Author Topic: American pitbulls and other bully breeds  (Read 78163 times)

Offline KJUNMAMI

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 81
  • My Justice baby
    • View Profile
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2007, 12:56:07 am »
One of THE best websites EVER on pitbulls etc.  Education for those who know nothing about the dogs or for those who claim to know everything will learn a whole lot more... http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

I spent hours there.  Excellent site.

I am glad you Put up that site. It is very good, but there are many more sites available and all have great information. If anyone wants to learn about apbts I suggest searching though google and reading many different websites. Just stay away from Biased sites. Not only may they really dislike pits and feed you racist info, but they may love pitbulls and lead you away from facts. These dogs are wonderful companions for THE RESPONSIBLE OWNER ONLY!!! Well all have a wonderful week!!  ;D ;D ;D
Mommy to
one baby girl 1 yr and one boy 3 yrs
pitbull Justice-70 lbs. @ 10 mos.
2 kitties Thelma and Louise 1 year.

Offline fila4me

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2007, 04:21:30 am »


I have to disagree about Pyrs being prone to attack people. There is a huge difference in the breed purpose. Pyrs are to protect the flock, Pitbulls are to guard the property and people. Pyrs are barkers and not attackers. Anyone can enter the house with Pyr in it and do not suffer an injury. Now, try doing it with Pitbull in it! Pitbulls are wonderful companions and great guard dogs. They will go for the throat! "Truly quality companions for quality owners only!"
Pit bulls are NOT guard dogs! They stink at it! My girl will bark until I open the door! Then the attack is on, the lick attack!!!!And, they do not go for the throat. Not sure where you heard that myth. That ranks right with "lock jaw"! Here is a little info from www.pitbullson theweb.com

A Good Pit Bull

A Good Pit Bull is a very people-oriented dog. It's a dog who smiles at your visitors and greets them with a wagging tail. A good Pit Bull is confident and alert, and like most canines, will let you know if there is something around the house or in your driveway. However, a good Pit Bull will let YOU take care of intruders because YOU are the leader and its YOUR job to protect the pack. Your dog should not have to interpret threats and act on them.

You "hopefully" didn't get a Pit Bull to protect you anyway. If you needed a guard dog, you would have looked into other breeds more suitable for protection, or best, just get a good alarm system. You would not impose to an animal the responsibility to judge situations and make intelligent decisions that could eventually bite him back in the @ss if ever he was wrong...!

You got a Pit Bull because you wanted a trustworthy and friendly companion, and maybe a dog with an impressive look and confidant demeanor so people would "think" you have a good guard dog. You have since realized that YOU better be the guard dog because your Pit Bull is indeed more at risk of being stolen than your TV.

Don't be bummed. If ever you are the victim of an act of violence, a good Pit Bull will probably instinctively attempt to defend you because you are the food provider and he depends on you for his survival (and yes, he loves you too ;-) If you are not being aggressed though, a good Pit Bull will be friendly with anyone with no distinction in regard to age, sex, skin color, clothing, ect, because a good Pit Bull is a stable dog and you have socialized him well.

You can take your good Pit Bull in public and do breed PR with him because you trust your dog and your dog trusts you. He is not unpredictable, unstable, fearful, uncontrollable, or selective of who he "likes" and who makes him uncomfortable. Your good Pit Bull will work with you to improve the reputation of the breed by showing people how cool and friendly good Pit Bulls really are.

If your dog is not like that, please do not take him in public and do all you can to keep him out of trouble. Remember that we are the solders of an important battle. Our dogs are no ordinary dogs. They are being "targeted", "pointed at" and "outcast" by society. They are on the verge of being completely banned out of this country. Our dogs have something to prove right now, and so do we.

A friend of mine's house was broken into while she was at work. She lost everything but her bed, her dogs and their crates. When she got home all of her pit bulls, she has 4, were in their crates. She keeps them in seperate rooms with doors shut while she is gone. Crates are only for night time. Good guard dogs, NOT!! The robbers put them in their crates.
Tammy
Chynna-APBT 8 1/2 yrs
Bo-Husky mix 11 1/2 yrs
Gracie-Argentine Dogo 10yrs
Dutchess-Eng. Springer RIP
Jordan-Eng. Springer RIP
Icca-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Jezzabelle-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Paco-Argentine Dogo RIP
Falcon-Argentine Dogo RIP

Offline DogGuideDan

  • Veteran Dog Chomper
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
    • The Dog Guide
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2007, 05:51:00 am »
I am going to fully agree with what was stated in the "Good Pit Bull Post".

As someone who has extensive experience with Bully breeds for the past 9 years (I own a 6yo APBT, have fostered and continue to foster countless bull breeds and did behavioral work at a bull-exclusive shelter), here are my experiences with these wonderful dogs:

1) Pit Bulls make lousy guard dogs!  (I had to teach my girl to bark/growl by wiggling my eyebrows and now when I ask her to make noise, she lets out this coonhound-esque bay while waggling her entire rear end). This is a breed that was bred for many, MANY years to be extremely non-human aggressive. What sense would it make to breed a dog that was once used for fighting to turn and latch onto the human that was trying to intervene and break up a fight? - none.  A human aggressive Pit is not a stable pit.   It is true that they may have dog/animal aggression, but not all American Pit Bull Terriers are this way.  An APBT that shows a tendincy towards human aggressive should get one simple solution - an injection of pink juice.  It may sound harsh, but these wonderful dogs don't deserve any more bad press.

2. I'd just like to throw out a few statistics...b ecause the math frustrates me:
The information at http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html is meaningless at best.

“According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.”

When you lump together “pit bulls” and “pit bull mixes” - essentially redundant designations that encompass an extremely huge population of mutts, along with another popular breed, Rottweilers you get just over 50% of serious dog attacks. Is this a surprise? A pit bull is in the eye of the beholder, and when that eye is a news reporter looking for a fantastic story or a policemen, it’s usually the dog that just bit someone.

The statistics regarding children are also misleading. Most serious dog attacks are on children. Period.

Then lets look at these:
Let’s take the (Very flawed) CDC statistics (a study they did where they tracked dog bites from 1979-1998) for an example, even as flawed as they are.
“Pit Bulls” (and mixes) are responsible for 76 deaths in 20 years according to the study. That averages out to 3.8 deaths -per year-.
Okay. Sure.
In 2004, there were approximately 1,117 children that died by neglect and/or abuse at the hands of their own parents, according to the Admistration for Children and Families. That averages out to 3 *per day*.

Are we working to ban parents too?
-Dan
Reef- 6yo APBT
Lucian - Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy
www.dogguide.n et

Saint Butterfly

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2007, 09:12:15 pm »
Hello Everybody

At first i was going to avoid this disscusion... I knew it would be asking for trouble because so many people are so sensitive to it.. But i must say that i am getting so sick and tired of hearing people try to defend Pitbulls from the media... And blaming the Media for the bad publicity of the Breed.... Why are Pitbull Lovers and owners spending so much time getting upset everytime a attack is mentioned an the television... Why are you not out trying to protect this breed you Love from irresponsible people...You should be warning people of the Strenghth of the Dog when it is in the Hands of a irresponsible pet owner... Of course i know this can go for any Dog, But as we all know Pitbulls are very Strong, and most people and Children that do get attacked by one rarley survive to talk about it...Look at your local Paper in the Classified adds... Every week there are about 3 to 5 adds selling Pitbull Pups.... any where from 100$ to 300$..... where the other breeds are being sold for much more Money... People are more likely to buy a Pitbull Pup if they can not afford anything else... Most of these people are young, and Misinformed how to raise this dog... They will assume you have to be extra tough with it to get it to listen... Many people Train these dogs all wrong.... Go to your local pet Shelter... You will see that most dogs in there are Pitbulls or Pitbull mixes..... Ask the Shelter which dog breed is put down most in a year... It would be the Pitbull or Pit Mixes.... Ask a Animal control worker which breed they get calls on the MOst, and which breed they have been attacked by the most.... It would again be Pitbull.... I am not out to belittle the Breed at all.... Pitbull is actually a very amazing Dog when in the hands of a responsible pet owner, But unfortunatly that it not the majority no matter what it said.... Go walk down some of the lower class neighborhoods in your area.... You will be amazed to see how many pitbulls are tied to chains.... There are a lot of them....I am not afarid of the responsible Pet owners Pitbull.... More than likely i will never see them walking down the road by them selves.... I do not have to be afraid of their Dog....The Pitbull walking down the road by it's self is not going to be wagging it's tail with the Big Pitbull Smile on it's face.....I know there are problems with many other breeds of dogs as well.... But this Post is about the Pitbull.... Pitbull owners and Lovers... If you Love this dog sooo much, then why are you not out trying to protect it from Irresponsible people and over Breeding instead of always trying to protect it against the Media, and from people who are afraid of them....You more than anyone are aware of the strenghth of this dog..... you also know what it is capable of when in the hands of the wrong person.....Thi s has been going on for years now.... It always has been a heated Discussion.... . It is always hard to defend your point when talking about Pitbulls with Someone who is trying to protect them.... I do not think the Pitbull should be banned completley, But i do believe people should have to apply to have one, and be registered.... I admire that some of you want to save the Pitbulls reputation, But i also think you are going about it the wrong way..... I apoligize if anyone has been offended, But i do beieve what i am saying to be right..

Kind Regards,
Shell

Nicole

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2007, 09:22:58 pm »
Shell,

First, let me apoligize right from the beginning. I read the first few lines of your post and then sort of scanned the rest. It was very difficult to read because of all the ...'s. Just being honest!  ;D

Anyway, I think that the so-called "Pittbull lovers" DO try and educate about their favorite breed. I think that is what happened from the beginning in this thread! I'm a huge advocate for the breed (and I don't own one). I'm CONSTANTLY trying to educate, educate, educate.

And, as far as "most of the dogs in the shelters" being pitties, that's just a random guess on your part. I have worked in several shelters in different parts of the country. Ya know what the number one breed was in the shelter in Bloomington, IN where I worked? Hounds. Yup. Beagles, Bloodhounds, Coonhounds, Heelers, GSP...people thought they were all hunters down there. They bred and raised good ol' huntin' dogs. We put down more of that breed than anything else. Sooo...as far as the pitty perception...y ou're just kinda wrong.


Where is the data proving that people are more likely to buy a pitty pup if they can't afford anything else? I haven't ever read that study. Last time I checked, pups at my shelter carried a $65 adoption fee. I was there 2 days ago, and didn't see a pitty in there. Not one. But there is a wonderful Newf X girl I'm going to adopt...

My point is that you are basing your views on your own perceptions. Which is FINE, but don't try and state them as fact.

OH, and I forgot to add:

Lucian's daddy: AAAAAAAAAAAMEN! More kids are murdered by their parents than dogs. Thanks for making this sobering point.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 09:23:56 pm by Nicole »

Nicole

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2007, 09:47:23 pm »
Oh, Jenn. Good point about the Golden. It doesn't matter what the breed is. Bad owners are bad owners. You know what the big thing was in North Carolina when I lived there?

Wolf hybrids.

Yup. People all had these "wolves" ("He's 98.245% Timber. Fer real"  ::)) There were so many of them in shelters, and they had to put them down. It sucked. And so many of them were just tied up in the back 40. People thought they were "wild" and could take care of themselves. Idiots.


Offline DogGuideDan

  • Veteran Dog Chomper
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
    • The Dog Guide
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2007, 10:12:37 pm »
Hi again,
Besides doing my part and attempting to debunk the media's attempts at railroading one of my favorite breeds of dog, I also spend a great deal of time educating the public (and less dog savvy folks) about what exactly is involved in owning one of these guys.

One perfect example of this is my somewhat controversial (to some) stance on Pitties and dogparks.  My Reef girl is not dog aggressive.  I have had her for 6 years - she has been exposed to countless fosters and boarders of all shapes, sizes and personality types coming in and out of this house (not to mention many different species- from rats to cats to squirrels to possums to raccoons to ..oh you don't even want to know!)  She meets every dog on the street with a friendly sniff and then, if they know their manners, a play bow and maybe even some zoomies if they get to know each other *really* well!  (if there is attempted humping involved she'll give a warning bark and turn the other way!)  All this being said- she will NEVER go to a dog park.  Nor do I think that any Pit Bull belongs in a dog park in this day and age, be it the most placid and peaceful of dogs.  My reason for this- if an altercation starts- between ANY dogs- if the bully goes to check it out- pack mentality takes over- if it gets involved in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM- guess who is going to be blamed?  The evil Pit Bull.  Case closed.  If a toddler (who shouldn't be in a dog park anyways) gets knocked over by a overzealous dog and it happens to be a Pit Bull - it's going to get spun as an attempted "attack" - The breed simply can't handle it.  My Reef girl gets to go to street fairs, trail hikes, camping and all sorts of fun adventures, but the dog park is forever off limits, due to her "race".
-Dan
Reef- 6yo APBT
Lucian - Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy
www.dogguide.n et

Nicole

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2007, 10:18:59 pm »
I hear ya, Dan. I don't blame you one bit. Its too big of a risk to take. And its through no fault of Reef's own, ya know?

Offline DogGuideDan

  • Veteran Dog Chomper
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
    • The Dog Guide
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2007, 10:44:40 pm »
H Ask a Animal control worker which breed they get calls on the MOst, and which breed they have been attacked by the most.... It would again be Pitbull....

Having worked in a Humane society setting for a good amount of time, I would absolutely disagree with this statement- 100%.  I can think of one - MAYBE 2 times I had to use a catch pole on a Pit.  When I think of the breeds that routinely went after us the ones that come to mind are:
Chows
Min Pins
Chi's
Cockers
Dalmations

I know many others in the animal control field who will also back me up on that statement. (about the APBT's that is)
-Dan
Reef- 6yo APBT
Lucian - Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy
www.dogguide.n et

Saint Butterfly

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2007, 10:59:47 pm »
Nicole

You must have read most of my post, because you responded to everything I said... I live next to a man who works for Animal Control, and we have had many disscussions about pitbulls.I also have a Brother who raises, and breeds Good Pitbulls.. He will be the first to tell you about the issues,  He is also trying to protect the Breed from irresponsible people, and does not constantly make excuses when a animal attacks.. He also screens anyone who wants one of his Pups, And He will say there is a Huge problem with over breeding by irresponsible people.... Funny how people can get so defensive over this stuff.. Remember a Dog is a reflection of the Owner.. Keep that in mind

Shell

Also... Next time you get a chance look at your classified Adds

Offline fila4me

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2007, 12:09:33 am »
I live in Roanoke, VA. My step-in and out mom is a retired ACO of 25yrs. And, before that she was a vet tech. FOr the last 5yrs since she retired she has helped established 2 low cost spay neuter clinics.Everyt hing she does is for the animals. I have spent many years at the shelters with her either walking, bathing, brushing and/or just giving love and attention to shelter animals. She has had numerous rescues in and out of her house. That said, here we do not have an overabundance of pits in the shelters, most reported bites are from goldens, cockers, chows or labs. She said in all of her years she has only met 1 nasty pit bull!

My boyfriend is a UPS delivery driver and has been bitten by a schnauzer and a couple of labs. The most aggressive dogs he sees are shepherds, Labs and mixes. He says he has seen a lot of pit bulls on his route but they just bark and keep their distance. One shepherd in particular jumped in the back of his truck and wouldn't let him back in!

And, I ALWYAS preach resposible pet ownership. I am teaching my 3 1/2 yro daughter the proper way to be a pet owner. Check out www.maxtheshel terdog.com and you will see my daughter Kellin and our dog Chynna all over it! Positive image!! We hang out on most Saturdays outside Petsmart with Chynna in tow, to promote positive pit bull imaging. Chynna is trained in basic and advanced obedience, has her CGC and is a certified therapy dog! I take her everywhere and expose her. I am never to busy to answer anyones questions regarding pit bulls!

I live my life with my dogs like this, the moment I leave my house with my dog(even in my yard),we(my dog and I)represent EVERY dog that breed! So, if I am some bi**hy pit bull owner and rude when people comment and/or ask questions, and believe me most are not nice,and showed an attitude to them what would that do! It would just enforce their negative image regarding this breed and the type of people who own them! If my dog is misbehaved and out of control, that reflects bad on the whole breed. It is sad that it works that way but it does and I don't want that image. I want people that meet Chynna to remember and tell others what an awesome pit bull they met! And believe me that is the only thing they could say after meeting her!

And, Shell I do cruise the classifieds daily! Here we have very few ads for pit bulls. But, believe me I do call them when they are in there.

In regards to your brother who breeds and raises "Good Pit bulls" and is trying to protect them, one question! Why does he breed them then? For every puppy he breeds that is one more pit bull that loses its life in a shelter! Has he the responsible breeder never thought of it that way?Does he keep track of his pups until they die? Does he have a strict contract that states he can remove the pup/dog if he disapproves of current living situations?Does he rescue? Do his breeding stock have all available health tests and screenings with results for potential purchasers to view? Does he show his dogs?If so, are they titled?Does he do weight pull?Agility? Do they have their CGC? Therapy dogs? What extreme quality and characteristic s do they posses that they we excellent specimens to breed?Does he do home visits?vet verifications? Talk to neighbors during home visit?

I am sorry but, I feel very strongly about this for ANY breed! I mentored years ago with the breeder of my FIlas and Dogos and those where a few of the things that she does. She is very strict and most people don't make it past the first page of her application. I have repo'd more than a couple of dogs with her that even after all of the hoops the owners hid things. But she will only sell within a 200 mile radius. And, I still do random home checks for her! It is a lot of fun!

 


Tammy
Chynna-APBT 8 1/2 yrs
Bo-Husky mix 11 1/2 yrs
Gracie-Argentine Dogo 10yrs
Dutchess-Eng. Springer RIP
Jordan-Eng. Springer RIP
Icca-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Jezzabelle-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Paco-Argentine Dogo RIP
Falcon-Argentine Dogo RIP

Saint Butterfly

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2007, 01:39:01 am »
Julie, That is exactly my point.. I have said in no way am i trying to bash a breed.. i also stated how people get very defensive when discussing Pitbulls.. I have involved myself in a conversation that will go no where except getting more defensive comments back, But i will say to Tammy.. I truely admire what you are doing.. You are very right when you say it is important that you keep a good tone with people when talking about the breed you love.. That is what i mean when i said " A dog is a reflection of its owner" I have found that in talking about Pitbulls most of the people do become very defensive, and that is why it becomes hard to talk about it... Tammy you are doing the Best thing you can be doing for your breed with that kind of attitude, My Brother is doing the very same thing, and i also admire him for that... My brother has 5 children, and he has never had a problem at all with any of his dogs hurting his children, But his son was attacked by another Pitbull on the street in front of his house, and most of his little face was ripped off... My Brother is extremly strong, and was able to save his Son... I had mentioned in another post how a Pitbull charged my yard after my Son, and was saved by my Saint Bernard "Butterfly"... I feel i have the right to state a comment without having to defend what i say.. I think that those of you who are choosing to get bad attitudes in return are the ones who are making it hard on responsible Pitbull owners to state there case... Julie. I admire the Pitbull... I dislike ignorant people

Shell

Nicole

  • Guest
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2007, 02:20:18 am »
Nicole

You must have read most of my post, because you responded to everything I said... I live next to a man who works for Animal Control, and we have had many disscussions about pitbulls.I also have a Brother who raises, and breeds Good Pitbulls.. He will be the first to tell you about the issues,  He is also trying to protect the Breed from irresponsible people, and does not constantly make excuses when a animal attacks.. He also screens anyone who wants one of his Pups, And He will say there is a Huge problem with over breeding by irresponsible people.... Funny how people can get so defensive over this stuff.. Remember a Dog is a reflection of the Owner.. Keep that in mind

Shell

Also... Next time you get a chance look at your classified Adds

Hi Shell,
Took your advice. Here are the classifieds from the Michigan City News Dispatch.

 1 Free to good home, male neutered Lab/Basset Mix, needs room to roam. (219)874-6741 
   2 Kittens, fluffy fur balls, free to good homes. 219-861-7008 
   3 Weimaraner - Male
Free to good home, 8 months, housetrained. Call (219)448-0164 


Ok. Now what?

Offline DogGuideDan

  • Veteran Dog Chomper
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
    • The Dog Guide
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2007, 05:02:26 am »
Ok... please, I don't mean to be nitpicky (maybe I do) but the breed is an American Pit Bull Terrier. So call them Pits, or Pit Bulls or APBT's , but a "pitbull" is not a breed.  - done.


Shell,
I am curious too about the questions Nicole asked- does your brother title his dogs?  Compete in events (CGC, weight pull)?  Does he do complete health testing (includes hip and elbow x-rays, cardiac and thyroid tests, as well as testing for genetic problems?  Does he have waiting lists for his litters?

If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, I'm sorry to say that he is only contributing to the problem of the many,many Pit Bulls who do need homes.
-Dan
Reef- 6yo APBT
Lucian - Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy
www.dogguide.n et

Offline fila4me

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2007, 05:05:25 am »
Ok... please, I don't mean to be nitpicky (maybe I do) but the breed is an American Pit Bull Terrier. So call them Pits, or Pit Bulls or APBT's , but a "pitbull" is not a breed.  - done.


Shell,
I am curious too about the questions Nicole asked- does your brother title his dogs?  Compete in events (CGC, weight pull)?  Does he do complete health testing (includes hip and elbow x-rays, cardiac and thyroid tests, as well as testing for genetic problems?  Does he have waiting lists for his litters?

If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, I'm sorry to say that he is only contributing to the problem of the many,many Pit Bulls who do need homes.

Actually, I am Tammy. I asked those important questions! And, I do agree on the "pitbull", "pittbull" bothers me also.
Tammy
Chynna-APBT 8 1/2 yrs
Bo-Husky mix 11 1/2 yrs
Gracie-Argentine Dogo 10yrs
Dutchess-Eng. Springer RIP
Jordan-Eng. Springer RIP
Icca-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Jezzabelle-Fila Brasileiro RIP
Paco-Argentine Dogo RIP
Falcon-Argentine Dogo RIP