American pitbulls and other bully breeds

[horsepoor21]

It's been my experience , with a rottie (actually , two ) raised by different family members , and some other dogs at the vet clinic I used to work at , that rotties and some other bully breeds are more apt to "turn" on their owners . Well ,actually the one rottie turned on my son instead of his own family , but anyways .... Okay , I just can't seem to find the right words for this . What I'm trying to say is , yes , all breeds bite , but what about the breeds that "turn" for no reason at all ? Like my sister in law's rottie that came from awesome breeders , was raised in a wonderful family , had wonderful training and then one day just attacked my son ? What about my brother in law's rottie that turned on him ? What about the other dogs I witnessed at the clinic doing the same thing ? Are these breeds more apt to do that ? I've never heard of a Newfie turning on their owner ,but then again , is it the media not mentioning it ? I'm just too scared to be around bully breeds as I'm so afraid one will turn on my kids .
This is not meant to offend anyone . It's just that I've SEEN it happen , to my little baby , and I'll never be able to trust a rottie again . No matter how sweet and loving it is .But actually , after my son was attacked ,I was ready to never own a dog again . But that obviously changed . LOL 

[horsepoor21]

That is what I always believed too until I saw it happen . We had been around this dog and loved him to death for almost 5 years . I KNOW he was bred properly ,I KNOW he was trained properly , he was checked out by a good vet and no physical reasons were found that would contribute to his behavior . He was raised with 4 kids , he and my son had been around eachother for over a year . We visited them often . Then one day , we were all standing around by the barn talking , my son was playing in the dirt at our feet with his back to the dog , and out of nowhere the dog lunged at him and grabbed him around the back of his neck . It took two men to beat him off of my son .
He just turned . There was absolutely no other reason . It still totally blows my mind to think of it that way , but it's true . That's why it scares me so much .

[horsepoor21]

I thought rotties were awesome dogs too , this dog was incredibly sweet and until this happened , a great representation of the breed . I know they all don't turn , but I just won't take the chance . If it had been a newfie , you can bet I wouldn't own them either .

Oh well . I saw what I saw and I've been changed forever .

[mama23+pyrs2]

I thought rotties were awesome dogs too , this dog was incredibly sweet and until this happened , a great representation of the breed . I know they all don't turn , but I just won't take the chance . If it had been a newfie , you can bet I wouldn't own them either .

Oh well . I saw what I saw and I've been changed forever .

I'm quite positive if the people on the board with kids that have nothing but good things to say about some of so called 'vicious' breeds, were to have one of them attack their baby right in front of them for seemingly no reason, they would have a change of heart. If not, well, I don't know what to say about that parent.

I agree with you and if this were to have happened to me, I would feel the same way. You have to put your kids first. No one has the right to try and change your opinion of a dog that attacked your own helpless baby. And you can't change your feelings, that's understandable . I know you're not singling out any breed here, that's clear. It just so happened the one that did it, has a bad reputation also.

[mama23+pyrs2]

Despite what hidden cause there may be that made me dog go off, it seems like these are excuses being made for them and no one feeling bad for the victims. Is this a good enough reason to trust the dog around people/children still? It would sound that way to me.

[mama23+pyrs2]

Well no one said they hated any animal for it, just that they were scared and distrusting, which is understandable . I agree getting an infected bite even from a cat would be scary.

If one of my dogs attacked one of my kids, they would be out of here- end of story. A bigger dog is gonna be able to do a heck of a lot more damage than an ankle biter. But little dogs tend to be much nippier in my experience. And if I had a cat prone to attacking they wouldn't be here either. Yes, having no pets with teeth is about the only way to guarantee no biting.

[mama23+pyrs2]

Just wanted to state again no one said they hated any breed of dog. People are being a bit oversensitive about this in my opinion, but that's just one opinion. I could honestly care less if the whole world could get attacked by a dog and still want to be around it, still put their kids around, or whatever. It's not going to change the fact that I would not. Does it make you better than me? Nope. Just makes us different.

This thread is accomplishing nothing but bitter feelings it seems and the I'm better than you attitude. I still think you guys are great and love that we all are different and so we can bring different things to the table. I don't think that is the case with others though, it would seem people have taken this entirely too personal. It's nice when people can just have a discussion without getting bent. Hopefully it's not done lasting damage.

[Gevaudan_Jo]

I agree with you Liz, I too, wouldnt trust Zero around a kid if my life depended on it... Zero IS NOT socialized to be with kids, we have none, and i dont have any near us that i would net near my dogs with a 20ft pole. Our neighbour kids all torment my dogs, and i warn them to not come into the yard or anything due to UNKNOWN DOG REACTIONS. i said "he probably wouldnt bite, but why chance it! Like, i love him to death, but i know this about him, and while walking him, if kids walk by i will hold him back, and if kids try to approach, i will tell them no. i think more owners should pay more attention to the dogs body language in order to know what will happen.  On the other hand, again, Zero- i wont let him near any dogs i dont know, or he doesnt know... OR any intact males... Zero has BAD BAD BAD dominance issues. and he will go after another dog. Its sad when i see this with the way he treats memphis (Which is why memphis is sperated from him 24/7). it sucks for sure. But because we know this behaviour,we work with it, and work to keep people to KNOW not to let their dogs near mine...
People are idiots... thats all hahaha

[mama23+pyrs2]

I was just trying to say, for example my 5 month old pup could fit my babies whole head in his mouth already if he wanted to, whereas my MIL's maltese could fit like her toe? There is just a big difference there that I think is obvious and doesn't need to be explained. Also a 4lb dog is going to be much easier to gain control over should they bite or attack someone, than a dog who weighs close or more than what I weigh. It makes the situation much more scary and the outcome so much more tragic.

I could honestly care less if people are afraid of my dogs (not because they SHOULD be to clarify), again I know a lot of people want everybody to befriend them and want to be near their dogs but honestly, I don't. Another reason I chose them was for the protection factor and the fact that people will be intimidated by their size etc. and deter them from bothering us. I don't want people coming up to the fence to pet the big white fluffy dogs standing behind it, I want them to be too afraid to come up to the fence since they shouldn't there anyway. I don't feel safe walking alone with my kids down the street, not because I live in a bad area, I don't but because I know that weird people are everywhere. So, I look forward to the day my dogs are huge and intimidating so we can walk down the street and be left alone. Or when hubby has to go out state for work, and leave us here.

It's nice when good people want to engage them and ask questions about them, but when they're older and have come into their protective ways, hopefully they'll know who to trust and who to not.

[mama23+pyrs2]

Okay, I have an idea. Since you guys all seem to agree that it's not right to be afraid of an entire breed based on individual incidents, and that those have nothing to do with the breed itself, but the indivdual traits, problems with that dog. Then it would also be inaccurate to say 'I love Pitbulls', or 'I love Rotties', etc etc, just based on the individuals you have met or owned and had good experiences with. Right? Just because I love my Pyrs and they are the best dogs I've owned so far, I can surely sit here and say I bet I could meet a Pyr I didn't like. So if that's the case I can agree with both of those statments.

Okay, I'm done. Back to the people who want to talk about their dogs because they love their dogs. Enjoy! Time for me to go slave over my house.

I'm OUT!

Real cute pic of Phelan by the way, he has a real kissable face.

[morph's mom]

First off Congrats Phelan that is awsome.

Second off I have never said anything about this before but now I would like to tell you all a story.  This is very hard for me because I still love Sasha and miss her daily.  This is the reason why we moved from my dads place and explains why he will NEVER accept Morph or feel "Safe" around him. 

It was 2 days before Masons third birthday he was out in the yard playing barefooted with alot of other kids from the neighborhood.  Sasha our bullmastiff that we had rescued about a year before was out side with the kids along with Oso our neighbors keeshound and AJ our keeshound.  The dogs were all given a rawhide bone each and were chewing on them.  Sasha brought hers inside and layed down on the couch with it when all of the adults came in to get some drinks.  While we were inside Mase came in limping and said that his foot hurt so I took him into the livingroom and sat him on the couch beside Sasha.  This was nothing new because they layed that way everyday while watching TV and I sat on the coffee table not a foot away from him.  I checked his foot and saw a bruise.  Smitty got up to open turn on a light and in a split second Sasha jumped up and grabbed Mason in the face.  I had to jump up and punch her in the head to force her to let go.  We put her outside and took Mason to the hospital.  He ended up with a torn saliva gland, cuts on his gums cause she went all the way through, and a total of 58 stitches to sew him up. 

Did I send her to the pound??  Walk outside with my gun and shoot her?? No !!!  Why you might ask?? Because that 2 year old little boy on the way home from the hospital with his face all swollen to where he could barely talk told me " Mommy.. Sasha isnt a bad dog..  she didnt mean too, it was an accident."  When we got home Sasha would not come into the house untill Mason called her.  He walked over to her and gave her a big hug around her neck and told her it was ok she didnt mean too.  We took her back to the rescue two days later and she now has a Great home with an older couple who has no kids or grandkids. 

Was this an unprovoked attack?? It truely may seem that way.  And that is what we though for the first day afterward.  But in hindsight here are the things that I did not tell you...  Sasha was laying on the couch with a rawhide bone.  AJ and Oso Were on opposite ends of the couch watching her eat her bone and us dealing with Mason.  Mason was crying and may have possibly put and elbow across her nose when he tried to sit up and get away from me. 

Knowing what I know now I could have changed one of the things listed above and maybe this would not have happened.  Do I hate bullmastiffs now because of what happened to my son??  No Am I more cautious around them? yes to a certain exent.  Am I a bad parent because this happned to my son??  I dont believe soo.  My father however will never accept Morph because he is a Matiff and he belives that all Mastiffs are the same.  My dad looks at Masons face and sees a vicious dog that attacked his grandon.  I look at Masons face and see a mistake that I made by not being aware of my surroundings and a wonderful dog that was forced out of our lives by that mistake.  I firmly belive that you can not judge the Breed you can only judge the actual dog.  And yes accidents do happen but sometimes as in my situation you have to look at what was going on in the BIG picture. 

This is just my personal experience and my views.  Please dont take offence to anything that I have said as it was not meant that way.  I agree with Jenn that I still love all dogs and always will.

Here is a pic of my beautiful girl Sasha.  She was a full blooded Long Haired red Bullmastiff.  Before we got her she was hit by a car and broke her jaw.  That is why her tongue hangs out of her mouth that way.

[KJUNMAMI]

Very true and hopefully one that was dangerous would give some kind of warning sign before you got close enough to pet it, but I don't know.  When hubby was walking Yukon the other night a little girl ran up to him and thew her arms around him hugging him, her parents apparently looked quite concerned but quickly realized he was harmless and just enjoying the love.

The only Pitbull I've seen in years was at the SPCA last time I took the pups in for their shots. It was a female and the lady said she was just a baby but she didn't resemble one that was too young. She wasn't large by any means but she was WIRED, like her front feet never touched the ground that's how crazy she was and choking herself the entire time. The old man with her kept hitting her with his cane telling her to behave and settle down. The lady that had ahold of the leash would not let her get anywhere near another dog or person. She said about a thousand times that she just wanted to play and doesn't realize her size and would 'hurt our puppies'. Meanwhile Yukon was much larger than her. I had to wonder if she just didn't trust the dog, just not sure...it was kinda strange.

Then I go home and read up on them a little and how they tend to be animal agressive when they aren't raised properly and will go for the throat of a dog...that is terrifying! Like how would the other dog even stand a chance? They are all jaws.

They do tend to be animal aggressive if not socialized. But if this was a puppy then it is very unlikely to have aggression yet. PBs are very energetic dogs. But just because they are very excitable does not mean they are trying to attack. If the owner of this dog does not trust it then they do not need to have it because they should know that puppies are not aggressive and you still have time to socialize it. PBs are the best at what you make them. Some stupid mean people teach them to be aggressive and they are the best. ANd then responsible pb owners socialize them and teach to be good loving dogs and then they are the best at that. Also from the sound of it the guy who was hittingher does not know how to train or control a dog. Yelling does no good, it must be a quick stern noise llike I use EH! Something to get their attention. Anyways, its really hard for me to talk about this over the enternet because I have so much I could say. I hope this helps you to see though. 

[KJUNMAMI]

This is just purely an honest question. Do you truly think there are just as many say, Golden Retriever attacks as there are Pitbull attacks and the media just never finds out or hides it from the public? Or do they just happen to be Pitbulls a lot of the time and people's fears of them grow worse thereby continuing to tarnish their reputation?

No there probably aren't as many golden retriever attacks as pitbulls. But you have to look at why, people that fight dogs and trsain them to be aggressive don't want goldens. They use dogs like pbs shepards and rotts. So there are more of them out there that were made to be mean. Now if Goldens were trained to fight and be aggressive like pbs then yes I believe there would be as many and possibly more than pbs. now from statistics there are more bites by shepards than pbs. And its not they are hiding other bites just that when the public hears Pitbull attack they go EEEKE!!! But they just shrug it off if its another breed. So there is the reason they don't worry about other attacks. The media just wants people to watch at anyone or things expense and they are going to give the public what they want. Also did you know pbs are in the top four on the temperment tests. Above breeds like cockers and others.

[KJUNMAMI]

mama23+pyrs2, I think we have been trying to answer your questions.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is a pretty hot button issue, so you are also going to hear some opinions that clash with yours.  I think this has been a very civilized discussion, and we encourage that on the forum.

If it sounded as I was calling you ignorant I want to apoligize. My goal is to educate people on the breed that I adore. I started this forum never thinking it would end up like this but I am glad it did, because if I feel I may have shown one person the other side of the story then i feel I helped make a difference. pbs can not speak for themselves so I have reserched and researched and still continue to so that I may speak for them by educating people about this breed. In reality this BSL is All dog owners against a lazy government. The more EVERYONE fights it the less likely your breed will be next.

I don't mind opinions that clash with mine, that is what this world is about. I accept them. I don't see my opinion anywhere near accepted but being bashed and told I am ignorant and prejudice. It's easy to sit on the other side of the fence when people agree with you, very easy.

If an effort was being made to educate me rather than criticize me, I do appreciate the effort. Maybe I missed it, I'm working with pg brain over here.

[FXgirl]

One of THE best websites EVER on pitbulls etc.  Education for those who know nothing about the dogs or for those who claim to know everything will learn a whole lot more... http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

I spent hours there.  Excellent site.