Author Topic: Spay and Neuter Question  (Read 9703 times)

mama23+pyrs2

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Spay and Neuter Question
« on: May 23, 2007, 10:48:34 pm »
I know this is a sensitive subject around here so I don't want to start a debate or anything with those that don't agree with it. For those of you that do and can offer advice, thank you in advance!

My question is when do you think it would be a good time to neuter Yukon? I was planning on doing it sometime between 5-7 months, next month he'll be 6 months. Females don't come into their first heat typically until a year old, is that correct? I don't want to take any chances and for other reasons would like it done earlier before I have to deal with any crazy male behaviors etc. Also, do you think it would be better if they had it done together (if they will do that) or seperately? I've never had a dog altered before, only cats so I don't know much about the recovery etc.

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 10:49:20 pm by mama2many »

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 11:21:04 pm »
For large and giant breeds it is recommended to wait until at least a year. There are plenty of posts where people discussed the pros and cons on neuturing early.

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,16639.0.html
http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,11593.0.html
http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,9884.0.html

I don't think it matters whether you do them separate or together. Although, if you do it together maybe they will be calm and rest more at the same time.

Yes, females *Pyrs" don't go in heat until 13-15 months of age.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 11:24:26 pm by People Whisperer »
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

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mama23+pyrs2

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 11:30:29 pm »
Okay, thanks a lot for the tips! I've never even heard of laser surgery for that, wow that's cool. I've read a lot about the pros and cons and could be willing to wait if I had just Yukon or just Yiska but seeing as I have both, I don't want any inbreeding going on. :o There's no way I could possibly keep them away from eachother either.

Yukon started doing the humping thing months ago but he hasn't done it since then, and besides him starting to enter the stubborn phase he's doing really well, but he's still pretty young.

Thanks again!

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 11:34:21 pm »
If you wait until at least 10 months no inbreeding will happen... just a nervous breakdown, LOL
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 11:37:10 pm »
There have been a number of threads on this topic that have outlined the issues to consider when deciding when to spay or neuter, so you might want to peruse some of those while you are deciding. 

In a nutshell, dogs altered very young (before 6 months) have decreased rates of several kinds of cancer, fewer hormone-related behavior problems, and no chance of unintended reproduction.  They also have delay in the closure of their growth plates, which in extreme cases could lead to orthopedic problems.  Dogs altered between 6 months and one year do not differ significantly from those altered later than one year. 

The problems associated with early spay and neuter generally relate to procedures conducted much earlier, and even then the incidence is low.  Although some breeders advocate waiting until the dog is a year old or even older, there is no evidence to confirm that such action is necessary.  There are pros and cons for spaying/neutering early and for waiting.  Ultimately, the decision should be made on an individual basis and considering all the pros and cons both ways.

As for your question about when females come into heat, it is not correct that they typically don't come into heat until they are a year old.  It depends on the breed and the individual dog.  Most come in the first time somewhere between 6 and 14 months.  Most giant breed dogs come into heat the first time after 8 months, but often before 1 year.  Every one of my danes that was not spayed early came into heat the first time between 8 and 10 months.

Great Pyrenees females typically don't come into heat until after 1 year of age
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007, 11:43:17 pm »
Yes, females *Pyrs" don't go in heat until 13-15 months of age.

Although that may be typical (I don't know the breed well enough to know), we have had a couple of pyrs on BPO that went into heat at 8 months, so I wouldn't count on that being the case.
Should we blame BPO? LOL (...full body condoms...you know what I am talking about)
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 11:48:59 pm »

Hmmm, you may be onto something. ;D  Perhaps membership on BPO should be added to the reasons you should get your dog spayed or neutered early!
[/quote]

LOL, definitely!!!
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


mama23+pyrs2

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2007, 12:44:38 am »
hahaha. thank god dogs don't take after their human parents or she would be in trouble. :o

Offline seaherons

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2007, 02:37:47 am »
The "when to spay" is a very sensitive topic for us in that we had Cirra spayed at 8 and one half months believing that it was the right thing to do from a health perspective.  After several inquires our vet did not acknowledge the cons to the early spay in giant breed dogs and we were not aware of all the cons until she had an ACL injury.  Knowing what we know now we would not have had her spayed until she was full grown or at all.  Every person and their dogs situtation is different and I encourage you to research the latest information available and make an informed decision.  I am not against spaying and neutering however I feel very strongly that people need to have accurate information regarding the pros and cons in order to make the best decisions we can for our dogs. 

Offline seaherons

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2007, 03:06:55 am »
Here is a a link to a recent article regarding the spay and neuter question.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

mama23+pyrs2

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2007, 06:09:08 am »
The "when to spay" is a very sensitive topic for us in that we had Cirra spayed at 8 and one half months believing that it was the right thing to do from a health perspective.  After several inquires our vet did not acknowledge the cons to the early spay in giant breed dogs and we were not aware of all the cons until she had an ACL injury.  Knowing what we know now we would not have had her spayed until she was full grown or at all.  Every person and their dogs situtation is different and I encourage you to research the latest information available and make an informed decision.  I am not against spaying and neutering however I feel very strongly that people need to have accurate information regarding the pros and cons in order to make the best decisions we can for our dogs. 

Full grown? That would be 2-3 years though and there is no possible way I could do that having a male and female together. Thank you for the link, I will read up! Thanks everyone for your information!

Offline seaherons

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 06:59:11 pm »
I debated posting the article for the reasons mentioned however decided to post it because it did provide pros and cons on the "when to spay/neuter" issue.  Food for thought.  I agree that any research or information provided needs to be reviewed for bias and accuracy.  It seems that the spay/neuter issue has become a political and financial issue which is not helpful to us or our dogs.  I am still angry at myself for trustung our vet and not researching the cons of early spaying in a giant breed.  It had been many years since having a dog spayed and I didn't realize that there were reasons to wait.  Although I wasn't comforatble having her spayed when we did my thinking was that if we are not going to breed her we might as well get it done before she is any larger.  Being a Pyr she is on lead or in a fenced area, is with us all the time and we don't have an intact male dog so I was not even thinking about her getting pregnant.  Of course, there are no guarantees regarding health either way since there are so many factors involved.  Cirra has taught us a lot in the last few years.  Learn something new everyday - I least I hope so. 

Offline patrick

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 08:39:08 pm »
The disadvantages of early spay neuter are just starting to come to light and is now generating a great deal of interest by veterinary research entities.  Although further studies need to be done the information coming out should not be discounted as some of these studies are showing alarming trends.  A recent European study has demonstrated a 50% increase in hip dysplasia associated with early spay-neuter, several studies have now shown a marked increase in ACL injuries and contrary to popular belief early spay neuter is now thought to be a driving force in many behavior problems- that study is very recent and maybe not yet verified by another study BUT it is reported by the leading center on the studies of behavior problems in canines (Univ of Penn) 

Years ago people poo-pooed the idea that nutrition was implicated in orthopedic problems and they were found to be wrong and I clearly remember Premarin being the wonder drug for menopause until everyone started dropping dead from breast cancer.  In humans early removal of the sex hormones is considered a catastrophic event with many long term medical problems- I wouldn't discount current studies at all  Although the %s reported may be off in the long run I do believe the final tally is going to show early spay neuter is not as benign as once thought.  An interesting site to visit is ACC-D.org for some info on the other side of the coin.

mama23+pyrs2

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 08:59:31 pm »
Even if it's not the healthiest thing to do and a lot of people don't believe in doing it before they are grown, what is someone in my position supposed to do? I don't have an option to wait, plain and simple. So all the studies and arguments, as valid as some may be, it's not like I can make the choice not to. I used to be under the impression *early* spay and neuter was very early, I know alot of people do it when they are brand new pups, even before leaving the breeder a lot of times. That seems a bit extreme to me but not when they are 6-7 months old or so. But I know it's still considered early to some.

Even so, it still stands that it needs to be done and will be done because I just don't have the choice. The dogs we have had, have always been altered and not at an older age and we never had problems with them fortunately, though they weren't giant breed. My mom never got around to neutering her last dog, a Cocker Spaniel and he was just never a happy dog. He had SOO much pent up energy, was just crazy hyper until he died. Some may have just been his personality but I don't know because I've never had an intact male dog besides.

All I know is someone has to get fixed here eventually, one or the other and after thinking about it more, I'd rather them do it together. The one thing that did concern me was all the talk about females becoming incontinent after being spayed- that would be awful. I haven't done enough reading about it to understand it yet.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 09:02:27 pm by mama2many »

Lyn

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Re: Spay and Neuter Question
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 09:20:23 pm »
I feel I should weigh in since Bubba and Lola are still intact and I too have male/female. They are not related but still, there is no way in h*ll that I want puppies.

That said I was h*ll bent on waiting until 2 to spay/neuter. I was confident that I could manage them. Then Lola went into heat 4 days after her first birthday. Bubba was suppose to have been neutered already but of course that didn't happen. *cough* hubby.

Anyway, At first things were managable, Bubba wasn't overly interested. Until Lola hit the 'fertile stage' then he went loopy, wouldn't eat and dropped 10 pounds. Keeping them seperate was oh so fun since Bubba was trying to eat through the rec-room door. Not to mention his howling. :( Lola's heat lasted 22 days from start to finish. Just long enough for me to go insane!

So let's just say my views on spay/neuter are not the same expecially if you have male and female. I still don't feel it should be done too early but 8-10 months is a good time I think. My sanity FAR outweighs the health risks. :D

Needless to say I'm not waiting until 2 to spay Lola. Her heat just finished the beginning of May, so she's going in around August to be spayed. She'll be 16 months old then. I'm pushing for hubby to let me neuter Bubba..  :-\ Either way he will be neutered even if I have to sneak him in while hubby's at work. LOL