I messed up and need advice!!

[Tazz]

Dutchess, my 2 and a half year old pyr is getting very aggressive. She and my 5 yo husky go in and out at will, they have a 2 acre fenced yard to romp in. Dutch is great away from the fence, greets other dogs nicely, great with the grandkids ect. If anybody, 2 or 4 legged, approaches the outside of the fence while they are out, she attacks the fence and/or the husky. I HAVE to nip this in the bud now as I do not want her to turn on the grandkids someday. I also do not want my husky getting hurt...we also have a three month old saint bernard who goes outside from time to time, but since she is still training we take her out on the leash mostly. She has not attempted to attack the SB.
I have had all the dogs since they were babies and have never had any problems with them. Dutch is spayed, the husky is neutered...pup py is not yet. We have cats and birds, Dutch is fine with all of them. I don't know what to do about this!! She scares me and I am now worried she will attack someone inside like she does while in the fence. Health issues have been ruled out. Any suggestions on what I can do to ensure she remains stable? More training perhaps? Maybe it is just me overreacting? Shehas never done this before and to be honest, it terrified me to see her like that. I would have never in a million years have ever seen her go after anything like that.

[bigdogs@5501]

We have been dealing with this behaviour with Bella. She is not alpha but sometimes will challenge for the alpha position. The Alpha Pyr always corrects the behaviour before I have to do anything. Sometimes Bella will go after one of the other dogs when she feels that they are encroaching on her space, especially when the husband is home - she has chosen him as her human. I would say to start with training. I have not had Bella attempt anything with any of the humans, but I do not have any small children in the home. Sounds like she is throwing her weight around as alpha dog- but I could be totally wrong. Also Bella has gone after the baby- who is now 7 mos old, but never really hurts him, Is Dutchess actually inflicting wounds on the Husky?

[Tazz]

Thanks. I guess I posted while I was still upset and reading it now, it seems out of sorts, lol.

Dutchess has never acted aggressive toward the grandkids, inside or outside the fence. What happened today was my daughter brought her new puppy down. She and I were up on the gazabo which is in sight of the fence. I had our Saint on her leash andmy daughter had her puppy on a leash. My daughter walked to the fence with her puppy so Meko (husky)could sniff him and Dutchess got in front of Meko as he was sniffing the puppy and attacked the fence, then turned and attacked Meko. No, she did not hurt him and it was over as quick as it started. My daughter and I realized Dutchess had done this one other time this week when my daughter had brought her sheltie mix down. The sheltie is a pup wehad taken in here and she spent two months with me before my daughter adopted her. Dakota and Ducthess got along well except for the one time Dakota  tried to eat Dutchess foodand Dutch "pinned" her for all of 2 seconds. Anyhow, my daughter brought Dakota down the other day and Dutchess did the same thing, attacking the fence, then Meko when Mekowas sniffing the pups through the fence. Outside of the fence, on the back porch, inside the house, in the open yard she is a princess and allows the other dogs close without any aggression or nipping and most times will engage in play with them.

I guess I feel like I messed up by not correcting her aggression earlier and now it may be to late? I don' know really, I just feel like this is somehow my fault or I must have allowed it to become this bad. I feel a bit better and more calmer now so I have a bit more positive attitude that this can be corrected. I just have to get a plan of action and follow through so I can learn to trust her again....and myself. Thanks again!

[Tazz]

No, I have never seen her do it without a dog...even with a stranger that approaches. If a stranger approaches the fence she looks to see where I am and if I am ok with that person, then she sits and waits until she feels comfortable enough, usually after Meko gets pet, before she will approach. On her leash, she is often the first to approach a stranger...or another dog, and it is always friendly. I have only seen her refuse to approach one person in her life and I did not push it at the time as she was growling deep in her throat. That was long ago and she has never done it again. To be honest I got bad vibes from that person as well. She will come back from the fence with another dog on the outside if we call her to come inside. I guess I am just confused as to the sudden intensity of her doing this. We live in an area where it is not commonplace for loose dogs, more wildlife than loose dogs. Our neighbors are good to the dogs and we don't have children that could have teased her from outside the fence. The grands are not allowed to tease the dogs at all, even at their young age(6 and 2&1/2)

[RMSChloe]

I have to say, i see this happen with our horses a lot. We have a wooden paddock that is split down the middle with another wooden fence, so its two paddocks joined together. Theres a gate in the middle that can be opened but its usually shut. ANYWAY, what will happen is that we will turn out two horses in one side that like each other a lot and get along. Horses have pack dynamics too and you will quickly see who is alpha. i will use our typical horses for this example we have Plan B who is a big black trotting mare and she quickly establishes herself as alpha. she gets turned out with Aquilastar whos a pacing gelding. now, we have another pacing mare whos name is Foxy Towner. If we put Plan B and Aquilastar together in one side of the paddock theyre fine... but put Foxy Towner on the other side and its a fight. Plan B has established she is the leader of her pack who is Aquilastar. If he and Foxy Towner sniff each other she will go balistic and attack Foxy Towner over the fence, then attack him. Shes basically trying to say, "Hey this is MY pack and I DONT want you in it!!!" and then when she gets aggressive with him shes saying "YOU belong to ME and i DONT want you by her!!" thats sort of what i see when you describe what you have on your hands. i might be wrong, but i just think its very similar, and its just an idea to put out there.

[GoldenPyrs]

My Pyrs will bark and guard the fence line, but if someone comes close they'll stand up and try to coax the person to reach over and pet them.     Like you with Dutchess, I've only seen any of my pyrs take an instant dislike to someone a time or two, ever (and in both cases I agreed with her assessment of the people, too).  Other than that, they've loved all of the people that they've met.  The fact that Dutchess likes everyone, is gentle with your grandkids and the puppy, and is very friendly to humans while on leash and through the fence, sounds great.  I agree with everyone that is just sounds to me like she's protecting her turf from other dogs, and that would be very, very normal for a livestock guardian breed.  I think that if it were me, I'd just concentrate on taking her out on leash for more experience meeting other dogs and I'd only correct her fence guarding behavior at home if she attacks your other dog(s) while riled up from scaring off the "intruder dogs".  Teaching her the "leave it" command would be a great help for that, I'd think.  Please post pics of your pups when you have a chance, I'd love to see them.

BTW, welcome to BPO!  I'm the mom of 3 human kids, 3 dogs including Daisy our Golden/Lab, Cassie our Pyr/? mix, and Sammy our Pyr.  We've been loved by Cara & Halley, our  Pyrs that are at the bridge now.

Modified to add:  I just mentioned this to my husband and he said that if your husky isn't barking or helping Dutchess scare off the "intruders", Dutchess may be acting out at him in irritation b/c she feels that he should be helping her.  Since this is such an ingrained behavior in a Pyr, she may not understand if he doesn't seemed to be concerned.  Just a thought....

[kathryn]

Let me preface this with saying I have no knowledge of pyrs at all.  But it sounds like she may be coming into her guarding instincts and that is turning to frustration based aggression to your husky.  She is defending her fence line but when the intruder doesn't back off like the wildlife does then she gets amped up even more and takes her frustration out on the nearest dog which is the husky.  I would think a trainer would be able to help you pull her out of her prey drive to correct this behavior.   

[Tazz]

Thanks again everybody. My daughter and I decided to see if we could pinpoint the issues Dutchess seemed to have. She brought her two dogs down, on leashes.Dakota, my daughters sheltie, lived with us for a few months until I got her healthy and has been here numerous times to visit since my daughter took her home. Duke, the lab x is new and is only 4 months old. As long as we stayed up at the gazabo area, Dutchess was fine. If my daughter brought either dog near the fenceline, Ducthess reacted as she did yesterday. However, when I brought the very same dogs near the fence there was no reaction at all except to jump up on the fence in a "welcome, lets play" attitude. We removed Meko, the husky, from the fence and tried again and this time there was no reaction from Dutchess except the "welcome lets play" when either of us walked the pups by the fence. We brought Ductch out on her leash and again it was "lets play" with no aggression at all. We kept Dutch on her leash and brought Meko outside, again no reaction at all when the pups and Meko played together. We put Meko and the pups inside the fence and kept Dutch on her leash with us at the gazabo so she could watch....nothi ng.I put her on a very long leash inside with Meko and the pups and she played for a long while without any aggression toward anybody. We removed the pups, took them back outside the fenceline while it was just Meko and Dutchess inside and again, aggression toward the pups (when my daughter had them) then Meko when he approached the fence to say hi.

So now I am totally confused. Is it a dominate issue with my daughter? Is it the pups? Is it Meko? Is it territorial? I feel like if I can pinpoint the "cause" I can find a solution. Thanks!

[2Criminals]

Perhaps she's guarding Meko??

[Tazz]

Perhaps she's guarding Meko??

Maybe? But wouldn't she do that outside the fence as well? LOL, leave it to us to have a dog with no clear "this is what it is and how you fix it". 

[patrick]

Not sure what her problem is other then guarding (a little entusiasticall y) her territory.  Our Pyrs will also charge the fence at dogs until I come outside and tell them it is company. This is their command that it is OK and they almost always instantly stop. They do bark and carry on even if its a dog that they know.  They also are very social around other dogs but dogs just can't come in uninvited.  I don't see it as a problem as they do stop when asked to

[Tazz]

You have a point. Maybe I am just over reacting? She does move away when I tell her to. I am just afraid if I don't do more than I am now, she will progressivly get worse. The last thing I ever want to do is a disservice to my pups by not correcting something that should have been corrected. On the other hand, I don't want to stiffle her natural instincts if this is the extent of it. She sounds horrid, but she is not actually hurting anybody and it is over very quickly.
Thanks again everybody. I think I am gonna take the wait and see approach on this. If she gets to the point of not coming away when called or acts aggressive outside the fence, I will call in a trainer.