Katie - what to do

[longshadowfarms]

Ok, I'm getting a bit desparate with Katie.  She keeps trying to kill dogs.  Separation has not mellowed her.  We can't keep her.  Prior owners tell us to put her to sleep.  The rescue group won't take her because they don't have anyone who can keep her separate from other dogs.  Postings to rehome her are not yielding any bites.  Carter is really getting to be difficult up at the house - with this cooler weather he's feeling his oats and keeps bashing at the glass door with his paws - he wants Eider to come out and play   Anyone have any thoughts?  I can't see her sitting in a kennel situation either.  I don't think she'd eat.  I'm running out of options and getting very frustrated.  She is so sweet but she can't go anywhere with other animals.  I'm rather certain she'd kill cats and it is very clear that she can't live with other dogs.  Any other ideas?

[Gypsy Jazmine]

I have to get ready for work right now but let me think on this & try  to get ahold of our trainer...I will get back to you...Until then prayers are being sent your way!

[lshelley21]

email ceasar millian!!!!!!!! he can email you tips

[longshadowfarms]

I'm bawling my eyes out with hope!  I have someone in Michigan who might be interested in her.  Please keep her in prayer that it might work out.  Katie is SO SWEET with people.  She truly deserves a good home where she can be the center of someone's attention.

[Nina]

I really hope this works out for her. I'll be praying for her.

Nina

[Gypsy Jazmine]

I have to get ready for work right now but let me think on this & try  to get ahold of our trainer...I will get back to you...Until then prayers are being sent your way!

I haven't been able to get ahold of my trainer yet but I will keep trying...Does she EVER act appropriatly around other dogs?...If so, the only thing I can think of is to reward her heavily with whatever it is that motivates her to  be good...When she agresses on another dog do an immediate timeout...I'd just immediatly snatch her up & put her away from everyone else...Seclusi on is about the worst punishment you can give a dog...Going by wolf pack psychology...i n their minds...a lone wolf is a dead wolf so it is not where they want to be...After an appropriate length of time bring her back & try it again...It might take awhile but be consistant...N ow,if she is out of your control from the get go I don't know what to do...Does she defer to you in these situations or are "all of her circuits busy" at that time?...I'll let you know if I am able to get ahold of my trainer...He has 9 dogs of his own & a few of  them are hard cases who had nowwhere else to go but he has managed to get them to at least co-exist with just an occasional fight here & there...I really hope for amiracle for you!

[longshadowfarms]

Does she EVER act appropriatly around other dogs?...If so, the only thing I can think of is to reward her heavily with whatever it is that motivates her to  be good...When she agresses on another dog do an immediate timeout...I'd just immediatly snatch her up & put her away from everyone else...Seclusi on is about the worst punishment you can give a dog...Going by wolf pack psychology...i n their minds...a lone wolf is a dead wolf so it is not where they want to be...After an appropriate length of time bring her back & try it again...It might take awhile but be consistant...N ow,if she is out of your control from the get go I don't know what to do...Does she defer to you in these situations or are "all of her circuits busy" at that time

She used to sometimes play with Carter or Eider, but then in the next breath she'd turn around and attack them.  It seems to be that Carter doesn't submit to her.  He tries to avoid conflict, tries to avoid the fights, but he won't go belly up for her either.  She does not defer to me very well at all.  Even if I have her on the leash, she'll continue to try to attack, even while I'm removing her from the situation.  She's pretty determined at this point to try to get at Carter every chance she thinks she might get.  We've been walking her with a muzzle and keeping her apart from the other dogs but if she gets close, she'll try to attack even through the muzzle.  None of the dogs has been allowed near her in about a month because her attacks were getting so much more frequent, so much more determined and the damage was getting worse all the time.

[bigdogs@5501]

Just a thought- would she be good for an older person as a companion? Maybe that is a possibility that can be explored? I would love to take her but have my own issues with the my GD and my sons older male dog. It is a constant on guard situation because the GD is the alpha male and will go after Buddy (my son's dog)  with no provocation if the opportunity presents itself. I am thinking that she would do great with an older person who would give her all of the attention. Maybe there could be a contact with AARP? Again just a thought and may be way off base.

[LuvmyMal]

If I did not have 2 I would take her in a heartbeat. I think emailing Ceasar Millan is a wonderful idea also, he gets all different dogs to co-exist w/out altercations.

[k2campbell]

I'm so sorry to hear about this, I know how much you love Katie.  I'm sending prayers your way that everything works out how it should - for both you and Katie.

[Gypsy Jazmine]

Daphne, I just got off the phone with our trainer...How bad have the fights gotten?...I amsorry but I can't remember right now...I read Paul some of this thread & he wonders if Katie & Carter don't have some "unfinished" business & that's why she seems so dead set on getting him...Paul said there are some dogs that are never going to get along but you really can't know this until there is damage as far as far as puncture wounds etc. everytime they get into it...If you interveine before they have settled their heirarchy Katie will keep trying to get things in order...Sam & Pippin had two major fights...Neith er would give & we had puncture wounds on Sam...But that was a few months ago & things have been o.k. here since...Jackie(Pippin's breeder) during this time said that she had never seen two neutered Pyrs fight to the death...Not very comforting but it was all she had for me at that point...lol... Paul always told me to let it go to my comfort level...It was hard to watch & I did break it up when it looked like neither would give but I did let it go pretty far first...Paul also said to let Katie around Carter but only on leash & when she agresses to remove her to a timeout...Let her know it is not o.k with you while you have control over her & then when you think she knows what is alright with you to turn them loose in a setting where you can have some control...Let them work it out to your comfort but them go for awhile...I hope this helps.

[longshadowfarms]

Modified because I have a migraine and the brain just ins't working right. 

They had gotten to puncture wounds which was why I separated them.  Carter had gotten the worst of it by far but Katie had gotten a few wounds too.  She'd also given Eider a good tear on his side.  I had not even been present for some of the worst fights.  I'd heard them in the middle of the night and woke up to bloody dogs.  I never actually intervened in a fight initially, just let them go until Carter escaped.  Later, when we separated the dogs, I would try to control Katie by leash, but that didn't work very well either.  What really got me is that he was always trying to avoid the conflict, trying to move away from her, but that she would insist on pressing until at some point she decided she'd had enough. 

[Gypsy Jazmine]

I do't know what other advie to offer then Daphne...I'm sorry. I do remember now how bad it was getting though...That just sucks!

[longshadowfarms]

I do't know what other advie to offer then Daphne...I'm sorry. I do remember now how bad it was getting though...That just sucks!

And to top it off, the gal in Michigan fell through.  She has all sorts of poultry that she wanted a dog to help guard.  Katie is a phenomenal small animal killer.  I've learned to keep everything I want alive penned up. 

The biggest problem is that Katie just doesn't get along with ANY animal and everyone that might possibly be interested has other animals.  She'll eat anything small and fight with anything her size.  According to her former owners, she'll also attack anything larger than her that challenges her.  Sigh.

[lshelley21]

i know this might sound odd... but cearsar did a case like this and it is on one of his shows. It was with a dog who killed animals, and he "fixed" the dog so to speak.... Perhaps the techniques he used could help you out