When will they stop fighting?

[mama23+pyrs2]

I wrote my breeder about this a couple weeks or so ago and still have yet to hear from her. For the first couple weeks of having my pups they got along great, played a lot but it was usually all very kind. Then they started to play fight and then it turned into really nasty fighting. They are crated together which doesn't seem to help matters but when they come out they do the same thing. I planned on crating them seperately at 4 mos..my breeders suggestion, and let me tell you I can't wait. It gets SO loud in here, between the barking and growling and yiping and you name it. It's very viscious sounding and as they grow, the louder it all becomes. I've never had 2 dogs before let alone 2 puppies (aside from when I was a child)so I don't know what to expect or when it should (hopefully) taper off. The male is dominant and pretty much gets whatever he wants but it doesn't stop the female from letting him know she's not happy about it. Are they still establishing a pecking order? They ALWAYS fight over every single bone or toy. Even if they have the same thing, just like kids. They refuse to eat or drink from seperate bowls so that is one thing they don't fight over.. sometimes I can't even see a reason for the fighting but it's almost constant now. I imagine when they are grown and out of the puppy stage this won't be such an issue.. but I just didn't know if it would better before then or not.

Also do I just let them work it out or do I ever intervene? I usually do not get in the middle, nor do I really care to..it's kinda scary. But sometimes when one is chewing it's toy quietly and the other one is just antagonizing him/her, I make them stop so as to avoid another spat.

[schelmischekitty]

personally, i wouldn't crate them together.  too much could happen.  if it was me, i'd get two wire crate and just set them next to each other that way they're "together" but neither can get hurt and each has their own space.  you may want to try the squirt bottle to get them to stop, that way you don't get your hands in the middle of them, but they will usually stop when you do that.  are they getting a lot of exercise? our two dogs caine (pitbull) and diesel (great dane) are the same age, and we do obedience with them to help them focus themselves.  we also do "rough house time" so they're super tired and don't cause a fuss.  sorry i can't help you more, we got diesel when he was like 4 or 5 months old, so we skipped the whole two little puppy time, but i'm sure others will have some great ideas for you!

[mama23+pyrs2]

Yeah they get excercise..I try to let them out in the yard with the kids when I can watch them because they dig. I let them out in the house for short periods in between crate time. But Yukon, bless his heart pees in the house constantly and without warning so it gets exhausting, Yiska is much better about it and has had only a couple accidents. Yukon will end up peeing every time he is in the house, despite me taking them out about every 20-30 mins. Sometimes he pees within 10 mins of going outside. He doesn't get anxious..no cues just walks along, squats and keeps going, drives me crazy. The time I have caught him, which have been many I scold him and out he goes and then I praise for going outside but it hasn't seemed to make any difference. Anyway that's another issue altogether but they seem to get plenty of excercise and lay around mostly.

We are planning to take them to obedience as well ..but I decided to wait a lil longer because of hearing this breed usually responds better when they are older. We tried taking them for a walk once but I ended up carrying them back because they just don't want to move on a leash most of the time.

I plan on getting another wire crate soon then. I think it will be good for them even if it's miserable in the beginning. ..you still can't take one out w/out the other one sounding like it's being beaten.

[mama23+pyrs2]

I would socialize, socialize, socialize.  Even if they don't listen at obediance, they are still getting interaction with other dogs, people, each other and you are establishing pecking order--they aren't, you are.   Puppy kindergarten is worth it, IMO.

Get that spray bottle.     It works! With Charge and Chammie, I let them get snarly but I would immediately take away whatever it was that was causing the problem (typically, a bone). And then, I'd put them in a sit/stay (you might need a leash LOL) and remind them that I was in charge and that they could release when *I* said so.  The snottiness only lasted a few days and then, it was over.

I'd start taking them on LONG walks, playing ball or other games in the yard but also at parks.  Great pyrs are territorial by nature, so socialization is key.  Plus, it's fun!  Chammie is a nightmare in the house (extremely destructive) and, so far, the only thing that makes her less naughty is exhausting her. I take her on bike rides and she goes to doggy daycare every day...it's finally started working (after 6 months).

Also, when they potty outside do you make a huge, over the top, happy production?  That's what I had to do with Chammie. She really struggled with it for a while, so every time we'd go outside, as soon as she finished going to the bathroom, I'd jump up and down, squeal, tell her that she was the smartest thing in the world, give her kisses, a treat and throw a ball.  While it may have been humiliating for a while (hee!), it worked.  Unfortunately, I didn't figure it out until the wood floor by the front door was already stained and warped.   

Your two are adorable. If I didn't know better, I'd want them but Chammie has taught me a great lesson about puppies...I'm a much better older doggy momma. 

Julie

Okay, good advice. I will pick up a spray bottle, I think it's gonna get a lot of use lol. I have found a couple puppy kindergarten classes and had planned to start this week but my finances got a little stressed this month so I will have to review.  They have met a lot of different people but only dogs at the vet so far..and I REALLY want to socialize them yes. They are just vaccinated enough to go to class but the one class I was going to go to, they aren't old enough for their Rabies which my vet says is a must. Yukon seems to already have issues with larger dogs, which I know Pyrs are known to have.. he seems to already have that big dog attitude.  Small ones he does fine with so I wanted to be sure to get them around lots of different dogs.

I'd love to take them on walks but like I said, I haven't figured out how to get them to actually WALK lol, a common complaint I hear from other Pyr owners. I think it takes awhile and patience from what I've read. Taking them outside to potty is no easy feat, when they don't want to walk a step further, that's it. My daughter calls them cynder blocks lol.

Oh and yes I try to get real excited and lavish them with pets and kisses when they go..haven't got quite as excited as you but that's because they really don't seem to care what I do, they just look the other way, like yeah..what's wrong with her. lol

Thanks for all the advice so far!

[schelmischekitty]

i agree with julie.  we are the bosses (even our kids do obedience with them and they're 1 and 3) and then the only dog we let be "higher" is axle for the simple fact of with having 5 dogs, he is the only one who can handle being "second in command" (to people) and not abuse it.  he very rarely punishes the other dogs, but in situations where i don't want to put my hands in he is very good at breaking up disputes that have gotten too rough.  even if you don't go to obedience classes, you can still do some at home.  this will really help you in the short and long run and it will help occupy their time also.  one thing i have noticed though is with some dogs, having no "alone" time with their people can cause problems.  i've seen dogs that spent years together and you couldn't separate them b/c they'd both flip out, some to the point of hurting themselves or destroying houses in attempts to get to the other dog(s).  for this reason we make sure to walk single dogs or go to petsmart etc with only one dog to make sure they have that confidence should we ever need to bring ONLY one dog somewhere.  as for the walks, just don't give them a choice.  when you give in and just pick them up they're getting their way.  we were told by our trainer to never take no for an answer.  if you want or need it make them do it.  if you just keep walking, after a few days they'll get the point.  even if it's just a 20 ft walk down the street, you're still getting the point across.

[People Whisperer]

Ok, Pyr's owner here...oh, boy it does takes a lot of nerves to live with Great Pyrenees. Mine is 8 months and I just now starting to actually understand my dog and finding the correct approach.

First of all, we did have a very big issue with walks when I got Lily. I was pulling my hair out trying not to kill the dog. As soon as I put the leash on she would not walk. What I did is I was taking her to the park whih is nearby of different neighborhoods which she didn't know and let her go. She would stop of course...and I let the leash go (make sure it is safe around!!!). The pups are still insecure at this age and WILL follow you. ANd she did, time after time. It took long 2-3 weeks but the problem is solved. Almost...now she would stop to listen and to look around to make sure there are no predators...an d I let her...a couple of minutes later she start walking again.

Obedience is a MUST!!! Do not wait. The breed is very smart and puppies learn very fast. We started at 9 weeks and by the 19 weeks graduated with 1st place at the exam. They are very stubborn and require very strong leaders. Strong meaning not the power of force but mental stability. They are very sensitive to the voice so you don't even need to touch them...just sterdy voice correction is anough to get their attention.

Urinating in the house...put them on a schedule then you will know when they have to go (about 20 min later). If you can't watch them...crate them... and they will not make mistakes in there. Take them out right after they eat, sleep, and play. Give then a very special treat every time they go outside. AND, be strong!!! It's a lot of work!!! But in the end you will have truly wonderful companions! Good luck! 

[mama23+pyrs2]

Okay let's see.. well firstly they don't like to follow me even at this age, unless I get down to their level and call them over getting very excited but that only works until I stand back up and expect to walk further haha.  I mean even going out to go potty this is the issue. They will have to go..but you have to pratically drag them over to the right area before they will go, otherwise, they'd be happy to trot back inside. They will ONLY poop along the perimeters of the fence so if you don't get them over there, you know they aren't going lol.

They definitely are very smart and catch on fast, it's just a matter of what they want to do ..I believe they know it but choose to not do it unless they want to. I started training basic manners from the time I picked them up and they are very good with most things, caught on very fast. They sit for everything, will wait patiently for treat until they are allowed to take it, will go to bed when told (well mostly haha, Yukon's better) and respond to 'leave it' and 'off' etc. Also have to sit while I open the door and tell them they can go, they are really very good.

The potty schedule, they do have one. They are crated when I can't watch them but if I have to run to get something for a child or something, it's happened that in those seconds I come back to a puddle and I know when I take them outside who it was, it's always Yukon..and he's the one I always catch doing it to. He does it right in front of me. They also go out anytime they come out of the crate, any time they whine, after they eat/drink etc.. and after about 20 mins of playing inside. They get a treat when they come in from a sucessful potty trip. They have learned to expect it so they come right in and sit and wait for me to get their treat.

I thought I had a lot of patience before but they are really testing it yet lol. I knew to expect this though having done a ton of research on anything I could read before I got them, good thing or I'd go nuts I'm sure. I now need help to take them to the vet because it's no longer working on my own. Taking them there last wk was exhausting!!! I can't tell you how long it took for me to get them inside the door and once I got one in, a hyper weimaraner batted my girl in the face and back out she went with her brother. It was a nightmare. So, next time hubby is going along to help. Pretty sad I can't take 2, 3 mo old pups to the vet alone. But aside from picking them both up at once and opening the door at the same time it wasn't happening, they weren't moving and if they were, it was sitting pulling backwards so we wouldn't go in.

[mama23+pyrs2]

i agree with julie.  we are the bosses (even our kids do obedience with them and they're 1 and 3) and then the only dog we let be "higher" is axle for the simple fact of with having 5 dogs, he is the only one who can handle being "second in command" (to people) and not abuse it.  he very rarely punishes the other dogs, but in situations where i don't want to put my hands in he is very good at breaking up disputes that have gotten too rough.  even if you don't go to obedience classes, you can still do some at home.  this will really help you in the short and long run and it will help occupy their time also.  one thing i have noticed though is with some dogs, having no "alone" time with their people can cause problems.  i've seen dogs that spent years together and you couldn't separate them b/c they'd both flip out, some to the point of hurting themselves or destroying houses in attempts to get to the other dog(s).  for this reason we make sure to walk single dogs or go to petsmart etc with only one dog to make sure they have that confidence should we ever need to bring ONLY one dog somewhere.  as for the walks, just don't give them a choice.  when you give in and just pick them up they're getting their way.  we were told by our trainer to never take no for an answer.  if you want or need it make them do it.  if you just keep walking, after a few days they'll get the point.  even if it's just a 20 ft walk down the street, you're still getting the point across.

yeah that's true. i never go to them and pick them up because i figured it would defeat the purpose and they would never learn to walk on the leash so i make them walk at least outside to go potty, enjoyable walks around the neighborhood are going to have to wait though, taking 3 kids and 2 puppies that won't walk on a leisurely, supposedly pleasurable stroll was an awful chore lol. i guess i could try taking one when hubby gets home from work and leaving the kids here w/him to make it a little easier.

ya know i had my doubts about crating them together to start with but i didn't want to traumatize them in the beginning. they are better than they were then at least..and one can be out playing and the other one in the crate for not behaving and after a few unhappy whines and barks from the crated one they settle.  it's funny because whoever is out is happy to be and seems to almost rub it in the other ones face lol. once i seperated them i was also going to feed thems seperately of course and walk them seperately. there have been times all they do was roughhouse outside and it's one huge ball of puppy fur tumbling and no one is going potty so i'll put one back inside.

[People Whisperer]

Have you tried a bell for the potty training? It worked for us to housetrain Lily. Although a couple of weeks later, when the bell would not stop ringing LOL we had to take it off. 

[mama23+pyrs2]

lol yea that's my fear haha. we haven't. we tried that for our last dog (an Eskie) and that was the same problem with her, well it never worked actually she just played with it and never 'used' it. i could try it though. we take them out the same door every time we take them out to potty and have from day one but they dont go to that door when they need to go either- that would be so helpful if they would... in time.

[People Whisperer]

Maybe if you hang it kind of high so they can reach it it could work. I mean...everyti ne you open the door for them to pee you would ring it...and then if they want to go they will go to the door and will try to get to it...and here they are BY THE DOOR. Just like you want it!

[mama23+pyrs2]

How old is Lily now? She's adorable

[schelmischekitty]

walks will get easier when everyone matures a little.  on the rare occasion i or we get a wild hair up our butt, i / we take 5 dogs and 2 (1 and 3) kids for a walk.  other times i'll take all the dogs and leave the kids for a break ha ha, i'll play the "but, HONEY, it's just soooooooooooo hard to take EVERYone" ha ha, he falls for it every time.  how old are your babies?

[mama23+pyrs2]

walks will get easier when everyone matures a little.  on the rare occasion i or we get a wild hair up our butt, i / we take 5 dogs and 2 (1 and 3) kids for a walk.  other times i'll take all the dogs and leave the kids for a break ha ha, i'll play the "but, HONEY, it's just soooooooooooo hard to take EVERYone" ha ha, he falls for it every time.  how old are your babies?

my kids are 9, 2.5 and almost 11 mos.  so my oldest attempted to push the double stroller which i discovered pushes horribly (waste of $) and hubby and i each took a dog. they could have done worse but it was a bit stressful lol. i had to take turns holding each to walk home because they were just DONE. we only walked around the block because i know they shouldn't be excercised a ton at this age but even what they would walk proved to be too much.

it would be good for them if i did take one each on a walk so that way they would get some alone time with me and not be as distracted with the other, not to mention- easier.

[schelmischekitty]

i know EXACTLY how you feel (minus the 9 y/o).  we have a 1 y/o boy and a 3 y/o boy.  boy, can it get hectic!  i can say, toys r us has a jeep double stroller for like $70 that's great!

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2266102&cp=2255983.2256189.2256200&parentPage=family