Urinary Incontinence and Prion?

[GoldenPyrs]

Hi, a few weeks ago Daisy (our 8 y/0 Golden mix) started to urinate occasionally in her sleep. I took her to the vet to check for a UTI, but her urine & exam were fine so they assumed that it was spay incontinence.  They prescribed Prion to help her control this, but that same day the problem stopped, so I didn't start the meds.  Since then we've noticed that the only time she "leaks" is when she's been running and playing with Cassie,who is turbo charged. She can take regular walks, etc. but if she runs around (like the playing pic that I posted yesterday) then she will have a puddle under her when she wakes up from her next few naps. Now we're trying to limit her aerobic activity to walks & gentle play with Sammy (due to the "leaks" and arthritis in one elbow), but she wants to play w/Cassie so badly and occasionally sneaks out around the kids to play, then we notice the leaking.  We have laminate flooring w/area rugs, so the clean up is usually pretty easy, but we'd love to fix this, though I always worry about side effects with meds.  Have any of you noticed problems like this with your dogs?  Also, has anyone used Prion and did you notice any problems or side effects?  Oh, BTW she is otherwise healthy except for food sensitivities and arthritis so she eats Natural Balance Duck & Potato and I give her a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement daily.  Thanks!

[kathryn]

Kaila was diagnosed with spay incontinence and she's only 2yo.  She is on the Prion and the only side effect that she has had is that it made her lose weight.  She is doing wonderfully on the Prion and is now taking a half tablet every other day.  I switched her off Natural Balance Ultra Premium to Innova and that has helped put weight back on her and keep it on her.  I didn't notice a difference of when she played hard and leaked and she didn't play hard and didn't leak mainly because she always plays hard.  I hope that helps some.

Kat

[ZooCrew]

I used to have Keiko on Proin (otherwise known as PPA or phenypropylami ne).  She was on it for almost 2 yrs.  When we moved to Ca, she was able to get more exercise and be let out more often b/c I worked out of the home so I took her off of it.

Since moving back to the midwest I think she may have started leaking again, I'm not positive b/c they aren't the huge puddles they used to be, just slightly damp (which could be due to her licking the bedding, which she does)

I never noticed any side effects.  Sounds like for me it was the opposite problem for you.  Not enough exercise and she would leak.

[GoldenPyrs]

Thank you both very much.  I feel better knowing that the Prion worked out well for your dogs.  I'll try it now with Daisy and see if it helps.  Do you remember how long it took to see improvement?

Yes, Daisy's problem seems to be worsened specifically by activity.  I really don't know why that would make her leak urine, and she always looks so mortified by it and trys to clean it up (ewwww), poor girl. She is probably 5 lbs overweight, so a little weight loss as a side effect would be ok.  Also, I love Innova. Cassie is on it and I'm going to try to get Sammy onto it, also.  Daisy can't due to her allergies.

[chaos270]

Be VERY careful with the Proin.  It can cause elevated heart rates and blood pressure. If she doesn't especially need it I wouldn't give it to her. It lead to my aussie turning really aggressive to the point she would go after me and my mom for no reason....we are the two people she normally totally respects.  She did have some fear aggression prior but the added stress of the side effects lead to her going over the edge.  We took her off the meds and within a week she was no longer snapping at us.  Our vet decided to check her other patients and quite a few had the elevated rates.  I'm pretty sure I started a thread in the medical section last year after it happened.  I'll post the link if I can find it.

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,8827.0.html

If you do decide to place her on it make sure your vet checks her over after about a week to make sure she isn't having any problems.

[GoldenPyrs]

Ohhh, thank you very much for the warning. I'll read this thread completely and discuss it with hubby and maybe the vet before we decide to try it.  Thank you!

[ZooCrew]

I guess I should also mention that my vet told me when we started it that most dogs do not have to be on it forever.  Most can be on it for a month or two, then come off of it.  That didn't work in my case, she started leaking again......... but apparently after almost 2 yrs she came off it fine with no leaking.

[kathryn]

My vet said the same thing of having patients come off of it so I have hope that Kaila can be weened off of it at some point.  When Kaila was diagnosed I got great advice from everyone on here about the side effects and stuff.  I also talked to my vet about the aggression side effect and we decided to go ahead and try the Prion and at the first sign of aggression we would pull her off of it. So far we haven't had any problems.   

The way my vet described it to me is that they are playing so hard that they don't get the signal that they need to potty so they don't.  Then when they rest the muscles relax and then they leak. 

[chaos270]

Yeah it did mainly work she only has problems occasionally even now a year after she came off but just be careful to keep an eye on her (I think she was on it for about a year or two). You can mainly see it in their eyes when the side effects are starting.  Our vet said it was due to a build up most likely so maybe put her on it but monitor her carefully to make sure she doesn't have problems.

[GoldenPyrs]

Thank you all for the info.  We are debating how to handle this since Daisy has always been a bit on the nervous/anxious side, so these side effects might be worse for her and at 8 y/o I worry about stressing her heart.  Maybe we can just try to keep her from running for awhile and avoid the meds, but we feel badly when she looks out the window and whines when she sees her sister playing without her.  So you can see the dilemma....  I think that I'll talk to the vet about the side effects next week.  You've given us great info, thank you all!

[kathryn]

Talk to you vet about using Sudafed or something similar.  Basically Prion is just mini-thins.  I've heard that OTC Sudafed will work just the same and it may avoid some of the side effects. 

[GoldenPyrs]

Thank you Kathryn, I will ask about the Sudafed.  It would be nice to have another option.  She (the vet) did offer one other option when we had Daisy's appt.  It was to put her on a synthetic female hormone (I don't recall what it was called) but it's possible side effect was cancer, so we chose the Proin.  We just lost our 3 y/o Pyr to inoperable bone cancer last year, so possibly increasing the risk of cancer really worried us.  Do you have any experience with this hormone?

[kathryn]

No, sorry I don't have any experience with that.  The only synthetic hormone I have experience with is thyroid and that's for me not my pups.  I'm so sorry to hear about you Pyr.   

[graceclaire]

Hi,
  I've got two 8 year old female Doberman's who have been incontinent (almost) since they were spade.  Instead of limiting it's playtime, you could try using waterproof pads. We used to use dispoable, but now use washable pads that you can buy from Carol Wright magazine for  $9 to $10 each. We've got lot's of these pads that we put in the chairs they sit on and in our bed.  Good luck!

[GoldenPyrs]

Hi GraceClaire and welcome to BPO.  Thanks a lot for the info on the washable pads.  They do sound like a great option!  Since I originally posted this back in early April, thankfully Daisy has been doing great.  We limited her activity only by keeping her from running laps in the yard with Cassie (our 2 yr old rocket Pyr  ).  Daisy still plays with Cassie, just not the thundering zoomies that they had before that seemed to start up the incontinence problem each time.  Daisy also plays with Sammy (3-5 yr old Pyr), but he's much slower moving, so that doesn't seem to cause her any problems, either.  We've also managed to help her drop the extra 5lbs that seemed to also exacerbate the problem.  We took a "wait & see" attitude towards the meds, so I have them on hand but we haven't needed to use them yet.  Thanks, I'll definately keep the washable pads in mind though as I'm sure that this will continue to come & go and most likely will worsen unfortunately as she ages.