He Bit Me!!! Really Long

[patrick]

I don't crate not because I disagree with but because I am often gone for 12 hours at a time- too long to be in a crate.  However when I show the dogs LOVE their crate cause it is always a pleasant experience for them.  At home I close doors and use gates to keep rooms safe and the dogs get the kitchen dining and living room  I use bitter apple for anything they might be inclined to chew on.  Really destructive puppies are kept in a 10 x 18 room with wire gates and sides that they can see out of and of course LOTS and LOTS of chewies and toys- they also love going to their room. 

[angel101798]

I am so sorry you experieced that with Otis.   Everyone has given you some great advice.  There were just a couple of things I wanted to add.  You stated this wasn't the first time you grabbed his collar.  In dog terms, grabbing their collar is like someone grabbing the front of your shirt and shaking you.  It's thier natural instinct to fight that sensation.  Luring with treats and making the bathroom more comfortable for Otis is a great idea. 

The only other thing I wanted to address are your emotions.  Everyone is right, you need to stay calm and in control - a lot easier said than done!  Facing a dog, especially your own baby, with his teeth bared is not an easy situation to be in.  Take a deep breath and face him as if you were facing one of your kids, no nonsense.  Dogs pick up on body language and voice changes much more quickly and accurately that we silly humans.  By standing up straight (never lean over your dog when he's upset, they see that as a form of aggression) and speaking firmly and calmly you portray yourself as in control, even if your heart is ready to beat right out of your chest.  Keeping him on a leash, may make this easier for both of you.  With practice it gets much easier, trust me.  I strongly suggest you take Holly's suggestion earlier and talk to your vet.  Good Luck!   Sorry this was so long.

[Saint Pyr]

OK, I am back.  It has been a real roller coaster.  I will try and cover everyone’s concerns here.

Otis is better but I still have problems with him (but will get into that later).  I got a cone for him as he was really irritating the site.  The incision was bleeding alittle the next morning but I think he got his cone stuck on it.  He did look quite gunky around his testicles and I thought that we would need antibiotics, but I have used polysporin on it for 24 hours and it looks good and is dried up.  The whole area is not as red and is looking better.

As for pain meds, I wasn’t given any from the vet.  We live in a really small town 2 + hours away from any large center so that means that the vet is here once a month, and he is gone now, so no chance of that.  I have been giving Otis an aspirin morning and night but that is that.  I am winging it with the help of friends. 

Our bathroom is I guess his crate.  It has his bed in it, his chew toys, etc. He has been in it since we got him at 3 months and he has always gone in willing.  I just say “bedtime” and he is in there.  Now he is bigger, he only sleeps in there if the weather is really bad, and that is only if he wants in.  Once he gets out of the destructive stage he won’t need to sleep in the bathroom on the odd times he is in at night.  He much prefers being outside at night.

We have stopped grabbing his collar at all except for attaching the leash to it to go outside.  Hopefully this will help.  I like the idea of a tab collar so will look into that.  I really don’t like the thought of giving him treats to lure him to do something as I can see him deciding never to do anything again without a treat.  His mind is just always working.  I always give lots of praise and love when he does something I ask.  One belly rub and he is in heaven.

So my new problem now is that when I take him outside he will be good for awhile and then starts fighting the cone and leash.  He knows I have the other end of the leash so he starts jumping at me and trying to nip my hands.  I am now covered from shoulder to toes with scratch marks and bruises from his claws and cone.  I have a really impressive crescent shaped bruise on my thigh from him ramming his cone into me.  I don’t know what to do!!! 

When he does it I yell NO and BAD very sternly while I am fending him off with my other arm so he doesn’t scratch my face.  I try to shorten the leash, but when I do get the leash shorter he rolls and starts grabbing for my hands and fighting with his legs, then gets up and jumps and bites at me again.  It is like he is out of control.  It really is hard getting him under control when he is throwing his full 98 lbs at you!!

The first couple times he did it I was scared but now I am just plain ticked, as it happens every time we got out.  I know he isn’t trying to hurt me, he is just pissed at the situation, and what he is doing is similar to what he and our Saint, Slugger do when they are play fighting but it is not acceptable.  I am really thinking he is the puppy from h*ll.

[Duramax]

it sounds like he's totaly throwing a fit! next time you're outside with him, and he starts to throw this fit nonsense, just turn around and ignore him, dont give him any reaction at all this time just hold onto the leash and keep your back to him... kinda hard to throw a fit when no body's watching hahaha.

if he tries to run around you turn so the leash doesnt wrap around you and your back is still to him. good luck.

[Saint Pyr]

it sounds like he's totaly throwing a fit! next time you're outside with him, and he starts to throw this fit nonsense, just turn around and ignore him, dont give him any reaction at all this time just hold onto the leash and keep your back to him... kinda hard to throw a fit when no body's watching hahaha.

if he tries to run around you turn so the leash doesnt wrap around you and your back is still to him. good luck.

Oh I totally agree with what you are saying, worked great with my kids when they were young  , but unfortunately Otis will still do it.  He throws his full weight to knock you off balence as he is jumping at you.  I have tried that, tried ignoring him and tried walking away but he blindsides you  .

[mama23+pyrs2]

Wow was a stinker Otis is!! I really feel for you dealing with a dog his size at his age. Yukon is huge and doesn't weigh anywhere near what Otis weighs and I just cannot imagine if he acted that way at the size he is!! Has he been mouthy all this time, or is it new? My pups stopped being mouthy so many months ago, they are really better than I ever expected puppies to be- I've been blessed I think. They also don't jump as I broke them of that early on..Yiska will try once in awhile..when she is being playful and only outside- it seems to get her going or something but if she tries, we knock her down and that's the end of that. My big concern about having big dogs was the jumping issue, so we curbed that with kneeing them in the chest if they jumped and saying 'OFF', worked like a charm. Might sound brutal, but we didn't hurt them- they just didn't like it, so they stopped trying, and I'm sure thankful now! I remember when I went to pick them up and met my breeder, we went into the gate where she kept her 3 adults and before we went in there were jumping and lunging, barking and plain freaking out because she had a Dane also as we walked up there. I was very apprehensive about going in there with 3 of these huge dogs acting vicious but they were as good as gold as soon we we were around them, I totally expected to be jumped on and clobbered lol. Anyway, that's what she told me she did to teach them to not jump.

I'm sure Otis is just going through a phase, but wow..what a phase. I hope mine don't turn into that in another month! lol

[bigdogs@5501]

I dont really think that he is the dog from h*ll. He is a Pyrenees and a male Pyrenees. And since he was just neutered,his hormones have not eased up.
Male Pyrenees are not for the faint of heart. They are hard headed and stubborn, but can be intensly loyal.
Otis is also picking up on your emotions, they sense when you are mad, upset or scared.
This guy is suppose to be your friend and your companion and he will be both once you get past this issue. I have gone thru a very similiar situation with Tank who has since passed away. At first I was shocked and angry with his behaviour, but once I got past that, then we worked on training, and treats are a huge part of training.

So tomorrow is a new day. You are the boss. You are not mad and you are not scared. You are not going to let him overwhelm you. Find what ever works to keep him from jumping on you, wether it is the water bottle, turning your back or the lemon juice. These guys are extremely intelligent and he is going to learn quick. Do not strike him or raise your voice. Please understand, he is in an uncomfortable situation with the cone and his routine has now been changed. Also dont forget, ear rubs and kisses. Pyrs do respond to affection, they may not show it like other dogs, but affection is extremely important to them. Keep us updated, he sounds like he is a wonderful dog.

[mama23+pyrs2]

I defintely agree with affection and praise! It's magical, the effect it has on mine. Mine would take rubs and hugs and kisses and ANY sort of touch at all over a treat any day. They completely change their mood like a light switch when I turn on the praise or love on them...it's like they live for it.

I hope he feels better soon, going through the surgery and what not. I haven't yet fixed Yukon.. but I hope it goes smoothly when I do.

[schelmischekitty]

i wanted to ask about when he rams you with his cone.  is he smelling around before he does it and is it only when he's outside?  could it be out of frustration that he can't get his head low enough to find THAT spot or even just to smell around?  maybe you could try removing the cone (as long as he doesn't both his stitches) when he has to potty or when he's outside.  it sounds like he's getting frustrated with the cone.  maybe he needs a break from it every so often, as long as you can watch to make sure he's not irritating it...  i have to admit i'd try ANYthing (even rubbing it off on someone!) to get a cone off if i couldn't even scratch my shoulder when it's my "missing parts" that there was something wrong with.

[marypyrs]

This is the third time I've attemped to post this so I hope it goes through. First of all. I can understand that you are frustrated. And angry. And perhaps a bit afraid of what's happening. Please sit back. Take a DEEP breath. Then another one.  OK?

Congratulation s. You have a Pyr. You have a treasure in my mind. I love all dogs. Big. Small. Long haired. Short haired. Or hairless. I love them all. But I have a passion for Pyrs. To me these are the most wonderful and marvelous beings ever. But that's just me. However. You have taken on the responsiblily of being Otis's Care Taker. These dogs are like none other. They are strong willed. Independent. Stuborn. And in most cases they know far more than their Human counterpart. They are thousands of years old. They were born and bred to think for themselves. And to survive on there own. And to take care of their "flock".

Rule # 1. You NEVER hurt your Pyr. You NEVER kick, hit, or in anyway abuse your Pyr. If you do. It will backfire on you. What you do, is gain his respect as the leader of his pack. Respect is the most important thing to remember. These guys are seldom food motivated. Praise is usually the best reward you can give. You calmly - I repeat calmly - guide him through his puppyhood. You never need to raise your voice. Lowering your voice will suffice.

You have a beautiful Pyr Boy there. I know you love him very much. And the two of you will get through this rather rough time. Please don't think that I'm being critical of you. I just really want to help.

I had tried to add some links but maybe that's why my posts haven't gone through. So just Google these for some great information that would take me too many pages to type out. Just remember these most important words. Love. And mutual respect.

Good Luck!  And good thoughts.

Google the following. bluesteelgreat pyrenees
regaliagreatpy renees
and  GPCA
There's some wonderful info on training these Bears that I think you will like.

HUGS!
Jane

[patrick]

Another thing to keep uppermost in mind is that you should be asking "WHAT AM I DOING THAT IS MAKING HIM BEHAVE THIS WAY?"  instead of automatically assuming the dog is wrong. He may be wrong but he is reacting to your behavior so what are YOU doing that is bringing this out?  Makes a world of difference in how you approach problems.  Instead of saying he just won't stop jumping on me -fix it! He obviously doesn't understand this is not acceptable.  I don't think he is belligerant or having a fit - this is behavior you have let him get away with for a long time- so it is not wrong in his  mind.  Several people has suggested squirt bottles, lemon juice etc. These work and it usually only takes a few times BUT then you need to reward his good behavior as well so he learns what exactly it is that you want.  I agree Pyrs thrive on praise and I have 9 and NEVER had to use physical means to control or discipline.  On rare occasion I have used a squirt bottle- my most severe discipline!

[seaherons]

Living with a strong willed Pyr can certainly be a challenge.   If you are still using the cone and it is bothersome - you may try a Bite Not Collar.  http://www.bitenot.com/  We have never had the need to use one however have heard success stories with dogs using them.  A few suggsetions regarding training that may be helpful...Have you tried using a clicker?  We didn't start out using a clicker however Cirra has responded very well.  It is a great way to train and have fun with your dog.  Remember that dogs do what works for them not because they want to please you.  Behaviors that are rewarded continue and behaviors that are not decrease.  Basic and simple however it is a reality.  Set yourself and your dog up for being successful and build on that.  There is a lot of information available regarding positive training.  I imagine that the surgery and medications have been contributing factors.  Positive reinforcement really does work best. 

[Duramax]

OK as for the debate about the treats i have 2 count em' 2 solutions!

1: do give him treats whether it's seen as a bribe or not, but at the same time he is recieving the treat he must also be recieving 'TONS AND TONS OF HUGE HAPPY PRAISE' i mean the biggest bestest dog in the world praise! like way over board. this way the praise and affection will be linked subconciously to the treat. and when you decide to no longet use treats continue with the huge big deal praise. it's been prooven that dogs will still be just as excited to recieve the praise since it has been such a greatly positive thing in the past. it was also reported that the dogs salivary glands kicked in while being praised. so that prooves it.

2: measure out his food for the day and carry a portion of it around and constantly give him pieces through out the day as a reward for all kinds of different things, whether they be big or small. of course always accompany a treat with a big happy praise!

[London_Pyr_Lover]

2: measure out his food for the day and carry a portion of it around and constantly give him pieces through out the day as a reward for all kinds of different things, whether they be big or small. of course always accompany a treat with a big happy praise!

I really like that suggestion.  I will definitely use it with Naja.
I can't really add anything to the debate here.  I just want to say that I hope things with Otis get better really soon, and that you have Naja and I in your corner rooting for you.  Hope everything goes back to normal soon.

[Duramax]

2: measure out his food for the day and carry a portion of it around and constantly give him pieces through out the day as a reward for all kinds of different things, whether they be big or small. of course always accompany a treat with a big happy praise!

I really like that suggestion.  I will definitely use it with Naja.
I can't really add anything to the debate here.  I just want to say that I hope things with Otis get better really soon, and that you have Naja and I in your corner rooting for you.  Hope everything goes back to normal soon.

it's also good for puppers like Max who's stomach doesnt tolerate extra things added to the diet very well