for your information, is me getting high and mighty.
Stella

Offline patrick

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2006, 02:59:34 am »
As a breeder I rarely sell a puppy to a house with toddlers- even in play the puppy will chew on them (particularly fingers and toes) and puppies have razor like toenails.  Toddlers are themselves exploring their world and think nothing of poking at the dog's eyes for instance or trying to pull off their nose (my niece used to do that)  Puppies shouldn't be allowed to growl at people but the kids also shouldn't be tormenting the puppy  Your idea of torment and the puppy's idea will be vastly different.  Its best to wait until the kids are older or to get an adult from rescue that has been evaluated to be safe with kids.  But then again I believe a lot of rescues also will not adopt to a family with a toddler. 

Nicole

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2006, 03:40:55 am »
GUYS!

No need to argue! We're all just talkin' here.  ;D

Offline sarnewfie

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2006, 03:44:26 am »
Very good info patrick and info that should be taken seriously for anyone with toddlers! :)
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Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: What'd we do wrong?!!
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2006, 04:23:13 am »
Those bold enough to claim to have never left their dog unattended with their children need to sit down and really think about that statement. Its untrue, I know as well as every other dog owner on this board knows it, so please don't get on aa all high and mighty power trip.





Thank you for your judgement of my honesty, of which you know NOTHING, and of my life which you also know NOTHING. I have thought about it and stand by the statement that my children were NEVER left unsupervised with any of my animals until they were at least 10. End of discussion.
That, for your information, is me getting high and mighty.
Stella
& you my dear Stella, "high & mighty" with the best of 'em" :-* :D...lol!...I wasn't sure if I was being high & mighty because I am ever vigilant with the kids & dogs...I'm not trying to be I just feel safer that way...I know how kids & dogs are & I don't want to lose another because of an attack or biting EVER...I am sorry I brought it up though :-X...I wasn't sure who was being referred to...Sorry guys!...Back to the friendly conversation please. :-* :)