I need help! Peyton has food agression I think!

[peytons mama]

Whenever we feed Peyton, we have always put our hands on her or in the bowl so that she gets used to playing with her while she is eating. Last night I fed her and was in the process of going to pet her and she growled at me. Just a little one, but a growl non the less.
I do not know what to do.
I have also been gripping her jaw and cheeks when she bites and she has the hang of it "If I bite I get hurt." So when I go to get her muzzle so I can do that she growls at me. I am the only person she likes to bite on. My boyfriend can tell her "no" and she will stop. Me, she sinks her dang teeth into.
I do not know what to do.
I am saving up for obidience (sp) class for her which in the books and some on the web say to wait till they are 12 weeks old. That's in 3 weeks. I want to do it as soon as possible.
I am not sure if she is just having a problem with me in general or if she will continue challenging me with her growls. I know this food agression has to stop, but how? I do not want to put her down.

I need help!

[patrick]

Me thinks you are a large part of the problem  Why on earth are you grabbing her head and hurting her- she is a little baby and puppies mouth and chew everything.  Aggression returns aggression and it sounds like she thinks you are a threat at this point.  There is a LOT of info on the internet about bite inhibition training in a puppy- at nine weeks old she is just starting.  I think she is too young for obedience but puppy kindergarten is ideal for a young puppy to start learning some basic manners. 

[peytons mama]

2 days ago she would let me put my hand on her head, in the bowl, on the bowl, let me scoot the bowl and food around. Yesterday, she growled a little bit when I put my hand in the bowl to scoot the food around. So I pet her head and shoulders instead, thought she was just really hungry so I left the food itself alone. (She was eating at 8:30 pm instead of 7:00 - 7:15 pm.)
This morning I went to feed her (half the amount we normally feed her) and only pet her head and it was a much louder growl and she forced her head to the side of the bowl that my hand was on her head (L side head  L side bowl or R side head R side bowl).
When my boyfriend woke up and got ready for work, I asked him to put some food down (less than half the amount we normally feed her) and he moved the bowl around, put his hand in the bowl played with the food...no growl!
I gave her the other half that she normally gets (so now she has a full serving) and I go to pet her head and she is growling at me.
I was thinking that maybe the muzzle thing is too "mean" or agressive in her eyes and that's why she is having a problem with me, so my boyfriend really wants to try the squirt bottles. (I bought them a couple of weeks ago but forget to use them) So I am gonna fill them up and see what happens.
Thanks for the quick reply!

[mama23+pyrs2]

Me thinks you are a large part of the problem  Why on earth are you grabbing her head and hurting her- she is a little baby and puppies mouth and chew everything.  Aggression returns aggression and it sounds like she thinks you are a threat at this point.  There is a LOT of info on the internet about bite inhibition training in a puppy- at nine weeks old she is just starting.  I think she is too young for obedience but puppy kindergarten is ideal for a young puppy to start learning some basic manners. 

There was a thread about bite inhibition prior: http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,17203.0.html

I know I gave my thoughts on it there. Forgive me but I don't think your advice to her was helpful in trying to solve her problem. I believe she grabs his face when he is biting her to try and curb the biting,  I know she had posted about that before and was given some tips then. While I agree basic manners should be started immediately, I DON'T believe puppies need to be allowed to bite at all. Different circumstances require different training methods, and in our house, we don't allow the biting. Not from our 4 month old puppies now, not from our 8 week old puppies then. They mouth us- no matter how 'normal' for dogs it is, we aren't dogs and I don't play that way, they get told a firm 'NO BITING', if that doesn't work, they get their lips squeezed lightly so they can feel their teeth, and that works to end it quickly.

I just think it's important to 'suggest' and give tips or advice maybe from your own experience rather than 'tell' someone what to do or worse yet- what they are doing wrong. Your way, won't be everyone's way or the way for every dog. My way is too educate myself and talk to people and gather a little bit from this and that and find my own way. So far, we have some of the most well mannered and behaved big 4 month old puppies I've seen.  ;)Got a ways to go, but I'm very pleased with their progress.

[mama23+pyrs2]

Also, I had a post about bone agression a little while back and that covered food agression as well, this may help you to read, as there was a lot of advice given:

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,17094.0.html

[peytons mama]

Thank you. When I would do the muzzle thing with her cheeks, I wouldn't do any of the pressure, it all came from her alone. I just turned the cheeks in to let her feel how it felt to be poked with her sharp @$$ teeth. (I can't wait till those things fall out and to have less pointy teeth come in)

[mama23+pyrs2]

Thank you. When I would do the muzzle thing with her cheeks, I wouldn't do any of the pressure, it all came from her alone. I just turned the cheeks in to let her feel how it felt to be poked with her sharp @$$ teeth. (I can't wait till those things fall out and to have less pointy teeth come in)

That's what we do, well I do since I'm pretty much the only one the corrects anybody around here. but I apply slight pressure. I've even heard to squeeze until they squeak but I can't do that, that seems cruel to me. Anyway, I don't think it's mean at all. Sometimes things I hear initially that work, seem brutal..then again in the pack that's what it is.

[peytons mama]

She does take treats very well. Well, her treats are just her dog food one at a time to get praised with. The vet told us since she was having such horible squirts to just use her dog food as treats until her digestive track gets stronger.
But we never taught her how to sit, she did it on her own. Sure we say sit as she sits so she can recognize the word with the action, but when we give treats for going potty outside after a long day, and when she waits and sits nicely for her leash and when she does sit while on walks (we stop every now and again to make her get used to "when we stop she sits" thing). She sits nicely and gently takes it out of fingers. We use the word "nice" when we give treats.

[Nina]

I have had experience with food aggression (one of our fosters) and it is not fun. He would take treats from me no prob, but when it came to food NOWAY. He turned into a different dog. Well as Cesar Millan would say he became an animal. Sorry this may be long but I think that it will give you some insight.

With this dog there was no getting rid of his food aggression we had to manage it until we could find the right home for him. His food aggression came from puppyhood. He had parvo as a puppy and had to fight for his food, therefore I think he will be food aggressive always.

Now question for you was peyton the runt of her litter? Was she sick as a puppy?
I am asking because this may answer why she is acting like this now.
If not then I think that she challenging you, I think this because she is not acting like this towards your boyfriend, she sees him as a leader and not you.

Does she show other signs of dominance?

If so then I would think that this food thing is a dominance thing and you need to show her that you are the pack leader.

Nina

[chaosndestruction]

I'm with Kristina I don't think that muzzle grabbing is mean. In wolves it's how they get after a pup/wolf when they've been bad. Arisha does it to Keela A LOT ('risha has a tiny bit of wolf in her)! I didn't know why this was until I watched A Man Among Wolves the other night.

[schelmischekitty]

that was an AWESOME show!  i agree, that she might see your B/F as the leader and not you.  you may also want to try walking her short distances, and doing obedience at home, just so she starts to see you as a leader also.  i don't do the muzzle grabbing, but mainly b/c i can't grab around my dogs' (three out of five of them at least) jaws unless i use two hands and it's pretty awkward.  the water bottle does help a lot though.  we've also had great luck with putting the food bowl down and making ours "wait" until we say "go eat."  that way they know i control the food source, and if they act up, it'll just be longer until they get the release.  the NILIF (nothing in life is free) might be a thought, though she may be a little young for it now.  if she knows basic commands though, you may want to give it a whirl and see how she reacts.

also, you may be aggravating her a little bit with not only changing the amount of food she got, but also the time she ate.  i've noticed puppies do great when they're on a schedule, but at the same time if they're super used to it, it can cause them to act out if it's disrupted.  consistency really helps.  it may be making her a little unsure of things, esp. if you haven't had her long and she had to fight in a big litter for food, or had a bad experience with food availability as a baby.

[Mojo1269]

If your dog is less than 12 weeks you may want to ease upa bit.  WHile I agree this hsould be dealt head on, and immediately I would not get too worked up.  Young dogs go through many phases and so last longer than others.  I would encourage you to find an appropraite response to the agression but do not get to worked up over a day or two of this.  I train my new puppy owners to do a "dominace down".  This is done by placing the dog down and applying gentle but firm pressure between the shoulder blades so the animal knows you are in charge. Feel free to talk to them and stroke their head with a free hand but do not let them up until you have determined it is time.  This is one of a mutitude of effective measures for dealing with this.  But again, if she is just a baby, do not be discouraged or over react to any given 72 hour period.

[peytons mama]

We are using the spray bottle as I type.  She has truely responded to it quite well.
We tried the bowl thing again, and for now, she is okay with us moving the bowl but not having our hands in it. We can take it away just fine and put it back. I do think Peyton sees my boyfriend as the dominant one.
I have been doing some leash techniques everyday where we walk a few steps and stop and wait for her to sit (up to about 6 mins each time!) and when she sits, I walk a few steps then stop...so on and so on until we have gone around the house.
She wasn't the runt, she was the biggest of the litter (all females! not one boy!) but she was also the laziest, so I don't know if that makes a difference or not.
We unfortunately got her from a local pet store so we don't have the background on her from when she was born til we bought her. But from what the pet store told us, she was the biggest, the laziest and the quietest.
We took her to the vet within 48 hours of getting her (we got her the day before Easter) and he ran tests and had her first exams, and according to the results, she wasn't sick at all. She did have diarreah due to changes of food, but that was it.
Anyway, thank you for all your help and responces! If you still have more to tell me and more advice to give...Keep em coming! I need all the help I can get!
Thanks again!

[Brownis15]

try to remember to not be tense or worried AT all when you go near the bowl. After you heard her growl you are probably approaching the bowl anxiously, or worried "what if she growls now, oh no" type thing, shes gonna pick up on that. Sounds like she is testing you too. I would do more than just pet her and put your hand in the bowl, cos that can be annoying, i would put you hand in the bowl and grab a handful of kibble and take the bowl away, say happy things in a high pitched tone, when the bowl is away, offer her the kibble in your hand, let her eat it, then return the bowl. Then pet her breifly, and sit with her. Sit cross legged wih the bowl in your lap when she eats. You should be with her at every meal, dont put it down and leave then come back and do the exercise. Do the hand in the bowl exercise twice a meal and thats it, talk happy through the whole thing, GOOD GIRL YEY YEY type thing. Bu make sure she has to be around you when she eats. She has no choice. She will soon realize you being there with the food is no threat.

Hope this helps!

[peytons mama]

I love that idea! That's the whole reason why we put her bowl in the kitchen, cuz we are always in it. Not noisely and chaoticly but just everyday stuff...dishes, we fold laundry on the kitchen table, meals...so we put her in there so when she eats, we are there.
But I love the idea of using myself as the actual food control. I will have to try that at lunch! (She already had breakfast!)
Thank you!!!