Ugh, I just wanna cry

[mama23+pyrs2]

In fact I am crying. I just heard from him, his xrays all look PERFECT, so I have a perfect dog that just happens to have a horrible limp for no reason. Isn't that nice? What the hel* do I do now? I'm SO over this! They can't do anything for us, nothing. They are feeding us the same lines that is a soft tissue injury and it needs extra time to heal OR it's something they just can't see. The Ortho vet examined him all over and could feel nothing abnormal and couldn't get him to react to any pain. Our options are to send the x-rays to a radiologist to be reviewed OR they will bundle them up and refer us to a specialist. I have no idea where there is one around here, so he is going to find out.. I don't even know when we could get into one.

I'm just sooooooo frustrated, I'm gonna go cry my eyes out. Obviously there is SOMETHING wrong with my dog!!!! I told him we'll take him somewhere else, maybe they are total morons and don't know what they are doing- how am I to know.

[RMSChloe]

aww, im so sorry. i can understand how frusterating this is! i hope you can find someone to help you!

[schelmischekitty]

here's a link about soft tissue trauma, it says you should see improvement in 3-5 days with medicine...  it also has a few names of medicine.  maybe if you read it you can bring some of these up to a vet and ask them?   

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/soft-tissue-trauma-in-dogs/page1.aspx

[GoldenPyrs]

Oh cr@p, that is soooooo frustrating, I can see why you are in tears!       Here's what I'd do....I'd ask for the x-rays when your hubby picks up Yukon.  Some vets don't like to give them to you.  We had one univ vet school say that we'd just paid to have the x-rays taken, but if we wanted to take them with us they'd charge us a lot more b/c they belonged to the vet school, we'd just paid for their time to take them, not for us to own them.  Nope, we weren't amused!  Anyway, if you can get the x-rays, take them!!!  Then I'd call your local Pyr Rescue coordinator and ask them who they use for ortho problems.  You know that they'll know who is & isn't good.  They deal with ortho problems with their own dogs as well as the rescue pups.  Then I'd send in or take in the x-rays to that vet.  It could save you a bunch of money.  Also, try to get the previous x-rays that were taken a month or so ago, so that the new vet can have a baseline from which to compare.  That could be a critical point for them.  I am so, so sorry that you guys are going through all of this.    ((Hugs)) to all of you, including the sweet boy himself.

[schelmischekitty]

this vet did a paper on all sorts of things that can cause limping in large / giant breeds and he put his e-mail for questions.  maybe you can ask for advice?

here's the link to the site (i pmed it to you too)
http://members.aol.com/RocknRob56/limping.html

and contact info:
Robin M. Smith, DVM
Westminster Veterinary Emergency/Trauma Center
269 W. Main St., Westminster, MD 21557
Work 410-848-3363
(Fax) 410-848-4959
E-mail: RocknRob56@aol.com

[mama23+pyrs2]

Yeah, I told him to get the x-rays. They did offer to give them to us to take to a specialist AND apparently they aren't going to charge us anything for today. I was just talking to my MIL and she was saying that he needs an MRI. If he has this OCD thing, and a piece of cartilage is loose in there, he would need an MRI to see that right? I'm just trying to think of what on earth this could be, causing him this much pain, getting worse, and not showing up in the x-ray.

I'm not surprised he didn't react to the pain, he's a Pyr..they probably know nothing about the breed. If it didn't hurt, he wouldn't be limping on it, geez.

Steffanie~ thanks I will read that link now
Marie~ thanks for the advice on what to do next

[mama23+pyrs2]

Oh man, that is so frustating.

If it is soft tissue, are they thinking it's a really nasty tear?  When I tore my ACL (yes, I know that's not the shoulder but just for an example), it hurt SO bad.  It continued to be sore and, frankly, not very "useable" for the entire month that I waited before my surgery.  

They won't say WHAT they think he injured so I have no clue! Would it get worse though, worse after a month of not doing anything?

[schelmischekitty]

on OCD the website has two things i wanted to share with you

Osteochondriti s dissecans (OCD) occurs most frequently in rapidly growing, male, large and giant breed dogs.

The diagnosis of OCD is confirmed by radiographs. There are certain locations of the various bones where these lesions are seen; therefore the veterinarian has to be familiar with the correct positioning of the dog to be sure to see the lesions. Once diagnosed, surgery can correct the problem or at least alleviate the pain involved.

i haven't had any experience with it though, maybe someone else could help more?  all i can go by is what i can research 

maybe it's getting worst b/c he's not using it as much...  kind of like when you pull a muscle and just lay there, it gets cramped up even worst than if you were to walk around?  who knows...

[bigdogs@5501]

Ok where is marymjm when we need her? Jane, do you have any suggestions? There is a website also called pyrnet. See if you can get on that and see if there is anyone on that site that can refer you to someone who specializes in Pyrs. Jane knows some great breeders who may also be able to point you in a particular direction. I am not even sure that my vet could help with this one since the xrays are not showing anything, however she also breeds Pyrs. I may have to talk to her about something else in the near future so I will ask, but I am thinking that you are going to have to get a MRI or a CT scan that is going to show the soft tissues not just the bone.

[People Whisperer]

Isn't it something? Sorry you have to deal with this 

I have never had to deal with canine ortho problems BUT I sure had plenty of sport injuries myself and what I learned is that X-ray never show anything. They are just a link to an MRI since insurance Co will not pay for it without x-raying first.

Anyways, I had a tendinitis (sp?) that was bothering me for 8 months. I had 3 sets of x-rays done and 2 MRI and only the last one showed something. And after all that the Dr. told me to let it heal itself...Just an example to make you feel better 

I know that MRI is very expensive but it seems it is the only way to go if you want to find out the extend of the injury

I feel your frustration and hope you will get this resolved

Kisses and hugs from us 

[mama23+pyrs2]

Well, he brought me the cd of his x-rays, the first ones and todays. He is telling me that he asked about the OCD and the Dr. said it's a possibility but that they could only find out through MRI or actually going in there and looking. The vet gave us a card with several orthopedic surgeons at this one practice and said they are the best around. He said if it is OCD, they have everything there to deal with it. This vets office doesn't have an MRI machine.

Oh, he hasn't gained an ounce in 2 weeks either.

Thanks for all the info you guys are giving me.

[schelmischekitty]

at least now you have SOMEWHERE to start looking...  and an idea of where to start 

[sc.trojans]

I am sorry for your frustration... I know this is tough and worrisome.  Are you doing all of this with regular vets?  If so, I believe that is the source of your frustration.  Regular vets are not schooled in or well equipped to diagnose chronic illness and orthopedic problems.  If you have not gone straight to an orthopedic specialist already, I would do so ASAP....in fact, I head straight there when a problem arises.....ski p a regular vet altogether and don't waste my money.

A specialist can do bone scans, ultrasounds, MRIs, gait evaluations, better qualified physical manipulation etc. If I had time to share every stupid, knucklehead, incorrect thing a regular vet said as diagnosis, I would be rich

[London_Pyr_Lover]

Hey.   
I'm so sorry for all of this stupid cr@ppy stuff you and poor Yukon are going through right now.  I have nothing to add and no advise to give.  I just really hope you guys can find someone who's competant and is able to figure out what's wrong with Yukon and get him treated. 
My thoughts are with you.
Hugs for you and Yukon.   

[marypyrs]

Ah GEEZE!!!!! Poor Yukon! Poor Kristina!!

Did they use ansethesia when they took the X-rays? I personally hesitate. Especially with Pyrs because of their super low metabolism. But sometimes it's necessary to get a good read. Othewise the pup will tense up and they can't get a correct diagnosis.

I am extreemly fortunate to have Roger Pitts as my Vet. He's one of the best ever in my mind. When Rain had a possible torn ACL Roger gave her a complete exam. Then he referred her to an excellent Orthopdic Specialist. They were extreemly careful with the anesthesia and gave only to effect. But were able to get what they needed to rule out a tear. The first thing we did before the X-ray, however, was to run a Lymes test. (Negative)

I do think that an MRI would possibly be advisable. That would have been my next step had Rainbow not responded to rest and Homeopathic Therapy. I even made an appointment with the U of M Vet School just in case.

I would suggest, as did Paige, that you sign up on Pyrnet. They're a fantastic group when it comes to our Pyr Bears. It's www.pyrnet.org to sign in. There's a wealth of knowledge in these people.

You may also want to contact Dianne Mingas @  bluepyrs@comcast.net She's one fantastic lady and works tirelessly on the GPCA Health Committee.

Here is another site that might give you some insite.
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/cruciates.html

Sending Hugs and Prayers that you can get to the bottom of this. Feel free to PM me anytime. And my email is listed. Take Care Kristina!  Kisses to Yukon. (& Sis Yiska too!)