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Obedience????

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GYPSY JAZMINE:
Samson has been through 2 puppy classes already & will start adult classes this spring...I loved the puppy playtime at the end of the classes & I loved that they taught all positive reinforcments instead of the old "choke & drag" methods which I wouldn't have put him through anyway...One thing I didn't like is that, because I listened & did everything they said I had a few problems with Samson when he his about 7 & 1/2 months...I did have to resort to using the Alpha Roll a few times which they did not reccommend...B ut, the problems I was having alleviated after doing such...I am just thinking if I used this when he was 3 & 1/2 months old it would have been much easier than trying to roll a 7 & 1/2 month old dog...What I am saying is that I would never in any way shape or form abuse my dog but with some dogs like my Pyr I think maybe a little "letting them know who's boss" goes a long way...I hope nobody gets upset with this but I truley believe if I'd used all positive reinforcments Samson would not have been a dog we could keep.

mamadog:
I agree with you totally. It hasn't been as issue with my babies to date. But the best trained dog I have ever met belonged to a freind of an old boyfriend. Starting from a puppy he used that method with his dog (I can't remember the breed, but very big and commanding looking, like a German Shep.) He never hit his dog and they were very obviously in love with eachother, but if the dog needed it he would roll him on to his back, climb on top of him and growel. It worked wonders with this dog (and each one is different). But Zeuse was perfectly mannered and always listened to his human. The dog amazed me. We spent a summer working in Bar Harbor (coastal town, seasonal, drinking....yo u know the type of place!) and Eric could go into a shop or bar and tell Zeuse "stay here, be good and don't leave with anyone unless Kathy comes to get you" and he would do just that. The dog knew who he could go with and who not to... I thought he must be some kind of super dog, smarter than most. Turns out it was a combo of the right breed and great training.
It wouldn't work for all dogs, but if it works for yours than it's right. I don't believe in hitting dogs, or kids for that matter.... but sometimes you have to let them know who is in charge in other ways!
(though I admit that I did pop my dog on the nose for biting me once. ONCE, and she hasn't done it since)

Vicki

nettrek4:
  I do all my own training, having bred collies for 25 years I have lots of expreience.  Collies are so smart, they should probably be training me, perhaps they are and I just don't know it!  I will use the "roll" technique on the older pups if necessary, and it does seem to work.
  There are a couple of things that I do to teach the smaller pups not to bite people (in play, or course) that some might not aprove of.  When I feel any pain, or even just feel the teeth on the skin, I shout a loud angry "NO" instantly and then stand up and stop playing or petting.  Most of them will catch on after a week or so, they know that it makes me angry and it deprives them of my companionship.
   If that is not effective, I sharpen up my reflexes and then, the instant I feel the teeth, I tap the pup with 2 fingers, lightly, on the head right between the ears, just to get their attention.  This is accompanied by the NO and the stoppage of play or petting.  Another option is to hold the pups mouth shut for about 30 seconds while you scold in an angry voice.  Usually some combination of these things will work in a week or two, if you are consistant and patient.  I feel it's better to teach the pups this BEFORE they go to new homes, then they don't get in trouble with their new family.
    And I don't think it's abuse, you have to let them know that you are the alpha dog, you are angry, and biting people is a no-no.  The bigger they get the harder it is to control the action, it is so deeply ingrained as time goes on.  So start very young, be consistant and firm, they will learn.
        Marcia P. and the Bonnie Collies

GYPSY JAZMINE:
I love your black & white Collie!...My sister's collie pup, Chopper the devil dog looks just like that!...Sammy has gotten some sharp finger raps across the snout for biting & then time outs in his crate...He rarely trys to put his teeth on us anymore...I would have LOVED to do only positive reinforcment as I feel like a big meanie when I have to be firm with him but there truly was no other way no matter how hard I worked with him & he was getting WAY too big for his britches! :(

GR8DAME:
We have always taken our dogs (dobies and danes) to the same trainer, he is very well known in the area, and also the head trainer in the children's zoo in a fairly famous zoo in our state. I've seen him handle ever breed from teacup poodle to our own danes and he is wonderful! Plus the classes are in a group situation, so they are wonderful for socailization and control. Although I am sure I am capible of training on my own, I enjoy getting out and bonding with my animal, and I think they enjoy it also.
Stella

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