Author Topic: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint? Update!  (Read 7136 times)

Lyn

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Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint? Update!
« on: August 02, 2007, 08:16:53 am »
My hubby's foreman has decided that he wants a Saint Bernard. Now this guy shouldn't own a pet rock, nevermind a dog of any breed.  >:(

He was beyond horrible with Bubba and Lola and they both hate him. He raises his hand and pretends he going to hit them. He barks and growls at them. He said that if they drool on him he's going to beat the living 'bleep' out of them. He's not allowed in my house. PERIOD!

He told my hubby tonight how his wife found this breeder that has Saint pups and that he was going to go look at them this weekend. :(

I KNOW if he brings one home he's going to totally abuse and ruin the poor thing and probably drop it off on my doorstep once he's fed up with it. :'( My hubby is doing the best he can to try and talk him out of it but I'm totally freaking out here. :'(
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 07:24:40 pm by Lyn »

Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 08:34:16 am »
Good point.. I'll tell hubby to tell him that I'm interested in getting a pup or something and ask for the number.

Also from what I gather it was an ad in the newspaper. Possibly a backyard breeder. Although I'm hoping that's not the case considering the cost of the pup is $1300. The byb's seem to be in the $500-$800 range here.

Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 07:02:42 pm »
Currently they are working up north.. They won't be home until tomorrow. So hubby has been 'working' on him since last night.

These are the things I had hubby 'complain' about. ;)

- Hair everywhere.
- Drool everywhere.
- How much the bills were for Bubba and Lola at the vet.
- The cost of ongoing obedience training.
- Food bills.
- The fact that they both took 6 months to completely housetrain and that their accidents are equivalent to a small lake.
- The adolescent butthead bull in a china shop stage.
- House trashing zoomies.
- Possible health issues.

Those are the ones that came to mind. I'm sure my hubby will elaborate more on those and then some. LOL

I'm also going to print this off and give it to him....

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD

This article has been adapted from: DON'T BUY A BOUVIER! by Pam Green (c.1992)(This article, written many years ago, has become a notorious classic in Bouvier circles. It has been reprinted many times by clubs to use for the education of prospective Bouvier owners. She gives her permission freely to all who wish to reprint and distribute it in hopes of saving innocent dogs from neglect and abandonment by those who should never have acquired them in the first place).

Interested in buying a Saint? You must be or you wouldn't be reading this. You've already heard how marvelous Saints are. Well, I think you should also hear, before it's too late, that SAINT BERNARDS ARE NOT THE PERFECT BREED FOR EVERYONE. As a breed , they have a few characteristic s that some people find charming, but that some people find mildly unpleasant, and some people find downright intolerable.

There are different breeds for different needs. There are over 200 breeds of dogs in the world. Maybe you would be better off with goldfish, a parakeet, a hamster, or some house-plants.   

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO THE BREED *CHIEFLY* BY IT'S APPEARANCE
 
The appearance of the Saint Bernard you have seen in the show ring is the product of many hours of bathing and grooming. This carefully constructed beauty is fleeting: a few minutes of freedom, romping through the fields or strolling in the rain restores the natural look. The natural look of the Saint is that of a large, shaggy farm dog, usually with some dirt and weeds clinging to his tousled coat. The true beauty of the Saint lies in his character, not in his appearance. Some of the long-coated and most of the short-coated breeds' appearances are less dependent on grooming than is that of especially the long-haired Saint. 


DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO SHARE YOUR HOUSE AND YOUR LIFE WITH YOUR DOG.
 
Saints were bred to share in the work of their master (they are service dogs, used for saving lives, hiking, pulling carts, etc.) and to spend most of their waking hours working with their master. They thrive on companionship and they want to be wherever you are. They are happiest living with you in your house and going with you when you go out. While they usually tolerate being left at home by themselves (preferably with a dog-door giving access to the fenced yard), they should not be relegated to the backyard or kennel. A puppy exiled from the house is likely to grow up to be unsociable, unruly, and unhappy. He may well develop pastimes, such as digging or barking, that will displease you and/or your neighbors. An adult so exiled will be miserable too. If you don't strongly prefer to have your dog's companionship as much as possible, enjoying having him sleep in your bedroom at night and sharing many of your activities by day, you should choose a breed less oriented to human companionship. Likewise if your job or other obligations prevent your from spending much time with your dog. No dog is really happy without companionship, but the pack hounds for example, are more tolerant of being kenneled or yarded so long as it is in groups of 2 or more. A better choice would be a cat, as they are solitary by nature. 


DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU DON'T INTEND TO EDUCATE (TRAIN) YOUR DOG.
 
Basic obedience and household rules training is NOT optional for the Saint. As an absolute minimum, you must teach him to reliably respond to commands to come, to lie down, to stay, and to walk at your side, or on or off a leash and regardless of temptations. You must also teach him to respect your household rules: e.g. is he allowed to get on the furniture? Is he allowed to beg at the table? What you allow or forbid is unimportant, but it is *critical* that you, not the dog, make these choices and that you enforce your rules consistently. You must commit yourself to attending an 8 to 10 weeks series of weekly lessons at a local obedience club or with a professional trainer, and to doing one or two short (5 to 20 minutes) homework sessions per day. As commands are learned, they must be integrated into your daily life by being used whenever appropriate, and enforced consistently. Young Saint puppies are relatively easy to train: they are eager to please, intelligent, and calm-natured, with a relatively good attention span. Once a Saint has learned something, he tends to retain it well. Your cute, sweet little Saint puppy will grow up to be a large, powerful dog. If he has grown up respecting you and your rules, then all his physical and mental strength will work for you. But if he has grown up without rules and guidance from you, surely he will make his own rules, and his physical and mental powers will often act in opposition to your needs and desires. For example: he may tow you down the street as if competiting in a sled-dog race; he may grab food off the table; he may forbid your guests entry to "his" home. This training cannot be delegated to someone else, e.g. by sending the dog away to "boarding school," because the relationship of respect and obedience is personal between the dog and the individual who does the training. While you definitely want the help of an experienced trainer to teach you how to train your dog, you yourself must actually train your Saint. As each lesson is well learned, then the rest of the household (except young children) must also work with the dog, insisting he obey them as well. Many of the Saints that are rescued from Pounds and Shelters show clearly that they have received little or no basic training, neither in obedience nor in household deportment; yet these same dogs respond well to such training by the rescuer or the adopter. It seems likely that a failure to train the dog is a significant cause of Saint abandonment. If you don't intend to educate your dog, preferably during puppy hood, you would be better off with a breed that is both small and socially submissive. 

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU LACK LEADERSHIP (SELF-ASSERTIVE) PERSONALITY.

Dogs do not believe in social equality. They live in a social hierarchy led by a pack-leader (Alpha). The alpha dog is generally benevolent, affectionate, and non-bullying towards his subordinates; but there is never any doubt in his mind or in theirs that the alpha is the boss and makes the rules. Whatever the breed, if you do not assume the leadership, the dog will do so sooner or later and with more or less unpleasant consequences for the abdicating owner. Like the untrained dog, the pack-leader dog makes his own rules and enforces them against other members of the household by means of a dominant physical posture and a hard-eyed stare, followed by a snarl, then a knockdown blow or a bite. Breeds differ in tendencies towards social dominance; and individuals within a breed differ considerably. You do not have to have the personality or mannerisms of a Marine boot camp Sergeant, but you do have to have the calm, quiet self-assurance and self-assertion of the successful parent ("Because I'm your mother, that's why.") or successful grade-school teacher. If you think you might have difficulty asserting yourself calmly and confidently to exercise leadership, then choose a breed known for its socially subordinate disposition, such as a Golden Retriever or a Shetland Sheepdog, AND be sure to ask the breeder to select one of the more submissive pups in the litter for you. If the whole idea of "being the boss" frightens or repels you, don't get a dog at all. Cats don't expect leadership. A caged bird or hamster, or fish doesn't need leadership or household rules.
Leadership and training are inextricably intertwined: leadership personality enables you to train your dog, and being trained by you reinforces your dog's perception of you as the alpha.


DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU DON'T VALUE LAID-BACK COMPANIONSHIP AND CALM AFFECTION.
 
A Saint becomes deeply attached and devoted to his own family, but he doesn't "wear his heart on his sleeve." Some are noticeably reserved, others are more outgoing, but few adults are usually exuberantly demonstrative of their affections. They like to be near you, usually in the same room, preferably on a comfortable pad or cushion in a corner or under a table, just "keeping you company." They enjoy conversation, petting and cuddling when you offer it, but they are moderate and not overbearing in coming to you to demand much attention. They are emotionally sensitive to their favorite people: when you are joyful, proud, angry, or grief-stricken, your Saint will immediately perceive it and will believe himself to be the cause. The relationship can be one of the great mellows, depth and subtlety; it is a relation on an adult-to-adult level, although certainly not one devoid of playfulness. As puppies, of course, they will be more dependent, more playful, and more demonstrative. In summary, Saints tend to be sober, noble and thoughtful rather than giddy clowns or sycophants.
DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU ARE FASTIDIOUS ABOUT YOUR HOME
The Saint Bernard's thick shaggy coat (long-haired variety) and his love of playing in water and mud combine to make him a highly efficient transporter of dirt into your home, depositing same on your floors and rugs and possibly also on your furniture and clothes. One Saint coming in from a few minutes outdoors on a rainy day can turn an immaculate house into an instant hog wallow. His full chest soaks up water every time he takes a drink, then releases same drippingly across your floor or soppingly into your lap. Saint Bernards are seasonal shedders, and in spring can easily fill a trash bag with balls of hair from one grooming session, or clog a vacuum cleaner if left to shed in the house. I don't mean to imply that you must be a slob or slattern to live happily with a Saint, but you do have to have the attitude that your dog's company means more to you than does neatness, and you do have to be comfortable with a less than immaculate house.
While all dogs, like children, create a greater or lesser degree of household mess, almost all other breeds of dog are less troublesome than the Saint in this respect. The Basenji is perhaps the cleanest, due to its cat-like habits; but cats are cleaner yet, and goldfish hardly ever mess up the house.

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU FIND DROOL TOTALLY REPELLANT.

Most Saint owners begin with some degree of distaste for drool, but as this is an integral part of the Saint, this dislike usually progresses to some level of nonchalance. A sure sign of a Saint addict is that not only do they not understand other people's squeamishness for this substance, they spend many hours trying to come up with useful purposes for the gallons of drool that can be produced on a regular basis. Some say that the world record "drool toss" from an adult Saint is over 20 feet! This makes your walls and ceilings well within reach of even an average drooler. Saint's drool because of their jaw and mouth structure, which allows them to breath while performing tasks, this is a quality inherent in the breed.
If you cannot get used to the idea of drool in your house, then try one of the many breeds of dogs that do not drool. Saints are definitely not in this category. Although I have heard of cats who drool, the quantity is not remotely comparable, and hamsters don't drool at all.

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU DISLIKE DOING REGULAR GROOMING

The thick shaggy long-haired Saint Bernard coat demands regular grooming, not merely to look tolerable nice, but also to preserve the health of the skin underneath and to detect and remove foxtails, ticks, and other dangerous invaders. For pet grooming you should expect to spend 10-15 minutes a day.
Almost every Saint that is rescued out of a Pound or Shelter shows the effects of many months of no grooming, resulting in massive matting and horrendous filthiness.
Many other breeds of dog require less grooming; the short slick coated breeds require very little.

DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU DISLIKE DAILY EXERCISE.

Saints need exercise to maintain the health of heart and lungs, and to maintain muscle tone. Because of his mellow, laid-back, often lazy, disposition, your Saint will not give himself enough exercise unless you accompany him or play with him.

DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU BELIEVE THAT DOGS SHOULD RUN "FREE"

Whether you live in town or country, no dog can safely be left to run "free" outside your fenced property and without your direct supervision and control. The price of such "freedom" is inevitably injury or death: from dogfights, from automobiles, from the Pound or from justifiably irate neighbors. If you don't want the responsibility of confining and supervising your pet, then no breed of dog is suitable for you.

DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY, FEED, AND PROVIDE HEALTHCARE FOR ONE.

Saints are not a cheap breed to buy, as running a careful breeding program with due regard for temperament, trainability, and physical soundness (hips especially) cannot be done cheaply. The time the breeder should put into each puppy's pre-school and socialization is also costly. The bargain puppy from a back yard breeder who unselectively mates any two Saints who happen to be of opposite sex may well prove to be extremely costly in terms of bad temperament, bad health, and lack of essential socialization.

DON'T BUY A SAINT IF YOU WANT THE "LATEST, GREATEST FEROCIOUS KILLER ATTACK DOG."

The Saint's famous disposition as the "Noble Gentle Giant" is not a fable, a Saint with the typical disposition of the breed would prefer to slobber a criminal than attack one. Also because of selective breeding for rescue, Saints are very laid back.

DON'T BUY A SAINT BERNARD IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO COMMIT YOURSELF FOR THE DOG'S ENTIRE LIFETIME.

No dog deserves to be cast out because his owners want to move to a no pet apartment, or because he is no longer a cute puppy, or didn't grow up to be a beauty contest winner, or because his owners through lack of leadership and training have allowed him to become an unruly juvenile delinquent with a repertoire of undesirable behaviors. The life span of a Saint is about 10 years. If that seems too long a time for you to give an unequivocal loyalty to your Saint, then please do not get one! Indeed, as most dogs have a life expectancy that is as long or longer, please do not get any dog.

Offline Edwpang

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 08:58:17 pm »
I am not sure, but if only stressing not to buy a saint, he might end up getting another breed.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 09:27:05 pm by Edwpang »

Offline Krystal_00

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 09:25:22 pm »
Dont forget that:

If you have a saint, you will never have clean clothes again. This is not a lie, seriously, never again.

No matter how much you mop or sweep or clean there will always ALWAYS be hair and drool in your house. Whats that you say? Outside dog? Well, do that and you will end up with a bored dog. And a bored Saint is a diggin Saint....and man can they dig!

Hip problems are prevalent in the breed. My vets estimate to fix Mack's hips...6 grand PER SIDE.

They think its funny to run and jump in the house....holes in the walls and ripped up floors are testaments to how fun it really is. their motto is "if nothing gets broken, then it wasnt any fun!"

House Training SUCKS. Stubborn stubborn STUBBRON!!!!  You might as well have a t-Rex come and take a dump on your floor, cause that's what its like. There's only one thing I can say about cleaning up after a saint..."two-hander"




I hope he doesnt get one!! I know people see us walking our *cough*well behaved*cough* :D saints down the street.....but they have no idea the time, effort, work,money,sleepless nights that goes into it.  I haven't slept the whole night through in a week because of puppy....and i expect not to sleep for quite come time!! ah saints, aint they great? :)
When the last fish has been caught and the last tree has been cut down...Only then will man realize that he cannot eat money.

Offline Newly Newfed

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 12:44:18 am »
ah saints, aint they great? :)

Yes.  And we darn well know it.   ;D

I agree this guy should not own any animal.  Anyone who thinks it's funny to feign hitting a dog is a moron.  I would go with the idea of contacting the breeder and asking they keep it anonymous.  As hubby's foreman, I would be worried he would take it out on my hubby if he felt you were interfering...  And that way when you don't come home with another Saint you can "complain" that they didn't sell toy you either.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 12:46:25 am by Newly Newfed »
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bigdogs@5501

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 03:07:19 am »
OMG, where were you before I brought Amelia into the house with all of this helpful information. She is all of that and a bit more. How funny. I can attest to the drool, I have never in my life seen so much drool and unfortunately there have been a few days that I didnt notice that I was personally wearing it until I had already got to my desk at work. The more prissy co-workers just give me that look and take a wide path around me- charming of them, if I do say so myself. Amelia also decided that she had been outside too long last week (she had only been out about 2 minutes) so she just barreled thru the storm door. I was in shock, to say the least. Amelia is not for the faint or prissy at heart. She is a big drool making love bug and if you say her name she starts wagging from head to tail before she head butts you for a kiss. She also likes to chew. And can tear up a shoe or a book quick. There has been more than once that I had to de-attach something from the bottom lip that got stuck in the drool that had not yet been slung onto the wall. Give this idiot my phone number- he sounds like a total moron. I will pay for him to start out with a gold fish and a pretty little bowl.

Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 03:23:46 am »
Well.. thanks guys but nothing made so much of a dent. :'( Hubby said he is determined and he's not changing his mind. :'( I don't know what else to do. I tried to call the number he gave me but it was the wrong number. So I think he knows exactly what I was going to do. :-\

I feel so sorry the poor puppy he picks. :'(




Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 03:29:34 am »
Oh just to add, he and his wife live in a small 2 bedroom apartment with 4 kids and one on the way any day now. He works all week and some weekends. How the heck they plan on training, walking and caring for a new puppy with a new baby and 4 ill behaved children is beyond me.

AHHH..

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 03:35:37 am »
Lyn, you should ask the guy if you can come and visit with your pup at his apartment. That way he will see how huge the dog will be for such a small place and make sure you don't brush your pup for a while before going there so the hair and drool will be all over the place. It might change his mind!
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Offline Krystal_00

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 08:55:38 am »
a 2 bedroom apartment is not big enough for the size of family hes got, let alone a giant breed puppy. So whos planning on taking this puppy out for pee breaks? Oh and dont forget the daily walk an apartment bound saint needs.
And when I say needs....I mean NEEDS. Mack and I lived in a basement suite first, and then a 2nd story apartment after. Lucky for my I dont have kids, or a job...because taking care of a Saint in an apartment is like a full time job. You have to be there when ever they have to go potty plus out for lots of walk and play time or they will ruin your place. Our apartment was super small (one bedroom) plus a little kitchen/living room and a tiny bathroom off to the side, so not much room at all. Mack did well, but let me tell you if he didnt get his walk or his playtime, there was friggin h*ll to pay!!
When the last fish has been caught and the last tree has been cut down...Only then will man realize that he cannot eat money.

Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 07:26:13 pm »
They are apparently looking for a house to rent, but most of the landlords are wanting a large damage deposit since his oldest son (7 years old) is very destructive. As for pee breaks. I don't know how the heck the wife is going to take the pup out to pee and juggle the kids when he's not home? Believe me.. I've brought that up many times.

Holly, The only way I could take Bubba there is if that guy is not there. Bubba litterally hates him with a passion and Bubba has never hated anyone, ever before and Lola bares her teeth and growls at him. Yeah lovely I know. :( With the way they both act towards him you'd think that would deter him.. nope.

I've had migranes every single day since hubby told me about him wanting to look at those pups.

Offline Duramax

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2007, 08:21:03 am »
Lyn, you should ask the guy if you can come and visit with your pup at his apartment. That way he will see how huge the dog will be for such a small place and make sure you don't brush your pup for a while before going there so the hair and drool will be all over the place. It might change his mind!
i think that is a GREAT idea!!
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Lyn

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 06:15:06 pm »
He didn't get a pup! He didn't get a pup! ;D ;D

I gave him a list of everything that was mentioned. So it must have eventually sink in. He just said they changed their minds. Whether that was him or his wife I don't know. Or.. maybe the breeder turned him down? I never did find the one he was talking with.

Thanks Liz for trying to help me find the breeder.

Now I'm just hoping that he changed his mind for good. *crosses fingers and knocks on wood* LOL

Edited because I can't spell. lol
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 07:17:52 pm by Lyn »

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Help! How do I stop this guy from getting a Saint? Update!
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 07:33:18 pm »
YAY!!! He changed his mind because all the people from BPO sent him really "saint negative vibes"! It worked!!!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 08:39:10 pm by People Whisperer »
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I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)