Author Topic: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG  (Read 5612 times)

Offline People Whisperer

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Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« on: September 06, 2007, 12:07:59 am »
So, it has been a month since Lily finished a month of antibiotics to fight Lymes. I took her to the vet to do a blood work to make sure she is healthy (the vet told to come back in a month). The vet didn't check the file and ran wrong test "SNAP". They took Lily back and ran another test "C6" which is more accurate and it take a couple of days to get results.

I got a phone call from my Vet saying that Lily antibodies are a little higher than normal and she has to be on antibiotics for another month and do another test 5 months after ($150)! I was shocked...know ing that Lily didn't even had a single sign of sickness.

I got online and did research on those "C6" + "SNAP" tests and found out that it takes a long time for antibodies to go down after the treatment (6 or more months). The normal count is 30 and Lily tested 48.

I called the vet back and asked her to call the Lab and talk to the doctor in there. Guess what, that Dr said she doesn't need antibiotics and 48 count, in fact, is very good.

So HOW, HOW can we trust them? The Dr. told me "I am so sorry, I got confused...it says 30 or less is healthy...Lily was 48 so I wrote a perscription" 

I am so mad right now  >:( and happy at the same time because my girl is fine  ;D

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Offline schelmischekitty

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 12:13:16 am »
OMG!  i'm glad you checked on that!  i always thought if the vet was in doubt they'd look it up...  i'm glad your baby is healthy, though!
steffanie in atlanta

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Offline Pyr Heaven

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 02:29:27 am »
Oh boy! I'm glad Lily is ok!!!

I know what you mean about trusting your vet. How can you trust someone with your baby when they screwed up. Majorly.

For example, my past vet...with Miles being VERY sick, and not even noticing. Now, I can't trust any vet. Even my new vet. It's going to take awhile to earn my trust.

Ugh, and I hate when vets (or any doctor for that matter) prescribe additional medication when it is not needed!
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Offline seaherons

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 02:51:05 am »
Good for you for following up on the recommendation and thinking it through.  Critical thinking never hurts and questions need to be asked.  Our pups deserve it!!  Heaven knows that a Pyr would question them if they could!!! Hah, hah!

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 02:56:02 am »
I am really happy to hear that Lilly is doing much better, it also make me realize how lucky I am with my vet. She is one of the most incredible people I have ever met and she is incredibly smart, but never talks down to you. Good thinking on your part with asking the questions.

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 03:54:22 am »
I wish I could find an excellent Vet near by  :-[
We don't go to the vet very often and the only reason I stay with this office is because they have 24 hr emergency service which is the most important to me right now  :(
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
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Offline patrick

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 04:58:50 am »
That vet practice has 7 vets in it- most very young and not long out of vet school.  When I have a real problem I set the appointment ONLY with one of the two older vets- but for routine stuff like vaccines or travel certificates I go with whoever is available.  However Lymes can be very insidious and some vets and people doctors as well would treat longer than one month so I wouldn't have been bothered by more antibiotics.  I know of 3 dogs that have died in the past few years from Lymes and have a very healthy respect for this disease.  None of those dogs had much in the way of symptoms either until too much damage was done to help them.

Offline patrick

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 05:17:12 am »
International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, Bethesda, MD, USA. rstricker@usmamed.com

BACKGROUND: Controversy exists regarding the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease. Patients with persistent symptoms after standard (2-4-week) antibiotic therapy for this tickborne illness have been denied further antibiotic treatment as a result of the perception that long-term infection with the Lyme spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi, and associated tickborne pathogens is rare or nonexistent. METHODS: I review the pathophysiolog y of B. burgdorferi infection and the peer-reviewed literature on diagnostic Lyme disease testing, standard treatment results, and coinfection with tickborne agents, such as Babesia, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, and Bartonella species. I also examine uncontrolled and controlled trials of prolonged antibiotic therapy in patients with persistent symptoms of Lyme disease. RESULTS: The complex "stealth" pathology of B. burgdorferi allows the spirochete to invade diverse tissues, elude the immune response, and establish long-term infection. Commercial testing for Lyme disease is highly specific but relatively insensitive, especially during the later stages of disease. Numerous studies have documented the failure of standard antibiotic therapy in patients with Lyme disease. Previous uncontrolled trials and recent placebo-controlled trials suggest that prolonged antibiotic therapy (duration, >4 weeks) may be beneficial for patients with persistent Lyme disease symptoms. Tickborne coinfections may increase the severity and duration of infection with B. burgdorferi. CONCLUSIONS: Prolonged antibiotic therapy may be useful and justifiable in patients with persistent symptoms of Lyme disease and coinfection with tickborne agents.


Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 05:35:11 am »
They are talking about persistent symptoms of Lyme disease...Lily has none

I also forgot to mention that after Lymes showed up on the original SNAP test (which only shows whether the animal sick)  the Vet was suppose to do a C6 test to identify the amount of antibodies. That way we could compare the numbers after the treatment. Too late now  :(
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

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Offline London_Pyr_Lover

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 06:32:05 am »
Good for you for being diligent first of all.  Maybe you might want to try getting a second opinion from a different vet?  I know you said you're sticking with this one because of the 24 hour clinic they have, but a second opinion never hurt anybody, it can only help.
I understand your frustrations though.  I'm currently looking for a different vet, the one I took Naja and Moo to for they're second set of shots (first with us) just didn't seem to have the time or the patience to answer the questions I had for him. He didn't even give me a copy of or some kind of written thing on what vaccs he was giving her, even after I requested it.
So anyways.  Good luck, and I'm super happy Lily is feeling well.  ;)
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Offline jc1231

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2007, 04:07:37 pm »
Poor Lily. :( Glad to know she's feeling better.

We can totally relate to your vet frustrations.. we've been shopping for a new vet also.

Hang in there.
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Offline sc.trojans

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 01:16:09 am »
They are talking about persistent symptoms of Lyme disease...Lily has none


You hit the nail on the head.  I don't deal with Lyme, but my friends in the northeast who do always tell me that vets there do not treat a dog at all who shows no symptoms. Many dogs can test positive without showing symptoms and never develop the active disease.

Since I don't have any friends who use the traditional allopathic treatment however, I can't comment on the antibiotics. I have a good friend who's dog showed active Lyme signs and treated with homeopathy, like all of my other friends. Her dog was symptom free and tested clear in two weeks.

As for trusting vets - it depends on our expectations of them.  I applaud you for what you did, but also wish more people did what you do.  The fact is, too many of us listen to vets as absolute be all and follow everything they say without question, second opinion, or further research.  Just as you would do with yourself or your child, I believe these things are important because what it shows is that the vet is just one perspective - and a perspective with very limited education. We don't go to our general practioning HMO doctor when we have cancer for example - and the vet shouldn't be our one stop shop and expected to know everything and the kitchen sink.

When we recognize the limited skill set of regular, broad based vets, our expectations of them will change.  While you were valid in expecting your vet to know better in this case, the fact is so many don't and the ultimate accountability is on us - we're this animal's primary caretaker.  My relationship with my vets improved when I stopped expecting them to know anything beyond spay and neuter, ear cleanings, and matching symptoms with drugs. Vets are not even qualified in my view to read x-rays - I used radiologists and orthopedic surgeons for that.
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Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 02:30:20 am »
Well, I agree and disagree with you sc. trojans

I totally agree about the fact that vets can not know everything and that is why we should seek specialists

I too can NOT believe that so many people rely on Vets 100% without a doubt

Now, about Lymes...most of the dogs with no symptoms don't get diagnosed until it is quite late because SNAP test is only done ones every two years (per every vet practice). By then those 5-10% of dogs whose immunity system is not strong enough to fight the disease get really sick from liver and kidneys  damage. And dogs with no symptoms DO DIE from the disease.

The reason I don't think Lily needs another round of treatment is because I don't believe that she is at high risk because I do SNAP tests on her every six months despite    my vets suggestion (ones every two years) and the last one was negative. So, she couldn't be sick for a long time and the strongest antibiotic that they prescribed along with the longest time (30 days) should have taken care of the illness.

Nevertheless, I made an appointment with NEW holistic, very experienced vet in two week to get a second opinion  :-\

My dog means the world to me  :)   
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


Offline seaherons

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Re: Can you trust your vet??? VERY LONG
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 03:01:58 pm »
I have not posted much on this topic because it is one of those - Don't get me started" topics.  We are glad to learn that you located a holistic vet in your area for a consultation.  Let us know how it goes.  We are not in a populated area so do not have a lot of choices epsecially vet specialists.  Denise is a physical therapist with excellent skills and without her I just don't know what would have happened when Cirra had a partial ACL tear.  Her gut said don't do the TPLO surgery - she is still growing.  It is not the type of surgery that would be done on a growing child unless extreme circumstances.  Her co-workers response was - "the vets want to do what to Cirra, no way"  And then there was the vet who did not give us accurate or any information regarding the risks of spaying.  I think that the vets that we saw believed that they were giving the best advice however...We would like a vet that can think "outside of the box".  For us the ideal would be a practice that incorporates holistic practices in to "traditional" vet medicine.  I know that there are practices like that out there and hope that there will be more in the future. We have found a vet that is more like that about an hour away.  Any decision we make has pros and cons - food, vaccines, medications, etc.  We just want accurate information to make the best choices possible.