Author Topic: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!  (Read 6716 times)

Offline Tazz

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OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« on: September 28, 2007, 12:02:22 pm »
I am so heartbroken. Yesterday afternoon my 2yo granddaughter was playing and tripped and fell, Dutchess, my 2yo pyr, was laying near where she landed and turned around and BIT her lil face. Blood and a badly swollen face:(

I understand Dutch did this because she was startled, but now I just do not trust her so she has to go. I have placed ads (to be honest, my first thoughts were to have her put down asap)and will specify no children to any new owners. I am also going to make them sign a release stating they know she has bitten a child and take full responsibility for anything that may happen once they take her.

This is just breaking my heart...I have had Dutch since the night before my granddaughter was born. She and her littermates were found in a barn....I bottlefed them for a few weeks until they got old enough to go to a new home. Dutch was the runt of the litter and I just fell in love with her.

I know I am not the only one who has had to make this choice before....am I doing the right thing by rehoming with full disclosure? Should I just put her down? I am just so confused and upset!! Keeping her is not an option as she would have to be crated way to many hours when the granddaughter is here (I babysit). I just feel crating that many hours will break her spirit and to me that is way worse than death.

Please somebody tell me I am moving in the right direction.

Offline Tiny

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 12:39:35 pm »
This is Jen - I've never been in this postition before but truly feel for you.  But, if you really feel you can no longer trust her and feel she must leave, please find a rescue group for her breed, especially one that does "re-homing" for pets.  They specialize in screening potential owners, something you really can't do, and finding the perfect match that Dutch deserves. 

Please don't even consider having her put down.  Dutch simply reacted, as you've said....she didn't bite because your granddaughter was a child - she snapped and made contact because she was startled (at least his is how it sounds to me). 

Your grandbaby, of course, has to take priority over Dutch, and if you feel you can't trust her, its right to find her a new forever home.  If you let me know where you are located, I'll do everything I can to help you find a way to get her placed.  There are many options that give you the peace of mind you need and Dutch the home she deserves too.  Let me help you find them, ok?

Jen



A member of the housekeeping staff for
Ty, the English Mastiff (AKA The Muscle Behind The Mouth)
Kami, the Shih Tzu (AKA The Mouth)
and the Cat Crew
(Dominic, Max, Mia, BeeBee, Blue, Snugs and Sassy)

Offline Tiny

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 12:51:53 pm »
Tazz,

I also just noticed that earlier this month you were considering adopting 2 OEM pups.  I want to say something on that and hope it isn't taken the wrong way.  Please, as long as you are lucky enough to have your granddaughter with you so much, don't get more dogs.  It is right that the granddaughter is the priority, but dogs have teeth and therefore can bite.  There is no way to be positive something like this wouldn't happen again.  And then you and the dogs have this same horrible situation.
A member of the housekeeping staff for
Ty, the English Mastiff (AKA The Muscle Behind The Mouth)
Kami, the Shih Tzu (AKA The Mouth)
and the Cat Crew
(Dominic, Max, Mia, BeeBee, Blue, Snugs and Sassy)

bigdogs@5501

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 12:53:34 pm »
I agree I dont think that it is necessary that she be put down, she reacted, she did not attack. Children often startle dogs and dogs react, not out of aggression but usually out of fear.
 I think that if you contact a breed rescue, then you need to explain it to the rescue in those terms, not that she has a history of biting children. A lot of rescues are very thorough in researching homes and take the fact that a family may have small children into their placement criteria.
If you take her to a city shelter or pound, then it will be her death sentence any way, but will surely sign her death warrant once they have been told she has bitten a child.
I am sorry that your grandchild was bit. Children do have a priority over dogs, however the dog should have also been protected against the child. Now it is the dog that will lose the only home that it has ever known and not understand why.
 Crating for many hours a day is not an option for a Pyrenees either. The best solution for Dutch at this time is to find her a loving home that she will be able to live in the rest of her life.


bigdogs@5501

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 12:57:48 pm »
Oh I totally agree, you really need to rethink any addtional dogs with the grandchild. Obviously the child is the priority and so it is not fair to any dog to be in that situation. I just see this so many times, I am not trying to be rude,but its always the dogs fault. Maybe no other dogs may be a good idea and if I could take Dutch I would, I am just not in the position to take in any other dogs right now. I hope that the grandchild recovers quickly.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 01:01:51 pm »
Tazz,

I also just noticed that earlier this month you were considering adopting 2 OEM pups.  I want to say something on that and hope it isn't taken the wrong way.  Please, as long as you are lucky enough to have your granddaughter with you so much, don't get more dogs.  It is right that the granddaughter is the priority, but dogs have teeth and therefore can bite.  There is no way to be positive something like this wouldn't happen again.  And then you and the dogs have this same horrible situation.

In answer to your first post,I have contacted rescues and am waiting on replys. I looked some up at petfinder.com and also googled some for this area.

At the time I was looking to take in the OEMS, my grands were not here so much. But I agree with you on not getting any more dogs at this time. Thank you.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2007, 01:07:45 pm »
I agree I dont think that it is necessary that she be put down, she reacted, she did not attack. Children often startle dogs and dogs react, not out of aggression but usually out of fear.
 I think that if you contact a breed rescue, then you need to explain it to the rescue in those terms, not that she has a history of biting children. A lot of rescues are very thorough in researching homes and take the fact that a family may have small children into their placement criteria.
If you take her to a city shelter or pound, then it will be her death sentence any way, but will surely sign her death warrant once they have been told she has bitten a child.
I am sorry that your grandchild was bit. Children do have a priority over dogs, however the dog should have also been protected against the child. Now it is the dog that will lose the only home that it has ever known and not understand why.
 Crating for many hours a day is not an option for a Pyrenees either. The best solution for Dutch at this time is to find her a loving home that she will be able to live in the rest of her life.



ITA! I do not want to crate her nor do I want to take her to the pound. I also agree she bit out of being startled.

I feel horrid that I even thought of putting her down, but that was my very first reaction. After having the night to think it over I decided to try and rehome her. She is not a "bad" dog nor is she vicious. The problem is me. I simply can not trust her to not get startled again.

I am very emotional right now so this is all probably not coming out right. I love Dutchess and I love my granddaughter.

I do appreciate the responses and I do not feel as though anybody is being "rude", just honest.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2007, 01:20:07 pm »
Oh I totally agree, you really need to rethink any addtional dogs with the grandchild. Obviously the child is the priority and so it is not fair to any dog to be in that situation. I just see this so many times, I am not trying to be rude,but its always the dogs fault. Maybe no other dogs may be a good idea and if I could take Dutch I would, I am just not in the position to take in any other dogs right now. I hope that the grandchild recovers quickly.


I do not feel that Dutch is at fault. Nor is my granddaughter. I am the only one at fault as I let them both down. And to be very honest, I feel like the worlds worst grandmother and pet mommy today because of it.

I'm not looking for somebody to take her from here, but thank you. I just needed a safe place to vent and knew that somebody on here would know how torn I am from this.

Offline VdogLover

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2007, 01:46:50 pm »
I feel for you :(. This is never an easy discussion when it comes to our dogs.

I respect you for being honest to possible new owners. Many people lie only to have the dog do greater damage to a child down the road. Since there is no "child free" world  make sure the new owners understand that they will need to manage this for her lifetime.

As far as her not meaning to bite...
Most dog aggression experts feel there is no such thing as a "mistaken" bite by a healthy/normal dog. While she may have been startled and that is what got her to the biting point she still would have had the ability to not bite and certainly not bite hard enough to draw blood.

Good luck and I hope your Grandchild is ok :)

Offline Edwpang

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2007, 04:57:50 pm »
I fully understand how you feel now, as half a year ago, my 9 year old daughter was bitten on the face by my previous dog, a lab mix, named Butter. It was a real mess afterward. At the time we understood little about dogs, and I didn't know BPO yet... We know no other way but turn him to animal control. At first, we didn't even know he was going to be put down by default, and the officer said they'll find dog rescue if possible. But after several days, we called the pound, they said they were going to put him down. My wife cried and asked to help save our dog, so he referred my wife to his manager, a very nice lady. She agreed to find dog rescuer.  Eventually, she found a rescuer, another nice lady near Hamilton, Ontario. She helped find a childless family for the dog, and gave us a lovely 12-week old Goldendoodle, we name him Butter II after him. To understand more about dogs, I researched and found BPO...
Luckily, my daughter recovered quite good, leaving 2 little light marks near the right eye.  Butter II is very friendly to human and other dog. I watch closely when my daughter interact with him.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2007, 08:26:30 pm »
I feel for you :(. This is never an easy discussion when it comes to our dogs.

I respect you for being honest to possible new owners. Many people lie only to have the dog do greater damage to a child down the road. Since there is no "child free" world  make sure the new owners understand that they will need to manage this for her lifetime.

As far as her not meaning to bite...
Most dog aggression experts feel there is no such thing as a "mistaken" bite by a healthy/normal dog. While she may have been startled and that is what got her to the biting point she still would have had the ability to not bite and certainly not bite hard enough to draw blood.

Good luck and I hope your Grandchild is ok :)

Thanks. Alannah came in today and wanted to go hug Dutchess (which we allowed) and Dutch was very happy to see her as well.

I am confused by this part "As far as her not meaning to bite...
Most dog aggression experts feel there is no such thing as a "mistaken" bite by a healthy/normal dog."

Does this mean they feel every dog that bites is being aggressive? In all honesty, until yesterday afternoon, I would have bet my house that Dutchess would never have bitten a child, especially one she was raised along side of. She has never ever shown any signs of aggression toward the kids. No growling, no food aggression, lets the kids hug her, pet her...ect.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2007, 08:29:16 pm »
I fully understand how you feel now, as half a year ago, my 9 year old daughter was bitten on the face by my previous dog, a lab mix, named Butter. It was a real mess afterward. At the time we understood little about dogs, and I didn't know BPO yet... We know no other way but turn him to animal control. At first, we didn't even know he was going to be put down by default, and the officer said they'll find dog rescue if possible. But after several days, we called the pound, they said they were going to put him down. My wife cried and asked to help save our dog, so he referred my wife to his manager, a very nice lady. She agreed to find dog rescuer.  Eventually, she found a rescuer, another nice lady near Hamilton, Ontario. She helped find a childless family for the dog, and gave us a lovely 12-week old Goldendoodle, we name him Butter II after him. To understand more about dogs, I researched and found BPO...
Luckily, my daughter recovered quite good, leaving 2 little light marks near the right eye.  Butter II is very friendly to human and other dog. I watch closely when my daughter interact with him.

Thank you for telling me this story. I will do anything to prevent her going to the shelter. She may have to spend a few days in the laundry room while the baby is here, but with luck I can find her a good new home.

Offline Gracie Belle

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2007, 05:13:10 pm »
Taz,
My name is Misty and I have my best friends wonderful Great Dane Dog named Tonka.  The reason I have him is because a similar situation happened at his original house.  My friend Stacey has two children, one 6 and the other 2.  Her 2 year old Sam was with Tonka and for whatever reason (it was undetermined) Tonka bit Sam.  Stacey was at a loss and considered every possibility as you have.  Here we are a month later, Sam is perfectly fine (THANK THE LORD) and Tonka is here with me and my boyfriend (we have no children) and he is doing very well. I think the problem is that we rely too much on our pets to only do the right thing and tend to forget that they are animals.  Unfortunately animals disciple an unwanted behavior with their mouths.  In my opinion you should NOT consider yourself a bad grandmother or pet owner as it's obvious how upset you are.  If anything I appreciate you being honest with yourself everyone in stating you just don't think you can trust her.  To me, that is extremely responsible.  I think that would be a horrible life for Dutchess to live in a home where she cant be trusted and you can't take on that anxiety.  Its just no way for anyone to live.  I just want you to know that I really do feel awful for you all and will keep you, your grand daughter and sweet Dutchess in my thoughts and prayers.  But again, I want you to know that I admire you for doing what you think is best for everyone.  Please keep us posted on everything.
Misty 
Misty slave to:
Gracie Belle, 2 year English Mastiff
Rosco, 1 yr Toy German Shettweiler (designer mutt of course)and toy cause he's not Rotti or GSD size AT ALL.  Though they said he was a mix of the two..  Tonka, 3 year Great Dane
And last and most certainly NOT least, Linus 5 year old cat.

Offline Tazz

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2007, 07:41:39 pm »
Misty~

Thank you, your post brought tears to my eyes (again). I haven't cried this much since I lost my mom.

I do have emails out to the rescues I found at petfinder and am hoping that since it is a weekend they are just slow getting back to me. One did respond from about an hour away so if need be I can take her there next weekend. The hours make it impossible for me to do it during the week. My granddaughter is doing well, the bite seems to be healing ok. She has totally forgiven Dutchess, came in yesterday and wanted to give "Utchy" a hug. They were raised together so this just does not surprise me. I was almost relieved she had no fear of her. I grew up with an unhealthy fear of dogs and do not want the same for my kids/grands.

So for this week while I search for a new home/check references and what not, Dutch will either be outside in the fence or in the laundry room with the gate up while the baby is here. Not the best for Dutchess, but better than putting her down without a second chance.

Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate everything you have all added.

Offline VdogLover

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Re: OMG She BIT my granddaughter!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2007, 09:15:21 pm »
I am confused by this part "As far as her not meaning to bite...
Most dog aggression experts feel there is no such thing as a "mistaken" bite by a healthy/normal dog."

Does this mean they feel every dog that bites is being aggressive? In all honesty, until yesterday afternoon, I would have bet my house that Dutchess would never have bitten a child, especially one she was raised along side of. She has never ever shown any signs of aggression toward the kids. No growling, no food aggression, lets the kids hug her, pet her...ect.

They state that if a dog made contact they meant to.  What we humans may call "aggression" is not seen that way by our dogs. Biting is a normal communication device in their world. To me a dog who bites and draws blood on a child, who startled but did not harm them, has a low stress level tolerance...no t an aggressive dog but a dog who I would not have around children.

Below is from works by Ian Dunbar. Please read level 1 carefully. You will see that he states there is never mistaken contact.
 
Classification s of Bites
Well-known veterinarian, dog trainer, and behaviorist Ian Dunbar has developed a six-level system of classifying bites, in order to make discussions of biting behavior more
consistent and understandable . Those levels are:

Level 1 Bite – Harassment but no skin contact. This is the
so-called snap. Don’t kid yourself. A snap is an intended
“air bite” from a dog who did not intend to connect. He
didn’t just “miss.”
It is a lovely warning signal, telling us that
we need to identify his stressors and either desensitize
him or manage his behavior to avoid exposing him to the
things that cause him undue stress.

Level 2 Bite – Tooth contact on skin but no puncture. Again,
this is a bite from a dog who didn’t intend to break skin,
and a warning that this dog is serious. It’s a very good idea
to remove the dog’s stressors at this point, before he graduates
to the next level.

Level 3 Bite – Skin punctures, one to four holes from a
single bite (all punctures shallower than the length of the
canine tooth).

Level 4 Bite – One to four holes, deep black bruising with
punctures deeper than the length of the canine (which means
the dog bit and clamped down) or slashes in both directions
from the puncture (the dog bit and shook his head).

Level 5 Bite – Multiple-bite attack with deep punctures,
or multiple attack incident.

Level 6 Bite – Killed victim and/or consumed flesh.